- 28,470
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- Johnnypenso
Brexit - The UK leaves the EU
- Thread starter Touring Mars
- 6,870 comments
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In privatised industry the same issue can occur. So I don't really see the point in your post. It being a government run institution doesn't inevitably lead to this. How this government runs this institution does have an effect. I.e. underfunding the institution.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
Juncker is day-dreaming. But that this is his dream isn't surprising to anyone. In fact, I prefer to know than to be kept in ignorance. And I do believe his dream will come to be one day, I just can't imagine that happening in the next decades.
However, with the US of A drifting apart from global unity with Western Euope, and with the powers in the East rising … Juncker has a point. Either western Europe stands on its own as equal to the other powers, or it will become irrelevant. And bullied.
Back to your NHS issue, I'll only say that this weekend I was with a (portuguese) medical doctor that told me UK Hospitals were trying to recruit doctors and nurses in Portugal, not only the ones already fully trained and with some professional experience, but also by "raiding" our universities, looking for the recent graduates or even about to be graduated.
I can't understand how a over populated country, all things considered a rich country, a country filled with excellent universities, is so desperately lacking skilled workers in its own people that it has to resort to these recruitment efforts among the bloody foreigners. Sometjhing is broken in the educational system.
However, with the US of A drifting apart from global unity with Western Euope, and with the powers in the East rising … Juncker has a point. Either western Europe stands on its own as equal to the other powers, or it will become irrelevant. And bullied.
Back to your NHS issue, I'll only say that this weekend I was with a (portuguese) medical doctor that told me UK Hospitals were trying to recruit doctors and nurses in Portugal, not only the ones already fully trained and with some professional experience, but also by "raiding" our universities, looking for the recent graduates or even about to be graduated.
I can't understand how a over populated country, all things considered a rich country, a country filled with excellent universities, is so desperately lacking skilled workers in its own people that it has to resort to these recruitment efforts among the bloody foreigners. Sometjhing is broken in the educational system.
@Hun200kmh I'm not to on top of the NHS problems but in belgium we have this issue in the care industry. And the core issue seems to be that due to.underfunding the workload is immense. Most newcommers quit out in their first years due to this issue. It's hard to keep filling jobs no one stays in because your overworking the people in these jobs.
Methinks it is hardly a coincidence that the 'time for European sovereignty has come' just as the UK is set to leave.
Does anyone really believe that the EU wants to reverse Brexit?!
Meanwhile, despite attempting to put a brave face on it, even the Guardian has had to admit that Juncker has just defecated on the Chequers plan from a great height, dismissing the central aim of the plan as something the EU 'cannot' accept.
It makes sense
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
In private industry wages will rise as demand rises, that's how the marketplace works and that's how they get more people to work there. It's not instantaneous obviously as you don't create nurses and doctors overnight but eventually the market responds. When the government runs things and pays people according to whatever the bureaucracy has determined is the correct wage, shortages will inevitably occur if that wage is not what the marketplace thinks that job is worth. This is the inevitable result of wage and price controls. This is why, for example, several of the nurses I know work in the U.S. and travel across the border every day. More money, more benefits, far, far better working conditions.
See above.
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Which then leads to increased prices, which leads to people not being able to pay for certain care they desperatly need.
I think acting as if the demand side should be just a market, to be inhumane. Yes this is a loaded word that's kind of what happens when lives are at stake. I have a friend who doesn't get the support she needs. She has no option but to slowly die from the dissease because paying for the treatment is impossible. Whose life quality drops significantly due to this. We're not talking about products we're talking about human life.
So maybe the correct solution is not to underfund the care industry so doctors and nurses and... get a descent job and people can.still pay for treatments due to government subsidies.
In theory, it's not an issue. British multiculturalism has been a brilliant success story and is one of the few things I've ever felt proud of being British. Reforming the NHS, an almost impossible task, will take decades and it's a hot-button political target.
Brexit will hurt every area of British life and the NHS was one of the first victims.
- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Europe's disarray on migration policy faces an imminent challenge with the looming battle for Idlib in Syria. Idlib is close to the end-game for the Syrian war, and it is looking increasingly like a humanitarian disaster on a scale that is immense, even by Syria's own terrible standards. Some 3 million civilians, many of whom are refugees from areas that have already been devastated by way, face being caught in the crossfire as the Assad regime advance on Idlib, with nowhere left for civilians to run. Turkey has closed its border, denying Syrian civilians with a crucial route of escape - but faced with the grim reality of a bloodbath, Turkey may well take in even more refugees, even though it already hosts some 3.5 million. The consequences for the fragile agreement between Turkey and the EU to stem the flow of refugees into Europe could be grave, and it is unclear how the EU will deal with another vast wave of refugees on a scale similar to the 2015 crisis. One thing is clear - the Idlib offensive is going to happen irrespective of what Turkey, Europe, the US or anyone else thinks, and it is going to come at a terrible cost in civilian lives unless Turkey (and others) can somehow let civilians flee, without opening their doors to the tens of thousands of Islamic extremists who are holed up in Idlib.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
You can't change the rules of supply and demand by government decree unless you intervene by force. The supply side of the market is going to react whether you like it or not. It has nothing to do with being humane and everything to do with hundreds of years of economic research into how markets work. The solution to any government problem is always more funding and with more funding comes more inefficiency and more waste...and more funding...etc. etc. etc. People will die when the government is slow to react to changing market conditions just as surely as they will die when they can't afford treatment. One of those ways makes you feel a lot better though.
Syria is an appalling cluster**** that future generations will look upon us with contempt for allowing to happen.
- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
This seems to have picked up traction;
London loses top spot to New York in financial survey due to Brexit
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-financial-center-brexit-blamed-idUSKCN1LS16I
But, it's largely a non-story. London and NY swap over the top spot constantly and have done for years.
London loses top spot to New York in financial survey due to Brexit
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-financial-center-brexit-blamed-idUSKCN1LS16I
But, it's largely a non-story. London and NY swap over the top spot constantly and have done for years.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 17,337
- United Kingdom
Well it seems like Brexit might help with house prices afterall...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45516678
Mark Carney met senior ministers on Thursday to discuss the risks of a disorderly exit from the EU.
His worst-case scenario was that house prices could fall as much as 35% over three years, a source told the BBC.
The warning echoes some of the Bank's previous comments.
The Bank of England routinely carries out "stress tests" to check whether the banking system can withstand extreme financial shocks.
Its latest one was conducted in November, when it said a 33% fall in house prices could occur in a worst-case scenario.
Several reports said that the Bank governor also told the Downing Street meeting that mortgage rates could spiral, the pound and inflation could fall, and countless homeowners could be left in negative equity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45516678
Mark Carney met senior ministers on Thursday to discuss the risks of a disorderly exit from the EU.
His worst-case scenario was that house prices could fall as much as 35% over three years, a source told the BBC.
The warning echoes some of the Bank's previous comments.
The Bank of England routinely carries out "stress tests" to check whether the banking system can withstand extreme financial shocks.
Its latest one was conducted in November, when it said a 33% fall in house prices could occur in a worst-case scenario.
Several reports said that the Bank governor also told the Downing Street meeting that mortgage rates could spiral, the pound and inflation could fall, and countless homeowners could be left in negative equity.
If that happens it will only make the wealthy super wealthy. Worst-case scenario probably also includes the economy shrinking and people loosing jobs.
- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Oh well, No Deal it is then...
Shadow Foreign Secretary says that Labour will vote against Brexit deal
https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a6-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1 (paywall)
Labour are sticking to their guns that Brexit must 'deliver the same benefits as EU membership' such as Single Market access and a Customs Union, seemingly (still) unaware that this is complete anathema to the EU and simply cannot be done. I don't understand why Labour don't just face facts and realise that their only credible option is to call for the UK to Remain in the EU, although I personally don't believe that this is nearly as straightforward as it sounds. The sad truth is that Labour have as little clue on what to do about Brexit as the Tories, but they do hold the future of the current Brexit deal in their hands - however, by effectively ruling out all possible Tory options, while pursuing an impossible policy of their own, Labour are virtually guaranteeing that there will be No Deal.
Shadow Foreign Secretary says that Labour will vote against Brexit deal
https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a6-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1 (paywall)
Labour are sticking to their guns that Brexit must 'deliver the same benefits as EU membership' such as Single Market access and a Customs Union, seemingly (still) unaware that this is complete anathema to the EU and simply cannot be done. I don't understand why Labour don't just face facts and realise that their only credible option is to call for the UK to Remain in the EU, although I personally don't believe that this is nearly as straightforward as it sounds. The sad truth is that Labour have as little clue on what to do about Brexit as the Tories, but they do hold the future of the current Brexit deal in their hands - however, by effectively ruling out all possible Tory options, while pursuing an impossible policy of their own, Labour are virtually guaranteeing that there will be No Deal.
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That picture couldn't be more perfect
This seems fair enough, after all it's what people voted for... shame it's taken them two years to actually come to the realisation they are an opposition party...
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- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
If anyone who voted to Leave the EU believed that we would have the 'same benefits as EU membership' outside of the EU, then they deserve a slap.
Ironically, this idiotic delusion is one of the few things that many in Theresa May's government and the Labour party actually appear to agree upon - and it's the one thing that they were never going to get.
At least Jacob Rees-Mogg and some other hard Brexiteers understand that the reality of leaving the EU means giving up all of the benefits of being an EU member state (is this concept really that hard to understand!?) and proposing an exit mechanism and future relationship that the EU can possibly accept. But they are in a small minority and don't stand much chance of convincing Theresa May that she needs to support their plan. They do, however, have one crucial advantage - the default situation now favours them... a No Deal outcome will be bad but it is, at the very least, consistent with the Hard Brexit doctrine of fully leaving the EU. Compared to the damage that No Deal could cause to the UK economy, the ERG plans sound comparatively sensible.
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If this is true, they lie about it.
Mogg constantly says that there will be no down side to Brexit and that it will help the country, while his company moves its HQ to Ireland. He's fully of **** and has been constantly, he's pushing more than anyone for the worst possible deal because he personally looks to make insane money.
- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Donald Tusk has said that the UK's Brexit plans, especially regarding Northern Ireland, 'need to be reworked' - meanwhile, Theresa May has rejected Michel Barnier's proposal as unacceptable. So back to square one...
Meanwhile, calls for a second referendum are coming thick and fast - but not only do I not believe that a second referendum is going to make things any clearer (for reasons I've already discussed), there is also the fear that a second vote (in favour of Remain) would essentially be an endorsement of the view that it is not possible to leave the EU with a negotiated deal. While that might sound like a good thing, especially to those who voted to Remain in the first place, I really don't think it is - in fact I think it is a very bad thing indeed; ironically, it will only strengthen the argument (in the UK and elsewhere) that the whole Article 50 process is a waste of time and that there is no 'orderly' mechanism by which a member state can exit. This could well be the case with Brexit - if all attempts at a negotiated deal are dismissed, then the UK will be left with just two options - concede defeat and remain inside the EU indefinitely, or leave without any deal at all. I think both outcomes are potentially very bad for both the UK and the EU (for different reasons), but the EU may soon realise that they are letting slip an opportunity to control the mechanism by which a member state can leave - otherwise it runs a very real risk of demonstrating that it cannot, with potentially disastrous consequences.
Meanwhile, calls for a second referendum are coming thick and fast - but not only do I not believe that a second referendum is going to make things any clearer (for reasons I've already discussed), there is also the fear that a second vote (in favour of Remain) would essentially be an endorsement of the view that it is not possible to leave the EU with a negotiated deal. While that might sound like a good thing, especially to those who voted to Remain in the first place, I really don't think it is - in fact I think it is a very bad thing indeed; ironically, it will only strengthen the argument (in the UK and elsewhere) that the whole Article 50 process is a waste of time and that there is no 'orderly' mechanism by which a member state can exit. This could well be the case with Brexit - if all attempts at a negotiated deal are dismissed, then the UK will be left with just two options - concede defeat and remain inside the EU indefinitely, or leave without any deal at all. I think both outcomes are potentially very bad for both the UK and the EU (for different reasons), but the EU may soon realise that they are letting slip an opportunity to control the mechanism by which a member state can leave - otherwise it runs a very real risk of demonstrating that it cannot, with potentially disastrous consequences.
May has also said, it’s this plan or no plan... seemingly holding a gun to her head...
Though I think there is a way to leave the EU, but it’s not a matter that can be solved quickly and easily. You can just invoke Art.50 (well clearly you can) and then be like, right then chaps, what are we doing again, what’s our plan?
There was no process in which the government or any body relating to government sat down and figured out how to leave the EU. We were just told it’d be easy peasy and great, triggered it and then decided it was time to think about it... or not...
- 29,378
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
British Prime Minister Theresa May has 10 minutes to address the EU about her Brexit proposals tonight at a crucial meeting in Salzburg. 10 minutes.
This should tell us all you need to know about the chances of a respectable deal with the EU.
As a Remain voter, I am perhaps more inclined to give the EU the benefit of the doubt than many others, and yet even I can see how ridiculous this whole thing is - it's EU law that the Article 50 process is concluded within exactly 2 years, and yet the UK PM gets just 10 minutes at a crucial debate to put forward her case?! (which has already been rejected anyway...)
What this is boiling down to is whether a supranational entity overrides the power of a sovereign state - is the EU Single Market more important than the integrity of the UK (or any other member state)? I'd like to think that both concepts can live side by side, but it is becoming increasingly clear that the EU is now a juggernaut that won't tolerate a sovereign state standing up for itself.
What the EU is demanding of the UK is impossible, and yet they seem pretty happy to force our hand, even to their own detriment as well as ours. But what chance does the UK have when the Prime Minister has just 10 minutes to talk, followed by a detailed discussion between the other member states the next day when the UK are not permitted to participate? Given that the topic of discussion is nothing less than imposing a customs border within UK sovereign territory, it seems pretty ridiculous that this should be the case.
Meanwhile, it has taken more than 10 minutes to compose this post - let that sink in for a moment.
This should tell us all you need to know about the chances of a respectable deal with the EU.
As a Remain voter, I am perhaps more inclined to give the EU the benefit of the doubt than many others, and yet even I can see how ridiculous this whole thing is - it's EU law that the Article 50 process is concluded within exactly 2 years, and yet the UK PM gets just 10 minutes at a crucial debate to put forward her case?! (which has already been rejected anyway...)
What this is boiling down to is whether a supranational entity overrides the power of a sovereign state - is the EU Single Market more important than the integrity of the UK (or any other member state)? I'd like to think that both concepts can live side by side, but it is becoming increasingly clear that the EU is now a juggernaut that won't tolerate a sovereign state standing up for itself.
What the EU is demanding of the UK is impossible, and yet they seem pretty happy to force our hand, even to their own detriment as well as ours. But what chance does the UK have when the Prime Minister has just 10 minutes to talk, followed by a detailed discussion between the other member states the next day when the UK are not permitted to participate? Given that the topic of discussion is nothing less than imposing a customs border within UK sovereign territory, it seems pretty ridiculous that this should be the case.
Meanwhile, it has taken more than 10 minutes to compose this post - let that sink in for a moment.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I somehow sense a bit of passion and anger in that 10 minutes of deep thoughtfulness. It seems as though, like Ahab, the EU is pursing its white whale at the expense of all else. If I were May, I might be tempted to tease them a bit by threatening to join in alliance with Russia in the effort to thwart the EU in every last ****ing thing they might ever attempt to do. If you are going down, at the very least you can take them with you.
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- United Kingdom
Perhaps they'd be more tolerant of a country triggering article 50 if it had a strong, stable and somewhat united government in charge, representing a population delivering an overwhelming mandate, and one that have put considerable thought into planning for it prior to even announcing their intention to do it...
... instead they've got the ill-conceived bumbling ****-show the UK has put on for them to deal with.
Cultural gap.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
