Building a "cheap" PC - Final ~$1100 (AMD945/4GB RAM/1TB/ATI 5770HD/550W/24" XL2370)

[icelt]

As I know there are many astute minds lurking around these parts I wanted to request feedback on building a cheap PC. I suppose right now cheap to me means somewhere around $500. However I do want to maximize value and quality at this price range as well. So I can, and will if prudent, go up $200 or so.

My primary requirement is I need something as a solid general purpose PC. As a close 2nd, because I know me, I also want something that will be at least passable as a gaming PC.

After poking around on the 'nets some today here is a build I'm kinding using as my foundation.

-------
1 SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223C $21.99

2 COOLER MASTER ELITE 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $49.99

3 Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 ST3500418AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $54.99

4 GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard $52.99

5 SAPPHIRE 100283-2L Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $159.99

6 COOLER MASTER Elite 460 RS-460-PSAR-J3 460W ATX12V V2.31 Power Supply $39.99

7 Patriot Extreme Performance 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC24G6400ELK
$103.99

8 AMD Athlon II X4 620 Propus 2.6GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model ADX620WFGIBOX $97.99

9 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $99.99

Subtotal: $681.91
-------

Thoughts?

 

[Joey D]

I hate Seagate hard drives, I've had nothing but issues with them dying and just being all around crap. I think you'd be better off with a WD drive, even if it's a little more.

And wouldn't a DDR3 setup be cheaper? I found DDR2 RAM right now is stupidly expensive.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Overall, it looks good but I would get a better power supply.

I hate Seagate hard drives, I've had nothing but issues with them dying and just being all around crap. I think you'd be better off with a WD drive, even if it's a little more.

And wouldn't a DDR3 setup be cheaper? I found DDR2 RAM right now is stupidly expensive.

I haven't had any issues with Seagate drives. Though lately they have been hit or miss.

RAM in general is pretty expensive right now. Last summer I got 3x2GB for ~ $70. Now you get 2x2GB for $100, which is probably the cheapest without factoring in rebates.

 

[icelt]

Using newegg as the basis it looks like 2x2GB DDR3 is just about the same price as DDR2. What's the diff between 3 & 2 anyway? Suppose I should just look it up.

Yeah the guy who came up with the base build commented that the PS was on the cheaper end. Although he also stated that it has plenty of overhead for the components selected and that the PS is very easy to upgrade down the road if need be. So that's the thought behind it FWIW.

Edit...
Did some quick reading and it looks like 1 nice benefit of DDR3 is that it operates at 1.5V vs 1.9V for 2. So that's a power consumption saves, and peak usage I assume, of about 22%. Definitely helps on the PS front. However it looks like the MB is not compatible with DDR3.... researching....

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

However it looks like the MB is not compatible with DDR3.... researching....

Yeah 99% of the time MBs only support one type of memory.

I myself wouldn't even bother starting out with that power supply, since well it doesn't even supply the power that it has in the name. The thing with cheap power supplies is they tend to be cheap. It probably won't be a disaster, but I would rather be sure that my power supply has all the important bits. A StealthXStream 500W would be my next up recommendation.

 

[icelt]

New DDR3 build (w/2 diff PS's):

1 LG DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS50 $23.99

1 Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$59.99

1 Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $74.99

1 GIGABYTE GA-MA790GPT-UD3H AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard $119.99

1 SAPPHIRE 100245HDMI Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $106.99

1 OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS 500W ATX12V / EPS12V Active PFC Power Supply $49.99

1 Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply $74.99

1 G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 $109.99

1 AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor Model ADX435WFGIBOX $74.99

Subtotal: $695.91

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

You forgot Windows 7. I liked the previous build better minus the PSU. I would trust Samsung more with the DVD writer. For the hard drive, you can also look into the WD 640GB Blue. The performance is just a little worse.

Are you planning to do any upgrades later after the build? CPU?

 

[Shokz]

I'd be more comfortable with a Phenom II CPU as the cache on the Athlon II's is a bit on the low side. You can of coure overclock them fairly reasonably so you don't need to get one too far up the chain. I'd also drop the motherboard down to something a little cheaper if that's possible whilst sticking with the DDR3.

As for the PSU, stick with the OCZ, whilst it's not the best it should do. If you want to stick with Antec you could easily get away with a 500W unit (450W should be fine), but i would pick Corsair over them.

Finally, i'd go with a Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB drive as they're as fast as the Caviar Blacks, are also reliable and are at a very good pricepoint.

Oh, and as much as we're probably not allowed to talk about this here, just download Windows 7.

 

[Omnis]

Hard drives usually last as long as how well they've been shipped. It's more important to make sure the drives, whether Seagate or WD, aren't abused in transit.

 

[cpp214]

Here is what I would buy on your budget. It comes in at $689.66 including shipping:

Sony CD/DVD burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118030 $21.99

Samsung F3 500GB Hard Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181 $54.99

ASRock AM3 Mobo--cheap but good reviews, should do the job http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157176 $59.99

HIS 5770 Video Card--equal or better than 4850 performance-wise, runs cooler and on less power http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161317 $154.99+15% off with promo code

G-Skill 2x2 GB DDR3/1333 RAM--don't need 1600 unless you're going to overclock, and no need to really http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231189 $108.99

AMD Athlon IIx4 Quad core proc: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103704 $99.00

Windows 7 64 bit: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754 $99.00

OCZ Fatal1ty 550 Watt Modular PSU + Cooler Master RC690 case--awesome PSU + awesome case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.362549 $109.98+$25.00 mail in rebate card

This is the way I would go on your budget. All the components are high quality. The video card deal expires today I think. If you can't find a 5770 to fit in your budget, go with either the 4850 or a 5750. I'd recommend a 5750 because it's newer tech and runs cooler off less power and performs close to a 4850.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

That's a nice find on that PSU/case combo, even though I hate excessive LEDs.

 

[icelt]

Ok, just kinda getting a chance to check back in. I'll look through the posts and reconfigure here in a bit but just wanted to thank for everyone for throwing in their $0.02. You guys help make this such a great little web community, man I love GTP.

 

[icelt]

You forgot Windows 7. I liked the previous build better minus the PSU. I would trust Samsung more with the DVD writer. For the hard drive, you can also look into the WD 640GB Blue. The performance is just a little worse.

Are you planning to do any upgrades later after the build? CPU?

Well I found the 2nd build on Tom's Hardware, System Builder Marathon, March 2010: System Value Compared and one of the significant reasons the builder chose the Athlon II X3 435 was becuase of it could be reliably overclocked AND most examples have a stable 4th core that can be unlocked. So going with 1 of those processors, then that would be the 1st "upgrade" path if you will.

Here is what I would buy on your budget. It comes in at $689.66 including shipping:


This is the way I would go on your budget. All the components are high quality. The video card deal expires today I think. If you can't find a 5770 to fit in your budget, go with either the 4850 or a 5750. I'd recommend a 5750 because it's newer tech and runs cooler off less power and performs close to a 4850.

I notice that 1 reviewer re: the ASRock MB said that the NB heat sink (or SB can't remember) interfered with one of the expansion slots. So much so that he couldn't find a card that could plug into the slot w/o interference. Do you agree?

Edit...
Oh yeah, monitor wise. 1 big 24" LCD or 2 smaller LCD's. Any pros/cons from those who have tried both. I do like the ability to have 2 programs on 2 different screens, but would be interested to know if a 24"+ works just as well.

Lastly, if there's a no brainer "great deal" when it comes to a mouse and keyboard that would be nice to know.

 

[NissanSkylineN1]

Try TigerDirect.ca. They have un-assembled PC's for good prices. For example, a Phenom II x4 with an MSI motherboard and with 8GB of DDR2 RAM and an onboard ATI Radeon 4200 HD with 512 MB and a Seagate 'cuda with 750 GB @7200RPM with a case and power supply (450 Watts) for only $450. Conveniently, there a store about 10 min away near Sherway Gardens Toronto. I'm not sure if they ship to the US though.

 

[icelt]

Well for me in Dallas I don't think Sherway Gardens is going to be all that convenient . But yeah thanks for pointing out TD as an option. It looks like for their US distribution they use their .com web addy.

Also you're right it would be significantly cheaper to go that route, but I know the quality and performance would be much less as well. I haven't "built", really assemble is a better term I think, my own PC before so that is kinda attractive to me right now and therefore is making me lean towards the newegg option.

 

[cpp214]

I notice that 1 reviewer re: the ASRock MB said that the NB heat sink (or SB can't remember) interfered with one of the expansion slots. So much so that he couldn't find a card that could plug into the slot w/o interference. Do you agree?

Edit...
Oh yeah, monitor wise. 1 big 24" LCD or 2 smaller LCD's. Any pros/cons from those who have tried both. I do like the ability to have 2 programs on 2 different screens, but would be interested to know if a 24"+ works just as well.

Lastly, if there's a no brainer "great deal" when it comes to a mouse and keyboard that would be nice to know.

As far as that review on the ASRock mobo, the reviewer is referring to the PCI-Ex1 slot being blocked by the Northbridge cooler. If that is correct, all it would mean is that one of the slots for a TV tuner card would be blocked--not good, but not the end of the world either. You shouldn't have any trouble with fitting your graphics card in there. If you plan on using a TV tuner card in one of those slots, you will want another mobo. But if not, this is just about the best bang for your buck motherboard on the market today.

Also, I would just get a mouse and keyboard at Wal-Mart or Office Depot to be honest, unless you're a hardcore gamer who needs a better mouse and keyboard for gaming. I paid about $25 total for the cheapest USB Microsoft mouse Office Depot had + the cheapest keyboard I could find.

 

[icelt]

As far as that review on the ASRock mobo, the reviewer is referring to the PCI-Ex1 slot being blocked by the Northbridge cooler. If that is correct, all it would mean is that one of the slots for a TV tuner card would be blocked--not good, but not the end of the world either. You shouldn't have any trouble with fitting your graphics card in there. If you plan on using a TV tuner card in one of those slots, you will want another mobo. But if not, this is just about the best bang for your buck motherboard on the market today.

Also, I would just get a mouse and keyboard at Wal-Mart or Office Depot to be honest, unless you're a hardcore gamer who needs a better mouse and keyboard for gaming. I paid about $25 total for the cheapest USB Microsoft mouse Office Depot had + the cheapest keyboard I could find.

Any thoughts on the overclocking potential of the 3core vs 4core AMD CPU's. On first inspection they seem similar enough that it could be the same chip just one tested out as green for 4 core use and the other for only 3 core. If correct, or even remotely accurate, then paying $20 more for the "native" 4core option seems fairly easy. What's $20 versus the 1-2 days of effort I assume it would take me to figure out how to successfully unlock and stabilize the 4th core?

 

[cpp214]

Any thoughts on the overclocking potential of the 3core vs 4core AMD CPU's. On first inspection they seem similar enough that it could be the same chip just one tested out as green for 4 core use and the other for only 3 core. If correct, or even remotely accurate, then paying $20 more for the "native" 4core option seems fairly easy. What's $20 versus the 1-2 days of effort I assume it would take me to figure out how to successfully unlock and stabilize the 4th core?

I think if you're on a super tight budget, and the $20 price difference between a triple core and a quad core would allow you to get a slightly better graphics card, it might be worth trying. Unlocking the extra cores on AMD processors is not very difficult at all if you have a motherboard with the right features.

Having said that, if you go that route, you're going to have to get an aftermarket CPU heatsink/cooler. The ones that come with the AMD and Intel processors are just good enough to cool a stock CPU, and not much more than that. I'd stop short of calling them outright "junk" because they do what they are intended to do, but they really aren't that good. A decent aftermarket cooler is going to cost you at least $20-35 or slightly more.

There is a pretty high success rate for unlocking 4 cores on many AMD double and triple core processors. However, assuming you successfully unlock those dormant cores, you can no longer monitor your CPU temperatures via conventional means. You'd have to download specialized software that would be able to monitor the newly unlocked processor. I'm not sure if Core Temp or Speedfan does this or not, I'd have to read up on it. And something else to think about is that the cores were probably locked because they couldn't pass certain standards that AMD sets for the quality and stability of their processors. Rather than just junking these processors, AMD re-badges them as either dual or triple core processors, and locks the faulty cores. Some people argue that there's really nothing wrong with most of these unlockable cores, and that's probably true. I think if I were going to buy a processor though, I'd rather just spend the extra $20 or so and get a stable quad core processor, but it's up to you.

Here's a pretty good video that shows the basics of how to unlock a Phenom II dual core. The process is pretty much the same for triple cores too.

 

[nick09]

You know you can place that 1x TV Turner card into a x16 slot if you have no other choice. I also agree with cpp214 with that you should just get a quad instead of getting a triple. If you unlock the extra core and need to send the cpu back for a replacement they might notice extra unlocked core.

For a keyboard and mouse I would recommend this keyboard and mouse since they are cheap and will have the features you would ever need.

 

[icelt]

Thanks for the input nick.

Welp for those that have helped and those that are interested, here's the build I want to go with. I say "want to" at this point because my app for the "new egg preferred account" was rejected. Not certain why, checked my credit reports and I have 0 red flags on the 2 reports I was able to review. Soooo... anyway the build already.

-----------
1 SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223C $21.99

1 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $89.99

1 SAMSUNG XL2370-1 Charcoal Gray 23" 2ms LED Backlight Mega DCR 5m:1 Widescreen LCD Monitor $309.99

1 ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard $59.99

1 HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card $154.99

1 Logitech Cordless Desktop EX 100 Black RF Wireless Standard Keyboard and Mouse $31.99

1 G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK $108.99

1 AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model ADX630WFGIBOX $99.00

1 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders $99.99

1 OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

$109.98

Subtotal: $1,086.90
Shipping: $18.66
-----------

Once again much appreciation to everyone who has taken the time to make suggestions and comments 👍

 

[icelt]

Ok, it has been a couple of weeks but finally got my finances in order. So just wanted to ask if any of you guys notice any obvious cost cutting opportunities? It is essentially the same build as before but I had to go a different combo route since the deal on the prior case and PS expired. Thanks.

------------
1 SAMSUNG CD/DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223
$21.99

1 COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
-$15.00 Instant
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate
$69.99

1 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$89.99

1 SAMSUNG XL2370-1 Charcoal Gray 23" 2ms LED Backlight Mega DCR 5m:1 Widescreen LCD Monitor
-$20.00 Instant
$299.99

1 ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
$59.99

1 HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
-$10.00 Instant
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate
$159.99

1 AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model ADX630WFGIBOX
$99.00

1 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
$99.99

1 OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3P1333LV4GK
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
-$30.00 Instant
-$15.00 Combo
$25.00 Mail-in Rebate
$159.98

1 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical - Black
Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000
-$7.00 Combo
$27.98

Subtotal: $1,088.89
-----------

 

[cpp214]

You can get that Samsung hard drive for $20 cheaper with a promo code.
And you can get this Acer 23" monitor for $179 until 5/24. It has a 5ms response time vs. the 2ms of the Samsung you have listed, but you could save $120 and I think the performance would be very similar. Having said that, I am in the process of selling my ASUS 23" monitor after having to get it repaired after it suddenly died on me after 7 months. The monitor I bought to replace it was a 23" Samsung similar to the one you have listed. I can vouch for the quality of the Samsung. It's noticeably better with PS3 games, but virtually the same with PC games and in a PC desktop environment. It may be worth it to just spend the extra and get the Samsung now.

Also, that OCZ RAM has some sketchy feedback, but that's probably from people who don't know how to manually set the timings and voltages to spec.
I'd think about getting some GSkill or Corsair RAM instead, but you should be okay with that. And there's an extra $5 off promo code with the OCZ Power supply too.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The Cooler Master 690 case is now $70 -$10 MIR.

You can save $20 by getting this case, which I have. It has less options for fan placement. And it has the traditional(top) power supply mount. Overall, I would recommend it if you are not looking for really serious airflow or extreme overclocking.

There's also the Antec 300, which is $50 until the 24th(free shipping). It's similar to the CM 690 but a bit less flashy. It has good potential in terms of airflow.

 

[Pako]

Just for fun, check out ibuypower.com on a i5 Intel system build. You might be surprised what you can come up with. It's been months, but last time I checked for a friend, we configured a i5 machine and just under $800 for the whole system.

 

[nick09]

You can save ten bucks if you buy this WD hard drive. It has the same specs and everything. I would also save about $90 and get an Asus monitor since it has the same features you need. Then using the funds you save you can upgrade to the Phenom II processor. What makes this processor better than the Alton is because it has an L3 cache(read more about it here). Which means it can read more data without stopping and looking for it.

 

[Azuremen]

Also, that OCZ RAM has some sketchy feedback, but that's probably from people who don't know how to manually set the timings and voltages to spec.
I'd think about getting some GSkill or Corsair RAM instead, but you should be okay with that. And there's an extra $5 off promo code with the OCZ Power supply too.

I'd suggest G.Skill. I use it in two of my computers with no trouble, and it tends to be cheaper than OCZ and certainly more so than Corsair.

 

[icelt]

You can get that Samsung hard drive for $20 cheaper with a promo code.
And you can get this Acer 23" monitor for $179 until 5/24. It has a 5ms response time vs. the 2ms of the Samsung you have listed, but you could save $120 and I think the performance would be very similar. Having said that, I am in the process of selling my ASUS 23" monitor after having to get it repaired after it suddenly died on me after 7 months. The monitor I bought to replace it was a 23" Samsung similar to the one you have listed. I can vouch for the quality of the Samsung. It's noticeably better with PS3 games, but virtually the same with PC games and in a PC desktop environment. It may be worth it to just spend the extra and get the Samsung now.

Also, that OCZ RAM has some sketchy feedback, but that's probably from people who don't know how to manually set the timings and voltages to spec.
I'd think about getting some GSkill or Corsair RAM instead, but you should be okay with that. And there's an extra $5 off promo code with the OCZ Power supply too.

Yeah I'm thinking the Samsung's gonna be worth the expense. It's the only part of the computer that I'll always need to look at afterall . Thanks for the memory warning.

There's also the Antec 300, which is $50 until the 24th(free shipping). It's similar to the CM 690 but a bit less flashy. It has good potential in terms of airflow.

Like the looks of this one. I haven't even thought about fans, do I need to grab some?

Just for fun, check out ibuypower.com on a i5 Intel system build. You might be surprised what you can come up with. It's been months, but last time I checked for a friend, we configured a i5 machine and just under $800 for the whole system.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm really wanting to build my own for the first time. It does look like they have some fun builds on that site though.

You can save ten bucks if you buy this WD hard drive. It has the same specs and everything. I would also save about $90 and get an Asus monitor since it has the same features you need. Then using the funds you save you can upgrade to the Phenom II processor. What makes this processor better than the Alton is because it has an L3 cache(read more about it here). Which means it can read more data without stopping and looking for it.

Sounds to me that the OS/current program running needs to be specifically programmed to take advantage of the L3 design improvement. Is that correct? In addition would I need to select a different MB?

I'd suggest G.Skill. I use it in two of my computers with no trouble, and it tends to be cheaper than OCZ and certainly more so than Corsair.

That's 2 down votes on the memory, so yeah I'll go with a different mfr.

 

[nick09]

Whoops! My mistake. Here is another one that is AM3. Also the program does not need to be programmed to make special use of the L3 cache. The CPU does this by itself since the memory is located on the CPU.

EDIT: Though if you want the processor that I suggested before you need a different motherboard that is compatible with AM2+.

 

[icelt]

Whoops! My mistake. Here is another one that is AM3. Also the program does not need to be programmed to make special use of the L3 cache. The CPU does this by itself since the memory is located on the CPU.

EDIT: Though if you want the processor that I suggested before you need a different motherboard that is compatible with AM2+.

It does look like the benefits are application specific though. Still trying to wrap my head around how much "real world" benefit on die L3 cache provides.

Edit....
Forgot to mention, I also read that the L3 cache operates at the NB frequency, so does that mean I need to be more concerned about MB choice if go the L3 route?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Like the looks of this one. I haven't even thought about fans, do I need to grab some?

That case has a 140mm at the top and 120mm at the rear. If you aren't doing any major overclocking that would be fine. Though you could move the rear fan to the front. Since with the top, rear, power supply and possibly graphics card you wouldn't have any air blowing in. You should also consider whether the fan at the top would be a problem(stuck in a desk with a low clearance).