Britain - The Official Thread

[MatskiMonk]

Then you use charm, deceit, and force to get it done

I'd quite like it if the need for those things was scoured from governance.

You need to have a vision, a plan

Matski's new national order manifesto?

and well-bankrolled organization.

I'd hope for a system that was efficient enough to require minimum financial burden to the people.

There are no easy revolutionary options. As much as I might like to see it in my life time, a big part of it has to come through education, if we get it right, we'd be raising a generation of kids that would be smart enough to demand change on a massive scale, not just the odd Internet ranter like me.

I'd argue that revolutionary change needs to look at economics, and Maslows triangle. Our most basic needs are those things that will likely cost us the most through our life, until this changes the majority are debt slaves, and while this is the case they will be subject to easy manipulation, which inevitably leads to a biased system that serves the ruling classes above all else.

 

[Touring Mars]

The Supreme Court rules unanimously that the decision to prorogue Parliament was unlawful and as such Parliament is not prorogued.

 

[Liquid]

SO MUCH PRIMACY

Wonder if he can appeal to the European Court?

 

[Touring Mars]

This is pretty heavy stuff - I think it has also likely killed Brexit.

 

[Liquid]

Wonder how implicated the Queen is in this? If she knew that the prorogation was unfounded and unlawful?

I know she was supposedly only going along with what she was obligated to do at the Prime Minister's request because of protocol and that she is above the law because the law is exercised in her name but... it's just the principle.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I also answered in the Brexit thread (given that the judgement explicitly references these extraordinary events), but I'll continue here

I notice that Johnson is nowhere to be seen, rather like James II when the Declaration of Right was read out telling him to get ****ed. I also see that Fartage is tweeting against Johnson and calling for him to go, the Brexit Party's power game is afoot.

 

[baldgye]

Wonder how implicated the Queen is in this? If she knew that the prorogation was unfounded and unlawful?

I know she was supposedly only going along with what she was obligated to do at the Prime Minister's request because of protocol and that she is above the law because the law is exercised in her name but... it's just the principle.

I mean, the Queen is literally above the law

 

[Tired Tyres]

Wonder how implicated the Queen is in this? If she knew that the prorogation was unfounded and unlawful?

I know she was supposedly only going along with what she was obligated to do at the Prime Minister's request because of protocol and that she is above the law because the law is exercised in her name but... it's just the principle.

How is she supposed to know that? It took 11 high court judges to make that decision, which in turn overturns a previous decision made in a court as well.

 

[Touring Mars]

Who would have thunk it?

Tories and Labour both knocked out in the semis, and it's a Brexit Party v Lib Dems final.

 

[TenEightyOne]

How is she supposed to know that? It took 11 high court judges to make that decision, which in turn overturns a previous decision made in a court as well.

This from the palace in recent minutes: "the Queen acts, and has acted, on the advice of her prime minister".

There is no precedent (that I'm aware of) for this kind of thing.

it's a Brexit Party v Lib Dems final.

Fartage is already on the pitch practicing smug gurns to each corner.

 

[Liquid]

My concern now is that should Johnson resign, a second Prime Ministerial resignation in less than six months, a general election would be almost unavoidable. Allowing the same incompetent government to try again and again is just wrong. All opposition parties clamouring for him to consider his position but not accepting a general election because of the fear that it would galvanise the No Deal electorate would be bizarre; "We want you to resign but someone else from your party can have another go".

So... everything is a :censored:ing omnishambles.

 

[PzR Slim]

Very dangerous times.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Johnson expected to react in about 30 minutes. Sounds about right.

 

[Dotini]

So... everything is a :censored:ing omnishambles.

Very dangerous times.

It is precisely in such times when things becomes inchoate, mixed-up, liquid, that rapid change becomes not only very possible, but very likely.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Johnson showing no signs of resigning, and there's no word on him leaving New York early.

Pro-Johnson talking heads on this side of the pond are saying the he needs to "consider the judgement carefully and reflect on the advice he's been given" (to quote but one). To me that says Johnson ploughs on regardless while Dominic Cummings is thrown beneath the bus.

 

[Touring Mars]

Johnson showing no signs of resigning, and there's no word on him leaving New York early.

Must have booked his flight with Thomas Cook.

 

[eran0004]

Wonder how implicated the Queen is in this? If she knew that the prorogation was unfounded and unlawful?

I know she was supposedly only going along with what she was obligated to do at the Prime Minister's request because of protocol and that she is above the law because the law is exercised in her name but... it's just the principle.

I don’t think she had much choice. Her role is a formal one. Technically she could have rejected prorogation but that would probably just have made the constitutional crisis worse.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Must have booked his flight with Thomas Cook.

On that note it's a double whammy for that lot... not only did they have a crap exchange rate when they bought their Euros, now the pound has lifted slightly after the SC ruling so they're getting an even worse deal on the way back.

I wonder if any Leave supporters are refusing the return flights being laid on through the mandate of the European Directive, it just smacks of foreign interference.

 

[Liquid]

I'm sure there are legitimate reasons for visiting, and fostering relations with, the Cayman Islands but... let's flag down a taxi and head for Real Street.

 

[TenEightyOne]

An interesting article on the Citizenship Test.

 

[Liquid]

Thanks to Northern Irish MLAs sitting on their arses for 2 years 8 months 27 days whilst still drawing salaries and expenses, Westminster's hand has been forced and abortion has now been decriminalised and equal marriage legalised in Northern Ireland. The first gay marriages are expected to take place on Valentine's Day 2020 and the government has until March 2020 to decide the provision of services for abortion.

In an attempt to thwart the edict from London, Unionist parties tried a last-minute ditch attempt to reopen Stormont yesterday afternoon but Nationalist parties walked out or otherwise did not attend and the session is not allowed to continue without cross-community support.

So Northern Ireland is closer to the rest of Great Britain like the DUP always wanted it to be. All this because of Cash For Ash. DUP's own stubbornness and arrogance has seen them accidentally pass legislation for abortion and equal marriage. Brilliant.

 

[Liquid]

The Labour Party are willing to agree to hold a December general election under the understanding that No Deal Brexit is now "off the table" with the latest extension.

 

[baldgye]

The Labour Party are willing to agree to hold a December general election under the understanding that No Deal Brexit is now "off the table" with the latest extension.

A GE, brilliant... so we have;

Tories - We'll get Brexit done! ...honest, not sure what kind of Brexit... ... BREXIT!
Labour - What do we stand for?
Lib Dem (remember us?) - No Brexit!

 

[Liquid]

Tory-Brexit Pary alliance will sweep this election.

 

[Famine]

A GE, brilliant... so we have;

Tories - We'll get Brexit done! ...honest, not sure what kind of Brexit... ... BREXIT!
Labour - What do we stand for?
Lib Dem (remember us?) - No Brexit!

Tory-Brexit Pary alliance will sweep this election.

Today's scheduled reminder of my post in June:

Yes, Boris simply isn't that stupid - and it's a dangerous thing to buy into that bumbling HIGNFY buffoon character as if he doesn't know what he's doing.

He's rarely caught with his pants down (except for that time it literally happened) and everything is a tactical move. Simply presiding over a catastrophic failure won't suit his needs - or else he wouldn't have let Gove shoot his bolt in 2016. I suspect we'll see one of two things next.

If Boris doesn't think he can achieve his aims, he'll withdraw from the leadership election safe in the knowledge he vanquished Gove for good. He'll then piss into Jeremy Hunt's tent right through to the next season-ending cliffhanger in Brexit.

Alternatively - and this is the one you're going to need a stiff drink for - he'll ride the no deal train, team up with Farage heading into a GE in September, deliver an absolute slaughter of Labour still vacillating on deal or no deal or new deal or referendum (to the point that they will cease existing as a political party) smash through 50% of votes cast, Hard Brexit, welcome BXP/UKIP back into the Conservative fold, be lauded as the saviour of the Tories from the low ebb of May, quit after three years with a peerage/knighthood and pass the reins on to Farage.

It's October (although the GE is December), and I'm not totally sure about the Hard Brexit bit right now - part of me thinks that as the Government has now withdrawn the WA it won't come back again - but otherwise...

 

[TenEightyOne]

Tory-Brexit Pary alliance will sweep this election.

Today's scheduled reminder of my post in June:

What if... Boris gets the General Election, parliament goes into purdah, and then Britain simply doesn't accept the extension? Can that happen? Could it be stopped? Normally I'd answer those questions with "the law as it stands won't allow that", but in the current Westminster climate I'm not sure.

 

[baldgye]

Today's scheduled reminder of my post in June

Not exactly a wild claim (I'm pretty sure many other people have said as much)

But given Bojo's total failure (to do the one thing he said he was 100% defo gona do) and the fact Brexit has been delayed again... I think he'll struggle in a GE now.
He's proven himself to be full of as much **** as the previous Tory PM's. While I think we'll get a Tory PM after a GE (prob even Bojo), I see a more likely coalition between the Lib Dems and the Tories than Brexit Party and the Tories.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Not exactly a wild claim (I'm pretty sure many other people have said as much)

It was new thinking at the time, the fact that it's become more likely that it will happen means it was also good thinking.

But given Bojo's total failure (to do the one thing he said he was 100% defo gona do) and the fact Brexit has been delayed again... I think he'll struggle in a GE now.

Sadly I'm not so sure. He's positioned himself as the figurehead of Brexit who's being constantly thwarted by indecisive snowflakes. That seems to be resonating with a lot of Leave voters (imo). I think the Tories will do better than they would have done if a GE was held with May in charge.

 

[baldgye]

It was new thinking at the time, the fact that it's become more likely that it will happen means it was also good thinking.



Sadly I'm not so sure. He's positioned himself as the figurehead of Brexit who's being constantly thwarted by indecisive snowflakes. That seems to be resonating with a lot of Leave voters (imo). I think the Tories will do better than they would have done if a GE was held with May in charge.

I guess time will tell, but I’m not convinced Borris has much backing. He’s moved away from No Deal, which is what the ardent morons of The Brexit Party where championing. His deal is worse than May’s and he’s now got an extension.

I could be wrong but he seems to have lost a lot of his insane furthur.

 

[Touring Mars]

Sadly I'm not so sure. He's positioned himself as the figurehead of Brexit who's being constantly thwarted by indecisive snowflakes. That seems to be resonating with a lot of Leave voters (imo). I think the Tories will do better than they would have done if a GE was held with May in charge.

Exactly.

Johnson has got Labour right where he wants them - he got a deal with the EU... they rejected it. They want No Deal taken 'off the table'... it isn't.

Now, fans of No Deal may revert to the Brexit Party, but Johnson's 'No Deal' credentials are still very much intact - that said, he has never been (and never was) a supporter of a No Deal Brexit, rather he was using the threat of No Deal as the means to strike a 'better' (harder) Brexit deal with the EU. On that front, his strategy has been a complete success.

Ironically, though, both Johnson and the MPs that oppose him (mainly Labour) now face the prospect of that 'No Deal' threat becoming far stronger i.e. if the Brexit Party end up propping up a minority Tory Government. But even that would strengthen Johnson's hand compared to now, and would be consistent with his overall strategy of threatening No Deal in order to get concessions from Europe, which has already worked well. The trouble is that if there is a Johnson-Farage coalition, then that threat (which always rang a bit hollow in the absence of a Parliamentary majority to back it up) will suddenly become very real... both moderate Tories and virtually all of the opposition may yet come to regret scuppering the current deal.