Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

[Touring Mars]

I wonder what is wrong with proposing a 'Leave' referendum, to take the decision of 'Deal or No Deal' (and, read 'Backstop or No Backstop') away from the warring MPs and give it back to the people in an unequivocal, simple two-option question: Do you want to leave the EU with the Withdrawal Agreement* or Do you want to leave the EU without a deal.

To me, that would seem fair. It would a) respect the first result and b) give the Government a mandate to proceed. It would either force MPs (mainly Labour) to agree to the Withdrawal Agreement, or it would force MPs to vote through a No Deal Brexit.


* The EU have insisted that the Withdrawal Agreement is required for all possible deals, so there is no point in arguing for a third option e.g. a 'new' deal/new Withdrawal Agreement.

The House has backed the first stage of the Brexit delay bill by 329 to 300. There is talk of more expulsions from the Conservative party.

One MP who didn't vote for the motion last night has voted for the Bill today - given that only Tory and DUP MPs didn't vote for the motion last night, that means that whoever changed their vote today is either a Tory or a DUP MP - and I'm guessing it wasn't the DUP. That means another expulsion.

 

[TenEightyOne]

One MP who didn't vote for the motion last night has voted for the Bill today - given that only Tory and DUP MPs didn't vote for the motion last night, that means that whoever changed their vote today is either a Tory or a DUP MP - and I'm guessing it wasn't the DUP. That means another expulsion.

I think two Labour MPs and a couple of independents voted with the Tories last night?

EDIT: It was Spelman (Con) who voted with last night and against today.

 

[Touring Mars]

I think two Labour MPs and a couple of independents voted with the Tories last night?

EDIT: It was Spelman (Con) who voted with last night and against today.

Yes, I saw a graphic that looked like it was just CON and DUP, but I was forgetting about Kate Hoey

 

[Touring Mars]

Something just happened in the House of Commons that has left the BBC Parliament commentators baffled... and intrigued.

An amendment was proposed by Stephen Kinnock that paves the way for the Withdrawal Agreement to be voted on again, and it looks like it has been passed "by accident" because no tellers were available to report the result of the vote, thereby allowing it to pass by default.

Given what @Famine said a couple of days ago about the prorogation of Parliament allowing for such an eventuality, it seems like an extraordinary coincidence that an amendment like this gets passed 'by accident'...

That rat Brexiteers could smell just ran across the floor of the Commons in plain sight...

 

[PzR Slim]

Something just happened in the House of Commons that has left the BBC Parliament commentators baffled... and intrigued.

An amendment was proposed by Stephen Kinnock that paves the way for the Withdrawal Agreement to be voted on again, and it looks like it has been passed "by accident" because no tellers were available to report the result of the vote, thereby allowing it to pass by default.

Given what @Famine said a couple of days ago about the prorogation of Parliament allowing for such an eventuality, it seems like an extraordinary coincidence that an amendment like this gets passed 'by accident'...

That rat Brexiteers could smell just ran across the floor of the Commons in plain sight...

That seems like a rather ridiculous state of affairs.

 

[Touring Mars]

That seems like a rather ridiculous state of affairs.

It is very strange... even stranger that there seems to be no objections or questions about it... very weird indeed.

 

[PzR Slim]

It is very strange... even stranger that there seems to be no objections or questions about it... very weird indeed.

Ex-SNP MP tweeted to say government mustn’t have put any tellers forward.

 

[Touring Mars]

Meanwhile, Ken Clarke, the Father of the House, who has just been kicked out of the Conservative Party, is eviscerating Boris Johnson from his original seat on the Conservative benches because there is no room left on the opposition benches for him to sit

It's quite hilarious to watch.

 

[ryzno]

It's quite hilarious to watch.

I must say it is!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Meanwhile, Ken Clarke, the Father of the House, who has just been kicked out of the Conservative Party, is eviscerating Boris Johnson from his original seat on the Conservative benches because there is no room left on the opposition benches for him to sit

It's quite hilarious to watch.

Mrs. Ten and I are astonished that Clarke is speaking the most sense we've heard in this sitting. Corbyn is, once again, unable to follow the notes someone else has written for him and Johnson is sticking to the populist "him or me" line without being able to speak of any factual, substantial plans for anything. It's a ****ing nonsense.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Ian Blackford going for it too! I'm hoping he finishes with "Yea'll Never Tek Our Freeedum!"

 

[PzR Slim]

Mrs. Ten and I are astonished that Clarke is speaking the most sense we've heard in this sitting. Corbyn is, once again, unable to follow the notes someone else has written for him and Johnson is sticking to the populist "him or me" line without being able to speak of any factual, substantial plans for anything. It's a ****ing nonsense.

If this was football you’d be very happy to see Corbyn on the opposing team, guaranteed own goal every game.

 

[Touring Mars]

I'm not a fan of the SNP, but I do like Ian Blackford...

In response to the cutting accusation that the SNP are scheming to somehow cancel Brexit, he basically just said 'Erm, yes, that is the general idea...'

 

[MatskiMonk]

Vote on the GE is in 1 hour.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'm not a fan of the SNP, but I do like Ian Blackford...

In response to the cutting accusation that the SNP are scheming to somehow cancel Brexit, he basically just said 'Erm, yes, that is the general idea...'

As he should, Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain.

The conservatives have become a very, very ugly mob of charlatans who are not even trying to hide there true intentions. Absolutely transparent and must be stopped.

 

[Touring Mars]

Yes, I'm glad that the SNP are so wholeheartedly supporting the concept of remaining part of a larger union that makes life better and easier for all of us, despite some cost in terms of cedeing some sovereignty to that larger body for the greater good....

... oh, snap.

 

[PzR Slim]

Yes, I'm glad that the SNP are so wholeheartedly supporting the concept of remaining part of a larger union that makes life better and easier for all of us, despite some cost in terms of cedeing some sovereignty to that larger body for the greater good....

... oh, snap.

Honestly, the current state of affairs you’d be better off ditching us and sticking with our pals on the continent.

 

[Touring Mars]

Honestly, the current state of affairs you’d be better off ditching us and sticking with our pals on the continent.

I wish it were that simple.

But, I'm a pretty staunch opponent of Scottish independence... I don't really want a hard border with England or to have to show my passport to go out drinking with my mates in Manchester.

And, it is by no means clear if an independent Scotland would even join the EU... either because the Scottish people would reject the idea, or the EU might reject our application on economic grounds. Put it this way, it wouldn't shock me if Scotland failed to qualify for the Euros - again.

 

[PzR Slim]

I wish it were that simple.

But, I'm a pretty staunch opponent of Scottish independence... I don't really want a hard border with England or to have to show my passport to go out drinking with my mates in Manchester.

And, it is by no means clear if an independent Scotland would even join the EU... either because the Scottish people would reject the idea, or the EU might reject our application on economic grounds. Put it this way, it wouldn't shock me if Scotland failed to qualify for the Euros - again.

Oh, I fully understand the predicament you Scots find yourself in. Being from Newcastle I feel so much more affiliation with you than I do for the rest of England. I’d like to think you could thrive on your own inside the EU but realise that it would be a huge risk.

 

[PzR Slim]

Absolute bunch of charlatans.

Apologies for DP.

 

[eran0004]

Looks like he is channeling some kind of magic. Could be a scene from Harry Potter

 

[Touring Mars]

Looks like he is channeling some kind of magic. Could be a scene from Harry Potter

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Cunning Stunts

 

[PzR Slim]

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Cunning Stunts

Hat!

 

[MatskiMonk]

 

[PeterJB]

So we're now back to square one? (assuming we ever got off it)

 

[PzR Slim]

 

[Liquid]

Seeing Alun Cairns right there on the front bench next to the Prime Minister just makes me weep and wince.

 

[NotThePrez]

So, I have admittedly been doing a terrible job of keeping up with the Brexit shenanigans. I saw that Boris Johnson was lost/denied his early election, and as such I'm quite confused, and trying to get good, concise via Googlefu isn't helping too much. So, a few questions:

Is Brexit still happening?

Boris Johnson has lost the majority vote in Parliement? Does this mean he's no longer the Prime Minister, or at least at risk of losing his seat? How does this affect his ability to govern? Also, how did he even become PM after May left the office? I thought a lot of Britons thought he was a moron?

What kind of economic deal, if any, is BJ proposing? I know that he's prepared to have the UK leave without making a deal with the EU, which would understandably be economically dangerous, but what's his backup?

What's the climate like among the general populous? Is it still mostly divided?

Is it possible for Brexit to be cancelled and for the UK to remain in the EU?

Sorry if these are silly questions to ask. This is mostly the result of me trying to re-educate myself and getting overwhelmed in the process.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Is Brexit still happening?

Yes. It's currently in law, we're just arguing over how to do it... still.

Boris Johnson has lost the majority vote in Parliement? Does this mean he's no longer the Prime Minister, or at least at risk of losing his seat? How does this affect his ability to govern? Also, how did he even become PM after May left the office? I thought a lot of Britons thought he was a moron?

Bozza is still the PM, he's head of the party because the party voted for him, and because he's head of the party 'we' (mostly) voted into leadership at the last election, so he inherits the role. His party is not now big enough to achieve a majority vote on anything (by itself) in parliament. This is partly (I guess) why the opposition has voted down another election. If we had one, Boris could well increase his mandate, and retake a suitable majority in the house.

What kind of economic deal, if any, is BJ proposing? I know that he's prepared to have the UK leave without making a deal with the EU, which would understandably be economically dangerous, but what's his backup?

This is currently unknown to most people, including Boris, it seems. The default back-up is no deal... and we just have to bite it as a country if we leave. The closest thing to a plan appears to be the agreement the previous PM (Theresa May), agreed with the EU (which parliament then voted down, three times).

What's the climate like among the general populous? Is it still mostly divided?

Very much so. In pubs across the land, people still argue about things Thatcher did in the 70's and 80's.... the Brexit rift won't disappear for a long time.

Is it possible for Brexit to be cancelled and for the UK to remain in the EU?

Technically possible. If we got a delay again, and there was a big enough shift in the government to pass a bill to revoke the decision, or hold another referendum on the decision, and if the EU could/would accept it. It won't happen though. Only a couple of parties have said they'd cancel it, and they only hold a small fraction of the seats in parliament.. it'd need a total U-turn in one of the two biggest parties.



One question I have, @Touring Mars .. if we did get another extension, what would the chances of a) Scotland getting Indyref2, and b) Voting for it, and c) is it thought this would leave them in the EU by default, or would they have to apply?

 

[Novalee]

did not seem like a good day for mr johnson .