BRacer Just Quit GT7

  • Thread starter barak181
  • 115 comments
  • 14,038 views
Sony (and by extension PD) don’t ‘need’ to engage the intimately with the community to stay afloat, or even relevant for that matter. They’re not Kunos. They are the juggernauts of the racing games. And will most likely stay that way.

For better or worse, the franchise entitled “Gran Turismo” can still just about sell itself.

As much as their recent cock-ups annoy the diehard fans and sim racing enthusiasts alike, us die hard fans are but a niche in the grand scheme of all things Sony
Sure, but the dangerous part of that for Sony, and any company, is they have no idea what the silent majority are thinking. Of the few million that have probably bought GT7 so far, they only know what the niche few thousand, as you put it, are thinking. Did the millions like it, or were they too put off by the things the niche were? Are they going to be just as quick to buy the next game?

I'm sure Sony would love to know, so they know whether they need to make any drastic changes but beyond basic player retention/activity data, they don't know.

If you keep chucking out the same thing just expecting that most of your customers silently are satisfied with it, you're always in danger of being wrong and soon failing. Countless examples of that over the years.
 
Sure, but the dangerous part of that for Sony, and any company, is they have no idea what the silent majority are thinking. Of the few million that have probably bought GT7 so far, they only know what the niche few thousand, as you put it, are thinking. Did the millions like it, or were they too put off by the things the niche were? Are they going to be just as quick to buy the next game?

I'm sure Sony would love to know, so they know whether they need to make any drastic changes but beyond basic player retention/activity data, they don't know.

If you keep chucking out the same thing just expecting that most of your customers silently are satisfied with it, you're always in danger of being wrong and soon failing. Countless examples of that over the years.

I agree with this.


Here’s my take from someone who is a huge fan, spends a fair amount of time on this forum, usually has a stream in my headphones as I work…. but works 100 hours a week and splits my free time between racing dirt bikes, wrenching on said dirt bikes, surfing, and some sim racing. I play Gran Turismo on average 4 hours a week. I don’t grind. I don’t get into daily’s unless I like them, and there’s still plenty for me left to explore in this game. I’m what most people would consider a ‘casual’ player.

This game does way more right than wrong, through the eyes of a casual. The biggest thing that annoys me is the broken private lobbies. Mainly because our COTW club can’t get on GT7 yet. Bop issues? Meh… doesn’t really apply to me. FIA disconnects? Same. Lack of events? I don’t play enough….And I have gotten tremendous replay value out of the SP events that I do like. I have recently got into custom races, and I love setting the weather to random, speeding up the transitions and TOD progression, getting into my favorite cars (cockpit view with a stick shift please 😎), while watching and listening to this game work it’s magic.

From that perspective of a “casual”, this game is a masterpiece. Even considering it’s current flaws. This game will be an 12/10 once it gets on VR.

I want this game to get better like all of us, but it’s already pretty damn good for a lot of us.

Food for thought
 
Last edited:
Here’s my take from someone who is a huge fan, spends a fair amount of time on this forum, usually has a stream in my headphones as I work…. but works 100 hours a week and splits my free time between racing dirt bikes, wrenching on said dirt bikes, surfing, and some sim racing. I play Gran Turismo on average 4 hours a week. I don’t grind. I don’t get into daily’s unless I like them, and there’s still plenty for me left to explore in this game. I’m what most people would consider a ‘casual’ player.
Not really. Time wise you might be, but not from an enthusiasm/interest POV. Clearly you are pretty heavily invested in the game/series or you wouldn't be on here, even if you're not playing it 6 hours a day.

To me a casual player is someone who will probably only buy one car game every few years, and it'll be Gran Turismo because they've never heard of Assetto Corsa. They'll certainly not finish it or experience everything it has to offer.

So no, they also will likely not play online long enough or care enough about the issues facing Mr Gallo which caused him to quit, or anyone else seriously playing online that is also annoyed. They will play it for a week or two, then move on. Whether they enjoy that week or two is going to depend on many factors, varying for each person.

There might be one casual player who isn't really into cars but really likes the Ferrari F40. Will they be annoyed enough by the fact unless he played a certain week in March, they couldn't buy it? They're certainly not going to log on every day for the next few weeks to try and get it, because they don't care that much. But it could still put them off.

Another casual player might be annoyed by the random weather in all the events, another might love it. We really don't know.

When some cars handled terribly for a few weeks, that could certainly have put many casuals off.

Or what about the casual player who bought GTS in 2021 because they didn't care to buy it sooner, but they bought GT7 quicker because of the marketing or whatever other reason. Would they be put off by driving the same tracks they were driving on GTS, expecting a new game to be full of new tracks?

I could go on with several other examples around the issues people have raised here, but you get the idea. The casual/silent majority consumers are VERY hard to predict.
 
Not really. Time wise you might be, but not from an enthusiasm/interest POV. Clearly you are pretty heavily invested in the game/series or you wouldn't be on here, even if you're not playing it 6 hours a day.

To me a casual player is someone who will probably only buy one car game every few years, and it'll be Gran Turismo because they've never heard of Assetto Corsa. They'll certainly not finish it or experience everything it has to offer.

So no, they also will likely not play online long enough or care enough about the issues facing Mr Gallo which caused him to quit, or anyone else seriously playing online that is also annoyed. They will play it for a week or two, then move on. Whether they enjoy that week or two is going to depend on many factors, varying for each person.

There might be one casual player who isn't really into cars but really likes the Ferrari F40. Will they be annoyed enough by the fact unless he played a certain week in March, they couldn't buy it? They're certainly not going to log on every day for the next few weeks to try and get it, because they don't care that much. But it could still put them off.

Another casual player might be annoyed by the random weather in all the events, another might love it. We really don't know.

When some cars handled terribly for a few weeks, that could certainly have put many casuals off.

Or what about the casual player who bought GTS in 2021 because they didn't care to buy it sooner, but they bought GT7 quicker because of the marketing or whatever other reason. Would they be put off by driving the same tracks they were driving on GTS, expecting a new game to be full of new tracks?

I could go on with several other examples around the issues people have raised here, but you get the idea. The casual/silent majority consumers are VERY hard to predict.

I agree with all of this, but with one amendment.

Yes, you never know what might put the casual player off; but conversely… you don’t know what they’re willing to forgive either?






Besides, this game throws enough cars at you through the menus, that it’s easy to forgive your dream car being a tad unobtainable without a sizeable time/money-MTX investment, IMHO.

As far as the ridiculous physics of the first few weeks, I’m willing to guess that most casuals we’re using a controller with assists. So I don’t think it was nearly as brutal for them as it was for us. But I could be wrong. All I know is I went to the pad when the going got tough with certain license tests, and it was like playing a completely different game.

And yes, I am a tad (read: A LOT) more invested than your typical casual, but I do my very best to seperate the ADD and highly analytical “super fan” in me, from the eyes of a casual.


Regardless of the lens I view this game through, I thought the menus were an extremely smart move by PD. Hand-holding to us, yes. But that kind of hand holding is necessary for my 66 year old dad, or the 14 year old me that first played this game on n 1997 and didn’t really know a whole lot about cars.

Hell, I even “got” the music rally in the very beginning of the game (although I would have chosen a waaaaaaaay more upbeat and relevant song).
 
Last edited:
Sony (and by extension PD) don’t ‘need’ to engage the intimately with the community to stay afloat, or even relevant for that matter.
No company needs to, but it does help build a better sense of community (when done well), and it gives the impression that the company is aware of what their consumers like, don't like and should consider changing. Good communication and interactions builds loyalty to the brand, and that loyalty is especially important since since it's easier than ever to find alternatives (even if the alternative doesn't necessarily tick every single box Gran Turismo has).

It's also something that, to some degree, has become expected, due to it being much easier for game devs and people in the industry to reach out into their communities. We see it here on GTPlanet, since at one point Ian Bell and a few other members of SMS were active in the Project CARS subforums. @PJTierney is another example, as he often gives us updates on CodeMasters projects where he reasonably can, but regularly just casually talks to users about the games themselves, as well as throw in the occasional observations gained from working in a game studio as the Community Manager, so that the regular users have some extra context for certain situations.

We know that PD pays attention to GTPlanet, and keep tabs on what gets talked about here. What would be nice is if we did have some more regular (but still within reason) discourse from someone in PD, talking about what feedback is important, things that they want us to look for, etc. Just something that shows that they do actually take their customer's feedback seriously.
They’re not Kunos. They are the juggernauts of the racing games. And will most likely stay that way.

For better or worse, the franchise entitled “Gran Turismo” can still just about sell itself.
That's a good way to encourage complacency, and that is a dangerous thing to have while your rivals are doing what they can to catch up to you, since they're also going to be watching what you do well and what you don't do well. PD's complacency is (at least in part) what has led us to GT7s current status.
As much as their recent cock-ups annoy the diehard fans and sim racing enthusiasts alike, us die hard fans are but a niche in the grand scheme of all things Sony
True, but the diehard fans also have an important place in things, because they're the ones who tend to be more vocal about the product, as well as being (usually) much more knowledgeable about the product compared to the "normal" playerbase. It's through that that regular players can still keep up with current affairs, and be aware of what's going on with the game beyond what PD/Sony say. Afterall, a big reason why PD had/is addressing some of GT7s early issues is in part thanks to the "niche" fans voicing their displeasure.
 
Wow, it's difficult to see the transactional nature of our world explained in a forum post. You're pretty succinct in the way you wrote it and I would be interested to know if entertainment companies look at it this way. With video games in particular, the buy in from consumers seems much more than a fleeting one time transaction. Look at the effort most devs put into community engagement, they are trying to ensure the consumers who bought their product stay with the franchise. If devs agreed to your premise I'd love to hear their thoughts on that.
I mentioned, jokingly, about having missed a board meeting at PD/Sony.. thing is, what are their marketing doing, to sustain whatever the product? Toys? Shirts? Free giveaways? Sponsoring a school function somewhere? Having their product name on a windscreen banner?

For Gran Turismo, why place the Porsche and Mazda on the cover? Why not the Daihatsu Midget or the Escudo or the wheel of a Ferrari? What was trending for marketing to place Porsche and Mazda cars on the cover, because players know these brands? Is it the partnership that new players know nothing about? Enthusiasts do, but the buyers Kaz was targeting, are new players to the franchise and people that don't know much about automobiles. How do they lure someone fresh to click and buy this game?

I'm sure many devs love their product. I'm sure many only care about the numbers. I guess, if a dev only has one franchise in their studio and nothing else. Nothing outside to sustain their studio, of course their going to do everything in their power to listen and adjust to paying customers' requests. As for this franchise, it could cease to exist at the drop of a hat. Sony have other products to sell and are selling.
 
True, but the diehard fans also have an important place in things, because they're the ones who tend to be more vocal about the product, as well as being (usually) much more knowledgeable about the product compared to the "normal" playerbase. It's through that that regular players can still keep up with current affairs, and be aware of what's going on with the game beyond what PD/Sony say. Afterall, a big reason why PD had/is addressing some of GT7s early issues is in part thanks to the "niche" fans voicing their displeasure.

And diehard fans have friends who look to them for recommendations. For instance, I couldn't recommend the game to my friends until they had alleviated the infamous RWD oversteer issue.

Does anyone here like hockey? A famous saying is that the most dangerous lead is the two goal lead. I also remember a Sidney Crosby Gatorade commercial in which he says the better you are, the more you have to train because they're coming for you. An entire generation of kids is hungry and coming for your job.
 
And diehard fans have friends who look to them for recommendations. For instance, I couldn't recommend the game to my friends until they had alleviated the infamous RWD oversteer issue.

Does anyone here like hockey? A famous saying is that the most dangerous lead is the two goal lead. I also remember a Sidney Crosby Gatorade commercial in which he says the better you are, the more you have to train because they're coming for you. An entire generation of kids is hungry and coming for your job.
I don't follow hockey, but your last bit I agree with completely. PD no longer sits on the unreachable pedastal that they used to occupy. They spent so many years being the gold standard that a bunch of other groups in the genre have taken not of what they do well and what they fail at, and have used that to better their own products. Forza is the only thing that has really evolved with GT squarley in its gunsight, but even Microsoft has done so while trying to put their own spin on things and clearly keeping tabs on PD. As for everyone else, even though there's really not a lot of people outright trying to be Gran Turismo, the quality of racing games have improved significantly over time, so GT is no longer the end-all-be-all that it once was. However, it seems that Kaz/PD has unfortunately not gotten this memo.
 
Last edited:


Last year's world champion publicly calling the game broken and won't compete until they fix it. Kind of a big deal.

Personally, I haven't played for weeks after finishing all the single player content and have found the online plays severely lacking - which is pretty amazing considering that GTS was all about the online play. I don't get it. I thought the entire point
of GTS was for PD to figure out the online/esports aspects. Then they ignored everything they should've learned from GTS.

1st post in this thread. Tweet says about a break, for some reason title of this thread says that he quit.

I guess GT7 is esports ready if he made this decision. 🤣
 
Last edited:
This kinda sums up why PD won't really ever change.

People complain and dislike the game but can't help but play it whether that's Gallo and the World Series or Joey Public and the Engine glitch or Tokyo Tomohawk spamming etc.

They have us where they want us.
 
Last edited:
Esports ready is vague. The yearly sports games with lootboxes have "Esports" based on the players acquired from lootboxes and sadly those are very popular. As much as I don't like most aspects of GT7, it's far from the worst of the worst for Esports.
 
Esports ready is vague. The yearly sports games with lootboxes have "Esports" based on the players acquired from lootboxes and sadly those are very popular. As much as I don't like most aspects of GT7, it's far from the worst of the worst for Esports.
It’s not the game mechanics that’s the issue, the online infrastructure is, and it’s still dodgy to say the least.
 
To be fair, he's barely raced in the World Series Online Season. He qualified for the World Series Round 1 (and Showdown) by being in the top 16 in the 2021 World Final - and it's not like he'll be doing any public racing by driving in Round 1.

In fact ten of the 16 finalists (and therefore Round 1 attendees) have almost no GT7 World Series mileage (in Nations at least; way more driving Manufacturers exclusively).
 
Last edited:
And only 14.5% ("very rare") of total (PS4?) GT7 players even bothered to (buy PlayStation Plus? and) try Sports mode.

What's the numbers on PS5 ? I don't have one yet but I'm curious.
F1F13E7F-CC0C-40B2-AB89-F40B77DBEBE3.png

If you keep chucking out the same thing just expecting that most of your customers silently are satisfied with it, you're always in danger of being wrong and soon failing. Countless examples of that over the years.
EA anybody? I loathe purchasing EA products for this specific predatory behavior against their consumers, its pervasive across the brand. Ask yourself, do you think that is a helthy business model? They survive through sheer volume and the oversaturation of the marketplace to remain viable/profitable and the sheep lap it up. That only works when you can earn a critical mass of market share and I don’t think any console-exclusive game in at least 2 decades has been able to do that, MAYBE Halo.

It will get better. I mean, it has to…right?
 
Back