Britain - The Official Thread

[Stotty]

Dude with final salary pension until the day he dies, owns two houses - one here, one in Spain - is semi-retired at 54 thinks staff on the front line during Covid epidemic were sat on their arses, and should be grateful for 1% pay rise...

.. makes sense.

I feel no guilt for what I have. I'm from a working class family. I've not inherited anything or been given anything - everything I have I've earned. Through my working life I paid 100's of thousands in tax and national insurance contributions, whilst never being a burden on the state.

I didn't say 'staff on the front line'.... I said public sector workers. Incidentally, only a third of the 1.1 million people who work in the NHS would be classed as 'front line'... there are many more that have not been involved with treating Covid and have not been working as hospitals have effectively been closed for normal services.

It's easy to shout for higher pay or more benefits when you're not the one that will be expected to pay for it at the same time as paying off another £400bn of borrowing... that responsibility will fall on the the 50% that contribute 90% of income tax and NI.

Go on.

Far too complex a subject to type a reply to... best to do your own research... try googling 'the thatcher years'.

 

[Liquid]

Far too complex a subject to type a reply to...

Thanks.

best to do your own research... try googling 'the thatcher years'.

No. I know what the Thatcher years were.

I'm asking you for your opinion on why the 1980s Tory government is, in your own words, one of the best governments Britain has ever had.

 

[HenrySwanson]

If race wasn't a factor in how the media/public/royal establismnet treated Meghan why are the, shall we say, "less politically correct" figures overwhelmingly against her....

 

[Famine]

If race wasn't a factor in how the media/public treated Meghan why are the, shall we say, "less politically correct" figures overwhelmingly against her....

Who says it isn't?

I mean, it doesn't need to be - they've always had this bizarre thing with Harry where one minute he's the poor little boy who had to walk behind his mother's coffin (William also did this; it's rarely referenced) and the next he's the suspected illegitimate ginger squaddie skeleton in the closet who gets slashed and dicks around in Nazi regalia and barely relevant to the line of accession, so it's very little surprise when they decide to hate his common-but-famous American actress he met on a blind date wife for simply not being the chaste, semi-royal, first love, love-at-first-sight, university waif wife who's puthering out the next-next generation of kings and queens - but it certainly could be. It seems most un-Mail-like to go after a service veteran, and about the only Royal most people think is of any particular use, though, even through his wife.

I have absolutely no familiarity with the subject through rampant lack of interest, but I was genuinely surprised to learn she was black and an actress. All I really knew about her was that she's relatively hot.

 

[Stotty]

Thanks.



No. I know what the Thatcher years were.

I'm asking you for your opinion on why the 1980s Tory government is, in your own words, one of the best governments Britain has ever had.

It's difficult to talk about what lead up to the 80's... the context of cultural and class changes post WW2, the rise of communism, also post WW2, the shadow of the cold war, the rapid economic rise of Japan... but I'll try and simplify...

Britain in the 1970's was broken, no matter whether the Tories or Labour were in government..

Utilities, public transport, communication, a decent amount of industry (including coal & steel production, shipbuilding and British Leyland) were all nationalised. As such, there was no competition or incentive for improvement. Add in massive trade unions, often with ultra left-wing/communist leadership(eg; Scargill, McClusky), who had little interest in improving productivity, and were happy to strike if they didn't get their demands... and layer on a backdrop of a volatile economy, with frequent massive inflation (up to 30%) and corresponding interest rates (15%+).

I was born in 1967. Some of my earliest memories are coming home from school to the backouts, or rubbish piled up outside our front gate. My father was a fitter (electrician) in the pits in the early 70's. He got so sick of constantly being called out on strike and the effect this had on our family he eventually left... but this meant he then had to work away the majority of the time and we rarely saw him. Every nigh the news was filled with the industrial unrest.

Even 40+ years on, it still feels like a dark time..

The country needed radical economic and social reform, and that's what Thatcher did. The process wasn't quick, and it didn't happen without a massive amount of pain and social unrest, but she had the strength of character to carry through the massive changes needed.

She was a Prime Minister with principles, prepared to take unpopular decisions to deliver her long-term beliefs. Something I've not seen in any Prime Minister over the following 30 years.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Who says it isn't?

I think the most prominent example was Laurence Fox's appearance on Question Time, and the subsequent response.

Listening to LBC this morning James O'Brien destroyed callers who said she was either in it for the money, or that they only put out the best version of themselves in the interview (yes seriously). There's also been numerous callers, columns and opinions online since that Question Time moment who have denied race as being a factor (not saying that it's the only or majority factor).

 

[Stotty]

Who says it isn't?

I mean, it doesn't need to be - they've always had this bizarre thing with Harry where one minute he's the poor little boy who had to walk behind his mother's coffin (William also did this; it's rarely referenced) and the next he's the suspected illegitimate ginger squaddie skeleton in the closet who gets slashed and dicks around in Nazi regalia and barely relevant to the line of accession, so it's very little surprise when they decide to hate his common-but-famous American actress he met on a blind date wife for simply not being the chaste, semi-royal, first love, love-at-first-sight, university waif wife who's puthering out the next-next generation of kings and queens - but it certainly could be. It seems most un-Mail-like to go after a service veteran, and about the only Royal most people think is of any particular use, though, even through his wife.

I have absolutely no familiarity with the subject through rampant lack of interest, but I was genuinely surprised to learn she was black and an actress. All I really knew about her was that she's relatively hot.

If only the media pursued the royal child abuser with the same zeal.

 

[Famine]

I think the most prominent example was Laurence Fox's appearance on Question Time, and the subsequent response.

Listening to LBC this morning James O'Brien destroyed callers who said she was either in it for the money, or that they only put out the best version of themselves in the interview (yes seriously). There's also been numerous callers, columns and opinions online since that Question Time moment who have denied race as being a factor (not saying that it's the only or majority factor).

Okay, so another actor and some middle England letter writers say that race isn't a factor. That being the case, I don't really understand who you were addressing with "If race wasn't a factor", unless you were just speaking extemporaneously.

 

[TheCracker]

If only the media pursued the royal child abuser with the same zeal.

It's almost as if the portion of the press who think this sort of thing is front page news and whom pander to the increasingly small proportion of the population who actually care about the royals, are purposely pushing news, which isn't actual news, about some now ex-royals to hide the fact that some other minor royal is an actual nonce. Which is actual news.

 

[Liquid]

one minute he's the poor little boy who had to walk behind his mother's coffin

Phrasing.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Okay, so another actor and some middle England letter writers say that race isn't a factor. That being the case, I don't really understand who you were addressing with "If race wasn't a factor", unless you were just speaking extemporaneously.

Just an observation on the types of people who shout loudest that it wasn't a factor rather than any one person in particular.

 

[PeterJB]

It's a shame that The Crown isn't going this far forward in the timeline, cause the writers would have the field day with all of this.

I'm sure The Windsors can rustle up something amusing in the mean time, though.

 

[Biggles]

It's difficult to talk about what lead up to the 80's... the context of cultural and class changes post WW2, the rise of communism, also post WW2, the shadow of the cold war, the rapid economic rise of Japan... but I'll try and simplify...

Britain in the 1970's was broken, no matter whether the Tories or Labour were in government..

Utilities, public transport, communication, a decent amount of industry (including coal & steel production, shipbuilding and British Leyland) were all nationalised. As such, there was no competition or incentive for improvement. Add in massive trade unions, often with ultra left-wing/communist leadership(eg; Scargill, McClusky), who had little interest in improving productivity, and were happy to strike if they didn't get their demands... and layer on a backdrop of a volatile economy, with frequent massive inflation (up to 30%) and corresponding interest rates (15%+).

I was born in 1967. Some of my earliest memories are coming home from school to the backouts, or rubbish piled up outside our front gate. My father was a fitter (electrician) in the pits in the early 70's. He got so sick of constantly being called out on strike and the effect this had on our family he eventually left... but this meant he then had to work away the majority of the time and we rarely saw him. Every nigh the news was filled with the industrial unrest.

Even 40+ years on, it still feels like a dark time..

The country needed radical economic and social reform, and that's what Thatcher did. The process wasn't quick, and it didn't happen without a massive amount of pain and social unrest, but she had the strength of character to carry through the massive changes needed.

She was a Prime Minister with principles, prepared to take unpopular decisions to deliver her long-term beliefs. Something I've not seen in any Prime Minister over the following 30 years.

Rubbish piled up outside your front gate? You were lucky you had rubbish! We dreamt of having a gate!

As I'm 10 years older than you, I remember walking to primary school with a scarf wrapped around my face to protect against the killing smog.

Of course, I hated Thatcher at the time, but I think, with hindsight, Thatcher tackled what ultimately had to be done & attacked the toxic mixture of entrenched upper-class privilege & union obstructionism that paralyzed the country. It seems to me that Blair was the overwhelming beneficiary of this, as he was able to govern from the centre after Thatcher had done all the dirty work.

I went to London University from 1977-80. It was a grim time in London - long after the days of "swinging London" & before any hint of "urban renewal". One of my strongest memories of that time was going to the cinema underneath the Brunswick Centre in Bloomsbury to watch the uber-depressing, dystopian Derek Jarman movie Jubilee. At that time the Brunswick was a recently completed modern, "Brutalist" council housing project ... but already run-down & decrepit. Back in the area a few years ago, the Brunswick centre is almost unrecognizable - a grade II listed building, with fancy boutiques & expensive, privately owned flats.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2006/oct/23/architecture.communities

 

[Stotty]

Rubbish piled up outside your front gate? You were lucky you had rubbish! We dreamt of having a gate!

As I'm 10 years older than you, I remember walking to primary school with a scarf wrapped around my face to protect against the killing smog.

Of course, I hated Thatcher at the time, but I think, with hindsight, Thatcher tackled what ultimately had to be done & attacked the toxic mixture of entrenched upper-class privilege & union obstructionism that paralyzed the country. It seems to me that Blair was the overwhelming beneficiary of this, as he was able to govern from the centre after Thatcher had done all the dirty work.

I went to London University from 1977-80. It was a grim time in London - long after the days of "swinging London" & before any hint of "urban renewal". One of my strongest memories of that time was going to the cinema underneath the Brunswick Centre in Bloomsbury to watch the uber-depressing, dystopian Derek Jarman movie Jubilee. At that time the Brunswick was a recently completed modern, "Brutalist" council housing project ... but already run-down & decrepit. Back in the area a few years ago, the Brunswick centre almost unrecognizable - a grade II listed building, with fancy boutiques & expensive, privately owned flats.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2006/oct/23/architecture.communities

I understand 'hated at the time' very well... I think one of the hardest times I remember for our family was the '84/85 miners strike. My uncle had worked in the pits all his life - he worked at the coalface before he was crippled in the Markham colliery disaster in '73 and he later became a foreman after recovering from his injuries enough to at least work again. His son (my cousin) worked at the face. When the '84 strike started, my Uncle was working at a pit in Nottinghamshire and the Notts miners didn't strike, but his son was in South Yorkshire, a member of the NUM and fully behind Scargill... it turned son against father and resulted in a massive family split.

I'm sure there are a lot of similar stories from that period, but reality was the nationalised industries were uncompetitive and not prepared to make the necessary changes. Breaking the miners strike was probably the key moment in the fight with the unions.

But without the Falklands war, she may not have won in '83 and we could have ended up with Michael Foot as PM. The Labour party at the time were as left as they had been for a long time and would have taken us straight back to the dark ages. Instead, she won a landslide and this gave her the power to finally break the unions once and for all.

Politics seems so boring nowadays!

Totally agree about Blair... and 70's architecture

 

[PeterJB]

Piers Morgan is now leaving GMB after receiving an avalanche of complaints after dismissing Meghan's claims of suicidal thoughts, and then walking off set this morning after being berated by weather reporter Alex Beresford.

I did enjoy his interrogations of government ministers, but 90% of the time he was incredibly annoying because he would never shut up, and he completely lost his mind during Dominic Cummingsgate.

 

[Liquid]

It's a work.

Keeps his stock high when he joins Gammon News.

 

[TenEightyOne]

See, I don't like Megan and I don't like Harry. I can see that Harry put his money where his mouth is in terms of military service, and I see him doing far more good for real people than some of the other krauts.

But I don't have to like her, or him, to know that people shouldn't get treated like *****, and that is seemingly what the royal family do. Megan shouted at aide? Investigation. Anne and Philip spend their whole lives doing the same? Gawd bless 'em, and think of the tourism they bring. Megan has family argument at 14? Eminently unsuitable to be a British Royal. Andrew has argument with family after shagging their fourteen year old daughter? He was in the Falklands, you know. Never broke a sweat.

I found the most interesting part of last night's interview to be the revelation that Harry's "father" stopped taking calls. As Harry turns more and more into James Hewitt are we starting to see enough tension in "The Firm"* that the full truth will out? The palace has always admitted that Hewittan insemination of the Royal vagina occured, just that the timing was off for the then-third-in-line to be another bastard.

* The Firm. A term coined by the tabloids to appeal to the cockerney geezer Daily Mail type who secretly likes the idea of a Royal cabal pullin' all the strings from that there Lahndan town, and now a phrase adopted by the family themselves to perpetuate this tabloid bollocks.

 

[Liquid]

 

[TexRex]

So did he leave the set and just keep walking?

 

[HenrySwanson]

 

[Rossell2]

I shall be henceforth referring to Morgan leaving as "Twexit"

 

[Famine]

Huh. He walks like Trump does. I don't think I've ever seen him actually move before.

Also, we've all always known about Piers Morgan. This was Have I Got News For You in - and read this twice - 1996:

​

He is a revolting human being.

 

[Liquid]

Always a hilarious clip to go back and watch.

I shall be henceforth referring to Morgan leaving as "Twexit"

I was thinking of a different Tw- word but okay.

 

[Moglet]

Huh. He walks like Trump does. I don't think I've ever seen him actually move before.

Also, we've all always known about Piers Morgan. This was Have I Got News For You in - and read this twice - 1996:

He is a revolting human being.

Huh...so it really has always been about being popular for him

 

[HenrySwanson]

Huh. He walks like Trump does. I don't think I've ever seen him actually move before.

Also, we've all always known about Piers Morgan. This was Have I Got News For You in - and read this twice - 1996:

​

He is a revolting human being.

Delving into the comments led me to this which I'm ashamed to admit I'd never seen before

 

[UKMikey]

The Green Party's Baroness Jones has appeared to make an arse of herself by reportedly calling for a 6pm curfew for men in the light of the murder of Sarah Everard.

As I understand it the point she was trying to make was that the police often call for women to stay indoors in situations like this and she was wondering how men would like it if they were the ones whose movement was restricted.

Nevertheless it sounds like a crassly constructed argument to me and I think the Greens should throw her under the bus and issue a press release distancing the party from Jones's remarks if they don't want to lose popularity. The press (Mail) seems to be doing everything it can to imply that a curfew is official Green policy which if the previous paragraph is correct couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[PeterJB]

Mark Drakeford talked about introducing a temporary curfew in Wales, and then very swiftly backtracked, presumably when he realised she may have not have been entirely sincere.

 

[UKMikey]

It doesn't sound like a clever way to make her point or at the very least one that can be easily misconstrued. It's like she read the Quintillian quote from my sig and proceeded to do the exact opposite.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Nevertheless it sounds like a crassly constructed argument to me and I think the Greens should throw her under the bus and issue a press release distancing the party from Jones's remarks if they don't want to lose popularity.

The greens popularity is basically irrelevant.

She made a point that needed making. I wouldn't think of it any further than that to be honest.

As for the wider issue of womens safety... I've not seen any constructive suggestions coming from any corner.

 

[UKMikey]

The greens popularity is basically irrelevant.

She made a point that needed making. I wouldn't think of it any further than that to be honest.

As for the wider issue of womens safety... I've not seen any constructive suggestions coming from any corner.

I'm not sure the right of centre press having an absolute field day misrepresenting her statement isn't getting in the way of the point she's trying to make.

Maybe I should've taken this to the media bias thread instead but they seem to be reporting the opposite of what she was trying to say. Every party needs publicity, even an irrelevant party and this sounds like the kind they don't need.