Britain - The Official Thread

[baldgye]

I was being entirely tongue in cheek of course by quoting a famous french thinker in a British thread, but I actually think the point stands.

In 3 successive general elections the UK Public has voted Conservative in Democratic elections, they have lapped up Boris' whiff waff style comments in the past and he has become "good ol' boris" when the reality is much more sinister, and they also voted the leave the EU largely off the back of his campaign.

Is it ******** that he is soon to become UK Prime minister? Yes it is. Was it entirely out of the realms of possibility when people voted Tory 2 years ago? No it wasn't.

The bigger question of course is the media, Boris has been given a free ride through the British media, however, if a person isnt questioning enough (for example, who allows the phrase "the goal of all conservatives is to lower taxes and increase public services" to go unchallenged?) and they then vote for their parties, then yes, the UK deserves its leaders, and the UK deserves to exit the EU.

Do I like it no? Do I have friends that are really going to suffer? Yes, Did they vote leave, yes? Did they vote Tory? Yes.

The first of those elections was a hung parliament, of which we got a pretty good coalition of Liberal Dems and Tories. The second of those elections where won by David Cameron in the face of zero meaningful opposition from Labour or the Lib Dems (sound familiar) and in the third election no one party won by majority and May had to literally buy out the DUP, something I still don't understand was legal to do... and she managed to last, half of her term?

Of course, in between the last two leaders, we've had one of the most divisive single issue vote in the counties democratic history that no party has been able to actually come up with a solution to 'deal' with.


So I'm not really sure anything really stands, and while the writing has been on the wall, the speed at which the politics in this country has gone to total **** is astounding.

 

[MatskiMonk]

In 3 successive general elections the UK Public has voted Conservative in Democratic elections, they have lapped up Boris' whiff waff style comments in the past and he has become "good ol' boris" when the reality is much more sinister, and they also voted the leave the EU largely off the back of his campaign.

Wiff Waff! Ah... I do like old Bozza. He'd make a greaaaaat character in classic British comedy.

I don't disagree with the crux of your points, but I'd add... we barely voted Conversative, by which I mean, the majority of people that voted did not want a Conservative government. Of the 3 term period in question 138.7 million votes could be cast in GE's. Only 35.7 million votes went to the Conservatives in that time, that means 74.2% of the electorate do not want a Conservative government.

 

[drummingcat]

The first of those elections was a hung parliament, of which we got a pretty good coalition of Liberal Dems and Tories. The second of those elections where won by David Cameron in the face of zero meaningful opposition from Labour or the Lib Dems (sound familiar) and in the third election no one party won by majority and May had to literally buy out the DUP, something I still don't understand was legal to do... and she managed to last, half of her term?

Of course, in between the last two leaders, we've had one of the most divisive single issue vote in the counties democratic history that no party has been able to actually come up with a solution to 'deal' with.


So I'm not really sure anything really stands, and while the writing has been on the wall, the speed at which the politics in this country has gone to total **** is astounding.

But people by and large are absolute idiots. Politics has gone completely to **** in the UK, but the public by en large have voted it in, I genuinely think things may have been different had the 2011 referendum went differently, but only 42% of voters turned out. And representative democracy is exactly that, there are always going to be people that voted for the losers, and we are talking about the populace as a whole. And there was a hugely credible alternative at the last general election, but the main stream media did such a hatchet job on him, thats why I think we need an independent regulator. But the public have a duty to at least notice the bias and not allowed themselves to be swayed by the opinions of the Daily Mail editor.

I try to avoid a large portion of Facebook nowadays due to the "U Ok Hun" style attention seeking, but there are a few characters that appear on my timeline, that I look on with sheer desperation and i keep in there as it serves to inform me as to why people act the way they do.

I am as liberal as they come, but I an increasingly finding it difficult to have any sympathy to read someone one day moaning that a parking space costs more per hour than she earns per hour, then follows it up with "I am never voting for the Corbin, terrorist sympathizer" alongside a doctored picture of Corbyn attending a funeral he never went to, then profess they will vote Tory. Then for weeks constantly moan that the government never does anything for them and its all for the rich, then I guess those of the people that deserve what they get. Its up to the sane people to try and convince them otherwise and if we cant/ dont do that then with the FPTP system in the UK, we are going to get this.

 

[baldgye]

But people by and large are absolute idiots. Politics has gone completely to **** in the UK, but the public by en large have voted it in, I genuinely think things may have been different had the 2011 referendum went differently, but only 42% of voters turned out. And representative democracy is exactly that, there are always going to be people that voted for the losers, and we are talking about the populace as a whole. And there was a hugely credible alternative at the last general election, but the main stream media did such a hatchet job on him, thats why I think we need an independent regulator. But the public have a duty to at least notice the bias and not allowed themselves to be swayed by the opinions of the Daily Mail editor.

If you're only talking about the Referendum, then democracy failed in that instance because one side was found to have broken election law to a degree never seen before in British politics. The only reason it hasn't been thrown out is because of the sheer ineptitude of British politicians and the power of the people who would benefit from Brexit/no-deal happening.

 

[drummingcat]

If you're only talking about the Referendum, then democracy failed in that instance because one side was found to have broken election law to a degree never seen before in British politics. The only reason it hasn't been thrown out is because of the sheer ineptitude of British politicians and the power of the people who would benefit from Brexit/no-deal happening.

No I mean the 2011 one about Alternative Voting, which only 42% turned out for.

Theres a general consensus that politics is broken in the UK, but really could AV be any worse? Still a source of amazement to me that turnout.

 

[baldgye]

No I mean the 2011 one about Alternative Voting, which only 42% turned out for.

Theres a general consensus that politics is broken in the UK, but really could AV be any worse? Still a source of amazement to me that turnout.

The problem with British politics isn't that the voting system is bad, its that the people that are put forward for election are broken, corrupt and the parties are so desperate to be as central as possible they've lost any resemblance to the people they're supposed to be representing.

 

[Dotini]

The problem with British politics isn't that the voting system is bad, its that the people that are put forward for election are broken, corrupt and the parties are so desperate to be as central as possible they've lost any resemblance to the people they're supposed to be representing.

It seems clear the best and brightest are not going into politics or public service. Maybe they never did? Probably they are going into business, finance and commerce in order to make their royal fortune. And at the end of the day, who's to say this isn't the best of all possible worlds? Freedom and democracy are what you make of it. And this is what you have done.

 

[drummingcat]

The problem with British politics isn't that the voting system is bad, its that the people that are put forward for election are broken, corrupt and the parties are so desperate to be as central as possible they've lost any resemblance to the people they're supposed to be representing.

I think its simpler than that mate, the problem with British Politics is Eton!

 

[MatskiMonk]

But the public have a duty to at least notice the bias and not allowed themselves to be swayed by the opinions of the Daily Mail editor.

The public also needs to be better educated on how our system of government works. It should be taught in schools as a bare minimum.

Theres a general consensus that politics is broken in the UK, but really could AV be any worse? Still a source of amazement to me that turnout

... and this is why voting should be mandatory.

 

[UKMikey]

And my alternative would be to firstly instate an independent media watchdog who forces impartiality and objective and thorough robust reporting for all forms of media. I would make it law for social media companies to better police its political content, and make it a criminal offence for any politicians whether prospective or in office to lie, with a penalty of 5 years in jail.

Then I would be happier with democracy.

There's already an IPSO. You would be better off toughening up the existing watchdog. Not that newspaper owners opposed to not lying would use their organs to convince Joe Bloggs that media watchdogs are bad.

 

[drummingcat]

There's already an IPSO. You would be better off toughening up the existing watchdog. Not that newspaper owners opposed to not lying would use their organs to convince Joe Bloggs that media watchdogs are bad.

IPSO are funded by a company where the Editorial Legal Director of the Times and the Vice chairman of the Telegraph are board members.

We dont stand a chance!

 

[Touring Mars]

The third round of the Conservative party leadership contest has just taken place - there's no cut off in terms of number of votes needed, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated. Here's the results:

Michael Gove: 51
Jeremy Hunt: 54
Sajid Javid: 38
Boris Johnson: 143
Rory Stewart: 27

Total votes cast: 313

Rory Stewart is out

The next vote(s) will be held tomorrow.

Boris Johnson scores the same as three remaining candidates combined. I reckon Javid will now pull out and leave the vote tomorrow as a straight choice between Gove and Hunt to face Johnson in the final two. But let's face it, Johnson has won it already.

 

[HenrySwanson]

The third round of the Conservative party leadership contest has just taken place - there's no cut off in terms of number of votes needed, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated. Here's the results:

Michael Gove: 51
Jeremy Hunt: 54
Sajid Javid: 38
Boris Johnson: 143
Rory Stewart: 27

Total votes cast: 313

Rory Stewart is out

The next vote(s) will be held tomorrow.

Boris Johnson scores the same as three remaining candidates combined. I reckon Javid will now pull out and leave the vote tomorrow as a straight choice between Gove and Hunt to face Johnson in the final two. But let's face it, Johnson has won it already.

I think his premiership is going to end in either a GE or second referendum, which he'll blame on Europe. He's already wavering on the 31 October pledge and he isn't even the leader yet!

 

[baldgye]

The third round of the Conservative party leadership contest has just taken place - there's no cut off in terms of number of votes needed, the candidate with the fewest votes is eliminated. Here's the results:

Michael Gove: 51
Jeremy Hunt: 54
Sajid Javid: 38
Boris Johnson: 143
Rory Stewart: 27

Total votes cast: 313

Rory Stewart is out

The next vote(s) will be held tomorrow.

Boris Johnson scores the same as three remaining candidates combined. I reckon Javid will now pull out and leave the vote tomorrow as a straight choice between Gove and Hunt to face Johnson in the final two. But let's face it, Johnson has won it already.

 

[Famine]

Ahh, the ever-useless Turley. Very surprised she didn't try to shoehorn something in about the steelworks closing that she expended so little effort on avoiding (after being parachuted into the North-East in 2013, having never set foot here since her birth in 1978) so she could spend the next two parliaments complaining about Tories. Amusingly she also quit Labour's shadow cabinet because of Corbyn, and supported anyone but him ("out of touch with reality") in the subsequent leadership election until he won and then tried to get our vote for him in 2017.

At least we can rely on her to start two consecutive sentences with "So"...

... and she voted against the May Deal on all three occasions, so she should be happy there's no Conservative left supporting it. She also voted in favour of the Referendum and to trigger Article 50.

 

[Touring Mars]

He's already wavering on the 31 October pledge and he isn't even the leader yet!

Quite. One of his supporters in the party just said on live TV "Boris is committed to taking us out of the EU on the 31st October, no ifs, no buts, but..." and then went on to explain how it might be a bit later than that.

 

[baldgye]

Ahh, the ever-useless Turley. Very surprised she didn't try to shoehorn something in about the steelworks closing that she expended so little effort on avoiding (after being parachuted into the North-East in 2013, having never set foot here since her birth in 1978) so she could spend the next two parliaments complaining about Tories. Amusingly she also quit Labour's shadow cabinet because of Corbyn, and supported anyone but him ("out of touch with reality") in the subsequent leadership election until he won and then tried to get our vote for him in 2017.

At least we can rely on her to start two consecutive sentences with "So"...

... and she voted against the May Deal on all three occasions, so she should be happy there's no Conservative left supporting it. She also voted in favour of the Referendum and to trigger Article 50.

I mean, that’s fine but what she’s said is still accurate.
We’re heading for a Bojo PM who wants to hard cut from the EU and lessen taxes on himself and his rich mates...

 

[baldgye]

Guys! I found some good news!!!


https://news.sky.com/story/porn-blo...ter-government-climbdown-sky-sources-11745231

 

[Touring Mars]

The fourth round of the Conservative Party leadership contest has just taken place, and here are the results:

Michael Gove: 61
Jeremy Hunt: 59
Sajid Javid: 34
Boris Johnson: 157

Total votes cast: 313
Spoiled papers: 2

Sajid Javid is out.

The final vote to decide the final two will happen this evening.

Boris Johnson wins an absolutely majority for the first time. Michael Gove has taken 2nd place for the first time, however the suspicion is that some Johnson supporters will now back Jeremy Hunt in order to ensure that Gove is eliminated.

 

[UKMikey]

IPSO are funded by a company where the Editorial Legal Director of the Times and the Vice chairman of the Telegraph are board members.

We dont stand a chance!

I saw a very entertaining interview with John Cleese in which he publicises this graph.

 

[Touring Mars]

Here we go again... the fifth round of the Conservative Party leadership contest has just concluded, and here's the results:

Michael Gove: 75
Jeremy Hunt: 77
Boris Johnson: 160

Total votes cast: 313
Spoiled votes: 1

This means that Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt will now fight it out for the leadership of the Conservative Party and for the office of Prime Minister of the UK.

Hunt is less of a 'hard' Brexiteer than Gove and thus the difference between Hunt and Johnson is wider than if it had been Gove v Johnson. The Johnson campaign will be pleased that they are not facing Michael Gove, since Gove is a far better debater and knows Johnson's weaknesses better than perhaps Hunt does... Hunt it also less clear cut on Brexit than either Gove or Johnson, and is seen by many as 'Theresa May in trousers'. He voted Remain and has previously described a No Deal Brexit as 'political suicide'.

The two-way run off will last a whole month () and the result will be decided by Conservative Party members who will vote for their preferred leader... a month is a long time in politics and one can only hope that it gives Boris Johnson enough rope to kill off his own chances, but he is by far the most popular candidate at the moment, and thus his opponent will have their work cut out to defeat him on the 22nd of July.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'm utterly baffled as well.

 

[HenrySwanson]

I'd swear if it was allowed by the AUP

 

[Famine]

Anyone remember three years ago when Gove shanked Boris and threw him under the bus and everyone was laughing at how a Muppet version of a snail had outmanoeuvred Boris and I said that it may look like that but perhaps Gove was blinded by his ambition and Boris could read the lay of the land, knew it was a poisoned chalice and was letting the opportunity go for now so he could take the reins at a better time?

I remember.

 

[Touring Mars]

Anyone remember three years ago when Gove shanked Boris and threw him under the bus and everyone was laughing at how a Muppet version of a snail had outmanoeuvred Boris and I said that it may look like that but perhaps Gove was blinded by his ambition and Boris could read the lay of the land, knew it was a poisoned chalice and was letting the opportunity go for now so he could take the reins at a better time?

I remember.

I reckon that Boris has simply won by sheer force of personality thus far, but that he had better have some good ideas what to do otherwise he's going to be found out very fast.

If the Premiership of the UK was a poison chalice three years ago, it is now more poisonous than a GRU officer's perfume cabinet.

 

[baldgye]

I reckon that Boris has simply won by sheer force of personality thus far, but that he had better have some good ideas what to do otherwise he's going to be found out very fast.

If the Premiership of the UK was a poison chalice three years ago, it is now more poisonous than a GRU officer's perfume cabinet.

He wont care, even to be PM for a week will bolster his self importance and value to sell himself to what ever feckless organisation would pay to listen to that babbling buffoon.

 

[Dennisch]

sheer force of personality

Are the British that gullible for politicians? Every time I see and hear him, all I see is Trump's special little brother who fell off the changing table as a baby a bit too often.

 

[Touring Mars]

Are the British that gullible for politicians?

No... some are even worse.

Every time I see and hear him, all I see is Trump's special little brother who fell off the changing table as a baby a bit too often.

Boris does have the gift of the gab - I met him once at a mutual friend's funeral and he was/is a larger-than-life character... he's also not stupid, even though he does act (and talk) like it occasionally. One thing that is apparent, however, is that he is very much the product of the establishment, and when you couple that with having 'the gift of the gab', you have a future PM on your hands.

 

[Dennisch]

It must be my healthy distrust of the established politicians. Their only motivation to "work" is to keep their ass in the fancy seats.

 

[Famine]

I reckon that Boris has simply won by sheer force of personality thus far, but that he had better have some good ideas what to do otherwise he's going to be found out very fast.

If the Premiership of the UK was a poison chalice three years ago, it is now more poisonous than a GRU officer's perfume cabinet.

He wont care, even to be PM for a week will bolster his self importance and value to sell himself to what ever feckless organisation would pay to listen to that babbling buffoon.

No... some are even worse.

Boris does have the gift of the gab - I met him once at a mutual friend's funeral and he was/is a larger-than-life character... he's also not stupid, even though he does act (and talk) like it occasionally. One thing that is apparent, however, is that he is very much the product of the establishment, and when you couple that with having 'the gift of the gab', you have a future PM on your hands.

Yes, Boris simply isn't that stupid - and it's a dangerous thing to buy into that bumbling HIGNFY buffoon character as if he doesn't know what he's doing.

He's rarely caught with his pants down (except for that time it literally happened) and everything is a tactical move. Simply presiding over a catastrophic failure won't suit his needs - or else he wouldn't have let Gove shoot his bolt in 2016. I suspect we'll see one of two things next.

If Boris doesn't think he can achieve his aims, he'll withdraw from the leadership election safe in the knowledge he vanquished Gove for good. He'll then piss into Jeremy Hunt's tent right through to the next season-ending cliffhanger in Brexit.

Alternatively - and this is the one you're going to need a stiff drink for - he'll ride the no deal train, team up with Farage heading into a GE in September, deliver an absolute slaughter of Labour still vacillating on deal or no deal or new deal or referendum (to the point that they will cease existing as a political party) smash through 50% of votes cast, Hard Brexit, welcome BXP/UKIP back into the Conservative fold, be lauded as the saviour of the Tories from the low ebb of May, quit after three years with a peerage/knighthood and pass the reins on to Farage.