Britain - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter Ross
  • 13,373 comments
  • 618,490 views

How will you vote in the 2024 UK General Election?

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Labour Party

    Votes: 14 48.3%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other Parties

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
I saw this on the website of a local jeweller earlier... I can see now that it is indeed a sort-of bee, but at first it reminded me of a different symbol. Or is it just me?

EDIT: And yes, Hugh Rice is Jewish.

BeeNecklace.PNG
 
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Speaking of living in a similar house to what you grew up in, what is the culture of home aspirations like in the UK? I've had questions about the terraced house style before but they seem so ubiquitous that a person could expect to live their entire life in one, maybe be lucky enough to find a different floorplan. Over here most of us won't achieve much more than our parents did but we still have the option of living in a completely different apartment style or house style than what we grew up in. Many family members I know who have moved several times, each place they'd lived in is a completely different layout or size than the others. It seems like almost every city has almost every concept of housing you could think of to choose from. I assume the British culture of housing desires is completely different so what do young people with new jobs aspire to? Is there any "aspiration" for housing or do they focus their efforts elsewhere?

Depends greatly on where you live. City, town or countryside. For the average now city-dweller on leaving university you will probably have already relocated to a different city. You'll likely start off living in a shared house, rented (likely a terrace) or a more modern flat/apartment closer to the city centre. Your next move would be to rent something similar with a partner or on your own as and when you can afford it. When the thought of having a family becomes a real issue you could be expected to move out to the suburbs to a bigger semi-detached with a bit of garden etc. You might move up the property chain as your wages increase or the family expands, perhaps to a bigger semi or a detached. Once your own kids have grown up and flown the nest or you have retired yourself, you may then down-size to a bungalow or similar to live out the rest of your days. But this is very much a generalization, and a middle-class one at that.

I live in a more modest house than the one i grew up in, but then i don't have kids so don't require all that extra space. My sister on the other hand has two kids and although her and her husband have lived all over (due to work) in a variety of very different houses, she's ended up moving 'back home' and bought a house really quite similar to the one we grew up in just a couple of streets away.

People still aspire to 'do as well' as their parents did, i think that's just human nature, but for the generation below me, it's increasing hard to get on the property ladder as the deposits required to get a mortgage are now huge and as rents are usually more than what a mortgage payment would be, it's much harder to raise that deposit. As houses are seen as a good long term investment, buy-to-let has driven up house prices and therefore the deposits, usually a sizable percentage of the overall value, are now largely out of reach for first time buyers.

As the UK is a small densely populated island, 'country living' - living in a rural setting is now seen largely as aspirational as you are never so far away from a city that it's not commutable, so property and land is expensive (which i would imagine is the opposite to much of North America). It's generally a post-war, or later, phenomenon so there are still families who live rurally who have always lived and worked locally but whose children would never be able to buy where they grew up as house values have gone up well beyond what traditional local jobs would afford them.
 
Average current price in the postcode I grew up in (age 6 to 21) is currently £665,000. I have never aspired to this, or used the house type as any kind of benchmark (It was a cottage built in two stages, with the newer parts being late 1800's, and the older part being 16-1700's IIRC, located in a small rural village).

I'm now 41 and have been renting for 20 years, so I've already spent enough to buy a small 1 bedroom flat outright, however, I've never been in a position to even think about buying up until the last year or so, so my aspiration is either to simply have enough money to survive in retirement, or die (painlessly) before I have to worry about it. It's probable that my Dad will die before I'm 67, so I could expect some kind of lump sum to contribute towards having a roof over my head in retirement, so that's a plus... I suppose.
 
Pretty much this.

Some people really want a new build. I think they're largely dreadful and flimsy, and built in absolutely ridiculous places that flood for fun, but at least their electrics are up to code.

Others prefer something older, like the things built pretty much from the 1920s through to the 1980s; I'm forever finding DIY bodges in mine though (and probably would in my old house, though my parents bought that new in 1964 and stayed there until death/2006 so they'd be to blame for that) and we've had to redo much of the utilities and glazing in here.

I'd discount a terrace out of hand, no matter where it is. Mid terrace gives you terrible access and a grossly increased chance of having a party wall with a tosser. End terrace gives you terrible access. All give you every noise made in any of them transmitted right the way through. Same with flats and apartments, and anything with multiple properties sharing a front door.

Personally, I'd wager that almost everyone would want a nice, secure, detached property if they won the lottery. Though really we've not been a culture of homeowners until the 1950s, and maybe even as recent as the 1980s with "right to buy". Only a quarter of the population owned their own home in the 1910s, and only a third in the 1940s. It's around two-thirds now.
You've just listed pretty much every problem we have here too. While the speed and precision of new construction is impressive, the longevity is not. They don't build anything out of solid brick or stone anymore, it's all wood framed with a veneer of brick on the outside, basically just helping weight it down so it flexes more come the first winter. Within several years of temperature changes you'll likely have cracks in the drywall and other signs of movement. As for apartments, I've never lived in anything newish that probably has better sound deadening, but the one I live in right now is having a problem with the upstairs neighbor. I dislike his girlfriend especially because she laughs at the lamest jokes, and laughs way too much. But as everybody else is echoing here, house prices, even old mid-century houses that are full of DIY nightmares, are rocketing up past $150,000 in the Midwest which is about a 30% increase just in the past 4-5 years. For a while there the prices were actually accessible and young people were buying these old houses up but now we've literally run out because developers absolutely do not build affordable and decent quality houses. If they do, they're in what used to be the hellest hole neighorhood in town which is being gentrified and you'll be living in a nice little new house just a block or two away from the worst crime rates in the city, and with underfunded urban schools to boot. Somehow, living on a college campus sounds more appealing than that, but of course we can't afford to live on campus anymore either.

For me I grew up in a 3 bedroom Mid terrace Council House (Ex Council now as my parents bought it so years ago) and its a vastly different layout to the 3 Bedroom Mid terrace (Technically an end of terrace as we have an airgap of about 5mm between us and the house on our right when facing the house from the street). The one I own now is a late Victorian terrace and typical of the red brick type terrace houses. My parents house is much roomier in floor space but lower celling heights and more typical of Post WW2 Council houses.

Incidentally My parents house has had 4 Generations of my dads family live and grow up in it. Some of my Aunties and Uncles were born in it too. My house still has some of the old bakerlite fixtures.

As for aspirations personally I aspired to own my own home, I just didn't want to continue to live on a council estate (I believe in the USA you call them The Projects?) so I stayed in the same Village but moved onto a quieter more affluent (I'm using this term loosely) street. Money dictated the size and area I could buy in. If I could I'd move to a bigger and detached house.
Speaking of the projects, no I don't think you lived in the projects haha. That new urban neighborhood I just mentioned to Famine, those are build on the grounds of demolished projects. Projects were America's attempt to round up poor black people and put them all in a centralized soviet-style apartment complex so they were easier to keep track of. Or maybe it was to offer affordable housing to disadvantaged people? Ahh, depends on which book you read I suppose. Anyways, we call our public housing "Section 8" and it's basically just a discount or subsidized program that new or existing complexes can sign up to accept. Projects still exist mind you but you and I aren't invited.

Depends greatly on where you live. City, town or countryside. For the average now city-dweller on leaving university you will probably have already relocated to a different city. You'll likely start off living in a shared house, rented (likely a terrace) or a more modern flat/apartment closer to the city centre. Your next move would be to rent something similar with a partner or on your own as and when you can afford it. When the thought of having a family becomes a real issue you could be expected to move out to the suburbs to a bigger semi-detached with a bit of garden etc. You might move up the property chain as your wages increase or the family expands, perhaps to a bigger semi or a detached. Once your own kids have grown up and flown the nest or you have retired yourself, you may then down-size to a bungalow or similar to live out the rest of your days. But this is very much a generalization, and a middle-class one at that.

I live in a more modest house than the one i grew up in, but then i don't have kids so don't require all that extra space. My sister on the other hand has two kids and although her and her husband have lived all over (due to work) in a variety of very different houses, she's ended up moving 'back home' and bought a house really quite similar to the one we grew up in just a couple of streets away.

People still aspire to 'do as well' as their parents did, i think that's just human nature, but for the generation below me, it's increasing hard to get on the property ladder as the deposits required to get a mortgage are now huge and as rents are usually more than what a mortgage payment would be, it's much harder to raise that deposit. As houses are seen as a good long term investment, buy-to-let has driven up house prices and therefore the deposits, usually a sizable percentage of the overall value, are now largely out of reach for first time buyers.

As the UK is a small densely populated island, 'country living' - living in a rural setting is now seen largely as aspirational as you are never so far away from a city that it's not commutable, so property and land is expensive (which i would imagine is the opposite to much of North America). It's generally a post-war, or later, phenomenon so there are still families who live rurally who have always lived and worked locally but whose children would never be able to buy where they grew up as house values have gone up well beyond what traditional local jobs would afford them.
Country land is cheap here sure but because it's only sold in large quantities it's pretty inaccessible. The countryside is the domain of rich Republicans in the US - either you're buying an expensive house in a new development built on ex-farmland or you're building an expensive house build on a slightly smaller ex-farmland that you bought yourself. It's definitely cheaper than building your own house inside a town or city but I mean who the hell can afford to build a house anyway? Young folks are stuck battling over 1950s scraps with all the problems Famine described like poor build quality, questionable modifications, and crappy neighbors. American culture and people who take it too far mean that even in a detached house you can have neighbors so bad you'll wish you had an apartment, like my cousin's neighbor who tried to light his own truck on fire with a bowl of gasoline so he could pocket the insurance money. I thawt this was a free cuhntry! The suburb I grew up in wasn't so bad although the entire area did get their snowblowers stolen out of their garages in the middle of summer one year.

Average current price in the postcode I grew up in (age 6 to 21) is currently £665,000. I have never aspired to this, or used the house type as any kind of benchmark (It was a cottage built in two stages, with the newer parts being late 1800's, and the older part being 16-1700's IIRC, located in a small rural village).

I'm now 41 and have been renting for 20 years, so I've already spent enough to buy a small 1 bedroom flat outright, however, I've never been in a position to even think about buying up until the last year or so, so my aspiration is either to simply have enough money to survive in retirement, or die (painlessly) before I have to worry about it. It's probable that my Dad will die before I'm 67, so I could expect some kind of lump sum to contribute towards having a roof over my head in retirement, so that's a plus... I suppose.
Well that's a dose of reality lmao. I'm aiming for the latter, honestly. I feel like this "save for retirement" thing was a scam to trick me into not enjoy life, and then suddenly being too old to enjoy it anyway. I'd rather just not get that old to be honest. I'm American, I absolutely will not be healthy enough to enjoy old age no matter how much money I have.
 
Speaking of the projects, no I don't think you lived in the projects haha. That new urban neighborhood I just mentioned to Famine, those are build on the grounds of demolished projects. Projects were America's attempt to round up poor black people and put them all in a centralized soviet-style apartment complex so they were easier to keep track of. Or maybe it was to offer affordable housing to disadvantaged people? Ahh, depends on which book you read I suppose. Anyways, we call our public housing "Section 8" and it's basically just a discount or subsidized program that new or existing complexes can sign up to accept. Projects still exist mind you but you and I aren't invited.

'Council houses' and 'The projects' aren't an exact like-for-like. Social housing, like what was built here in the inter and pre-war eras, was exactly that, just affordable housing built by/for the local councils and rented to the proletariat*. It was often quite well made as the councils had higher standards as they didn't want substantial repair bills five, ten years down the line. Somewhere like South Yorkshire used to have a massive proportion of social housing. Much of it got sold off cheap by the tories in the eighties, so you now get estates with mixed council and private housing. Some of those estates you wouldn't even want to stop at a red light in in fear of loosing your wheels, others you wouldn't know were ever 'council' to begin with.

* not just for the poorer end of society but encroaching into the middle classes too. Cheap rent is cheap rent if you don't mind the stigma of social housing, which many didn't, especially those who grew up traditional working class but were now more socially mobile.


Country land is cheap here sure but because it's only sold in large quantities it's pretty inaccessible. The countryside is the domain of rich Republicans in the US - either you're buying an expensive house in a new development built on ex-farmland or you're building an expensive house build on a slightly smaller ex-farmland that you bought yourself. It's definitely cheaper than building your own house inside a town or city but I mean who the hell can afford to build a house anyway? Young folks are stuck battling over 1950s scraps with all the problems Famine described like poor build quality, questionable modifications, and crappy neighbors. American culture and people who take it too far mean that even in a detached house you can have neighbors so bad you'll wish you had an apartment, like my cousin's neighbor who tried to light his own truck on fire with a bowl of gasoline so he could pocket the insurance money. I thawt this was a free cuhntry! The suburb I grew up in wasn't so bad although the entire area did get their snowblowers stolen out of their garages in the middle of summer one year.

I guess i'm basing this on a lot of my wife's writer friends/colleagues experiencing. She's always showing me houses they live in which on the face of it appear massive and seemingly cost pennys. As in nice looking 4/5 bed detached houses with half an acre or so for the price you'd expect to pay here for a two up, two down terrace. Or a garage or parking space in London. All things being relevant i suppose.
 
Yeah, relative to UK prices it's definitely cheap but the relationship of incomes and cost of living etc aren't as far off as it seems as far as I can tell. For example, my rich uncle might live in an $800k house (my single cousin lives in a $110k house and a married buddy with two kids and dual income lives in a $200k house) but if he moved to San Francisco or NYC he'd be stuck in a "middle class" neighborhood. I imagine the situation in and around London is probably the same. How those people afford it is beyond me but presumably they get paid twice as much or more for the same job as here in the Midwest. I'm thinking maybe UK property prices are more similar to the East Coast or California spectrum than the Midwest spectrum in the US, but maybe the pay for jobs is in that same spectrum.
 
Yeah, relative to UK prices it's definitely cheap but the relationship of incomes and cost of living etc aren't as far off as it seems as far as I can tell. For example, my rich uncle might live in an $800k house (my single cousin lives in a $110k house and a married buddy with two kids and dual income lives in a $200k house) but if he moved to San Francisco or NYC he'd be stuck in a "middle class" neighborhood. I imagine the situation in and around London is probably the same. How those people afford it is beyond me but presumably they get paid twice as much or more for the same job as here in the Midwest. I'm thinking maybe UK property prices are more similar to the East Coast or California spectrum than the Midwest spectrum in the US, but maybe the pay for jobs is in that same spectrum.

Looking at stuff about house prices that @Eunos_Cosmo is posting in one of the other threads, i would say that San Francisco and London look to be on a similar level for house prices, with a ripple effect for the surrounding areas. London wages are indeed higher than the rest of the country. So yeah, all relevant. We have some good friends who live in Reading, which is these days considered as London commuter belt. They keep pressuring us to come and move down there as jobs in my industry are fairly common. Trouble is, although the wages there are better, and even though in the 15 years we've been in our house it has maybe gone up in value by 60%, the money made off it's sale wouldn't be enough for a deposit on a similar house down there. Not that i'd want to live anyway ;)
 
Yeah, relative to UK prices it's definitely cheap but the relationship of incomes and cost of living etc aren't as far off as it seems as far as I can tell. For example, my rich uncle might live in an $800k house (my single cousin lives in a $110k house and a married buddy with two kids and dual income lives in a $200k house) but if he moved to San Francisco or NYC he'd be stuck in a "middle class" neighborhood. I imagine the situation in and around London is probably the same. How those people afford it is beyond me but presumably they get paid twice as much or more for the same job as here in the Midwest. I'm thinking maybe UK property prices are more similar to the East Coast or California spectrum than the Midwest spectrum in the US, but maybe the pay for jobs is in that same spectrum.

I wish. "Middle class" neighborhoods are like $1.6M and up here now. $800k will get you a nice meth lab though.
 
Crossing over with the American thread but if you're in any doubt about Boris Johnson's public judgement:

"I think the clear message that we get from the proceedings in America is that, after all the toings and froings and all the kerfuffle, American democracy is strong," he said.

:lol:

Boiling down one of the most partisan, openly obviously corrupt Senate trials, right after the second most partisan, openly obviously corrupt Senate trials; two in four years, boiling that down to a "kerfuffle" is laughable.
 
Boiling down one of the most partisan, openly obviously corrupt Senate trials, right after the second most partisan, openly obviously corrupt Senate trials; two in four years, boiling that down to a "kerfuffle" is laughable.
But it's also exactly what I would expect a Brit to say. If an asteroid hit London y'all would be like "....bollocks".
 
But it's also exactly what I would expect a Brit to say. If an asteroid hit London y'all would be like "....bollocks".

Not up north we wouldn't. We'd give a slow, quiet nod and everybody would know they'd had it coming, the flash gets.
 
Please tell me that monstrosity is not a thing t'up north.
Apparently it has to be Wensleydale. :yuck:

Eugh. It's enough to make the meteor change course and head for Yorkshire.
 
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An Oxo cube dissolved into a cup of hot water is quite nice, and after seeing cake and cheese it doesnt sound so wierd now. :)
 
Please tell me that monstrosity is not a thing t'up north.
As a proud northerner of almost 49 years, i can't say that i've ever heard of it.
It's fairly widespread across the North, more so in Yorkshire, but especially common in Sheffield. It's as Sheffield at Christmas as 12 Lords a-lepping*.



*Actually this is the probably original variant, but it's also the one still used in Chapeltown, High Green, and Stocksbridge; I think Ecclesfield and Grenoside too, but I don't recall. You can literally tell where someone is from by what they think 8-12 are in the song.
 
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An Oxo cube dissolved into a cup of hot water is quite nice, and after seeing cake and cheese it doesnt sound so wierd now. :)

Never Oxo, it's got to be Bovril - a tablespoon of that in hot water. It's even better spread on crumpets with butter (none of that nasty marg stuff neither).
 
Shamima Begum has lost her case to be allowed to return to the UK to fight the decision to strip her of her UK citizenship.

giphy.gif
human rights campaigners and legal experts alike who argue that the revocation rendered her stateless
CNN. Well, she tried to join ISIS which means she never intended to be stateless.
 
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I think there would be a little more sympathy to her 'plight' if she showed any sign or regret. She may have stated that she thinks ISIL is corrupt (who'd have thought it!) but she hasn't, as far as i've seen, denounced their actions in any shape or form, so unfortunately for her there's no way they'll let a high-profile terrorist, or terrorist sympathizer, back into the country.
 
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