Britain - The Official Thread

[Johnnypenso]

How would economical sanctions physically remove an invading army from another nation?

You’d have to physically remove them... which would mean going to war with Russia...

Give them a financial incentive. Stop buying their oil and gas. Money talks.

 

[Rage Racer]

Glad you continue to find the murder of an innocent woman and the attempted murder of two others so amusing.

Not the murder but the way how the UK government 'investigates' it.

The British Prime Minister announced in the House of Commons today that the two suspects are officers from the Russian military intelligence service, the GRU. There's no chance of them being brought to justice, which probably explains how they could afford to be so brazen about it.

Of course there's no chance to bring them to justice when Britain doesn't present the fingerprints of the suspects. There are thousands of Alexander Petrovs in Russia. Which one do you need?

First, Mrs. May wants answers from Russia just after the incident, but then Britain tells to go away and shut up, and refuses to cooperate. Well, good luck.

Give them a financial incentive. Stop buying their oil and gas. Money talks.

And what would Europe heat itself with? Farts?
It's not like your leaders care about Ukraine and Crimea THAT much. Otherwise, they would have done it 4 years ago, if it was that easy.

And yeah, talking about gas. The construction of Nord Stream 2 (a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany) has started in Finland. Despite of some countries (including Poland, Ukraine (that wants Russian gas to transit through its territory despite of having a 'war' with Russia) and, unsurprisingly, USA) opposing it. That says a lot about how Western Europe tries to 'isolate' Russia.

There is an opinion that this Skripals story has something to do with Uncle Sam's attempts to frustrate this project. Simply - when you have a deal with Russia, you deal with evil, bloody, ex-KGB dictator Putin who poisons random people in Britain (and can do so anywhere) with an incredibly toxic nerve agent. A literal new Hitler.

As for the sanctions - if you don't remember, they were already imposed just after the incident (you don't need any investigation when blaming Russia, do you?). When the US want sanctions, they'll impose them anytime they want, and will find an appropriate reason (like, invent the 'US elections meddling'). Even if RF left Crimea and Syria, I'm sure that the sanctions wouldn't be lifted. The USA would demand Russia to give the Kuril islands to Japan, and impose more sanctions for hacking a power station in Tajikistan. Once you show the weakness, you'll be pressured to the end. That's how politics work.

 

[baldgye]

There are thousands of Alexander Petrovs in Russia. Which one do you need?

These ones perhaps?

And what would Europe heat itself with?

Given that this is the U.K. thread, we’d probably be a-ok without Russian gas. That said, Europe isn’t that dependent on Russia.

 

[Johnnypenso]

And what would Europe heat itself with? Farts?
It's not like your leaders care about Ukraine and Crimea THAT much. Otherwise, they would have done it 4 years ago, if it was that easy.

And yeah, talking about gas. The construction of Nord Stream 2 (a gas pipeline from Russia to Germany) has started in Finland. Despite of some countries (including Poland, Ukraine (that wants Russian gas to transit through its territory despite of having a 'war' with Russia) and, unsurprisingly, USA) opposing it. That says a lot about how Western Europe tries to 'isolate' Russia.

There is an opinion that this Skripals story has something to do with Uncle Sam's attempts to frustrate this project. Simply - when you have a deal with Russia, you deal with evil, bloody, ex-KGB dictator Putin who poisons random people in Britain (and can do so anywhere) with an incredibly toxic nerve agent. A literal new Hitler.

As for the sanctions - if you don't remember, they were already imposed just after the incident (you don't need any investigation when blaming Russia, do you?). When the US want sanctions, they'll impose them anytime they want, and will find an appropriate reason (like, invent the 'US elections meddling'). Even if RF left Crimea and Syria, I'm sure that the sanctions wouldn't be lifted. The USA would demand Russia to give the Kuril islands to Japan, and impose more sanctions for hacking a power station in Tajikistan. Once you show the weakness, you'll be pressured to the end. That's how politics work.

If we're talking about my farts, that might be a possibility. I've been eating a ton of cabbage lately. My point was, if you really want to impose some kind of sanctions that will work on Russia you have to hit them in the pocketbook in a major way. Not buying their oil and gas would do that but as you point out, the EU is locked into that relationship now in a big way and it's not likely to happen. You don't need to go to war as was suggested above, but you do have to make certain alternatives very expensive.

 

[TenEightyOne]

And what would Europe heat itself with? Farts?

Trumps?

 

[Dotini]

And what would Europe heat itself with? Farts?

A cloak of virtue and sanctimony.

 

[BobK]

How would economical sanctions physically remove an invading army from another nation?

You’d have to physically remove them... which would mean going to war with Russia...

I haven't a clue. You're the one who claimed the sanctions were "working", not me. If the sanctions are working, why are the Russians still there?

Seems to me that if they're still there, the sanctions aren't really working.

 

[baldgye]

I haven't a clue. You're the one who claimed the sanctions were "working", not me. If the sanctions are working, why are the Russians still there?

Seems to me that if they're still there, the sanctions aren't really working.

I’m the one who claimed?
I linked a new article that sited the recession Russia faced after the sanctions were imposed and the then rise in level of poverty across the nation...


Me and my random claims eh?

 

[Lizard]

Another day, another stupid thing Boris has done.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7196421/boris-johnson-cheating-accusations-from-wife/

This time he cheated on his wife and got kicked out the house, it seems.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Another day, another stupid thing Boris has done.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7196421/boris-johnson-cheating-accusations-from-wife/

This time he cheated on his wife and got kicked out the house, it seems.

I read that he'd ****ed a whole country.

 

[baldgye]

Another day, another stupid thing Boris has done.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7196421/boris-johnson-cheating-accusations-from-wife/

This time he cheated on his wife and got kicked out the house, it seems.

Ha this is how Apple News presented the story to me;

 

[Touring Mars]

Ha this is how Apple News presented the story to me;

 

[Touring Mars]

Russia takes trolling to an entirely new level of absurdity.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...erview-with-skripal-salisbury-attack-suspects

I reckon this story is just so ridiculous, even Russian trolls ought to be embarrassed by it.

 

[jake2013guy]

Meanwhile.
https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/all-media/uk-mass-surveillance-ruled-unlawful-in-landmark-judgment/

Under the guise of counter-terrorism, the UK has adopted the most authoritarian surveillance regime of any Western state, corroding democracy itself and the rights of the British public. This judgment is a vital step towards protecting millions of law-abiding citizens from unjustified intrusion. However, since the new Investigatory Powers Act arguably poses an ever greater threat to civil liberties, our work is far from over.

 

[Dotini]

Giving a computer to a Russian is like giving a shotgun to a monkey. Give a computer to an Englishman and he requires a shepherd.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Katie Hopkins files IVA. Katie Hopkins has strong feelings about people in debt.

I suck at Twitter

 

[HenrySwanson]

Katie Hopkins files IVA. Katie Hopkins has strong feelings about people in debt.

Red CodeX Concepts (@CodeRedShell) Tweeted:

@KTHopkins How's bankcruptcy avoidance going?


I suck at Twitter

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/katie-hopkins-house-exeter-st-leonards-a8171051.html

Fundraising page set up to buy Katie Hopkins' house and give it to asylum seekers

 

[baldgye]

This is just sad, though... I guess it could be worse

Four in 10 think British culture is undermined by multiculturalism

A large minority of people in the UK believe multiculturalism has undermined British culture and that migrants do not properly integrate, according to some of the broadest research into the population’s attitudes to immigration.

*I don't know why it split them, or why I can't have that one lot in a single quote

 

[BobK]

This is just sad, though... I guess it could be worse

Why do you feel that's sad?

 

[baldgye]

Why do you feel that's sad?

half the population wants to see a reduction in the numbers of low-skilled workers coming into Britain from the EU.

and everything @TenEightyOne said

 

[TenEightyOne]

Why do you feel that's sad?

Because Britain was built on multiculturalism. One of our national dishes is Chicken Tikka Masala, over the last 2,000 years immigration has built our cities and industries, and we speak 11 indigenous languages across the four (or more, to some) countries. The idea that there is one "British Culture" is bollocks and seems to be mostly enforced by people who just want everybody to like what they like. Those same people (a hopeless generalisation, I know) seem to think that the EU has something to do with the UK government failing to adopt EU migration controls for all these years or choosing red passports instead of blue ones.

Frankly I like our differences and I like the fact that the majority of people don't actually give a toss what language people speak, what they do in their church (the few that go), what they do in their bedrooms or how they vote. As long as they indicate at junctions, keep the noise down after 10pm and are prepared to discuss the weather/football/which-junction-they-come-off-the-M1-at then everything's fine.

 

[Sprite]

Because Britain was built on multiculturalism. One of our national dishes is Chicken Tikka Masala, over the last 2,000 years immigration has built our cities and industries, and we speak 11 indigenous languages across the four (or more, to some) countries. The idea that there is one "British Culture" is bollocks and seems to be mostly enforced by people who just want everybody to like what they like. Those same people (a hopeless generalisation, I know) seem to think that the EU has something to do with the UK government failing to adopt EU migration controls for all these years or choosing red passports instead of blue ones.

Frankly I like our differences and I like the fact that the majority of people don't actually give a toss what language people speak, what they do in their church (the few that go), what they do in their bedrooms or how they vote. As long as they indicate at junctions, keep the noise down after 10pm and are prepared to discuss the weather/football/which-junction-they-come-off-the-M1-at then everything's fine.

Exactly.

If it wasn't for immigration I wouldn't be here. Both my parents families can be traced back to immigration. Every Human Being has the rite to have a happy, safe and peaceful life.

 

[Lizard]

Considering I spend a lot of my time in the foreign culture quarters of cities I quite like the multiculturalism.

 

[HenrySwanson]

While it's true to say modern Britain has been built on multiculturalism, I think it's a stretch to say Britain outright was. This is argued brilliantly by Douglas Murray in The Strange Death of Europe, but even leftist outlets admit that international multiculturalism is a recent thing:

https://thesocialhistorian.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/the-real-history-of-multicultural-britain/

 

[Biggles]

While it's true to say modern Britain has been built on multiculturalism, I think it's a stretch to say Britain outright was. This is argued brilliantly by Douglas Murray in The Strange Death of Europe, but even leftist outlets admit that international multiculturalism is a recent thing:

https://thesocialhistorian.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/the-real-history-of-multicultural-britain/

Well, even the historic culture of Britain was based on multiculturalism - Celts, Romans, Saxons, Angles, Danes, Normans, the French, the Dutch - they all played a part in forming the culture (& language). That culture (& language) was then exported all over the globe ... & then was re-imported in recent decades by waves of new immigration. My mother, Slovenian born, came to England via Canada & Switzerland. She assimilated to the point of even becoming an avid cricket fan!

 

[TenEightyOne]

While it's true to say modern Britain has been built on multiculturalism, I think it's a stretch to say Britain outright was. This is argued brilliantly by Douglas Murray in The Strange Death of Europe, but even leftist outlets admit that international multiculturalism is a recent thing:

https://thesocialhistorian.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/the-real-history-of-multicultural-britain/

There are a number of problems with that article - the largest being that it goes from multiculturalism to "how many blacks were there in Tudor Britain?". That's an utterly flawed argument because much of the immigration (and emigration) was based around the military and trade networks with Europe (varying places at varying times of course). People as working individuals were much more likely to travel from country to country than they are now, the rivers and seas were the motorways of their day.

The article also uses the "chalk and cheese" story to illustrate that communities were insular... that was certainly true of settlement areas that sat inland within the main road networks but certainly not true of coastal towns, and most definitely not true of cities (where the biggest trade markets were and therefore the greatest amount of movement and growth).

 

[baldgye]

She assimilated to the point of even becoming an avid cricket fan!

I'm so sorry


@HenrySwanson sorry I couldn't actually give you a proper reply before. I typed out a reply like several times, but it was a confused mess of a post that didn't make much sense. Hence my rather meaningless quote.

 

[ExigeEvan]

While it's true to say modern Britain has been built on multiculturalism, I think it's a stretch to say Britain outright was. This is argued brilliantly by Douglas Murray in The Strange Death of Europe, but even leftist outlets admit that international multiculturalism is a recent thing:

https://thesocialhistorian.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/the-real-history-of-multicultural-britain/

Like, how recent? Like post-Windrush recent? Post-Empire recent? Post-1066 recent? Post-Celtic-Roman recent?

I think there's an issue in the UK of some cultures being very insular and not properly integrating. However, these go far beyond basic concepts of language and relogion, and more often are linked to how these cultures came to the UK in the first place IMO.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Like, how recent? Like post-Windrush recent? Post-Empire recent? Post-1066 recent? Post-Celtic-Roman recent?

I think there's an issue in the UK of some cultures being very insular and not properly integrating. However, these go far beyond basic concepts of language and relogion, and more often are linked to how these cultures came to the UK in the first place IMO.

Post Windrush.

Britain before had remained fairly static in terms of immigration for centuries before that. Even the Norman conquest only led to 5% actually being Norman in England. If Britain was so multicultural before the second world war, why did a 1968 Gallup poll find that 83% of people thought contemporary controls on immigration were not strict enough?

--------

In other news a fairly big report has come out about immigration to the UK and its effects, and it won't make easy reading for Kippers but sure to give @baldgye some comfort:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-much-needed-antidote-to-dog-whistle-politics

Immigration report is much-needed antidote to dog-whistle politics

 

[baldgye]

In other news a fairly big report has come out about immigration to the UK and its effects, and it won't make easy reading for Kippers but sure to give @baldgye some comfort:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-much-needed-antidote-to-dog-whistle-politics

Immigration report is much-needed antidote to dog-whistle politics

The 140-page report, commissioned by the former home secretary Amber Rudd, will put paid to the notion that European Economic Area (EEA) migrants drive wages down, lead to an increase in crime, bleed the social welfare system dry and steal the jobs of Britons

The idea of EU migrants being bad is akin to the other false notion that we live in a more dangerous period now, than we did in the 60s and 70s.
It's nice to see it presented with research but the problem isn't the reality or the facts, its the fact that people either don't believe this or choose to remain ignorant.