Brexit - The UK leaves the EU

Deal or No Deal?

  • Voted Leave - May's Deal

  • Voted Leave - No Deal

  • Voted Leave - Second Referendum

  • Did not vote/abstained - May's Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - No Deal

  • Did not vote/abstained - Second Referendum

  • Voted Remain - May's Deal

  • Voted Remain - No Deal

  • Voted Remain - Second Referendum

Results are only viewable after voting.
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving...

November 2020:
Ian Botham
I haven’t spent much time in the Lords yet...

...Anyway I’m enjoying it and will be at Westminster more often when we get back to normal, especially when they are debating something I know about – like sport or the countryside. Not much point if it’s a trade deal with Japan.
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Source: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/24/ian-botham-covid-19-brexit-headingley-vic-marks

Meanwhile, August 2021:

www.bbc.co.uk

Lord Botham appointed trade envoy to Australia

The former England cricket captain is one of 10 new trade envoys appointed by the prime minister.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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The more disturbing appointment is that of Kate Hoey to Ghana. I give her 2 hours before she drops some of Jim Davidson's "greatest" hits.
 
Liquid
Athletes
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main-qimg-1cb7a228b5e5949ccbc531fcb87977dd.jpeg
 
Liquid
Athletes should stick to sports and stay out of politics. :)
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hmmm, that's an interesting statement, I'm wondering does this also apply to Raheem Sterling and Marcus Rashford, for example? What constitutes politics?
 
Right-wing royalist rag trying to find even the most insignificant win amongst an ocean of Ls that no other outlet can be bothered to print in earnest. I'm sure they'll be just as pleased about the perpetually delayed delivery of divining stones they seem to rely on for their weather forecasts.
 
As a foreigner to your country business, I can't help but feel so jealous of you. First, because you're going to take your independence back, which is crucial to people's morale and that sense greatness of belonging to a great union of countries, The Common Wealth in your case; second, because no longer a random European Union Clown member you have never voted, let alone you didn't know even his name will tell you what to do; and third, because UK is a great country strong enough to come out of this situation again strong enough to come up on top in 5 or 6 years, maybe more given the painful situation we are all going through, but in the end you will endure. You shall see.

Envy is all I feel since you got rid of the EU fascist (called social democrats for a while now) chains. Congratulations people. Freedom and independece to make your own destiny.

**** EU.
 
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fernandito
As a foreigner to your country business, I can't help but feel so jealous of you. First, because you're going to take your independence back, which is crucial to people's morale and that sense greatness of belonging to a great union of countries, The Common Wealth in your case; second, because no longer a random European Union Clown member you have never voted, let alone you didn't know even his name will tell you what to do; and third, because UK is a great country strong enough to come out of this situation again strong enough to come up on top in 5 or 6 years, maybe more given the painful situation we are all going through, but in the end you will endure. You shall see.

Envy is all I feel since you got rid of the EU fascist (called social democrats for a while now) chains. Congratulations people. Freedom and independece to make your own destiny.

**** EU.
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:odd: I do hope that's sarcasm...
 
No, it is not. I'm very serious with everything that concerns the EU, specially with people that neither have I voted nor that I know much about, are making mandatory laws for the rest of us, and most of them deal with in a secretive nocturnal matter, like the latest law of information, that will give them access to any conversation you have had on your phone or email, all in the name of children abuse. (**** that you know?)

That, is not democracy. So no sarcasm at all.

And well I already have trouble to obeying anything a spaniard politician can tell me..., imagine anyone from another country.
 
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fernandito
which is crucial to people's morale and that sense greatness of belonging to a great union of countries
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Errr... Morale went to **** and the country is still heavily divided by Brexit because we elected to leave a 'great' union of countries...

fernandito
The Common Wealth in your case
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:confused: I'm pretty sure the people that think we shouldn't be in a union with Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, the Netherlands or Spain, for example.. don't regard us being in a union with Ghana, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Papua New Guinea, the Solomon Islands or Belize as that great.

fernandito
second, because no longer a random European Union Clown member you have never voted, let alone you didn't know even his name will tell you what to do; and third
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We still have a clown that <30% of the population voted for. We also have a Bicamarel parliament where 55% of the seats are not elected by us, and a head of state we cannot remove... we also had the third largest say in the European parliament.

fernandito
since you got rid of the EU fascist (called social democrats for a while now) chains
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Why do more Spanish people vote for Social Democrat MEP's than any other party?
 
I hope this isn't about equating the censorship of old movies and TV with dictatorship like it was December before last...
 
fernandito
No, it is not. I'm very serious with everything that concerns the EU, specially with people that neither I have voted nor that I know much about are making mandatory laws for the rest of us.

That, is not democracy. So no sarcasm at all.

And well I already have trouble to obeying anything a spaniard politician can tell me..., imagine anyone from another country.
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You don't bother voting for your MEPs? Odd I always did to ensure I had representation and Spain also has 59 of them, also given that Spain (along with every EU member state) has a Veto, claiming that laws are 'made mandatory for the rest of us' is also untrue.

Going back to your other claims, Brexit has not helped people's moral, it's utterly and toxically divided the county, the Commonwealth isn't a replacement for EU membership at all, oh and the UK had the strongest EU veto powers of any country in the bloc when we were members. While the EU does have it flaw's (every body of any sort does), repeating the kind of myths and nonsense that has been the norm for the right wing of the UK's tabloids for the past 50 years doesn't actually make them accurate.
 
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MatskiMonk
We still have a clown that <30% of the population voted for. We also have a Bicamarel parliament where 55% of the seats are not elected by us, and a head of state we cannot remove... we also had the third largest say in the European parliament.


Why do more Spanish people vote for Social Democrat MEP's than any other party?
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Because that's the man you voted for, and It is not my business to either interfere on your decisions nor to criticize others on making them.

And yeah, why do more Spanish people vote for etc?, because you can't imagine the control the left has in the secondary schools, university, media, etc etc etc. We have always had a very serious problem with political teaching and allowing young folks to grown their own political thinking, rather than letting them be dragged by all that the aforementioned. I myself have gone throught that too of course, like all over here, and know a lot about this and their ways.

We have also the issue that the "right" here are not..., let us say it "bright" and "fast" in countering the typical left message. But fortunately that might be coming to an end with a new right wing political party that doesn't suffer from other's "sense of guilty of what?" (sorry can't tell the english word for this right now), and are trying to counter the left massage with all they got, and without remorse of sense of guilty.

What will happen in next elections?, lol this is Spain you're right. Expect anything, like this same Sánchez dude again in the lead with all separatists, the now terrorist in the institutions (Bildu = old ETA), and all enemies of the nation. Yeah, they could win again, so you see how things are going over here...

Scaff
You don't bother voting for your MEPs? Odd I always did to ensure I had representation and Spain also has 59 of them, also given that Spain (along with every EU member state) has a Veto, claiming that laws are 'made mandatory for the rest of us' is also untrue.

Going back to your other claims, Brexit has not helped people's moral, it's utterly and toxically divided the county, the Commonwealth isn't a replacement for EU membership at all, oh and the UK had the strongest EU veto powers of any country in the bloc when we were members. While the EU does have it flaw's (every body of any sort does), repeating the kind of myths and nonsense that has been the norm for the right wing of the UK's tabloids for the past 50 years doesn't actually make them accurate.
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What's MEPs?

And sorry to hear about that in your second paragraph. Still, time must pass. You've just left and that obviously have an impact on your economy.., but that won't be for long, I hope.
 
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fernandito
What's MEPs?

And sorry to hear about that in your second paragraph. Still, time must pass. You've just left and that obviously have an impact on your economy.., but that won't be for long, I hope.
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Members of the European Parliament, in Spain's case you have 59 of them and they are voted for by Spanish citizens!

How on earth can you not know that and bang on about the EU?
 
Scaff
Members of the European Parliament, in Spain's case you have 59 of them and they are voted for by Spanish citizens!

How on earth can you not know that and bang on about the EU?
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Ah they!, yeah we vote for them to go over there, but I mean man..., you know we are the most powerful makers of decisions over there, as we could have it no other way since we are not many, right?, it is others who affect on us way more, and I don't like that, because i like independece. So in other words, I haven't voted all those others from more powerful countries and wherever else to make decisions for me.

I don't like EU, it is my view. And if I tell you one thing, all I feel when i watch or follow one of their regular "meetings" (can't come with the appropiate word now) in that massive hall, and have a look to all of them, the things they say, the stealthy stuff they approve like the law I have told you in my latest post, and the very well they live over there..., all I feel is even more loath towards the EU and all their representatives.

I would like to have my independence as a country back, just like you have had. Economic impact afterwrds? maybe, but we will get through that, too, just like you will you'll see.

This is not the EEUU. We are very different countries with different cultures and ways, and everyone talking their own language. This cannot end up well for anyone of us, let alone for the "weaker" ones like us.
 
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Scaff
Not actually satire...

View attachment 1080005

www.express.co.uk

Brexit triumph! Crown stamp FINALLY on pint glasses after 15 years

THE crown stamp that was proudly printed on pint glasses for generations before being replaced with a European Union symbol is expected to return in pubs across the country.
www.express.co.uk www.express.co.uk


Beer tasting as it used to could be dangerous wish to have, do they serious want Watneys back as it was?
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my own weird idiosyncracies but it amazes me that people give a toss about things like this.
 
fernandito
Ah they!, yeah we vote for them to go over there, but I mean man..., you know we are the most powerful makers of decisions over there, as we could have it no other way since we are not many, right?, it is others who affect on us way more, and I don't like that, because i like independece. So in other words, I haven't voted all those others from more powerful countries and wherever else to make decisions for me.

I don't like EU, it is my view. And if I tell you one thing, all I feel when i watch or follow one of their regular "meetings" (can't come with the appropiate word now) in that massive hall, and have a look to all of them, the things they say, the stealthy stuff they approve like the law I have told you in my latest post, and the very well they live over there..., all I feel is even more loath towards the EU and all their representatives.

I would like to have my independence as a country back, just like you have had. Economic impact afterwrds? maybe, but we will get through that, too, just like you will you'll see.

This is not the EEUU. We are very different countries with different cultures and ways, and everyone talking their own language. This cannot end up well for anyone of us, let alone for the "weaker" ones like us.
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Spain has a veto, you do understand what that means?
 
Scaff
Spain has a veto, you do understand what that means?
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All I understand we can laugh at that "veto" coming from Spain, specially if used against the will of the more powerful countries like France or Germany. You too understand what that means, right?

Also, I understand that I'm trying to talk about this politely and in a good tone, while you sound like a little bit exaulted since the beginning of the converstation, so please try to be polite as well when talking to me, because I see you can't deal very well with differing opinions to yours, which usually signals someone from the far left unable to reason with anything that doesn't fit his dogma. Or do you think I'm an idiot who don't understand what you're saying?

Calm down please.
 
fernandito
All I understand we can laugh at that "veto" coming from Spain, specially if used against the will of the more powerful countries like France or Germany. You too understand what that means, right?

Also, I understand that I'm trying to talk about this politely and in a good tone, while you sound like a little bit exaulted since the beginning of the converstation, so please try to be polite as well when talking to me, because I see you can't deal very well with differing opinions to yours, which usually signals someone from the far left unable to reason with anything that doesn't fit his dogma. Or do you think I'm an idiot who don't understand what you're saying?

Calm down please.
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Don't worry I'm perfectly calm, and I deal perfectly well with differing views and I'm certainly not far-left (not that being pro-EU is a specifically far-left view).

I ask because you have misinterpreted a number of points that have been raised, and seem to have done so again with regard to the Veto. If a proposal is put forward, for example if the UK wanted to re-join in the future and Spain veto'd it, then no other member can remove that veto position. Now in reality Spain may well use that as a bargaining tool to get specific conditions applied in order for them to remove the veto, but the use and removal of a veto is in Spain's control and no other members can stop them doing so.

The use of veto's in this manner was something that the UK was well versed in and did on a number of occasions, and no you don't need to be one of the bigger states in order to use it, as both Poland and Hungary have demonstrated only last year.
 
Scaff
Don't worry I'm perfectly calm, and I deal perfectly well with differing views and I'm certainly not far-left (not that being pro-EU is a specifically far-left view).

I ask because you have misinterpreted a number of points that have been raised, and seem to have done so again with regard to the Veto. If a proposal is put forward, for example if the UK wanted to re-join in the future and Spain veto'd it, then no other member can remove that veto position. Now in reality Spain may well use that as a bargaining tool to get specific conditions applied in order for them to remove the veto, but the use and removal of a veto is in Spain's control and no other members can stop them doing so.

The use of veto's in this manner was something that the UK was well versed in and did on a number of occasions, and no you don't need to be one of the bigger states in order to use it, as both Poland and Hungary have demonstrated only last year.
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And I agree. I do.

What I mean, is that no spanish vet will ever happen, let alone when countries that actually run all new stuff in the form of norms and laws are precisley those more powerful like France and Germany, so we have no actual power to influence on those.

We're literally irrelevant if not everyone's jester, which is also obvious with the socialist goverment and representation we have, again, doing ridicule everywhere we go, and eventually making for my second point.
 
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fernandito
Ah they!, yeah we vote for them to go over there, but I mean man..., you know we are the most powerful makers of decisions over there, as we could have it no other way since we are not many, right?, it is others who affect on us way more, and I don't like that, because i like independece. So in other words, I haven't voted all those others from more powerful countries and wherever else to make decisions for me.
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This isn't that straightforward, out of the EU-27, you have more say than 23 other member states. Conversely, as a Spanish individual, your representation in the European Parliament is lower than 23 other states because the number of MEP's is not directly proportional to population... but this isn't really the way to look at it anyway...

In simple terms, you are clearly anti-EU, do you think you identify politically more closely with someone who is anti-EU but British, or someone who is Spanish, but Pro-EU? That's more how the European Parliament works... votes aren't fundamentally based on nationalism, they're based on political affiliation. As an example, according to the 2019 EU elections Spain had the most MEP's within the Socialist and Democratic group, this means that within the European Parliament, Spain is a strong influence towards Social Democratic policy. If you don't like this, vote for an MEP/Europarlamentarios that represents your pro-independence, anti Social Democratic views.

Ultimately, if you don't agree with majority then you will find yourself in the position of being more affected by 'others', no matter if this as town, regional, national or international level.
 
fernandito
And I agree. I do.

What I mean, is that no spanish vet will ever happen, let alone when countries that actually run all new stuff in the form of norms and laws are precisley those more powerful like France and Germany, so we have no actual power to influence on those.

We're literally irrelevant if not everyone's jester, which is also obvious with the socialist goverment and representation we have, again, doing ridicule everywhere we go, and eventually making for my second point.
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Then elect a government or MEPs that will do, as the issues your complaining about are not EU ones, but Spanish ones.

If Spanish MEPs don't represent you the way you want then change them, as I an assure you that leaving isn't a magic fix.

Quite, quite the opposite.
 
Brexiteers and euroskeptics voted the UK out of the EU because they also don't like the idea of being 'controlled' or 'dictated to' by the EU, and yes, Brexit has at least delivered their key 'wants'.

Unfortunately, these very same people are exactly the ones who don't appreciate or even understand just how important the EU and its member states are to the UK, irrespective of how the EU itself might operate. And as such, the UK now faces a totally different relationship with the EU - one that is governed by legal commitments that are set in stone and non-negotiable from the outset, and just as onerous, if not considerably more so, than being inside the EU ever was.

One thing everyone in the UK didn't want, remainers and leavers, was so-called 'Soft Brexit' - where the UK ends up outside the EU but still having to adhere to EU law but with no further say in how those laws are made. Remainers, of course, wanted to stay inside and retain some say (e.g. a veto) over EU law because even outside the EU, EU law still deeply affects the UK.

This latter point has always been totally lost on Brexiteers. As such, they pushed for 'Hard Brexit' - "total independence from EU law", not stopping for a moment to realise that the reality is that the UK is dependent on the EU in very many ways, and that our future relationship will still be controlled by international laws and binding commitments, but this time they will be (and are) very heavily biased in favour of the EU and, thanks to Brexit, the UK has no control over at all.

-

One may argue that the EU is over-reaching, over-bearing and crushing the independence of member states, even big ones... and one might even be right to some extent. But, simply leaving the EU doesn't immediately free a country from the EU's gravitational pull/sphere of influence... paradoxically, Brexit has actually put the UK considerably more at the mercy of the 'good faith' of the EU, and has compelled us to commit permanently to disadvantageous terms and conditions, the consequences of which are already being felt keenly across the country. At least within the EU we had a veto and a seat at the table when it came to vital decision making with our biggest trading partner (and the largest democratic trading zone in the world), whereas now we are almost begging for the scraps being dropped from the table, even when it comes to how we can do trade within its own borders!
 
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Scaff
Then elect a government or MEPs that will do, as the issues your complaining about are not EU ones, but Spanish ones.

If Spanish MEPs don't represent you the way you want then change them, as I an assure you that leaving isn't a magic fix.

Quite, quite the opposite.
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And where did I imply otherwise, that we are the ones at fault?, Of course we're the ones at fault, don't need you to remind me that, but that doesn't mean many want to leave EU too, entitled one

Thing is that it happens only when the socialists are in charge, now worse with the communist and separatists of course. That's what maybe you need to be reminded of, too.
 
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