Britain - The Official Thread

[TRGTspecialist]

As the EU Referendum is over, have a new poll.

Might be a bit useless because it seems to have carried over the results from the referendum poll (the numbers are similar and it says I've voted even though I hadn't), and you can't change your vote.

Unless of course making a pointless poll about a pretty pointless issue was the joke?

 

[Famine]

Might be a bit useless because it seems to have carried over the results from the referendum poll (the numbers are similar and it says I've voted even though I hadn't), and you can't change your vote.

Unless of course making a pointless poll about a pretty pointless issue was the joke?

I removed the old poll and when I voted it was 1 Yes, 2 No...

 

[TRGTspecialist]

I removed the old poll and when I voted it was 1 Yes, 2 No...

I saw it 15 minutes after you made it and it was 14 Yes, 32 No - near identical to the Leave/Remain poll result, and I doubt that 40+ people would have voted in 15 minutes.

This is what it looks like to me now:

Definitely haven't touched the new poll, but my "vote" corresponds to my choice from the referendum one.

 

[Famine]

I've reset it again. Currently 0/1/0.

 

[PeterJB]

I'm gonna say yes. It's been blown up in to a way bigger issue than it is but I still don't think it's right.

 

[Dennisch]

I've reset it again. Currently 0/1/0.

Goddammit man, quit rigging it to get it in your favour!

Anyhew.

Fox hunting. Dressing up like a complete moron, with complementary blowhorn, to chase an animal that finds the animal for you.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Sorry to budge in. Many many many many years ago I had a heated discussion with an english friend about bullfights. He thought the whole thing barbaric. Then I asked what he thought about fox hunting. And he said something to the effect of "apples and oranges" or whatever you guys say about totally different issues. My reply was Yeah, we can't compare a bunch of men mounting horses following dogs following foxes in an open field to celebrate the kill of the smaller animal of them all, to one man, on foot or mounted on one horse, in an enclosed and tight arena, facing a +500kg beast that can be killed, but that can also kill.

 

[Lizard]

I don't massively care but if there was a referendum on it I would vote to keep the ban rather than abstain.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Sorry to budge in. Many many many many years ago I had a heated discussion with an english friend about bullfights. He thought the whole thing barbaric. Then I asked what he thought about fox hunting. And he said something to the effect of "apples and oranges" or whatever you guys say about totally different issues. My reply was Yeah, we can't compare a bunch of men mounting horses following dogs following foxes in an open field to celebrate the kill of the smaller animal of them all, to one man, on foot or mounted on one horse, in an enclosed and tight arena, facing a +500kg beast that can be killed, but that can also kill.

I'd tend to agree with your friend. Fox hunting is a throwback to how you would traditionally control local predator populations. It's testament to the fox that it has managed to outlive the bear, wolf and (most) the wildcats in the UK. The "sport" survives despite the affordability of rifle shooting, a more efficient form of controlling predator populations.

Bullfighting is purely for entertainment, and to my knowledge always has been. The idea that it's one man versus a bull is a misdirection too. The bull is weakened throughout the fight until it's suffering blood loss and exhaustion.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's testament to the fox that it has managed to outlive the bear, wolf and (most) the wildcats in the UK.

This morning my dustbins are similar testament to that fact. Bastard foxes.

The idea that it's one man versus a bull is a misdirection too. The bull is weekend throughout the fight until it's suffering blood loss and exhaustion.

I went to a bullfight once and it was appalling. I paid 5 Euros for a coke and my seat was so far back I couldn't even see the cow getting stabbed.*

*Old joke, I know

 

[Hun200kmh]

Ok, try to enter a closed circle on foot, try to weaken the bull and in the end try to kill it with a swordas he charges directly at you (Spain) or tame it with your bare hands with the help of a few select others - again as he charges directly at you (Portugal). Then tell me this wasn't you versus the bull (assuming you got out alive and able to speak).

And I'll leave it at that, this is the wrong thread for this anyway.

 

[Liquid]

Ok, try to enter a closed circle on foot, try to weaken the bull and in the end try to kill it with a swordas he charges directly at you (Spain) or tame it with your bare hands with the help of a few select others - again as he charges directly at you (Portugal). Then tell me this wasn't you versus the bull (assuming you got out alive and able to speak).

Is the bull there by choice?

Bull "fighting" is nothing more than bull-baiting and much like bear-baiting, wolf-baiting, badger-baiting, donkey-baiting, cockfighting and fox hunting, they are cruel blood sports. Other traditions like throwing goats off belltowers, pulling the heads of live geese, hanging greyhounds and Festa Pero Palo are equally barbaric and outdated.

@Famine Seeing as you brought the topic up, whether you care or not do you believe fox hunting should be permitted or prohibited?

 

[Famine]

@Famine Seeing as you brought the topic up, whether you care or not do you believe fox hunting should be permitted or prohibited?

I DON'T CARE!

 

[Dotini]

I'm going to guess fox hunting is a small, remaining vestige of the feudal practice of the forest and its game being reserved for the King, his lords and nobles.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm going to guess fox hunting is a small, remaining vestige of the feudal practice of the forest and its game being reserved for the King, his lords and nobles.

Pretty much. It's all the rural hooray henry's and wannabe hooray henrys. But there's also a huge following who support it because of the jobs it creates (usually in poor, rural areas) for dog handlers and other event support staff. It's one of those things, much like bull fighting in Spain and gun ownership in the US, that is so ingrained into the culture that no matter how stupid and antiquated it appears from the outside, you'll never be able to change people's minds over it.

 

[Obelisk]

As an American, I'm quite curious...Why is fox hunting a thing? Are they a pest in the UK?

 

[TheCracker]

As an American, I'm quite curious...Why is fox hunting a thing? Are they a pest in the UK?

They are if you're a free-range poultry farmer. Otherwise, not especially.

 

[Famine]

Why is fox hunting a thing?

It isn't! No-one cares!

Are they a pest in the UK?

Technically, yes. Foxes are an apex predator and, a bit like cats, they'll tend to kill for the sheer fun of it. This makes them a bit of a problem with small animal farming - they'll get into a hen coop to eat something, but kill everything. Same with ducks or other kinds of fowl (not so much geese). There's a few of them in the countryside but there's a lot of urban foxes too. They generally steal from bins, but they can be an issue for domestic pets and there's usually a story every year about a baby being attacked.

They're quite clever and fairly cat-like, which is why people get upset about the whole concept of hunting with hounds (which leads to a fox being ripped to shreds by dogs, like it rips chickens to shreds), but no-one seems quite as bothered by the various ways of executing other vermin, like rats which happens to be one most intelligent species we know of and which are also hunted by sending dogs after them...

 

[TheCracker]

but no-one seems quite as bothered by the various ways of executing other vermin, like rats which happens to be one most intelligent species we know of and which are also hunted by sending dogs after them...

Although to be fair, there's hardly the same level of glee, pomp and ceremony and certainly not the same level of overkill surrounding other forms of vermin-control as there is with fox hunting.

 

[Famine]

Although to be fair, there's hardly the same level of glee, pomp and ceremony and certainly not the same level of overkill surrounding other forms of vermin-control as there is with fox hunting.

I dunno. Look at the State Opening of Parliament. Glee, pomp, ceremony, overkill and vermin-control...

 

[TheCracker]

I dunno. Look at the State Opening of Parliament. Glee, pomp, ceremony, overkill and vermin-control...

I dunno. Not nearly enough vermin-control in Parliament for my liking.

 

[PeterJB]

Rats have pretty much no chance of going extinct either.

 

[Dotini]

In my area, we have foxes, rats and plenty of termites. And happily not too many cockroaches, scorpions and snakes.

 

[PeterJB]

The only remotely dangerous animal we have is the adder, assuming you're lucky enough to be one of the few people in the country to find one in the wild.

 

[Famine]

Rats have pretty much no chance of going extinct either.

Neither does the fox. There's nigh-on a quarter of a million of them - and the population is actively controlled through culls to keep them there, as they produce half a million cubs a year.

We control them by snares (which are awful, trapping the animal in a manner that allows it to thrash about for as long as it takes to be discovered, breaking limbs, causing infection and leaving them open to other predators; not to mention the fact they trap other animals too) and shooting (which wounds more often than kills, and is similarly torturous as a result).

I'm not sure why it's okay to send dogs in to tear apart the more intelligent rat, but not okay to do so with a fox. Or why it's not okay to kill a fox with dogs, but it's fine to do so with snares. Eventually.


But most of all I'm not sure why Labour makes a priority of banning it and the Conservatives make a priority of legalising it.

 

[Dotini]

But most of all I'm not sure why Labour makes a priority of banning it and the Conservatives make a priority of legalising it.

Because it's symbolic of a cultural conflict dating to feudal times?

 

[TheCracker]

Because it's symbolic of a cultural conflict dating to feudal times?

Because it's divisive and a voter winner.

 

[homeforsummer]

But there's also a huge following who support it because of the jobs it creates (usually in poor, rural areas)

Are areas in which fox hunting takes place typically poor? Are rural communities in general typically poor these days? I'd have thought virtually anything that revolves around the horsey set is probably fairly affluent, even if you're just shoeing the things.

I'm not sure why it's okay to send dogs in to tear apart the more intelligent rat, but not okay to do so with a fox. Or why it's not okay to kill a fox with dogs, but it's fine to do so with snares. Eventually.

I think @TheCracker covered this bit. Fox hunting strikes me as being much more of a sport than culling rats. Fox hunters aren't doing it simply to control populations, much as I'm sure they claim they are - they're doing it because they like dressing up like it's the 18th century and chasing an animal around the countryside until it's exhausted and ripped to bits by a pack of dogs. For fun, in other words, at least a definition of fun unrelated to those of us who aren't a bit loopy. That it's one way of keeping fox populations down is neither here nor there.

On a more political note, Theresa May almost certainly has more important things to be doing right now than offering soundbites on whether fox hunting should exist or not.

 

[TheCracker]

Are areas in which fox hunting takes place typically poor? Are rural communities in general typically poor these days? I'd have thought virtually anything that revolves around the horsey set is probably fairly affluent, even if you're just shoeing the things.

Well, rural areas are still a bit feudal aren't they. You have the land owners, who obviously have money, and those that work on that land for a living, who probably are not so wealthy. Of course you have those with second homes in the country who also have a few quid and those who live in affluent villages on the outskirts of bigger towns and cities that they commute into which muddies the water a bit.

On a more political note, Theresa May almost certainly has more important things to be doing right now than offering soundbites on whether fox hunting should exist or not.

As a committed Christian, Theresa May most certainly will not be changing a law that advocates cruelty to one of god's creatures. It would be appalling to think otherwise.

 

[Famine]

Fox hunting strikes me as being much more of a sport than culling rats. Fox hunters aren't doing it simply to control populations, much as I'm sure they claim they are - they're doing it because they like dressing up like it's the 18th century and chasing an animal around the countryside until it's exhausted and ripped to bits by a pack of dogs. For fun, in other words, at least a definition of fun unrelated to those of us who aren't a bit loopy. That it's one way of keeping fox populations down is neither here nor there.

Does it matter that some people make (or rather made) a sport out of it?

Sure, it's a bit of a grisly way to get your kicks, but I'm not sure that it matters what the process is so long as it's not any worse than other common processes and gets the same end result. Snares are awful (and kill the wrong creature a lot), shooting is hit and miss (in approximately that ratio) and also the worst thing in the history of ever because GUNS ARE EVIL (etc.). Hunting with hounds is no worse, as far as I can tell, and if someone wants to enjoy it I can't say I'm bothered.

I'd have thought virtually anything that revolves around the horsey set is probably fairly affluent, even if you're just shoeing the things.

The only way to make a small fortune with horses is to start with a large fortune.