Building a "cheap" PC - Final ~$1100 (AMD945/4GB RAM/1TB/ATI 5770HD/550W/24" XL2370)

[icelt]

Now regarding the memory, when I was looking through the various options from g-skill I noticed they had about 9 different choices for 2x2 GB, DDR3, 1333 memory. IE:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2129233 1052430325&name=DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

It seems the defining factor is the cas latency number, is there a quick best choice here or do I need to delve into this in detail?

 

[Azuremen]

Whoops! My mistake. Here is another one that is AM3. Also the program does not need to be programmed to make special use of the L3 cache. The CPU does this by itself since the memory is located on the CPU.

EDIT: Though if you want the processor that I suggested before you need a different motherboard that is compatible with AM2+.

AM3 boards are backwards compatible with AM2+ chipsets, last I checked... Sometimes I wonder about what you are talking about.

It does look like the benefits are application specific though. Still trying to wrap my head around how much "real world" benefit on die L3 cache provides.

Edit....
Forgot to mention, I also read that the L3 cache operates at the NB frequency, so does that mean I need to be more concerned about MB choice if go the L3 route?

I wouldn't worry too much about the Northbridge, just as long as the board is an AM3 board. Generally, a larger cache will always be useful, and future OS and software will optimize more so for it.

As for the monitor... I spend every day in front of an Acer paired with a Samsung... and despite the Samsung being a bit older, I tend to find it has better colors and a vastly better viewing angle. I'm not sure how an Asus display would compare, but I've always found Samsung's to be superior versus anything else I've seen (and I have 5 different LCDs in my house from various periods)

Memory... it has been a bit since I have looked into CAS Latency, but I've not worried too much about it... becomes more relevant if you are overclocking though. Tomshardware.com should have more information between their articles and forums.

GFX wise, I'd stay with the 5770, but I went with PowerColor due to a slightly cheaper price and 2.1 PCI-e versus 2.0. Card works great and is quiet under all conditions I've had it meet thus far. Also has dual DVI out in addition to Display Port and HDMI out, which is essential as I run dual monitors off DVI.

 

[cpp214]

Now regarding the memory, when I was looking through the various options from g-skill I noticed they had about 9 different choices for 2x2 GB, DDR3, 1333 memory. IE:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...2129233 1052430325&name=DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)

It seems the defining factor is the cas latency number, is there a quick best choice here or do I need to delve into this in detail?

Generally speaking, the lower the latency and timings, the faster the RAM.
For example, the OCZ Platinum RAM you have in your shopping list above has a latency of 7 with timings of 7-7-7-20, so it should be faster than RAM with a latency of 9 and timings of 9-9-9-24 for example. But, there have been multiple benchmarks that prove that the difference in speeds between RAM are negligible at best. Certainly not something that you will notice very much, if at all. I am currently running 2x2 GB of DDR3 1600 Corsair RAM. I'd have to double check, but I believe the manufacturer rated latency/timings is: 9 latency, 9-9-9-24 timing. I have configured it to run with a latency of 8 and timings of 8-8-8-21, and I noticed no difference from the speed of the 9-9-9-24 RAM. I like running the RAM at 9-9-9-24, because it doesn't require as much voltage and I don't want to have to worry about stability issues with my system--and unstable RAM, running at the wrong timings is one of the main culprits of unstable systems...

Bottom line, if you get DDR3 RAM with a latency of 9 and timings in the 9-9-9-24 range, you'll be fine. Also, try to pick RAM that needs no more than 1.5 volts to run at its rated timings. And don't get caught up in buying DDR3 1600 over DDR3 1333 for example, because it's not faster. The only reason you really need DDR3 1600 or higher is for overclocking.

Personally, I'd stay away from OCZ RAM. I've just seen too many horror stories from reviewers on Newegg to put much faith in it. Stick to GSkill, Corsair, A-DATA or Kingston.

Also, I usually like to stick with RAM that is "officially" supported by the motherboard I'm using. Generally speaking, any RAM should work as long as it meets the basic specifications of your motherboard, but I'd prefer to play it safe. I'd hate to build a computer only to have some junk RAM that won't even boot my new system. You'd have to return it and sit around and wait for a week (or longer) to get it replaced. I wouldn't want that hassle.

Here is the link to ASRock's recommended RAM for the board you have chosen.
Out of that list, I'd stick to GSkill or Corsair, and I'd probably go with these sticks of GSkill.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Tree'd...Hurr Durr

 

[icelt]

I wouldn't worry too much about the Northbridge, just as long as the board is an AM3 board. Generally, a larger cache will always be useful, and future OS and software will optimize more so for it.

As for the monitor... I spend every day in front of an Acer paired with a Samsung... and despite the Samsung being a bit older, I tend to find it has better colors and a vastly better viewing angle. I'm not sure how an Asus display would compare, but I've always found Samsung's to be superior versus anything else I've seen (and I have 5 different LCDs in my house from various periods)

Memory... it has been a bit since I have looked into CAS Latency, but I've not worried too much about it... becomes more relevant if you are overclocking though. Tomshardware.com should have more information between their articles and forums.

GFX wise, I'd stay with the 5770, but I went with PowerColor due to a slightly cheaper price and 2.1 PCI-e versus 2.0. Card works great and is quiet under all conditions I've had it meet thus far. Also has dual DVI out in addition to Display Port and HDMI out, which is essential as I run dual monitors off DVI.

Thanks for the Samsung feedback. I really don't feel comfortable skimping on the display.

Dual monitor wise I was planning on splitting the 23" into 2 virtual monitors, assuming Win 7 supports this. Is that a safe assumption ?

Also, I usually like to stick with RAM that is "officially" supported by the motherboard I'm using. Generally speaking, any RAM should work as long as it meets the basic specifications of your motherboard, but I'd prefer to play it safe. I'd hate to build a computer only to have some junk RAM that won't even boot my new system. You'd have to return it and sit around and wait for a week (or longer) to get it replaced. I wouldn't want that hassle.

Here is the link to ASRock's recommended RAM for the board you have chosen.
Out of that list, I'd stick to GSkill or Corsair, and I'd probably go with these sticks of GSkill.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Tree'd...Hurr Durr

Sweet feedback.

So these are the G-Skill ID's in the 1333 section I see. Did you mistype on the link or am I missing something?

F3-10600CL9D-2GBNQ
F3-10600CL7D-2GBPI
F3-10600CL8D-2GBHK
F3-10600CL9D-2GBPK
F3-10666CL9D-4GBPK
F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK

 

[cpp214]

Thanks for the Samsung feedback. I really don't feel comfortable skimping on the display.

Dual monitor wise I was planning on splitting the 23" into 2 virtual monitors, assuming Win 7 supports this. Is that a safe assumption ?




Sweet feedback.

So these are the G-Skill ID's in the 1333 section I see. Did you mistype on the link or am I missing something?

F3-10600CL9D-2GBNQ
F3-10600CL7D-2GBPI
F3-10600CL8D-2GBHK
F3-10600CL9D-2GBPK
F3-10666CL9D-4GBPK
F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK

Well, I sort of took liberties with the advice I gave you in the previous post
The 2x2 sticks of RAM I linked you to have the same last 4 digits as the 1x1 sticks you have pasted--GBNQ--so they should work just fine with that mobo.
But, just to be on the safe side, go with the 2x2 sticks of DDR3 1600 GSkill with the GBNQ suffix 👍 I would link you to them, but Newegg isn't loading properly for me right now.

 

[icelt]

Well, I sort of took liberties with the advice I gave you in the previous post
The 2x2 sticks of RAM I linked you to have the same last 4 digits as the 1x1 sticks you have pasted--GBNQ--so they should work just fine with that mobo.
But, just to be on the safe side, go with the 2x2 sticks of DDR3 1600 GSkill with the GBNQ suffix 👍 I would link you to them, but Newegg isn't loading properly for me right now.

Cool kinda thought that might be the case, at least you know I was paying attention . So these then ?:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231193

Any idea if Win 7 has a feature to make one display act like dual monitors?

 

[cpp214]

Yep, that's the RAM you want 👍

As for the other question, I don't know, but I'm sure someone here does.

 

[Azuremen]

Any idea if Win 7 has a feature to make one display act like dual monitors?

No clue, though not sure why'd you do this anyhow... it lets you quickly resize windows to half screen size by dragging them to the side of the screen, making side by side fairly easy. Of course, I've not much looked into it since I've been using dual monitors for the past few years...

 

[icelt]

K - now the hard drive is out of stock. Opinions between these replacements?:
link

 

[Azuremen]

If this was two years ago, I'd say the Seagate... but given that fiasco last year with them, I'm inclined to say the Western Digital. It also has the faster SATA and twice the cache. And as we know, more cache = good, though not sure how much of a boost it will make in access times, but should smooth the loading of media just a bit.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The first two seem to have reliability issues. The boxed Hitachi should be good, though the Black will have a performance edge. You shouldn't discount the Blue though.

More cache is good, but it doesn't always mean faster. The SATA speed shouldn't matter as the drive barely can take advantage of the slower speed. I think of those more as marketing aspects. I think performance mainly depends on the other stuff inside and the firmware.

 

[icelt]

Cool. Done, finally. Purchased build:

1 SAMSUNG XL2370-1 Charcoal Gray 23" 2ms LED Backlight Mega DCR 5m:1 Widescreen LCD Monitor
$299.99

1 Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$61.95

1 ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
$59.99

1 HIS H577FM1GD Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
$159.99

1 OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$69.99

1 AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Model HDX945WFGMBOX
$139.99

1 G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
$109.99

1 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$99.99

1 Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000
$16.99

1 Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical - Black
$17.99

1 SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM
$21.99

1 Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
$99.99

1 Cyber Acoustics CA-3602 30 Watts RMS 2.1 Flat Panel Design Speaker System
$39.99

Thanks again to everyone who helped 👍

Edit...
Think I used the term "final" before so I've corrected my language on this post

 

[icelt]

The first two seem to have reliability issues. The boxed Hitachi should be good, though the Black will have a performance edge. You shouldn't discount the Blue though.

More cache is good, but it doesn't always mean faster. The SATA speed shouldn't matter as the drive barely can take advantage of the slower speed. I think of those more as marketing aspects. I think performance mainly depends on the other stuff inside and the firmware.

Yeah thanks for pointing out the blue, but only $10 for the extra cache (ha) on the black works for me.

 

[icelt]

Gathering drivers now and reviewing those available for the CPU is confusing me a bit.
http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/P...Download+Processor&ostype=&keywords=&items=20

The most recent version is described as:
"AMD Processor Driver Version 1.3.2.0053 for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 (x86 and x64)"

Does anyone know what the deal is here with AMD's driver downloads? Is it that they basically rely on the MB mfr's to provide, and update, the necessary software?

 

[cpp214]

Gathering drivers now and reviewing those available for the CPU is confusing me a bit.
http://support.amd.com/us/psearch/P...Download+Processor&ostype=&keywords=&items=20

The most recent version is described as:
"AMD Processor Driver Version 1.3.2.0053 for Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 (x86 and x64)"

Does anyone know what the deal is here with AMD's driver downloads? Is it that they basically rely on the MB mfr's to provide, and update, the necessary software?

You won't need drivers for the processor. Just set it in the motherboard, and if it's compatible with the motherboard, it just works 👍 That's my layman's attempt to explain it. That's all you need to worry about--is my CPU choice compatible with my motherboard? That's it. Often, motherboards will have more than one BIOS that offers different features. Sometimes BIOS updates will ADD support for some CPU's but not very often. So, basically, all you will ever need to worry about updating, if at all, is your motherboard 👍 You don't need to worry about CPU drivers, because I can't recall ever having to update a CPU driver. Do they even have drivers?

 

[Azuremen]

You won't need drivers for the processor. Just set it in the motherboard, and if it's compatible with the motherboard, it just works 👍 That's my layman's attempt to explain it. That's all you need to worry about--is my CPU choice compatible with my motherboard? That's it. Often, motherboards will have more than one BIOS that offers different features. Sometimes BIOS updates will ADD support for some CPU's but not very often. So, basically, all you will ever need to worry about updating, if at all, is your motherboard 👍 You don't need to worry about CPU drivers, because they don't have any.

This.

Only drivers I generally worry about at this point are motherboard drivers (primarily for the onboard audio, etc) and graphics card drivers. And even then, its not much of an issue as Windows 7 has so many generic drivers that you can generally just boot up without any driver discs and just find them online as needed.

 

[icelt]

Very good. I kinda figured the MB drivers would be sufficient, but as this is my first scratch build I wanted to be thorough.

Any specific tools I will need apart from a phillips head SD?

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Screwdriver and a pair of hands should do it

And make sure to not screw the motherboard directly to the case. Use standoffs.

 

[Azuremen]

Screwdriver and a pair of hands should do it

And make sure to not screw the motherboard directly to the case. Use standoffs.

Some newer cases I am seeing have built in Stand-offs.

Man, building computers is Easy Mode compared to ten years ago, where you had to fight with IDE cables, HDD Primary/Slave stuff, Jumpers for Timing and voltage, and fighting with getting the CPU heat sink on.

Now, with SATA and these new cases and mobos, its fairly Plug and Play (which also didn't work worth a damn ten years ago, Plug and Pray )

 

[icelt]

Screwdriver and a pair of hands should do it

And make sure to not screw the motherboard directly to the case. Use standoffs.

What I might call rubber grommets? Just to see if I understand you correctly.

Some newer cases I am seeing have built in Stand-offs.

Man, building computers is Easy Mode compared to ten years ago, where you had to fight with IDE cables, HDD Primary/Slave stuff, Jumpers for Timing and voltage, and fighting with getting the CPU heat sink on.

Now, with SATA and these new cases and mobos, its fairly Plug and Play (which also didn't work worth a damn ten years ago, Plug and Pray )

Yeah I hear ya. I've done a fair bit of upgrades (ie OS reinstall, memory, hard drives, MB replacement, sound cards, video cards etc) on various occasions from the mid 90's to early 00's. So I've been through some of the "darker" days of the craft built home PC experience. The CPU heat sink clips were always a major PITA I do agree .

However I have never built one from scratch all in one shot. Especially never my own, which as we all know makes a fair bit of difference. Also my most recent OS experiences have been XP (SP1 & 2) and server 2003. So I know I missed alot in these intervening years. Anyway, it is good to know things have "evolved" since then. Might actually miss a little some of the build pain, maybe .

 

[GT3mich]

What I might call rubber grommets? Just to see if I understand you correctly.




Yeah I hear ya. I've done a fair bit of upgrades (ie OS reinstall, memory, hard drives, MB replacement, sound cards, video cards etc) on various occasions from the mid 90's to early 00's. So I've been through some of the "darker" days of the craft built home PC experience. The CPU heat sink clips were always a major PITA I do agree .

However I have never built one from scratch all in one shot. Especially never my own, which as we all know makes a fair bit of difference. Also my most recent OS experiences have been XP (SP1 & 2) and server 2003. So I know I missed alot in these intervening years. Anyway, it is good to know things have "evolved" since then. Might actually miss a little some of the build pain, maybe .

These are standoffs. You may need a flashlight depending on where you are building. It can get dark inside computer cases. I also use a magnetic tipped screwdriver for the screws mounting the MB to the standoffs. Saves a lot of aggravation for the top left screws. Your hands won't get in there after you installed the CPU cooler.

 

[Pako]

One warning with Standoffs is to make sure you don't have any installed where they shouldn't be. If you need 9 of them for your board, make sure you don't have more than nine mounted in the case. They have a bad habit of grounding out the motherboard if not installed in the proper location. Embarrassingly enough, I am speaking from personal experience.

 

[icelt]

These are standoffs. You may need a flashlight depending on where you are building. It can get dark inside computer cases. I also use a magnetic tipped screwdriver for the screws mounting the MB to the standoffs. Saves a lot of aggravation for the top left screws. Your hands won't get in there after you installed the CPU cooler.

Now I see. Magnetic SD is a good idea.

One warning with Standoffs is to make sure you don't have any installed where they shouldn't be. If you need 9 of them for your board, make sure you don't have more than nine mounted in the case. They have a bad habit of grounding out the motherboard if not installed in the proper location. Embarrassingly enough, I am speaking from personal experience.

Sounds like a less than found memory that I don't want to recreate, thanks for the heads up

 

[Pako]

It wasn't too bad, but made trouble shooting difficult as to why the PC wouldn't boot. Luckily nothing shorted out or was damaged, the board was just grounded out and wouldn't boot properly. Had to dismantle the PC and start from scratch again. No harm, no foul....I was very fortunate but it was a PITA.

 

[icelt]

It wasn't too bad, but made trouble shooting difficult as to why the PC wouldn't boot. Luckily nothing shorted out or was damaged, the board was just grounded out and wouldn't boot properly. Had to dismantle the PC and start from scratch again. No harm, no foul....I was very fortunate but it was a PITA.

Good to hear, I was initially thinking the worst.

Stands to reason I suppose, but by Fri I'd received every package except for the one containing the meaty innards (CPU, MB, HD, VC, etc). Apparently that one won't arrive until Tues, thanks to the long weekend. Kinda frustrating, but dems da breaks. The case arrived with plenty of stand offs, so I'm well covered there.

 

[Pako]

OMG, not good!!!

 

[icelt]

So finally got all the parts in. Will likely begin assembly in earnest tomorrow. Should I expect to affix the CPU, VC and memory to the MB before or after I put it in the case? Or maybe I should just follow the case directions.

Also what's the anti-virus landscape like these days, free vs charge? Haven't had to worry about that since about late '05.

 

[Pako]

I would say it depends on your case. I've always put the mobo in first, then everything else from drives, PSU, CPU, ect.

As far as anti-virus, I have been using a free AV at home called Avast. It seems to be pretty light on CPU but so far has offered 100% protection for the past year and a half.

 

[nick09]

Install the motherboard before you install anything else on the motherboard. You don't have to worry installing a back plate since you are just installing a stock AMD heatsink to the CPU. Also if you have to apply the thermal paste just put down the equivalent of two uncooked rice grains, then secure the heatsink on the CPU. If there is already some thermal paste on the heatsink then you don't have to worry about it. I also agree with Pako because I use Avast and I never have any minor or major viruses enter my computer. I use Ad-Adware to protect myself from Malware.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

If you want to put/move a fan to the front, you could possibly do that first. I think I also put the DVD drive in before the motherboard, but generally the motherboard goes in first.

For anti-virus I am using the free version of AVG. It's not the best in anything, but it does the job. A firewall might be more important.