Britain - The Official Thread

[Dotini]

The consequences could (and probably will) be dire for Western-Russian relations.

Consequences have been dire for many years already. How could it get worse? And why should it?

 

[baldgye]

And why should it?

Agreed!!
I mean, after all, it’s only the attempted murder of two people and the actual murder of another with an illegal chemical weapon, used in an open and public environment, on British soil, by two Russian agents...

 

[Dennisch]

Agreed!!
I mean, after all, it’s only the attempted murder of two people and the actual murder of another with an illegal chemical weapon, used in an open and public environment, on British soil, by two Russian agents...

Do you remember when 298 people were shot out of the sky? Do you also remember the massive sanctions and terrible consequences of those sanctions?

This situation is nothing. Politics and economics go above all.

 

[baldgye]

Do you remember when 298 people were shot out of the sky? Do you also remember the massive sanctions and terrible consequences of those sanctions?

This situation is nothing. Politics and economics go above all.

Huh, I guess two negatives really do cancel each other out.

 

[Dennisch]

Huh, I guess two negatives really do cancel each other out.

It should be treated as an internal Russian situation. Having a show trial just for the sake of it is pointless. Russia won't hand over the perps, and if those perps feel some sort of guilt, they'll disappear into Vladimir's secret stash of bodies.

 

[baldgye]

It should be treated as an internal Russian situation. Having a show trial just for the sake of it is pointless. Russia won't hand over the perps, and if those perps feel some sort of guilt, they'll disappear into Vladimir's secret stash of bodies.

Oh ok, so the problem is solved after all!

 

[Dennisch]

Oh ok, so the problem is solved after all!

I don’t see how that changes anything?

 

[UKMikey]

The last time 270 people were bombed out of the sky on British soil Colonel Gaddafi accepted responsibility and paid compensation to the victims. If the Russians shot down Flight MH370 nobody has been able to pin it on them so I don't know where sanctions would come in, even if it happened in Britain.

 

[Dennisch]

The last time 270 people were bombed out of the sky on British soil Colonel Gaddafi accepted responsibility and paid compensation to the victims. If the Russians shot down Flight MH370 nobody has been able to pinit on them so I don't know where sanctions would come in, even if it happened in Britain.

Where it happened doesn't matter. Russia won't give up the suspects.

The Netherlands and Australia now officially lay the blame at Russia, to force them to cooperate in the investigation.

And Bellingcat goes a step further and names a suspect Oleg Ivannikov, also known as Orion and Andrey Ivanovich, a high ranking officer in the Russian army.

That makes it pretty much the same situation.

Country blames Russia. Nothing happens.

 

[baldgye]

Do you also remember the massive sanctions and terrible consequences of those sanctions?

To be fair, you have a point with this line. Silly sanctions, what did they ever do eh?

 

[UKMikey]

It's early days yet. It took Gaddafi five years to own up to Lockerbie. The NL and Australia only formally blamed Russia in May. Hardly identical situations.

 

[Dennisch]

To be fair, you have a point with this line. Silly sanctions, what did they ever do eh?

And for 2017 it's already back in the black numbers.

These sanctions do absolutely squat to Vladimir and friends. All they do is take money away from the common Russian.

Want to show your muscles? Stop importing valuable resources from Russia. But the West can't do that because we need that oil, gas, coal and all those other earth stuffies.

As I said. Europe needs Russia, Russia needs Europe. A trial will do nothing to change that. Sanctions for killing a couple of people will do even less. They'll probably kick out a couple of high ranking Russians. That will surely hurt the economy.

Edit.

A trial will be nothing more than a show trial for the prestige of British might and pride. Look at us, we can stand up against evil Uncle Vladi. And the next day, British politicians are negotiating for cheaper deals on Vladi's produce.

 

[baldgye]

These sanctions do absolutely squat to Vladimir and friends.

Man the world is so much simpler after you've explained it all to me, you should be a diplomat!

 

[Dennisch]

Man the world is so much simpler after you've explained it all to me, you should be a diplomat!

Yes. Then I can go play the absolute ****tard in someone's country and they can do **** about it!

 

[baldgye]

A trial will be nothing more than a show trial for the prestige of British might and pride. Look at us, we can stand up against evil Uncle Vladi. And the next day, British politicians are negotiating for cheaper deals on Vladi's produce.

Given your amazing incites into international politics, if we are BUYING things from a nation that we are making economically weaker... doesn't that then benefit us because we can BUY those things for cheaper?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm clearly not as switched on as you

 

[Dennisch]

Given your amazing incites into international politics, if we are BUYING things from a nation that we are making economically weaker... doesn't that then benefit us because we can BUY those things for cheaper?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm clearly not as switched on as you

That would be the ideal case. But rarely that is the outcome.

 

[baldgye]

That would be the ideal case. But rarely that is the outcome.

True, I guess because sanctions don't actually affect those who set the prices, or the supply it's a fools errand...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Given your amazing incites into international politics, if we are BUYING things from a nation that we are making economically weaker... doesn't that then benefit us because we can BUY those things for cheaper?

Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm clearly not as switched on as you

Buying commodities on the international market usually means at the international price. That's how global trade works. The price of oil and gas from Russia doesn't change because you don't ship them biscuits and pull your embassy staff out.

 

[Dennisch]

True, I guess because sanctions don't actually affect those who set the prices, or the supply it's a fools errand...

If in the summer sanctions are put in place on Russian tomatoes, in the winter the price for gas goes up because somewhere in the autumn something happens and the Russians find it harder to mine the stuff. Which then suddenly disappears when the sanctions end.

 

[baldgye]

If in the summer sanctions are put in place on Russian tomatoes, in the winter the price for gas goes up because somewhere in the autumn something happens and the Russians find it harder to mine the stuff. Which then suddenly disappears when the sanctions end.

So we need to sanction, maybe bread AND tomatoes... then they'd have no sandwiches?

 

[Lizard]

So Russia have spies in our country. This is news to people?
We have spies in Russia no doubt.


Have to say it must be the most stressful job in the world though.

 

[Dennisch]

So we need to sanction, maybe bread AND tomatoes... then they'd have no sandwiches?

You're on to something.

 

[baldgye]

You're on to something.

But, like you said, it'll all be for nothing because sanctions don't do anything to prevent the TV Show Putin and Friends from airing... shame

 

[Johnnypenso]

But, like you said, it'll all be for nothing because sanctions don't do anything to prevent the TV Show Putin and Friends from airing... shame

Instead of flippant answers, why don't you tell us what sanctions you would impose that would have an effect on the Russian economy?

 

[UKMikey]

So Russia have spies in our country. This is news to people?

I think this is being treated differently from the Litvinenko case because Skripal's daughter and the two citizens who sprayed themselves with perfume they found in the street are seen as relative non-combatants.

 

[Lizard]

I think this is being treated differently from the Litvinenko case because Skripal's daughter and the two citizens who sprayed themselves with perfume they found in the street are seen as relative non-combatants.

The normal people were a mistake and a failed mission, I am sure of it. There is no reason Putin would want to off a random drug addict.

 

[BobK]

To be fair, you have a point with this line. Silly sanctions, what did they ever do eh?

Last time I checked the Russians were still in the Crimea.

 

[baldgye]

Last time I checked the Russians were still in the Crimea.

Sorry, I used the word; ‘sanction’, not the phrase ‘declare war’

 

[BobK]

Sorry, I used the word; ‘sanction’, not the phrase ‘declare war’

Given that the article you cited claimed that sanctions worked, I just thought I'd point out that no, they didn't, not with respect to the motivation for the sanctions.

I'm not sure what your using "sanctions" instead of "declare war" has to do with anything. You mean the West should have declared war instead of imposing sanctions?

 

[baldgye]

Given that the article you cited claimed that sanctions worked, I just thought I'd point out that no, they didn't, not with respect to the motivation for the sanctions.

I'm not sure what your using "sanctions" instead of "declare war" has to do with anything. You mean the West should have declared war instead of imposing sanctions?

How would economical sanctions physically remove an invading army from another nation?

You’d have to physically remove them... which would mean going to war with Russia...