Britain - The Official Thread

[Famine]

I flirted briefly with the church, or more accurately a chorister therein.

Why don't you take a seat... over there?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Why don't you take a seat... over there?

Haha, I so didn't think that through

She was buxom and doe-eyed, and had the voice of an angel, as if it mattered much to me at 15.

 

[ExigeEvan]

You didn't know about that? I thought everyone in Britain knew about that. Especially as you are offered insurance against it.
Although yes it sucks.

I don't imagine the majority of us live near such an old church!

 

[Famine]

My old local dates to 1500, but has been a church of sorts since the 7th Century - it's only the current building that is so young.

My current local predates the Domesday Book, but doesn't have a chancel. Or much of anything.

 

[homeforsummer]

I have absolutely no idea where my nearest church is. I know of a couple within a mile or so, but there's also a village nearby and there may be one there. I've never checked.

I don't live near enough to a church that bells are audible at different times, anyway.

Edit: Indeed, upon closer inspection I'm only around half a mile from the nearest, as the crow flies.

 

[Pagey279]

There's tonnes of churches in my town of Frome, the earliest dating from the 12th century I think. Some from the 17th.

And then there's this monstrosity:

I'm pretty sure it's some portacabins bolted together with a porch built on the front.

 

[PeterJB]

Corsham has an Anglican, Methodist and a Baptist church. Chichester has several as well as the cathedral which can be seen from quite literally anywhere in Chichester.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I have absolutely no idea where my nearest church is. I know of a couple within a mile or so, but there's also a village nearby and there may be one there. I've never checked.

I don't live near enough to a church that bells are audible at different times, anyway.

Edit: Indeed, upon closer inspection I'm only around half a mile from the nearest, as the crow flies.

But if you own your house then you must know if it's in a parish or not?

@Pagey279 ewww, just ewww

 

[homeforsummer]

But if you own your house then you must know if it's in a parish or not?

I don't own the house, but I've no idea why you think I should know if it's in a parish or not. It's completely irrelevant to day-to-day life. I literally have no involvement with the church whatsoever. I don't even know what parishes either of my schools were in, and they were both catholic schools.

 

[Famine]

With the exception of cities and a handful of unparished communities, everything's in a parish. Local government is basically run on parishes.

The problem here is when the houses are in an ecclesiastical parish, rather than a civil one. Ecclesiastical parishes retain these daft rules but civil parishes came into existence in the 19th Century precisely to get rid of them. Also, good news, ecclesiastical parishes can overlap civil ones. Also, more good news, there is no complete list of ecclesiastical parishes available - though I imagine the Parochial Church Council keeps one - so there's no way for you to know. Probably because the parish is public record and the church is a private institution that can keep its secrets - which means we shouldn't have to 🤬 pay for it unless we choose to.

Bastards.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I don't own the house, but I've no idea why you think I should know if it's in a parish or not. It's completely irrelevant to day-to-day life. I literally have no involvement with the church whatsoever. I don't even know what parishes either of my schools were in, and they were both catholic schools.

Mostly tree'd by @Famine

If you were a homeowner you would know where your house was and who your liabilities were to from that short, expense phase when you actually go through the pain of acquiring the bloody thing. In areas with a parish council (about a quarter of the country, I think), you're wise to take insurance against extraordinary liabilities to that council. It's normal to do and your estate agent or solicitor should warn you of that as part of their "doings". It's likely that you will pay an extra amount of Council Tax for this which is another way that you'll be aware.

I don't see that knowing anything about the local church is really importany; if the nature of your parish is significant in financial terms then it's unlikely that you wouldn't know about it. With the reported cases I wonder if people simply didn't insure themselves and are now pleading ignorance. But only because I'm so cynical.

 

[Famine]

No, you misunderstand.

Civil parishes (as set up by the Local Government Act) and Ecclesiastical parishes are different things, often with the same name and similar boundaries - and it's Ecclesiastical parishes that will levy the Chancel Repair Liability.


My old hometown is part of the Ecclesfield Civil Parish, which covers the towns of High Green, Thorncliffe, Chapeltown, Burncross, Grenoside and Ecclesfield in Sheffield. This is also the combined electoral wards of West Ecclesfield (High Green, Burncross, Thorncliffe) and East Ecclesfield (Chapeltown, Ecclesfield) in the Sheffield Hillsborough constituency. Ecclesfield Civil Parish is a subdivision of local government and you can see the boundaries on this pdf.

Ecclesfield's Ecclesiastical Parish is St Marys Ecclesfield, centred on that church I mentioned earlier. You can see from the boundaries here that the Ecclesiastical Parish stretches east into Thorpe Hesley (which is in the Civil Parish of Wentworth) and doesn't cover Burncross, High Green or Grenoside.


People who live in Thorpe Hesley could thus be eligible for CRL of the Ecclesfield parish (ecclesiastical) despite being in the Wentworth parish (civil), while folk in High Green who live in the Ecclesfield parish (civil) won't be because they aren't in the Ecclesfield parish (ecclesiastical).

I no longer live in the area. I own the parts of my house the bank doesn't own. I can tell you without hesitation which civil parish I'm in, but which ecclesiastical parish? Not a clue.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Blimey, that's interesting - I need to get the big dusty paperwork folder out. Or the "dirty book", as I call it when Vicar is here for tea.

I know that I have insurance against extra liabilities to the parish and my presumption* was that it covered against the payments for the same parish that has an addition on my Council Tax. At the time that the remarkably shiny 12 year old who masqueraded as a S'licit-uh explained it to me it was to cover unforseen liabilities such as repairing the church. So I'm guessing* that it covers this.

Also presuming* that the insurance company know better than I what they're doing (they're 'mostly' convincing in that respect) my insurance will cover that. But now I just don't actually know. Now instead of being cynical I'm wondering if the poor loves had the same insurance as me? Parp.


* Presumption, the mother of all ****-ups

 

[homeforsummer]

Yup, I was referring to ecclesiastical parishes, and assumed everyone else was too since we were talking about churches. I still have no idea which parish I'm in, in that regard.

 

[BobK]

So, what happens if you refuse to pay this church levy?

 

[TenEightyOne]

So, what happens if you refuse to pay this church levy?

You go... you know... (points at ground)...

It's a legally enforceable tax, you'd be forced to pay the debt like any other tax debt I imagine. Ultimately that could end up costing you your house (or the bit you own).

 

[BobK]

Now you see why we like our guns in the US.

 

[Touring Mars]

This is Grant Shapps' idea of a joke...

https://twitter.com/grantshapps/status/446363611972534272/photo/1

 

[DK]

Obviously, the Tories are targeting the elderly with the bingo tax cuts. They don't worry about Cameron's attempts at recreating Hadrian's Wall in cyberspace.

 

[TheCracker]

Yup, I was referring to ecclesiastical parishes, and assumed everyone else was too since we were talking about churches. I still have no idea which parish I'm in, in that regard.

St Mark's or St Robert's (Pannel) i'd imagine.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Less Beer Duty? WHERE DO I VOTE!

 

[TheCracker]

Less Beer Duty? WHERE DO I VOTE!

Buy 294, get 1 free. Bargain.

 

[Robin]

Our upcoming new £1 coin, nice and angular! Due 2017 though Seriously the slow speed at which things get done is crazy, not that I'm for or against it but look at HS2.... China built the equivalent of HS2 in 2 years!

Complaints that every shopping trolley and coin operated machine in the country will have to be changed. Will probably end up costing more than the loss due to counterfeiting.

 

[Liquid]

China built the equivalent of HS2 in 2 years!

Do you want backbreaking slave labour?

I suppose if you are a militaristic commune, you don't have as much red tape (no pun) or regard for land destruction.

 

[FussyFez]

Lots of churches in watford.

I for one love the architecture, but am not in slightest bit religious.

I do enjoy some of the stories though. Visited Clophill church a few times in the depths of the night to scare myself.

St Marys in the town centre has an interesting story. An atheist was buried there (in a tomb) , with the request that something be buried with him, that may germinate if there is life after death.

A fig tree seed was buried with him, and after a few months, the 'roof' of the tomb was dislodged by a fig try, growing from the tomb.

It attracted many visitors in the victorian era, with each one taking a twig from the tree for good luck.

The tree is long gone, but the tomb remains.


Lots of interesting tales surrounding many of my local churches.


I've no idea what parish I live in. Garston maybe?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Buy 294, get 1 free. Bargain.

It's like a Scottish loyalty card.

 

[homeforsummer]

This is where I come in and say that I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about on this poster.

People are trying to make out like it's a typical example of Tories pigeonholing the working classes, but I just can't see it as that.

Admittedly I'm probably not considered working class, and I don't play bingo, but if you read the simple sentence at the end of the poster without any preconceptions there's very little wrong with it. People like bingo. People like drinking beer. These are both things people enjoy doing, and they're both things that many people do to unwind after work.

Here's the other thing I suspect: Those making a big deal out of it are probably professional middle-class complainers who'd rather criticize something positive based on preconceptions than getting on with their own lives. Or indeed, Labour and Lib-Dem politicians, which is sort of the same thing. Frankly I could imagine either party putting out an identical poster after cutting booze and bingo duty and nobody batting an eyelid.

On a semi-related note, I did hear a Tory politician on the radio today saying something more sensible than any politician has said in years, regarding the new pension rules. It was along the lines of "these people are adults, let them make their own decisions on how to spend their pensions - it isn't the government's business telling them how to spend their money". I almost crashed the car in delight.

 

[ExigeEvan]

On a semi-related note, I did hear a Tory politician on the radio today saying something more sensible than any politician has said in years, regarding the new pension rules. It was along the lines of "these people are adults, let them make their own decisions on how to spend their pensions - it isn't the government's business telling them how to spend their money". I almost crashed the car in delight.

I completely agree. However, I also know that there are people seeing this as an ideal opportunity to unfairly profit from these decisions.

 

[TenEightyOne]

This is where I come in and say that I honestly can't see what all the fuss is about on this poster.

People are trying to make out like it's a typical example of Tories pigeonholing the working classes, but I just can't see it as that.

Firstly, it's very "Viz". I've included a spoof from the BBC pages, it's actually very hard to tell the two apart in terms of intent.

The poster picks two things that are perennially linked with a comedic working-class stereotype; beer and bingo. If they'd added chips, illegitimacy or fighting then nothing would have seemed out of place.

And who's it addressed to? Not the reader, it points out that "they" are going to get "more of the things they enjoy". Drinking and gambling. A government campaign that says "they" will get more drinking and gambling, isn't that absolutely super and let's put it on a National Lottery style poster for the ones who can't read.

It all seems to be in even worse taste when you consider the commitment of all the major parties to police gambling more thoroughly and to try to reduce the number of people becoming involved every year.

Here's the other thing I suspect: Those making a big deal out of it are probably professional middle-class complainers who'd rather criticize something positive based on preconceptions than getting on with their own lives. Or indeed, Labour and Lib-Dem politicians, which is sort of the same thing. Frankly I could imagine either party putting out an identical poster after cutting booze and bingo duty and nobody batting an eyelid.

No, I don't think that your imagination would reflect how it would be in the real world. The policy itself may be a good one (that's another debate) but the publicity itself stinks. Bear in mind this is a Liberal policy too (to quote the Rodent, "our policy, their words").

On a semi-related note, I did hear a Tory politician on the radio today saying something more sensible than any politician has said in years, regarding the new pension rules. It was along the lines of "these people are adults, let them make their own decisions on how to spend their pensions - it isn't the government's business telling them how to spend their money". I almost crashed the car in delight.

Quite right too, I don't think that was ever in doubt was it? The embarrassment for the government seems to be that while they try hard to identify themselves with people on salaries under £100k they seem to keep putting their Savile Row brogues in it. The disastrous last-ditch attempt to pump some blood through Britain's financial corpse should have been sold with something a bit less gauche than the promise of a new Lamborghini.

Incidentally, my politics are reasonably central, I consider myself working class, I wouldn't vote for Labour (did last time, but that was a protest and a dead vote for the constituency), I like bitter but I don't gamble. I find this poster discriminatory and, in my opinion, offensive. It represents a very-dropped bollock.

 

[Touring Mars]

As another friend of mine pointed out, it's the "they" that's the kicker...