Britain - The Official Thread

  • Thread starter Ross
  • 13,359 comments
  • 616,706 views

How will you vote in the 2024 UK General Election?

  • Conservative Party

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Labour Party

    Votes: 14 48.3%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Other (Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland)

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Other Independents

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other Parties

    Votes: 2 6.9%

  • Spoiled Ballot

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Will Not/Cannot Vote

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .
merseyxshore
Despite him not wanting attention etc I really hope he does get into politics. He has absolutely decimated any journalist or Tory MP (and by necessary extension senior Labour MPs I suppose) in his way thus far, and remained calm and collected throughout. Even on all the usual right wing outlets the comments are almost blanket positive in favour of him. He makes Starmer look like a cardboard cutout.

Now let's have a general strike.
Click to expand...

GPs are now joining in on the fun, and Boris seems to think he can keep this charade up for another two and a half terms.
 
This is the key bit...

"Ms Sturgeon says she hopes proposing a referendum that is consultative and not self-executing will be deemed legal."

Which, according to the current Government, is still a democratic mandate, the will of the people, and must be delivered for the sake of democracy. I don't particularly want Scotland to leave, but the irony of how it plays out could be delicious. Having said that, a reduced UK house of commons, with the loss of the SNP, would reduce the opposition to a Tory government.
 
MatskiMonk
This is the key bit...

"Ms Sturgeon says she hopes proposing a referendum that is consultative and not self-executing will be deemed legal."

Which, according to the current Government, is still a democratic mandate, the will of the people, and must be delivered for the sake of democracy. I don't particularly want Scotland to leave, but the irony of how it plays out could be delicious. Having said that, a reduced UK house of commons, with the loss of the SNP, would reduce the opposition to a Tory government.
Click to expand...
I think they will vote to leave. And it could rarely be at a worse time. The economy is in a mess as it is and you wonder how it will cope with the shock of a leave vote and then with the separation itself. The complexities of the Scottish Union with the rest of the UK will make Brexit look like a walk in the park. Staggering to think than in just a few short years our nation will likely be torn in two and there will be a border between England and Scotland. Then there is the issue of the nuclear submarines and the importance of Scottish waters to the defence of the North Atlantic.

It's going to cost countless billions and leave everyone in the UK poorer. Still - democracy and all that. It is what it is.

It would appear I'm going to be someone who was born British, grew up European, and will die English.
 
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Daz555
You mean apart from him being a serial adulterer who is also corrupt, racist, incompetent and a compulsive liar?
Click to expand...
Judging from the balance of replies to this question, it would seem Johnson's personal qualities are the main beef against him. In terms of foreign policy, he is a lion up there with Churchill, being very aggressive against global enemies of democracy. In terms of social and economic problems they seem little changed from previous years, so no harm, no foul.
 
Dotini
Judging from the balance of replies to this question, it would seem Johnson's personal qualities are the main beef against him. In terms of foreign policy, he is a lion up there with Churchill, being very aggressive against global enemies of democracy. In terms of social and economic problems they seem little changed from previous years, so no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...
The trouble is, Johnson got to where he is relying on his personal qualities, but with very little in the way of genuine principles to help him actually carry out the role of PM, for which he is now being found out by the people who once supported him, including over 40% of his own MPs. Like his role model Trump, he firmly believes that his popularity gave him carte blanche to do and say whatever he likes, including breaking his own laws during the pandemic.

Among Johnson's biggest failings, however, is the total car crash that is Brexit. There was a reason his predecessor failed, and yet Johnson's solution was "if enough of you (idiots)* vote for me, I'll get it done" - he was both right and horribly wrong at the same time - he got a big enough mandate to allow him to pass some truly terrible legislation, and when I say "idiots", I mean that this is really what Johnson thinks of his own voters, not me. Johnson doesn't give a **** what anyone thinks about anything, and that's a huge problem. Even his apologies are fake, and yet his true attitudes generally stink. He tries to come over as Churchillian and as a strong leader with Conservative principles, and yet he says "F--- business!" (when it came to Brexit), that there would need to be "bodies piled high" before he imposed another lockdown (which of course he did anyway), and then both misled Parliament and blatantly and repeatedly lied about frequent parties being held at the top of Government while the rest of the country were not even allowed to visit dying relatives or attend their funerals. The biggest trouble with that is that Johnson simply doesn't understand why people are a bit annoyed with him about that.

Johnson relies on the support of sycophants, lobbyists and dodgy donors to shore him up, but that support is now collapsing as the chickens are coming home to roost on Brexit and several other things. Johnson continually crows about his success at handling the pandemic, whereas in truth, the UK has done pretty badly overall and the NHS is virtually crippled. The cost of living crisis is also something that Johnson is ill-equipped to handle in almost every conceivable way - all he has to say about it is that it is not his fault, which may be partly true, but doesn't help one iota.

-

On Scottish independence, I'm going to reply in the dedicated thread.
 
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Dotini
What is the main beef with Boris? Is it his personal foibles, domestic policy, or foreign policy?
Click to expand...
All of the above, plus his eminently punchable face.

He is a Tory of such a rigorously conniving nature that the worst conniving bastards in the history of that party of conniving bastards would hand the Falklands straight to Argentina if it meant never being mentioned in the same breath as him.
 
Dotini
Judging from the balance of replies to this question, it would seem Johnson's personal qualities are the main beef against him.
Click to expand...
And when those qualities are being a self-serving liar and racist they are very valid things to hold against him. Oh lets not also forget that his approach to policy is to go with whatever he believes will keep himself in power, regardless of the actual impact on the country as a whole.
Dotini
In terms of foreign policy, he is a lion up there with Churchill, being very aggressive against global enemies of democracy.
Click to expand...
It seems you know as much about Churchill as you do about the wider world view of America!

Churchill was so great that the country voted him out before WW2 had finished. Churchill was an effective war leader because he listened to those around him, but he was also a racist (even by the standards of the day - lest some try and pull that strawman out)...

en.wikipedia.org

Racial views of Winston Churchill - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

...fun fact, Churchill's most famous speech, extoling that we 'fight them on the beeches', was stolen heavily influenced (being kind to Churchill) from a Robert Emmett's Speech from the Dock. Which is stunning given that Emmett was a staunch Irish Republican, who gave the speech during his trial for treason against the British (surprise he was found guilty and executed), and Churchill's role in suppressing the Irish.
Dotini
In terms of social and economic problems they seem little changed from previous years, so no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...
Given the damage the Tories have done to both during the last decade, it's quite significant harm and foul.
 
Last edited:
Dotini
Judging from the balance of replies to this question, it would seem Johnson's personal qualities are the main beef against him. In terms of foreign policy, he is a lion up there with Churchill, being very aggressive against global enemies of democracy. In terms of social and economic problems they seem little changed from previous years, so no harm, no foul.
Click to expand...
Being a corrupt liar should disqualify him from leadership. That he is still in power shows how far democracy in the UK has fallen - sadly following the lead from our cousins on the other side of the pond.
 
So, the electorate is divided over the social and economic benefits, rallies around the flag in favor of a land war in Europe, and hates him personally. On balance, he stays in office.
 
Dotini
Does this push for fascism come with social and economic benefits as compensation?
Click to expand...
People that support the governing party and the leader think it will.

I can't think of a better way of expressing the overriding politcal mindset in the UK than this cartoon...

1656511735687.png


... except replacing Murdoch with any number of leading UK political figures.

I don't think there's even a pretense that things like the Policing Bill, the Elections Bill, Nationality and borders Bill, the Judicial review Bill, the Brexit Freedoms bill... abolishing the Human rights act, breaking international laws we negotiated... are for genuine social or economic benefit.

Nationalism gripped the nation thanks to Brexit, and I'd imagine, for many British Nationalists, Boris is a god send.
 
Dotini
So, the electorate is divided over the social and economic benefits, rallies around the flag in favor of a land war in Europe, and hates him personally. On balance, he stays in office.
Click to expand...
No, just no.

Can you please just stop making crap up, his approval rating is around 24%, he stays in office because it's beneficial to his party (currently), not because of any great support among the population.

yougov.co.uk

How well is Boris Johnson doing as Prime Minister?

Do you think that Boris Johnson is doing well or badly as Prime Minister?
yougov.co.uk yougov.co.uk
 
I've learned a few new and interesting things here: The governing UK party and highly aggressive leader are pushing for fascism. More importantly, we live in a multipolar world, hence there is plenty of uncontested space for fascists, racists and tyrants to multiply.
 

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