BODY RIGIDITY DETERIORATES WAY TOO FAST

[srefre]

Just an update, hit a little 700 miles with my GT500, and got this message. I use a wheel, but I actually found my lap times getting better, and the car to me felt good, no poor performance, and no unusual vibrations through the wheel. Although I will admit the quicker times could be more due to me getting miles under my belt.

 

[stb155]

Did it all again, this time with wheel.
(Sim,st.help off,FF8,act.steer. off, stability off, skid recof off, abs1, tc4 on LMP all other off)

Did the World-GT again with my 1600km V12 LMR, no handling problems at all.

After it made a backup, did the rigidity repair an drive last race again.
Really not certain if it felt anything differnt, maybe the FF effects are a little bit more "clear" to feel.

Went back to the backup an did again without repair, again not sure if there is a difference.
Sure there is no difference in how the car behaves, if at al there are some small effects in the FF.

Next i did free run with my 830km (100% stock, SH) MP4-12C at Bathurst.
Did a few laps to get used to it again, then made the repair and did some more laps.
Again i only had the slight feeling that the FF effects from weigt transfer and the "steering self center" are better.
(That car is so nice to drive with wheel , 2:15'8 after ~10 laps)

Next i did the GT3 @NürGP with my 1200km Z4 a few times before and after the repair.
With this car i could feel no difference at all.

So again i dont understand how people can complain about "undriveable" cars after 500km.
If at all, there is only a small difference in the Force Feedback you get from the car.

DS3 vs Wheel:
Wheel is much more easy to drive !

Laptimes from the World-GT with wheel:
Bath. 1:53,6
Laguna 1:17,1
Spa 2:03,3
Silv. 1:49,6
24h 7:45 (messed up 1st corner and once in the wall)

See the improvement on all tracks with high speed corners ?

They are so much more fun with wheel, Ou Rouge, the last right kink over the crest downhill Bathurst, the left/right uphill after the Omega on NürGP ?
All "high risk" with the DS3 if you push, with wheel you get them right almost every time.

Power out of corners with juuust a little oversteer without actually spinning/drifting ?
Very hard with the DS3/easy with wheel+pedals.

Correcting oversteer ? On the wheel you just relax your grip on the wheel and lift off throttle a bit, car almost corrects itself.
With DS3 you often end up with ovecorrecting, going left/right 5 times or spinning if you just center the stick.

Biggest difference is braking, i cant drive some cars with DS3 because they snap oversteer on braking (FXX, C60).
With wheel this is no problem, you feel the weight shift and countersteer a little, even helps you a lot to get understeering cars to turn in.
The MP4-12C or FXX are a dream to drive with wheel, with DS3 they are understeer in/oversteer out.
(MP4 is ok, but FXX is just a nightmare with DS3)

Only but big disadvantage are fast corrections.
If you get hit back/side corner by AI, get one back wheel in grass under braking, snap power oversteer in a corner over a bump you (or me at least) are done with the wheel.
With DS3 i catch 70% of those because i can go full opposite lock in 0,1sec. with the wheel i have spun befor i start to turn.

Edit:
I gonna put the part about wheel and DS3 int the other thread too, please respond there on that topic.

 

[OdeFinn]

@stb155 could you try without TC and ABS.
Rest my case.

 

[stb155]

I did only drive the V12 LMR with TC4, all others have TC0 (FXX, Z4, MP4-12C)

I can try without ABS, but never before tried that in GT4, so i will be a lot slower i guess.

 

[HuskyGT]

Me too. I did see a post or article stating 02 January 2014 but cannot remember the source.

I just checked the in-game news and the special Seasonal Events should appear on the first of January.

 

[stb155]

@stb155 could you try without TC and ABS.

Thank You !

Great advice, i just had a few really exciting and challenging races.

BMW V12 LMR @ Bathurst (1st GT-World race) TC0 ABS0
Edit: 1750km/1080miles now

With ABS&TC it is just boring, you outbreak 3 opponents each corner, are 1st mid 2nd lap and never see them again in the mirror.
Without aids it is a bit different, not so easy to overtake and very easy to make a mistake, at least 1 opponent was always in striking distance behind.

On topic:
I did the race a few times to get used to it (best 1:54,8)
Then made the repair and did it 2more times.
Again I can't say that it felt much different. (best 1:53,6)

Did go back to a savegame before the repair and did another 2 runs.
Still felt pretty much the same.
Had a almost perfect race, no sign of anything feeling wrong.(Best 1:52,9)

Average I do 1:55 i would say, hard to get a 100% perfect lap without aids.

So for me this is settled, there is no real body deterioration effect.
MAYBE it has some tiny effects on the force feedback the car is giving, but that is never ever worth that amount of Cr. the repair costs.

 

[ebadevil]

As mentioned before, collisions with cars and barriers during races do not have an effect on chassis wear.

Yup, raced my Merc VGT around SSX non-stop for a while... no major collisions, maybe a very minor scrape here and there but no actual collisions, never hit another car or the wall hard at all... car became not only undrivable in the corners, but also started losing significant power on the straightaways... I think it was more or less fine up to about 375... not perfect, but drivable... became essentially a complete disaster after 400-425 miles...

then I realized I can get better SSX times with the GTR Black for less than 1/10 of the repair cost... so I repaired my Merc... it'll now likely sit in the garage lol

all in all... it seems incredibly expensive to repair the cars... I would be ok with cars themselves costing more if their repairs were cheaper... I don't see why you can't increase car prices by something like 25% but decrease repairs to maybe like 150k?

 

[stb155]

Yup, raced my Merc VGT around SSX non-stop for a while... no major collisions, maybe a very minor scrape here and there but no actual collisions, never hit another car or the wall hard at all... car became not only undrivable in the corners, but also started losing significant power on the straightaways... I think it was more or less fine up to about 375... not perfect, but drivable... became essentially a complete disaster after 400-425 miles...

SSX is the huuuge high speed oval ?

U driving with wheel ?

losing significant power on the straightaways.

New oil ?
How much is significant ?
I think mine went down from 510 max. to 504 or something. (New oil 510 again)

 

[Bluntified]

Before reading this thread, I did some testing on my own.

I noticed the feedback on my wheel to be weird, very jagged and sharp feeling. I though it was something in my tuning but realized I hadn't changed anything in a few days. I started to do laps at brands hatch (short), 20 laps to be exact, without any aides. I ran all 47s almost even, was looking for consistency. I did a restore and did 20 more laps, everything set up the same and had the same numbers BUT the steering felt way smoother.

All in all, I'm not sure if it really doesn't anything to performance but rather the feel. It could very well be all in our head that it's affecting performance due to the awkward feel that we're not use to.

Just my two cents.

 

[stb155]

Before reading this thread, I did some testing on my own.

I noticed the feedback on my wheel to be weird, very jagged and sharp feeling. I though it was something in my tuning but realized I hadn't changed anything in a few days. I started to do laps at brands hatch (short), 20 laps to be exact, without any aides. I ran all 47s almost even, was looking for consistency. I did a restore and did 20 more laps, everything set up the same and had the same numbers BUT the steering felt way smoother.

All in all, I'm not sure if it really doesn't anything to performance but rather the feel. It could very well be all in our head that it's affecting performance due to the awkward feel that we're not use to.

Just my two cents.

I agree.

No difference in performance/handling, only the feedback gets a little bit "rough"
But far from making it uncontrollable on straights or on braking.

I guess how "bad" the FF gets depends also on the wheel and setting you use.

I use a Fanatec GT3 RS/factory settings, FF8 in game.

 

[Swagger897]

Did it all again, this time with wheel.
(Sim,st.help off,FF8,act.steer. off, stability off, skid recof off, abs1, tc4 on LMP all other off)

Did the World-GT again with my 1600km V12 LMR, no handling problems at all.

After it made a backup, did the rigidity repair an drive last race again.
Really not certain if it felt anything differnt, maybe the FF effects are a little bit more "clear" to feel.

Went back to the backup an did again without repair, again not sure if there is a difference.
Sure there is no difference in how the car behaves, if at al there are some small effects in the FF.

Next i did free run with my 830km (100% stock, SH) MP4-12C at Bathurst.
Did a few laps to get used to it again, then made the repair and did some more laps.
Again i only had the slight feeling that the FF effects from weigt transfer and the "steering self center" are better.
(That car is so nice to drive with wheel , 2:15'8 after ~10 laps)

Next i did the GT3 @NürGP with my 1200km Z4 a few times before and after the repair.
With this car i could feel no difference at all.

So again i dont understand how people can complain about "undriveable" cars after 500km.
If at all, there is only a small difference in the Force Feedback you get from the car.

DS3 vs Wheel:
Wheel is much more easy to drive !

Laptimes from the World-GT with wheel:
Bath. 1:53,6
Laguna 1:17,1
Spa 2:03,3
Silv. 1:49,6
24h 7:45 (messed up 1st corner and once in the wall)

See the improvement on all tracks with high speed corners ?

They are so much more fun with wheel, Ou Rouge, the last right kink over the crest downhill Bathurst, the left/right uphill after the Omega on NürGP ?
All "high risk" with the DS3 if you push, with wheel you get them right almost every time.

Power out of corners with juuust a little oversteer without actually spinning/drifting ?
Very hard with the DS3/easy with wheel+pedals.

Correcting oversteer ? On the wheel you just relax your grip on the wheel and lift off throttle a bit, car almost corrects itself.
With DS3 you often end up with ovecorrecting, going left/right 5 times or spinning if you just center the stick.

Biggest difference is braking, i cant drive some cars with DS3 because they snap oversteer on braking (FXX, C60).
With wheel this is no problem, you feel the weight shift and countersteer a little, even helps you a lot to get understeering cars to turn in.
The MP4-12C or FXX are a dream to drive with wheel, with DS3 they are understeer in/oversteer out.
(MP4 is ok, but FXX is just a nightmare with DS3)

Only but big disadvantage are fast corrections.
If you get hit back/side corner by AI, get one back wheel in grass under braking, snap power oversteer in a corner over a bump you (or me at least) are done with the wheel.
With DS3 i catch 70% of those because i can go full opposite lock in 0,1sec. with the wheel i have spun befor i start to turn.

Edit:
I gonna put the part about wheel and DS3 int the other thread too, please respond there on that topic.

I hate to nit pick, but a lot of us are noticing the issue more within the LMP cars. However, previous posts suggest that the V12 LMR is "immune" to this scenario. Others who are using the R18, Speed 8, and on my case the 908 HDi FAP notice the effects much more by lap times increasing. I havent been able to test it out for the Speed 8 and the R18, as I dont have enough credits to do a repair, which I will test out when the next high paying seasonal comes out.

 

[stb155]

I hate to nit pick, but a lot of us are noticing the issue more within the LMP cars. However, previous posts suggest that the V12 LMR is "immune" to this scenario. Others who are using the R18, Speed 8, and on my case the 908 HDi FAP notice the effects much more by lap times increasing. I havent been able to test it out for the Speed 8 and the R18, as I dont have enough credits to do a repair, which I will test out when the next high paying seasonal comes out.

Possible, i took the V12 LMR because it had the best handling for me.
(Tested C60, R10, Speed 8, V12 LMR)

Maybe cars that have a "nice" handling in the beginning are less effected than cars with already "difficult" handling.
(The Speed 8 however was 2nd in my ranking, only the C60 was really bad. But i only tested them 15min on 2 track with DS3)

Maybe i'll test the Speed 8 tomorrow, good thing from all this testing is i have saved up 14mil.

 

[Bluntified]

I figure you'd notice something on LMP cars or the sort, mainlydue to the sharpness of the steering.

I run FFB on 5.

 

[OdeFinn]

This is going on same lines as on IRL some people notices if TOE is wrong on car(suspension broken, or twisted, car pulling and understeering), some not. (sharpness..)

 

[stb155]

Can someone with a real bad behaving LMP check/compare the suspension setting ?
V12 LMR has:
900kg 49/51
80/80
16,53/18,37
4/4
4/4
3/3
0,5/0,5
0,00/0,20
(Downforce 470/680)

Sounds pretty standard to me but maybe the others are different.

Or have you changed the standard settings of yours ?
Tried to go back to standard values ?

 

[superstreet556]

Over 700 miles later and my Civic still has no rigidity issues. 👍

I guess the more expensive the car is, the more maintenance you need to do to it.

 

[stb155]

Yup, raced my Merc VGT around SSX non-stop for a while... no major collisions, maybe a very minor scrape here and there but no actual collisions, never hit another car or the wall hard at all... car became not only undrivable in the corners, but also started losing significant power on the straightaways... I think it was more or less fine up to about 375... not perfect, but drivable... became essentially a complete disaster after 400-425 miles...

then I realized I can get better SSX times with the GTR Black for less than 1/10 of the repair cost... so I repaired my Merc... it'll now likely sit in the garage lol

all in all... it seems incredibly expensive to repair the cars... I would be ok with cars themselves costing more if their repairs were cheaper... I don't see why you can't increase car prices by something like 25% but decrease repairs to maybe like 150k?

Your setup must be crap !

My AMG has 1200km on it, can do the SSX in 3:54 whole day long.
Steering is perfect, on the straights i can let go of the wheel, curves with 2 fingers.

Slipstream uphill to ~490kph, downhill 480, NX in the 1st curve to stay at 480, back straight 477, 2nd curve NX again to 480, to the finish in 3:54 and collect 140k.

821kW/1139kg
Spring 15/15
Damper all 5
Stab. 7/3
Camber/toe all 0
Gearbox ~6500rpm@480kph
NX25%
(Not sure about all values but this car/track combo is really not sensitve)

 

[Magic Ayrton]

As a long time GT player, I've put up with Kaz' various eccentricities throughout the years (and I even liked some of them), but engine/chassis restoration is something I could never understand. It just adds nothing to the fun factor. Just oil change and car wash is enough for the maintenance aspect. The reason why we play games is because it simulates the best aspects of reality without the limitations of real life. I really hope they patch this, increase the distance driven before needing restore, lower the price considerably and increase seasonal payouts. Otherwise what's the point of a driving game where you're scared to drive your cars?

Yes, I agree, and why not further improve oil change, car wash and damage, to the point of it being realistic too.. it needs to evolve.. maybe even have a rolling road. Rigidity should be carried out once as well as a roll cage modification to further strengthen the bodyshell.

 

[Swagger897]

Yes, I agree, and why not further improve oil change, car wash and damage, to the point of it being realistic too.. it needs to evolve.. maybe even have a rolling road. Rigidity should be carried out once as well as a roll cage modification to further strengthen the bodyshell.

That is a great idea. It has also come to me that "improve body rigidity" is the old chassis reinforcement that used to be in the Gran Turismo 5 tuning menu (or so I think). But my question is (as I haven't tried it) can this be done multiple times? And if it can, then most likely the improvement is just a waste as time, as the previous installment made the tune permanent..

 

[Magic Ayrton]

That is a great idea. It has also come to me that "improve body rigidity" is the old chassis reinforcement that used to be in the Gran Turismo 5 tuning menu (or so I think). But my question is (as I haven't tried it) can this be done multiple times? And if it can, then most likely the improvement is just a waste as time, as the previous installment made the tune permanent..

Yes, it does kind of smell gimmicky, why can't damage stay on until we repair either?.. damage happens on the track.

 

[Swagger897]

Yes, it does kind of smell gimmicky, why can't damage stay on until we repair either?.. damage happens on the track.

That I wondered as well when I read how the GT garage works, saying damage will always stay, but I never see it and how exactly do we repair damage and repair chassis at different times? Car wash surely ain't gonna change damage..

 

[Magic Ayrton]

That I wondered as well when I read how the GT garage works, saying damage will always stay, but I never see it and how exactly do we repair damage and repair chassis at different times? Car wash surely ain't gonna change damage..

It is all a bit wonky!

 

[Ix-M0NTANA-xI]

hate rebuilding my chassis every 350 miles in my audi R8 LMS team oreca. i drive with zero aids abs 1 and yes i notice a difference. PD fix this 500,000 cr is way too expensive and i cant afford to drive the car as often as i would like.

 

[Sier_Pinski]

That's an interesting find that I hope is true. Cars accumulated permanent wear in arcade mode in GT5, so this here may be some good news.

Just got GT6 and can confirm that cars do not accumulate miles in arcade mode (including time trials, single races, and splitscreen races). This will be useful for driving long distances for tuning tests and arcade mode races.

 

[stb155]

No tire/fuel/damage simulation in arcade, what do you want to test in long runs there ?

hate rebuilding my chassis every 350 miles in my audi R8 LMS team oreca. i drive with zero aids abs 1 and yes i notice a difference. PD fix this 500,000 cr is way too expensive and i cant afford to drive the car as often as i would like.

Not just you, but you are the latest example.

I wish people could give more information on WHAT is different after 350miles, just saying you can feel feel it or the car becomes "undriveable" is not much information.

Also do you drive wheel or DS3, stock setup for suspension or not, tuning or not, undriveable everywhere or not (online/career/free run/arcade) ?

Edit:
Seems a little as everyone who does really test it (same race before/after repair) comes to the conclusion that there is no huge difference, but every day someone pops in and complains about "undriveable car" and expensive repair. But if you ask them something you never get a reply.

 

[Praetorr]

I've got a Bentley Speed 8 with ~400 miles. No noticeable difference in handling.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Let say like this, no FFB force twisting wheel during acceleration, 100% straight driving when not touching stick, game assist enabled for skidding, PLUS non user changeable assists what jumps in when using DS3, car handling physics are made simpler for DS3 - to make game more easily enjoyable for DS3 users and novices.

DS3 is "all aids disabled" pretty much same as Wheel with TC5, ASM, SRF on plus ABS1.

So your review is just thread filler without real information for wheel users, just proven how much game helps novice drivers who are using DS3 controllers. Hoping at PD makes option to Online Rooms where you can force drivers to use wheel, or disabling access to race if no wheel used.

Try to drive Diablo GT - 600HP oil change, stock except for racing brakes, comfort medium, no brake assist, no tc, no asm, no srf, grip real using a stick - it's no picnic - I did low 1:40s warm up lap at Brands Hatch GP ( stick )

Physics is the same regardless input, stick controller have steering buffer to help translate the analog stick movement to full range car steering - limiting turning angle according to speed, which is why wheel user if not smooth can over turn the wheel and loses front tire grip, and thats about it. The brakes, the throttle, the car's behavior, the tire's grip, they are the same. The stick has so many shortcoming compared to the wheel. Disable wheel's FFB, and you have something similar to the stick - disadvantaged because of less feedback. Feedback are not assist.

 

[OdeFinn]

Try to drive Diablo GT - 600HP oil change, stock except for racing brakes, comfort medium, no brake assist, no tc, no asm, no srf, grip real using a stick - it's no picnic - I did low 1:40s warm up lap at Brands Hatch GP ( stick )

Lol, when had small moment from daughter went and tried a lap, was wondering how fast you were when 1:40 was gone, thought at maybe time was wrong, drove a lap, recorded it and now here.. Wrong track, I tested on Bathurst same car, oil change 600hp, full stock, default brakes, "standard" on 5/5 bias was only difference on car.
All aids off, and still forget that "gear adviser", it's meaningless for me and that why it's still there.
Try to lap that Brands Hatch GP later, there's the lap from Bathurst instead at this time.

Just noticed at this s again going totally OT..

 

[Ix-M0NTANA-xI]

No tire/fuel/damage simulation in arcade, what do you want to test in long runs there ?


Not just you, but you are the latest example.

I wish people could give more information on WHAT is different after 350miles, just saying you can feel feel it or the car becomes "undriveable" is not much information.

Also do you drive wheel or DS3, stock setup for suspension or not, tuning or not, undriveable everywhere or not (online/career/free run/arcade) ?

Edit:
Seems a little as everyone who does really test it (same race before/after repair) comes to the conclusion that there is no huge difference, but every day someone pops in and complains about "undriveable car" and expensive repair. But if you ask them something you never get a reply.

i use a controller. I only play online. I tune my R8 LMS as it sucks if you dont tune it. I run it at 600pp. The car becomes difficult to drive. kind of like how it is stock. As soon as i notice a difference i go check if rigidity has deteriorated and repair it if i need to.

Its ridiculous to have to spend 500k on repairs after 300-400 miles. How much do you think you can earn after 400 miles? Not anywhere near the 500k it costs to repair.

 

[sumbrownkid]

No tire/fuel/damage simulation in arcade, what do you want to test in long runs there ?


Not just you, but you are the latest example.

I wish people could give more information on WHAT is different after 350miles, just saying you can feel feel it or the car becomes "undriveable" is not much information.

Also do you drive wheel or DS3, stock setup for suspension or not, tuning or not, undriveable everywhere or not (online/career/free run/arcade) ?

Edit:
Seems a little as everyone who does really test it (same race before/after repair) comes to the conclusion that there is no huge difference, but every day someone pops in and complains about "undriveable car" and expensive repair. But if you ask them something you never get a reply.

Yeah I nearly have 800 miles on my R8 LMS AE and it doesn't feel any different yet, although according to the game the rigidity has begun to deteriorate.