Britain - The Official Thread

[ExigeEvan]

I suppose you missed the issue of where active Nazi's were banned from holding any public job or owning buisness or forming a party in Germany by both the soviets and France,Britain and America after the war to stop it happening again? That was justified as it stopped the same thing happening again.

Which was 60 years ago...

Similarly I also attended a Student Union General Meeting where it was stated UAF (Unite Against Facism) protesters were only arrested at a demonstration in greater numbers than EDL and WDL members at a particular protest because the Defence League members had been instructed in how not to get arrested.

Unsurprisingly, this passes as a plausible excuse in a student union.

[EDIT] 3 Welshies in a Britain thread, this could go far...

 

[TankAss95]

considering i work in politics its disappointing to see how ill-informed the British public often are

Considering you work in "politics" it's disappointing how you forget to use punctuation in your posts.

 

[Liquid]

3 Welshies in a Britain thread, this could go far...

I like how our devolved budget is calculated based on 1979 which has not been updated to reflect modern times.

Underfunded proportionally, and the Assembly and local councils still managed to commit gross acts of wasted money. But I enjoy my free NHS perscriptons.

Eh, there are uniquely Welsh things that could be discussed like the language division and the general North/South divide, but I feel that would dilute the thread.

Let's set holiday homes on fire instead.

 

[Lizard]

Enlighten us.

Yes please do.

 

[ExigeEvan]

But I enjoy my free NHS perscriptons.

Winds up the English students like nothing else...

Eh, there are uniquely Welsh things that could be discussed like the language division and the general North/South divide, but I feel that would dilute the thread.

I've had a few discussions on the Welsh language, particularly with Cornish people. They're quite resentful of it, one even went so far as to claim it was a dying language despite the facts clearly showing an increase in speakers and increase in demand for Welsh school places.

Let's set holiday homes on fire instead.

I was planning to go to Tenby next week...

 

[TyrrellRacing]

As a Welsh student currently being required to learn Welsh, I can tell you that out of the 200 or so students in my year you could count the ones who actually want to learn Welsh with your fingers.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Winds up the English students like nothing else...

Why?

 

[ExigeEvan]

As a Welsh student currently being required to learn Welsh, I can tell you that out of the 200 or so students in my year you could count the ones who actually want to learn Welsh with your fingers.

Which may very well be the case, but parents are greatly in favour of Welsh Language schools (even where neither parent speaks Welsh), mostly for their higher standards.

Do I wish I spoke Welsh to a higher standard, yes. I hope to find the time to take evening classes and would send my children there if I had the chance.

Why?

Because non-Welsh students, even with a Welsh Doctor, require an entitlement card to get theirs free.

Even £6 can be a lot for a student. Almost a night out. Also err, when you need them because you didn't use a condom it adds insult to injury. And finally, they generally held the opinion that it was the English tax payer that funds it.

 

[Pagey279]

Pretty pissed off at the minute, the tanker driver strike has left everything a pretty sticky situation.
Everyones panic buying, and filling up their tanks when they don't need to, just because some MP told them to, so now cannot find a petrol station with any unleaded, and my red light has just come on.

 

[DK]

As a Welsh student currently being required to learn Welsh, I can tell you that out of the 200 or so students in my year you could count the ones who actually want to learn Welsh with your fingers.

Kinda reminds me of the situation with the Irish language in my school. OK, you might need to count some of your toes as well, but still that's far from a majority. There's more Poles in Ireland (according to the 2011 Census) than Irish-speakers, so that's saying something.

 

[lbsf1]

Pretty pissed off at the minute, the tanker driver strike has left everything a pretty sticky situation.
Everyones panic buying, and filling up their tanks when they don't need to, just because some MP told them to, so now cannot find a petrol station with any unleaded, and my red light has just come on.

The tanker drivers haven't even officially said they are going to strike, they just said they were considering it possibly on easter weekend.

Because of the already high prices of petrol people worried that they wouldn't be able to afford it if prices went up. The government then backfired by telling us to keep our tanks filled up, which means some people are just putting in £5 at a time and causing the queues. The government would have been best to remind us that the strike isn't even official yet and there will have to be a warning before the strike happens so why panic now.

The problem is also escalated by the fact that in the North West one of shells refinery's isn't working so there is lots of extra load on the remaining one, to a point where they were struggling with demand even before this scare.

 

[Liquid]

Which may very well be the case, but parents are greatly in favour of Welsh Language schools (even where neither parent speaks Welsh), mostly for their higher standards.

English is their first language but my parents went through Welsh language schools, as did I until I was 6. It gave me an extra edge learning the excuse they call Welsh second language in high school. I can't speak for the rest of the country, but I live in the most English part of North Wales and they barely teach it you.

Do I wish I spoke Welsh to a higher standard, yes. I hope to find the time to take evening classes and would send my children there if I had the chance.

Same. Back to Bangor in September and I'm definitely going to pick it up again. I've already got a B at full-course GCSE level, and have sporadic conversations with my parents in Welsh.

Over 20% of us speak Welsh, and it's becoming a more and more popular year on year. It only stagnated thanks to years of absolute suppresion by the English, not due to it 'dying out', per say. It gives us greater identity; I do sometimes feel that there is an identity crisis in Wales.

I like languages and take Welsh as being something fun and interesting. Also something to write on your CV. Regardless if it's pretty much useless outside of Wales, it shows you have learning skills. I'm learning Dutch too and that's not much use outside of the Netherlands. (I wouldn't stand a chance with Afrikaans)

---

I've not lived in the country since August so I haven't been keeping up to date with all the goings on, but I watch PMQ religiously to keep abreast of the mainstream politics. I'm out of the loop of any Sir Humphrey stuff , having not read Private Eye in a long time.

A potential tanker strike. Panic buying and jumping to conclusions? That's so unlike us (!)

 

[Famine]

Over 20% of us speak Welsh, and it's becoming a more and more popular year on year. It only stagnated thanks to years of absolute suppresion by the English, not due to it 'dying out', per say.

In many respects it did, just it was 400 years ago.

The language was decaying rather than evolving and, yes, probably supplanted by English. Without a real written standard of the language, there wasn't a foundation to preserve it. It was William Morgan (Bishop of Llandaff and St. Asaph) who, in translating the Bible into Welsh in the late 16th Century, established a new standard - much of it literally new, though he was a student of Middle Welsh - of Late Modern Welsh that exists still today.

Without that... Welsh language would probably be dead or of a similar niche to Breton.

 

[Liquid]

In many respects it did, just it was 400 years ago.

The language was decaying rather than evolving and, yes, probably supplanted by English. Without a real written standard of the language, there wasn't a foundation to preserve it. It was William Morgan (Bishop of Llandaff and St. Asaph) who, in translating the Bible into Welsh in the late 16th Century, established a new standard - much of it literally new, though he was a student of Middle Welsh - of Late Modern Welsh that exists still today.

Without that... Welsh language would probably be dead or of a similar niche to Breton.

All true. It was the Welsh Bible that led to us dropping K and V from our alphabet.

Welsh is a minority language. But on a larger scale than Breton, Cornish or Pensylvanian German. Persistance has kept it alive. I meant that it didn't die out in the sense that the people who spoke the language all suddenly died or something, it was forcefully displaced by English.

Most languages are integrating English words into them. Either English or Chinese will dominate the next two centuries. 'English' as a definitive, standardised language itself is dying to an extent. Panglish is the lingua franca in many countries, and the vocabulary, pronunciation and spelling differs depending where you are. It's a slow but steady process.

While efforts may be made to preserve languages that are almost, and I stress almost, exclusive to one country such as Hungarian, Dutch, Azeri, Italian and so on, it's quite possible that globalisation will lead to several languages either dying out or becoming less important. Not now, not in 10 years, but eventually.

That's my prediction, anyway.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

I'm not saying that I want Welsh to die out, just that it shouldn't be compulsory in english speaking schools. If what you say about an increasingly higher amount of parents wanting their children to go to Welsh schools, then the language dying out isn't a likely scenario.

As it stands 2 hours a week are dedicated to Welsh in my school. Most of the lesson consists of everybody arguing with the teacher about how pointless it is. It angers me that we're wasting these hours when they could be spent learning about actually useful subjects. I'm almost certain my county has one of the poorest maths and english standards. No surprise when hours dedicated to said subjects are being increasingly limited because of learning a language which hardly anybody wants to learn around here.

In my view, Welsh should be treated the same as German, French or any other non-compulsory language - available to learn but not forced.

 

[F1 fan]

In my view, Welsh should be treated the same as German, French or any other non-compulsory language - available to learn but not forced.

French was definitely forced at my Schools. Six years of it, all mandatory. For the record, I have been learning German and Japanese at my own leisure, but I had no interest in learning French, and still don't. German was only an option for the last two years of school, which I couldn't attend due to circumstance.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

In my school one language (German, French or Spanish) is mandatory for the first 3 years, after that they're options for GCSE for the last 2 years. Welsh is compulsory for all 5 whether you like it or not. This includes extra lessons in half terms etc.

 

[ExigeEvan]

I'm not saying that I want Welsh to die out, just that it shouldn't be compulsory in english speaking schools. If what you say about an increasingly higher amount of parents wanting their children to go to Welsh schools, then the language dying out isn't a likely scenario.

As it stands 2 hours a week are dedicated to Welsh in my school. Most of the lesson consists of everybody arguing with the teacher about how pointless it is. It angers me that we're wasting these hours when they could be spent learning about actually useful subjects. I'm almost certain my county has one of the poorest maths and english standards. No surprise when hours dedicated to said subjects are being increasingly limited because of learning a language which hardly anybody wants to learn around here.

In my view, Welsh should be treated the same as German, French or any other non-compulsory language - available to learn but not forced.

You may feel like that now, I did. I only got an A in short-course Welsh because I didn't want to spoil my straight A-A* results.

But you may find when you get older that speaking Welsh is very much a matter of national identity. Despite not learning Welsh for nearly 6 years I probably speak more Welsh on a daily basis than I did then. Even if it's "pam?","beth sy'n bod?" or "dw i siarad tipyn bach" (Which I have to say quite often with a welsh-ish name on my work badge).

My listening skills are quite good though, a female friend (Welsh schooled) of mine was once discussing her joy at going up a bra size (A to B) to my girlfriend (also Welsh schooled) quite openly assuming that no one else would understand, and somehow I managed to work out exactly what they were talking about

 

[E28]

In my school one language (German, French or Spanish) is mandatory for the first 3 years, after that they're options for GCSE for the last 2 years. Welsh is compulsory for all 5 whether you like it or not. This includes extra lessons in half terms etc.

At mine French is mandatory for the first 3 years, but in the 2nd year you have to choose between Spanish or German which you will then begin learning alongside French.

 

[Liquid]

On a related tangent with the national curriculum, what were you guys taught in English?

One thing I was definitely not taught was grammar. A few basic ideas such as similies and recognising adverbs was as advanced as it got. I can tell you that without knowing and understanding English grammar, it's difficult to understand the grammar of a foreign language.

In order to learn German, these are the things I have had to learn: conjugation, inflection, prepositions, nominative case, accusative case, genative case, dative case, locative case, active voice, passive voice, conjunctions, subordinating conjunctions, main clauses, subordinating clauses, relative clauses, personal pronouns, possesive pronouns, relative pronouns, pluperfect tense, perfect tense, future perfect tense, conditional tense, continous present tense, auxiliary verbs, modal verbs, emphatic adverbs and many more things I can't immediately think of. I wasn't taught any of those things in school, 6th form or university. I've studied and looked them up in my own time.

How much of that did you learn in school? For those of us who learn languages it's pretty difficult being told, "This is how you write the passive in German", if you have absolutely no idea what the passive is in English. It's hard to compare the two things.

Furthermore, if people were taught grammar in school better or properly, then we wouldn't have people saying/writing things such as would of, could of and should of. Those are constructions which are just so grammatically incorrect it's unbearable.

 

[Emptyone]

I haven't been taught grammar since year 6 in school terms. Ever since then until I could drop it that was what we were left with, I have no recollection of ever spending time on it.

 

[PeterJB]

I was taught spelling for 12 years, it wasn't exactly difficult though.

 

[Liquid]

I was taught spelling for 12 years, it wasn't exactly difficult though.

And all this..?

conjugation, inflection, prepositions, nominative case, accusative case, genative case, dative case, locative case, active voice, passive voice, conjunctions, subordinating conjunctions, main clauses, subordinating clauses, relative clauses, personal pronouns, possesive pronouns, relative pronouns, pluperfect tense, perfect tense, future perfect tense, conditional tense, continous present tense, auxiliary verbs, modal verbs, emphatic adverbs and many more things I can't immediately think of

 

[PeterJB]

I remember being taught past, present and future tense as well. I haven't even heard of most of the stuff in your list.

 

[TankAss95]

On a related tangent with the national curriculum, what were you guys taught in English?

One thing I was definitely not taught was grammar. A few basic ideas such as similies and recognising adverbs was as advanced as it got. I can tell you that without knowing and understanding English grammar, it's difficult to understand the grammar of a foreign language.

In order to learn German, these are the things I have had to learn: conjugation, inflection, prepositions, nominative case, accusative case, genative case, dative case, locative case, active voice, passive voice, conjunctions, subordinating conjunctions, main clauses, subordinating clauses, relative clauses, personal pronouns, possesive pronouns, relative pronouns, pluperfect tense, perfect tense, future perfect tense, conditional tense, continous present tense, auxiliary verbs, modal verbs, emphatic adverbs and many more things I can't immediately think of. I wasn't taught any of those things in school, 6th form or university. I've studied and looked them up in my own time.

How much of that did you learn in school? For those of us who learn languages it's pretty difficult being told, "This is how you write the passive in German", if you have absolutely no idea what the passive is in English. It's hard to compare the two things.

Furthermore, if people were taught grammar in school better or properly, then we wouldn't have people saying/writing things such as would of, could of and should of. Those are constructions which are just so grammatically incorrect it's unbearable.

I still don't know a respectable level of grammar.
I remember when I was being taught French at school (no choice btw). We started doing grammar and I was like, "I don't know 🤬 English grammar anyway, how on earth am I going to do this?"

 

[F1 fan]

I remember being taught past, present and future tense as well. I haven't even heard of most of the stuff in your list.

Likewise. I'm hoping to become an English as a foreign language teacher. I'm having to study grammar labels though. Personally, I can look at a passage and tell you what is grammatically incorrect, but the labels other than past, present and future are all new to me.

 

[Liquid]

Likewise. I'm hoping to become an English as a foreign language teacher. I'm having to study grammar labels though. Personally, I can look at a passage and tell you what is grammatically incorrect, but the labels other than past, present and future are all new to me.

Feel free to ask if you want to know what any of the terms which I listed are.

So yeah, it's reasons like the above which are why I want changes to the curriculum and that was just one example in one subject. (With a knock-on effect in other language subjects)

I also think it would be useful to teach kids more practical and useful things, like how to wire a plug. A handy thing to know given how many plugs and wires there are in our homes these days.

 

[Nessy]

On a related tangent with the national curriculum, what were you guys taught in English?

One thing I was definitely not taught was grammar. A few basic ideas such as similies and recognising adverbs was as advanced as it got. I can tell you that without knowing and understanding English grammar, it's difficult to understand the grammar of a foreign language.

My English is (most of the time) terrible, i tend to struggle with the basics quite a bit. I believe basic grammar was taught in my school, but unfortunately due to truancy i missed out on far too much, i haven't got a clue what an adverb or similies are, infact whilst at school i think i only ever completed one essay, which is quite shameful really.

I would love to learn a foreign language, but as you have pointed out, it would be difficult without having a grasp of English grammar first. I know i really should enroll on an evening course or something, but the thing that puts me off is, i struggle a lot when it comes to learning (usually a case of: in one ear, out the other).

To me, learning English/grammar is one of life's hurdles, but i do find that posting on GTP is helping me a bit (it's the most writing iv'e ever done in my life), i really would like to comment more in these discussion threads, but i have trouble of putting my views into words (if that makes any sense), i think it's mainly down to my poor structure, grammar and lack of vocabulary, and a lot of the time i don't understand what people have written, i find i really do need for things to be broken down into layman's terms, and i appreciate when people do so.

PS
Sorry for straying a bit too far off topic and adding nothing of real value to the discussion.

BTW, it took me nearly an hour to write this (no joke)... just to give example of how much i struggle with my English.

 

[Keef]

So what's the deal with this fuel crisis thing?

 

[Liquid]

I don't know for sure, but I'm under the impression that our tank drivers might go on strike.

So everybody paniced and bought all the fuel we currently have and here we are, no petrol for the ambulances it seems.