Britain - The Official Thread

[PeterJB]

He also reportedly said "Kill all Muslims", though that sounds like a bit of a cliche.

 

[polysmut]

Am I right in thinking that terrorism is violent crime with a political aim?

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Am I right in thinking that terrorism is violent crime with a political aim?

Pretty much, yeah.

In other news, is 'ot.

 

[ECGadget]

Am I right in thinking that terrorism is violent crime with a political aim?

By definition in this country, I believe so yes. I have seen it used in other instances though, and then not used in some instances.


Also, another thing to note that my sleepy head did not pick up on. Police are still treating it as a terrorist incident. Given it happened last night, that would have been stepped down if it was merely an accident.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I have seen it used in other instances though, and then not used in some instances.

This springs to mind, though I don't know if it's what you were referring to:

 

[PeterJB]

As always of course there are plenty of unconfirmed rumours going around and "what we know so far" updates every ten minutes that say exactly the same thing. Literally all we know so far is that a man has been arrested in Finsbury Park after driving a truck into a group of Muslims who'd just left a prayer meeting. Who the man is, his motive, his allegiance (if any) and his background are as of yet unknown.

 

[polysmut]

Pretty much, yeah.

Then the label given to the crime depends on the motive?
If the guy who reportedly said he wanted to kill muslims acted because he hated muslims then it's a hate crime?
If he was seeking some sort of revenge for something else it's a straight-up murder?
If he wanted to affect political policies it's terrorism?
If it was an accident it's probably a traffic crime?

 

[Vegard]

If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck, walks like a duck. It's a duck.

"Things that try to look like things often do look more like things than things."

 

[ECGadget]

This springs to mind, though I don't know if it's what you were referring to:

View attachment 655024

Yes and no. Whilst that also does certainly happen I also meant that sometimes attacks based on a political motivation are not called terrorist attacks, and attacks that are not politically based are in general. The line of terrorism has been blurred and skewed and contorted so many times. I mean, what could even constitute a terrorist attack? What classes as political motivation? It becomes very tough to find the line.

 

[ECGadget]

Sorry for the double post, but I think this is important to note. And it looks like it is pretty clear cut that this was a terrorist attack and not an accident, which is what my thoughts were from what I saw.

The government's independent reviewer of terrorism legislation has said it is right for counter-terrorism police to be investigating the attack.

Max Hill talks about the difference between the attack in Finsbury Park and the three which preceded it, namely Westminster Bridge, Manchester Arena and London Bridge.

He said: "The difference is not between crime and terrorism, but between dead attackers who cannot stand trial as opposed to one who was taken into custody so we all await a charging decision and any trial thereafter.

"However, as has already been made clear by the Metropolitan Police and by the home secretary, this incident is being investigated by the counter terrorism command, and rightly so.

"If evidence proves that what happened last night amounted to the "use or threat of action…designed to influence…a section of the public…for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause"...then that is terrorism.

"Muslim worshippers leaving the mosque after prayers during the holy month of Ramadan are unquestionably part of the British public."

 

[Touring Mars]

The suspect has been named:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40332616

The local MP in Cardiff has urged people to not post on social media for fear of prejudicing a trial and/or being in contempt of court... the MP said that such comments 'could even lead to any prosecution or trial having to be abandoned'... hopefully none of his supporters, family or friends see that comment!

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's unclear if the van driver killed anybody (that doesn't change the intent). The crowd had gathered around a man who it seems was already having a heart attack.

 

[polysmut]

Brian Cant has died at 83.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-40335213

He was best known for presenting BBC's Play School for 21 years from 1964, and Play Away from 1971 to 1984.

His agent said he had been living with Parkinson's disease and died at Denville Hall, a retirement home often used by those in the entertainment industry.

I mostly remember him narrating The Organ Gang on This Morning With Richard Not Judy.

 

[Touring Mars]

Meanwhile, The Guardian (of all papers) have posted a blog piece which includes a photo of the suspect's house, complete with the name of the town and the street it is on, as well as the name (and age) of the suspect's partner and exact details of where she works...

 

[PeterJB]

Meanwhile, The Guardian (of all papers) have posted a blog piece which includes a photo of the suspect's house, complete with the name of the town and the street it is on, as well as the name (and age) of the suspect's partner and exact details of where she works...

Reverse terrorism?

 

[Dreadmed]

Meanwhile, The Guardian (of all papers) have posted a blog piece which includes a photo of the suspect's house, complete with the name of the town and the street it is on, as well as the name (and age) of the suspect's partner and exact details of where she works...

Which, ironically, reminds me of something I saw in their previous weekend magazine...

 

[Liquid]

Another neighbour said: ‘He’s always been a complete c*** but this is really surprising.’

Metro

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Then the label given to the crime depends on the motive?
If the guy who reportedly said he wanted to kill muslims acted because he hated muslims then it's a hate crime?
If he was seeking some sort of revenge for something else it's a straight-up murder?
If he wanted to affect political policies it's terrorism?
If it was an accident it's probably a traffic crime?

Yeah, that sounds about right. That said, as ECGadget astutely points out:

Yes and no. Whilst that also does certainly happen I also meant that sometimes attacks based on a political motivation are not called terrorist attacks, and attacks that are not politically based are in general. The line of terrorism has been blurred and skewed and contorted so many times. I mean, what could even constitute a terrorist attack? What classes as political motivation? It becomes very tough to find the line.

Basically, the media and public perception tend to quickly label high profile cases in a certain way, and that label tends to stick.

 

[DK]

If the Tories and the DUP reach an agreement, they could face legal action on the grounds that their deal violates the Good Friday Agreement.

 

[TenEightyOne]

If the Tories and the DUP reach an agreement, they could face legal action on the grounds that their deal violates the Good Friday Agreement.

It's a circular conundrum but I feel the Queen's Speech shouldn't be happening until a senior minister can present Her Maj with a parliamentary majority. It seems that won't be done until after the speech which can't (EDIT: shouldn't) happen until it's done. DivideByZero.jpg.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Huw Parkinson presents Theresa May and the Holy Grail.

 

[MeanElf]

EDIT: removed as already posted.

 

[UKMikey]

A bit of light-heartedness:

I think you've been treed by @prisonermonkeys.

 

[MeanElf]

I think you've been treed by @prisonermonkeys.

So I have - oops. I looked and swear I couldn't see anything other than a web-address link (which I didn't click.) Hi-ho: brain-melt.

 

[Touring Mars]

Nice job by The Times today...

 

[Lizard]

Also Tory and DUP deal is done finally. Only it involves giving £1bn extra to Northern Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...dup-reach-deal-to-prop-up-minority-government

There is no magic money tree, unless it is to keep your job. Then spend all the money you want.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Also Tory and DUP deal is done finally.

Why is it that every time I see "DUP", I read it as "DOOP"? Have I been watching too much Futurama again?

 

[Liquid]

The Secretary for CMS, Karen Bradley, has said that the Fox-Sky takeover should be referred to Ofcom for a full investigation with regards to market plurality but not with regards to broadcasting standards and practices.

The £11.7 billion bid raises concerns over media plurality that warrant further assessment

Note the should be. Her exact wording was that she 'is minded to'.

Currently live on Parliament TV.

 

[Touring Mars]

The Secretary for CMS, Karen Bradley, has said that the Fox-Sky takeover should be referred to Ofcom for a full investigation with regards to market plurality but not with regards to broadcasting standards and practices.



Note the should be. Her exact wording was that she 'is minded to'.

Currently live on Parliament TV.

The Guardian appear to have missed the subtlety of the wording and is reporting that is has been referred to Ofcom, though the BBC and elsewhere are not so convinced. At least where I live the phrase 'is minded to' typically means 'it's something I considered doing but didn't' (like "I was minded to go to the gym last night").

 

[UKMikey]

Meanwhile May and the Duppers appear to have been beaten by a small-c coalition of Labour MPs and Tory rebels in that the NHS will start to provide free abortions for NI women.

Nope, I read the story wrong and the government has changed their policy on their own accord. I wonder whether they're throwing their weight around with such a DUP-unfriendly policy shift in order to show their new coalition partners that they are the ones wearing the trousers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40438390