Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
John McDonnell has said that Labour could be 'officially neutral' in a second Brexit referendum and... wait, what?! :lol: He's also said that a Labour government would hold a second referendum before going back to the EU to renegotiate Brexit... even though the party could be 'neutral' or 'agnostic' on the subject.

I'm struggling to understand the logic here - but I think Labour are trying to let their members take the decision to reverse Brexit for them so as not to appear to alienate Labour leave supporters; but by officially being 'neutral' on Brexit, esp. if Corbyn gets his way and a General Election is called, Labour will be decimated.

If there is a snap election, it will be a de facto second referendum, but this time it will be 'No Deal' v 'Remain'. But, by failing to support Remain while being categorically opposed to No Deal, what does Labour think will happen to their vote share?!
 
Touring Mars
If there is a snap election, it will be a de facto second referendum, but this time it will be 'No Deal' v 'Remain'. But, by failing to support Remain while being categorically opposed to No Deal, what does Labour think will happen to their vote share?!
Click to expand...

Only for one side though, Leave will see it that way and a way for them to guarantee no-deal (y'know the thing everyone said that absolutely wouldn't happen and that no one ever wanted anyway), while Remainers will see it as a GE... split between loyalty for Corbs and then Lib Dems/Greens...

I don't think there is any real way for Remain to win an election, Labour have made such a total **** up of the last 3+ years that many that would have voted for them or did in the past, no longer will... and those votes will instead of going to one other place, will be split. All the while pro-brexit and no-deal idiots will just have one simple and easy place to vote.

Best case if a GE does happen/when it happens and you are not an idiot/millionaire is that it further splits the house and boosts the LibDems/Greens... but I can't see that happening.
 
Touring Mars
John McDonnell has said that Labour could be 'officially neutral' in a second Brexit referendum and... wait, what?! :lol: He's also said that a Labour government would hold a second referendum before going back to the EU to renegotiate Brexit... even though the party could be 'neutral' or 'agnostic' on the subject.

I'm struggling to understand the logic here - but I think Labour are trying to let their members take the decision to reverse Brexit for them so as not to appear to alienate Labour leave supporters; but by officially being 'neutral' on Brexit, esp. if Corbyn gets his way and a General Election is called, Labour will be decimated.

If there is a snap election, it will be a de facto second referendum, but this time it will be 'No Deal' v 'Remain'. But, by failing to support Remain while being categorically opposed to No Deal, what does Labour think will happen to their vote share?!
Click to expand...
Would anyone like to ask Corbyn if he is so against no deal brexit why did he, and most of his party, vote for no deal when there was a vote to leave with a deal. Three times. In. A. Row.

How easy would it be for enough people in each of the 650 constituencies to get enough signatures on a document expressing no confidence in the sitting MP?
 
Touring Mars
If the UK leaves the EU without a deal, then the EU will have absolutely no way of controlling or deciding how the UK should police the border, Indeed, the UK and Irish governments have already ruled out checks at the border.
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So Ireland become the entry point for anyone in the EU who wants to work in the UK. Which means UK cannot control freedom of movement of EU nationals.....which I thought was one of the main pillars of Brexit.
 
Daz555
So Ireland become the entry point for anyone in the EU who wants to work in the UK. Which means UK cannot control freedom of movement of EU nationals.....which I thought was one of the main pillars of Brexit.
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Freedom of movement doesn't give non-UK citizens the right to live or work in the UK...

It will still be possible for EU nationals to freely enter the UK (at least in Northern Ireland) if there are no border checks, but that's not the same as giving those people the legal right to remain there.
 
Tired Tyres
How easy would it be for enough people in each of the 650 constituencies to get enough signatures on a document expressing no confidence in the sitting MP?
Click to expand...

There has to be a valid reason for doing so under the Recall of MPs Act 2015 but you only need 10% of the constituency's electorate to sign a recall petition to trigger a by-election.
 
Liquid
There has to be a valid reason for doing so under the Recall of MPs Act 2015 but you only need 10% of the constituency's electorate to sign a recall petition to trigger a by-election.
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Isn't being an MP for the last three years good enough?
 
Liquid
There has to be a valid reason for doing so under the Recall of MPs Act 2015 but you only need 10% of the constituency's electorate to sign a recall petition to trigger a by-election.
Click to expand...

Indeed, I looked it up on the Parliament website:

Parliament UK
  • If they are convicted in the UK of an offence and sentenced or ordered to be imprisoned or detained and all appeals have been exhausted (and the sentence does not lead to automatic disqualification from being an MP);
  • If they are suspended from the House following report and recommended sanction from the Committee on Standards for a specified period (at least 10 sitting days, or at least 14 days if sitting days are not specified).;
  • If they are convicted of an offence under section 10 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009 (making false or misleading Parliamentary allowances claims)
Click to expand...
 
Judging from the Comments section in the Guardian, it would appear that my take on a No Deal Brexit is not very popular :lol:

I don't know what I was expecting, but it seems most people seem to believe that Ireland will simply erect a hard border on November 1st and that will be that.

Also, it's pretty clear that most (if not all) people cannot distinguish between someone who is just pointing out facts/possible scenarios and one's opinion. I've been labelled a Brexiteer, called "depraved" and accused of sounding like David Davis in just the last two days alone, yet I've repeatedly pointed out that I am opposed to Brexit, and not (as most people seem to think) endorsing Brexit, let alone a No Deal Brexit! :rolleyes:
 
Touring Mars
Judging from the Comments section in the Guardian, it would appear that my take on a No Deal Brexit is not very popular :lol:

I don't know what I was expecting, but it seems most people seem to believe that Ireland will simply erect a hard border on November 1st and that will be that.

Also, it's pretty clear that most (if not all) people cannot distinguish between someone who is just pointing out facts/possible scenarios and one's opinion. I've been labelled a Brexiteer, called "depraved" and accused of sounding like David Davis in just the last two days alone, yet I've repeatedly pointed out that I am opposed to Brexit, and not (as most people seem to think) endorsing Brexit, let alone a No Deal Brexit! :rolleyes:
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“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”

― Aristotle
 
Funny pic of Boris. He looks like he's got it all under control.



Macron, giggling like a schoolgirl, snubs out reefer behind table.
Boris: "Hell, this job is so easy a caveman could do it!"
 
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user3392345
Boris Johnson is just a retarded clown.
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"retarded"? Please :rolleyes:

Johnson has just secured more significant concessions on Brexit in just a couple of weeks than the previous government managed in over three years.

Granted, he may well be a bit of a clown, but 'retarded' he most definitely is not.
 
Touring Mars
"retarded"? Please :rolleyes:

Johnson has just secured more significant concessions on Brexit in just a couple of weeks than the previous government managed in over three years.

Granted, he may well be a bit of a clown, but 'retarded' he most definitely is not.
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He arrived nothing on his begging tour. Germany and France send him back home with a NO.
Third world country incoming :)
 
user3392345
He arrived nothing on his begging tour. Germany and France send him back home with a NO.
Click to expand...
Wrong.

For the first time, the leaders of both France and Germany, by far the most significant and most influential leaders in the EU27, have suggested a possible way to break the impasse.

The impasse, in case anyone doesn't know, has been caused by the presence and the nature of the 'backstop', which has been rightly rejected repeatedly by the UK because it legally commits the UK to remaining inside the EU's legal orbit indefinitely without an exit mechanism that the UK can enact democratically. The EU, however, will not allow any negotiations on trade etc. until after the backstop has been agreed - ergo, No Deal. Right?

Well... the way to block the impasse is now becoming clear, and that is to formally agree that the UK has already satisfied the requirement to provide 'alternative arrangements' before the Withdrawal Agreement is signed, thus the backstop, while technically still in force, is rendered moot. A legally binding codicil could be added to the Political Declaration to this effect, meaning that the UK can now safely sign the Withdrawal Agreement with no possibility of being permanently trapped in the EU's legal orbit with no way of exiting.

If a timetable can be agreed (e.g. the end of 2021), then the interim period would simply be a 'transition period' where the whole of the UK stays in the Single Market until the formal handover date (which could even be extended by mutual agreement), after which the UK leaves. That gives the UK over a year to put into place alternative arrangements for the Irish border. Both Ireland and the UK can work on this together, as should have been agreed on Day 1...

To my great frustration and annoyance, Michel Barnier himself has already voiced this very idea to Ireland, but when the UK has (repeatedly) asked for it, we've been completely ignored. To add insult to injury, they then have the audacity to instruct us to 'tell them what we want'. The answer has been staring them in the face for years, but it is only now that they are staring down the barrel of the UK actually walking away that we're starting to see some common sense.

What the EU have singularly failed to understand about the backstop is that the UK and Ireland already have a solemn agreement to never install a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland - the EU are the only ones talking about requiring a hard border, but it is never going to happen. So long as that is the case, the EU's legal straitjacket which is the backstop is not only not required, it only ever served the purpose of frustrating the UK's exit. But their gamble - that the UK would sooner overturn the referendum result than walk away with no deal - has failed.

With some luck, common sense will prevail, but I still doubt that will happen. Fortunately, although No Deal will be costly in the short term for all involved, the permanent outcome will almost certainly look very like what I've just described above, which is a borderless Ireland with the UK and Ireland using new methods approved by the EU to ensure that cross-border trade is correctly monitored, and protects the integrity of both the UK's own internal market and the EU's single market.

It is finally starting to dawn on the EU that, when it comes to how Ireland and the UK can co-exist without a hard border while one remains an EU member while the other does not, it is not a question of whether or not it happens, it is only a question of how it happens.
 
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Dennisch
We'll be waiting on the beach for them to arrive.

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It's funny, but I'd bet that the large majority of people who voted Brexit drink "normal" Scotch, eat bog-standard Cheddar, and wouldn't touch wurst with their own sausage. Wine and beer... he's got me there :)

He should also know that "We'll Meet Again" is about Us Going Over There And Giving Jerry A Drubbing He'll Never Forget :D
 

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