Britain - The Official Thread

[UKMikey]

They know full well that it doesn't matter what they do, they will get away with it.

This is why we need an opposition which isn't crap and why it's so sad that the Labour leadership are dropping the ball.

[EDIT] Actually my post is missing the point of what @baldgye said and I shouldn't be blaming the victim in this case. I know there is a fake Brexit Party manifesto site but that party doesn't have a real manifesto to confuse it with, unlike the Tory "Labour" site.

 

[polysmut]

I know there is a fake Brexit Party manifesto site but that party doesn't have a real manifesto to confuse it with, unlike the Tory "Labour" site.

I think there was half an hour where the spoof Labour Party manifesto was online before the party's launch of their actual manifesto. Likewise, the Brexit Party will have a manifesto. I think theirs is to be revealed today?
Even still, the target audience for spoofs such as this are unlikely to check the differences.

 

[UKMikey]

Likewise, the Brexit Party will have a manifesto. I think theirs is to be revealed today?

If that's the case then Nigel Farage appears to have changed his mind fairly rapidly.

 

[polysmut]

If that's the case then Nigel Farage appears to have changed his mind fairly rapidly.

I've been out of the loop for a few weeks with regard to keeping up with most news. I could have misread something somewhere while quickly glossing through.

 

[UKMikey]

I've been out of the loop for a few weeks with regard to keeping up with most news. I could have misread something somewhere while quickly glossing through.

Any confusion is understandable given that Farage has unveiled a "contract" that is in no way supposed to be the manifesto it so closely resembles. I wonder whether he's trying to play with semantics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50511014

 

[polysmut]

Any confusion is understandable given that Farage has unveiled a "contract" that is in no way supposed to be the manifesto it so closely resembles. I wonder whether he's trying to play with semantics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50511014

Ah, ok. A manifesto that isn't called a manifesto because voters associate the word manifesto with lies.

Edit:

Mr Farage has also indicated his party will campaign for postal voting to be limited to elderly, infirm and overseas voters, citing "many examples of intimidation and fraud".

Nothing to do with his target demographic hopefully.

 

[baldgye]

Any confusion is understandable given that Farage has unveiled a "contract" that is in no way supposed to be the manifesto it so closely resembles. I wonder whether he's trying to play with semantics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50511014

It's so that he can claim, that it isn't a manifesto and they can make up anything they want without being held to account. Farage worshippers Brexit Party Suppoters, aren't concerned with reality so the party can get away with anything it wants... which also now seems to be the case with the main parties too...

Mr Farage has also indicated his party will campaign for postal voting to be limited to elderly, infirm and overseas voters, citing "many examples of intimidation and fraud".

Ah yes the ol'Trump concept that voter fraud is rampant, yet in reality it doesn't exist. In fact, the only people found guilty of anything serious related to a vote was... Leave... hmmm...

 

[Touring Mars]

Is anyone else wasting their life Friday night watching the BBC’s Leaders Question Time?

So far, I’d say Corbyn did pretty well, Sturgeon was annoyingly quite convincing (but I don’t think she got very challenging questions), Swinson struggled and Johnson’s performance has been an utter car crash (and it’s only half way through!)...

 

[PeterJB]

Is anyone else wasting their life Friday night watching the BBC’s Leaders Question Time?

So far, I’d say Corbyn did pretty well, Sturgeon was annoyingly quite convincing (but I don’t think she got very challenging questions), Swinson struggled and Johnson’s performance has been an utter car crash (and it’s only half way through!)...

Sheffield being a Labour heartland probably helps (though you could be forgiven for thinking they were in Scotland with the reception Sturgeon got), but regardless, Swinson kept making snubs at her rivals without offering anything particularly distinct from them besides cancel Brexit, and BoJo did the usual vacuous Tory line of making dubious promises on public spending which no one in that audience was buying.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Is anyone else wasting their life Friday night watching the BBC’s Leaders Question Time?

So far, I’d say Corbyn did pretty well, Sturgeon was annoyingly quite convincing (but I don’t think she got very challenging questions), Swinson struggled and Johnson’s performance has been an utter car crash (and it’s only half way through!)...

I completely agree. I hadn't expected Swinson to be popular in Sheffield, and she wasn't, but she did a terrible job and really only had ad hominem to rely on. This was the chance to push the Liberal manifesto beyond the single USP... but other than a rework of Universal Credit there was nothing.

Corbyn looked like a shifty geography teacher, Johnson was as appalling as one might expect, and I ended the program realising that I need to live in Scotland by the time Sturgeon's wall goes up. There are some good jobs coming up at the Engine Shed, might have to get my CV together

 

[HenrySwanson]

Ah yes the ol'Trump concept that voter fraud is rampant, yet in reality it doesn't exist. In fact, the only people found guilty of anything serious related to a vote was... Leave... hmmm...

It's not so much fraud per se, rather the dubious nature of it in some areas:

http://www.democraticaudit.com/2019...electoral-fraud-in-peterboroughs-by-election/

 

[baldgye]

I was all for Lib Dem’s #yolo... but it seems more and more like its a bad vote... how the **** does a party get to be so bad? (looks at labour and Tories) oh yeah....

it’s such a ********, we really are in the same position as the US was, Hillary or Trump, Bojo or Corbs...

 

[PzR Slim]

I was all for Lib Dem’s #yolo... but it seems more and more like its a bad vote... how the **** does a party get to be so bad? (looks at labour and Tories) oh yeah....

it’s such a ********, we really are in the same position as the US was, Hillary or Trump, Bojo or Corbs...

At this point I'm prepared to do anything to ensure the Tories don't form a government.

 

[UKMikey]

I was all for Lib Dem’s #yolo... but it seems more and more like its a bad vote... how the **** does a party get to be so bad? (looks at labour and Tories) oh yeah....

it’s such a ********, we really are in the same position as the US was, Hillary or Trump, Bojo or Corbs...

Since Boris punted me out of his safe Tory seat into John McDonnell's safe Labour seat I can throw my vote away on the Lib Dems with a clear conscience.

 

[MatskiMonk]

We need electoral reform.

Do not vote either Conservative or Labour.

 

[XJ40]

I think this'll be the first election that I dont vote.

I like Boris in the sense that I think he will talk the UK up, pushing what we have and can do to the wider world. He seems to have a political energy that May didnt. But he is going for Brexit, which I dont want, so Conservative are not for me.

Corbyn.... Seems to have sat on the fence for ages without making me sit up and take notice of him and his policies. Apart from being neutral in a second EU vote, he has done nothing memorable for me in the time I've known of him. So Labour not for me.

Swinson.... stop Brexit. That's for me but I just cant get behind the Liberal Democrats as a party. Also not for me.

Sturgeon.... enough with this second referendum already (Yes I see the irony of me wanting to discard the EU decision and try again for the answer I personally want, but respect the independence result) She is a strong player on the political landscape and handles herself well but I dont want an independent Scotland. SNP not for me.

So what am I looking for? Well: I would like Scotland to have a strong voice down south but remain part of the UK and remain in the EU. I dont want to simply throw money at the NHS (bear with me) but rather more efficient spending to make sure that the funding it receives goes as far as it can and is spent wisely.
Education is only as good as the quality of the teachers we have and I was lucky to have what I consider as a good education, as the teachers I had were engaging and were interested in the subjects they taught. I scored well in subjects that I liked, and not so good in subjects that I didnt. I'd like to see a credible plan to ensure the continuing quality of teaching that we have, as where I live it's pretty damn good. (Apart from a maths teacher shortage)

So if there is a party that meets this criteria, they're for me.

This post is purely my opinion and I'm willing to be proved wrong, I need to find out more about the LibDems but where I live they are never going to trouble the established party.

 

[baldgye]

Do not vote either Conservative or Labour.

...and vote for who? The Lib Dem’s?
Who can’t even come up with a meaningful narrative bar we’ll stop brexit... yet their last two leaders didn’t even bother to show up for the Brexit vote!

yeah both main parties are a shambles, but who the else can you vote for without throwing away you’re vote?

 

[MatskiMonk]

...and vote for who? The Lib Dem’s?
Who can’t even come up with a meaningful narrative bar we’ll stop brexit... yet their last two leaders didn’t even bother to show up for the Brexit vote!

yeah both main parties are a shambles, but who the else can you vote for without throwing away you’re vote?

Vote Brexit Party or Green then.

I don't really care, any vote for the Conservatives or Labour is vote in support of our current parliamentary and democratic systems, and I'm coming to the conclusion that's more moronic than voting to leave the EU.

 

[baldgye]

Vote Brexit Party or Green then.

I don't really care, any vote for the Conservatives or Labour is vote in support of our current parliamentary and democratic systems, and I'm coming to the conclusion that's more moronic than voting to leave the EU.

The Brexit party who can’t even put together a manifesto and the Greens which would be a wasted vote? Great

 

[MatskiMonk]

The Brexit party who can’t even put together a manifesto and the Greens which would be a wasted vote? Great

So vote for the Conservatives, that will protect the FPTP system, and continue to make sure that most votes don't count. Even better!

 

[baldgye]

So vote for the Conservatives, that will protect the FPTP system, and continue to make sure that most votes don't count. Even better!

...but why would I vote for them over Labour? ...why do I want to protect the FPTP system?

 

[MatskiMonk]

...but why would I vote for them over Labour?

Vote labour then... it doesn't matter, neither is interested in changing the system which has kept one or the other in power for just about the last 100 years.

why do I want to protect the FPTP system?

If you vote for a party where your vote will count (I assume) this means you will be voting Labour, or Conservative... so ... see above.

 

[baldgye]

Vote labour then... it doesn't matter, neither is interested in changing the system which has kept one or the other in power for just about the last 100 years.



If you vote for a party where your vote will count (I assume) this means you will be voting Labour, or Conservative... so ... see above.

So the choice is, have your vote not count... or be complicit in the continued ******** that is British politics?

I really don’t agree with you. Yeah FPTP isn’t fantastic, but never before have I seen a reigning government **** all over it’s self-as a way of selling its self, never before have I see the reigning government so actively attack the opposition... setting up fake manifesto websites and trying to spoof fact checking during a TV debate!

The media in this country is broken far more than FPTP is. Brexit showed us this much, the push from the extreme-to middling right wing is insane, so much as to push a country to make it’s self poorer! And nothing has changed...


Edit: for added context, here is the Home Secretary, saying that poverty, isn’t the fault of the Tory Government, that’s been in power for 9(?) years... https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...sterity-general-election-tories-a9211741.html

 

[MatskiMonk]

So the choice is, have your vote not count... or be complicit in the continued ******** that is British politics?

Yup.

Don't get me wrong, I feel your frustration, my vote will be cast, then ignored by parliament, because I won't be voting for our ultrasafe Tory candidate... which is of course annoying... but there is no alternative - if I don't vote I am not registering my opinion, if I vote tactically to stop Bojo, I am misrepresenting my opinion.

Brexit is going to happen, we're eating dog**** pie either way - the bad guys, the racists and the liars won. Now, fundamental change to the system is probably the greatest gift we can give future generations and the first peaceful step we can take to that is to seek electoral and parliamentary reform.

 

[baldgye]

Brexit is going to happen, we're eating dog**** pie either way - the bad guys, the racists and the liars won. Now, fundamental change to the system is probably the greatest gift we can give future generations and the first peaceful step we can take to that is to seek electoral and parliamentary reform.

I also don’t agree with this. The Tories winning doesn’t guarantee Brexit, hell bojo said he would get it done when he was elected and has failed to do so. Brexit isn’t feasible.


But what also isn’t feasible is electoral reform in the current climate. The saving of our economy and NHS has to be the priority... and by the way... any party that is anti-FPTP soon as they get elected by that system, suddenly isn’t so interested in changing it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

But what also isn’t feasible is electoral reform in the current climate... any party that is anti-FPTP soon as they get elected by that system, suddenly isn’t so interested in changing it.

And we've had a referendum, there won't be another one.

 

[baldgye]

And we've had a referendum, there won't be another one.

Who knows... but while electoral reform is needed, first we need functional politics, otherwise that reform, will end up being more ****ed than the current system.


The last elected Tory government lead by what we could call a moderate in the current climate couldn't even properly run a referendum... what chance have we got of any party now, being able to properly address electoral reform?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I also don’t agree with this. The Tories winning doesn’t guarantee Brexit, hell bojo said he would get it done when he was elected and has failed to do so. Brexit isn’t feasible.

It doesn't have to be feasible, it just has to happen. Seems like a very long leap to me to get from neither of the two main parties opposing brexit, to someone tabling revoke A50, and MP's voting in favour of it, to it actually getting called off. It is currently law and no-one will have the power to change that.

any party that is anti-FPTP soon as they get elected by that system, suddenly isn’t so interested in changing it.

I don't see that the events would unfold like that. Since none of the parties that want it can overtake an incumbent pro-FPTP via a GE, it would require all the pro-PR MP's from the smaller parties to vote for it during normal business, and they'd probably all stand to gain from it at that point. For that to happen we need as few CON/LAB MP's in the house as possible. An election would then be held under the new system and at that point, it's not in the 'winners' interest to be pro-FPTP, because they've just won based on PR.

The saving of our economy and NHS has to be the priority

Oh good... well at least that means you can vote for pretty much anyone then, since they're all promising to do it.

And we've had a referendum, there won't be another one.

Not while there's a majority rule from parties benefiting from FPTP, yay, a system we cannot change!

first we need functional politics

You will not get functional politics while peoples voices are systematically ignored.

 

[TenEightyOne]

The last elected Tory government lead by what we could call a moderate in the current climate couldn't even properly run a referendum

But they did, at least by their own criteria. As you'll probably recall the news, chat shows and newspapers were filled with weird analogies about second-favourite crisp flavours, all to show us how absurdly difficult proportional representation would be. Unsurprisingly the referendum result left our system unchanged.

Not while there's a majority rule from parties benefiting from FPTP, yay, a system we cannot change!

We had the chance and won't get it again.

 

[baldgye]

But they did, at least by their own criteria.

If you have a referendum, that’ll lead to a serious change in policy (especially internationally), it’s prudent to have a threshold. Cameron didn’t because he was gambling this countries future on his ability to out manoeuvre a highly organised well funded and illegally operated opposition.