Britain - The Official Thread

[TenEightyOne]

Now, apparently you forgot that communism existed when you said that fascism absolutely is the preserve of the right-wing only and there'd never been any non right-wing implementations of fascism:and that's fine, but you were corrected. You clearly now remember that communism exists and that fascism can be left-wing too:Which, I'll note again, is neither what I said nor accurate.

I reconsidered Communism after you pointed it out, but again there's a clear dichotomy between the academic definition and the practical actuality. I know you find that statement to be meaningless but I check all the wurds and they proper

Since you now accept that fascism is neither intrinsically left nor right wing, why you keep insisting that my statement that fascism is independent of left/right ideology is not a fact and mere opinion?

As an ideology it stands independently, I still don't find any practical examples where it stood so.

What are you even arguing against?

Your misappropriation of pure academic understanding in both the contexts of practical politics and it's weight on casual one-time jokes.

And why did you decide to abandon that...

I don't believe I did...

...and start taking character measurements on what sort of tavern patron I'd be?

That was purely from personal experience. The Bloke in The Pub who "cleverly" fact checks a joke is often the same person with an encyclopaedic knowledge of Which Junction You Should Have Come Off At.

That was an unfair parallel based on people who, in my experience alone, take what I perceive to be the same professorial approach to casual humour.

Do you have any content to add or can we expect more of the usual?

To be clear; who are "we" and what is the "usual"?

 

[Roger the Horse]

The only somewhat Wikipedia assisted guide to two dimensional politics:

 

[Famine]

I reconsidered Communism after you pointed it out, but again there's a clear dichotomy between the academic definition and the practical actuality.

[Citation needed]

I can save you some time of course.

Academic
Can people believe in free markets, low tax rates and a strong police state? Yes
Can people believe in collectivism, nationalisation and a strong police state? Yes
Fascism != Left; Fascism != Right

Practical
Have states existed with minimal government spending on social programs but a strong police state? Yes
Have states existed with massive government spending on social programs but a strong police state? Yes
Fascism != Left; Fascism != Right

Fascism is independent of left/right ideology, both academically and practically.

As an ideology it stands independently, I still don't find any practical examples where it stood so.

Sure. I mean, you've only had Stalinism (extreme left), Communism (hard left) and Nazism (centrist) as examples of centre and left fascism in practice. Since you asserted it's obligately right-wing originally I'm sure you can find some practically implemented right-wing fascists too.

So it looks like it's practically independent too. Seriously, why are you still posting about this?

Your misappropriation of pure academic understanding in both the contexts of practical politics and it's weight on casual one-time jokes.

Great.

I said the Bingo chart wasn't "scarily accurate", as Roger put it, because it confused fascism with right-wing. You agree completely I note. So you're not actually arguing against anything.

I don't believe I did...

Indeed you did when you decided you could discuss people, not points.

That was purely from personal experience. The Bloke in The Pub who "cleverly" fact checks a joke is often the same person with an encyclopaedic knowledge of Which Junction You Should Have Come Off At.

That was an unfair parallel based on people who, in my experience alone, take what I perceive to be the same professorial approach to casual humour.

The question wasn't what your character measurements were but why you decided to start making them.

To be clear; who are "we" and what is the "usual"?

Readers of the thread; Meaningless non-content that no-one is any the better for reading.

Since you're now completely on board with the fact that in theory and in practice, extreme authoritarianism in both ideals and implementation is not only not the sole preserve of the right wing and in fact can be seen in political ideals, parties and governments across the economic spectrum, you're in total agreement with me. This is fortunate as you're in total agreement with reality too. I hope to see no further posts from you disagreeing with yourself - that'd be just weird.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Readers of the thread; Meaningless non-content that no-one is any the better for reading.

Ah, the age-old @Famine response to disagreement. Fair do's, I'm out.

 

[Famine]

Ah, the age-old @Famine response to disagreement. Fair do's, I'm out.

Just to be clear, no-one would have thought any the less of you for going "Oh yes, the communists. They were quite fond of the fascism as I recall, what with the shooting people trying to cross the Wall and stuff. Quite right." six hours ago, without all this silliness.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Just to be clear, no-one would have thought any the less of you for going "Oh yes, the communists. They were quite fond of the fascism as I recall, what with the shooting people trying to cross the Wall and stuff. Quite right." six hours ago, without all this silliness.

In fairness I retract it all and shall reconsider. And yes, I wish I had put that response. Let's move on veeeery quietly

 

[Liquid]

@Famine I don't have it at hand because I'm om mobile but the diamond diagram showing anarchism/fascism being up/down and socialism/capitalism as left/right would be useful.

I've seen it posted either here or the USA thread a couple of times.

 

[Spurgy 777]

@Famine I don't have it at hand because I'm om mobile but the diamond diagram showing anarchism/fascism being up/down and socialism/capitalism as left/right would be useful.

I've seen it posted either here or the USA thread a couple of times.

Look up a few posts and you'll see it

 

[Famine]

There's a few. Roger posted the base diagram with axes, there's also the Political Compass (which is the same, but the quadrants are coloured in) and there's another diamond-shaped one with libertarianism at the top, looking down on everyone else...

 

[Roger the Horse]

I almost feel sad that I had to refer to Wikipedia to find something to put in brackets after "right wing". (I almost put liberal, but as the most thrown about and misused word in the English language today, I decided against it.)

 

[Leicht]

Interesting documentary about British and German Car industry

 

[MatskiMonk]

I thought this was interesting.

http://metro.co.uk/2014/06/17/hate-...are-system-in-the-world-4765075/?ito=facebook

We have the highest ranked public healthcare system in the world, but are ranked only above America for healthy living!

Come for the NHS, stay for the benefits

 

[Liquid]

All depends on perception of what constitutes good care and the definition of a 'healthy' lifestyle.

 

[DK]

I noticed that the UK and the USA are at opposite extremes when it comes to access to healthcare for cost-related problems.

 

[Roger the Horse]

I think the problem experienced by the UK with regard to healthy lives isn't to do with the healthcare system, but more to do with society and culture.

People eat unhealthily, don't get enough exercise, drink too much, etc.

 

[TenEightyOne]

 

[Famine]

I think the problem experienced by the UK with regard to healthy lives isn't to do with the healthcare system, but more to do with society and culture.

People eat unhealthily, don't get enough exercise, drink too much, etc.

Which is what happens when you don't have to pay for your own recovery from it.

 

[DK]

Which is what happens when you don't have to pay for your own recovery from it.

If that's the case, surely obesity levels should be a lot lower in the USA, where you DO have to pay for your own recovery, right? It seems a lot more complex than "I'll get fat because the NHS will pick up the tab" to me.

 

[Famine]

If that's the case, surely obesity levels should be a lot lower in the USA, where you DO have to pay for your own recovery, right?

Nope. Think more "if that's the case, obesity levels would be a lot higher in the USA when you stop having to pay for your own health".

Luckily, we get to find out soon.

 

[Crash]

View attachment 173716

 

[homeforsummer]

Interesting documentary about British and German Car industry

I've not seen that for a while and I can't watch now as I should really be working (

) but I recall it's not entirely fair on the British car industry. Lot of misinformation contained within. I seem to recall they interview James Ruppert (behind Bangernomics, and a writer for Autocar) who provided some advice for the program, but then ended up not using lots of it and ignoring other bits.

That, and the production team apparently knew very little about cars.

TL;DR - Take some of what they say with a pinch of salt.

 

[Lizard]

Nope. Think more "if that's the case, obesity levels would be a lot higher in the USA when you stop having to pay for your own health".

Luckily, we get to find out soon.

1 question. What makes you say it goes that way not the other way?
I personally think it comes down to food culture more than anyone caring about medical bills. Take Japan. Universal care with those that don't have insurance being able to get it off the government (doesn't cover everything but covers most things and hospitals by law are not allowed to either run for profit or turn anyone away for not being able to pay.) yet one of the healthiest countries in the world.

 

[Famine]

1 question. What makes you say it goes that way not the other way?

When you make an individual unaware of the direct cost of an activity through preventing them from paying for it, they stop caring about the cost of the activity.

Ever gone out to a meal where the company is paying - or an open bar where the bride and groom are paying?

I personally think it comes down to food culture more

Well... that's part of healthy living, yes...

Readily available high calorie diets are part of the equation. "It'll never happen to me" is another. Not having to pay the cost of your insulin or coronary bypass is the last step in the chain.

 

[KSaiyu]

France had the best healthcare in the world according to the last WHO report. What happened....

 

[ExigeEvan]

And so, this morning, Britain was failed by one of its finest establishments. An establishment that truly but the great in Great Britain...


... BT killed the internet (well, half of it). Not sure if anyone else was silly enough to get BT internet, but I had little choice.

 

[Touring Mars]

There's not many words that can describe this video in the light of Rolf Harris's guilty verdict today, so I'll just leave this here.

 

[Famine]

I'll grant you it's not a video, but...

 

[Liquid]

To be quite honest, there is only one person whom I absolutely hope stays well clear of the allegations.

Graeme Murray Walker.

That would shatter my world. 50 years at the Beeb and hopefully he never mingled with 'them'.

 

[MatskiMonk]

To be quite honest, there is only one person whom I absolutely hope stays well clear of the allegations.

Graeme Murray Walker.

That would shatter my world. 50 years at the Beeb and hopefully he never mingled with 'them'.

Actually, I think he's only interested if they've just bought a copy of his latest book. He was a massive git towards my god children, I guess that's not as bad as sexual assault, but still, he's on my **** list for that.

 

[PeterJB]

Stephen Fry would be worse. The nation would descend into chaos.