Bush Mix of God and War Grates on Many Europeans
- Thread starter milefile
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Pako. I understand your point of view on this but I can't completly agree with it. Being a Christian doesn't mean to be passive.I think Bush has an obligation to protect the people of America and it's interest. If that weren't the case then any country in the world would be able to do whatever they wanted including attacking Americans whenever a Christian was in office.
Pako
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I agree, and his actions are a clear indication that he is NOT letting his religious views persuade the way of doing his Job as our nations leader. He makes very religious comments in his speaches, but his actions on Iraq are very non-religious. As a result of his actions (not his words), I'm really not sure where the argument is.
Pako
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From a Christian life style, it would not be our job to judge or punish our agressors, that is left up to someone else. Tell me where Jesus ever said, "Kill your enemys before they kill you". In fact it's just the opposite, he teaches to forgive, turn the other cheak, do unto others as you would have them to unto you, ect....
The point is to have faith that God will provide and protect you in His way, not yours.
Again, these are concepts from Christ's teachings out of the Bible.
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Pako - while I realize you are attempting to morally "do the right thing", you are defaulting on the question. What would Jesus do in that situation? Stand by and attempt to reason with the attacker and persuade him not to?
What happens when that fails?
Personally, I would make the attempt to reason with him, but when/if that failed, I would do anything required to prevent harm to my family (or any innocents, for that matter). If he initiates a physical attack I will respond in kind including trying to kill him if he refuses to be subdued. Call me what you will based on that knowledge.
That being said, and speaking as an Atheist, I don't have a problem with Bush having private religious convictions. I do have a problem with him saying on the record that "God made this country great" or that "God guides him" in establishing national policy. The Constitution clearly calls for that separation. He may attempt all he wishes to lead the country in the moral direction he wants it to go, and let the public decide what it will on that score. But to say he's doing so in the name of any religion is unconstitutional.
What happens when that fails?
Personally, I would make the attempt to reason with him, but when/if that failed, I would do anything required to prevent harm to my family (or any innocents, for that matter). If he initiates a physical attack I will respond in kind including trying to kill him if he refuses to be subdued. Call me what you will based on that knowledge.
That being said, and speaking as an Atheist, I don't have a problem with Bush having private religious convictions. I do have a problem with him saying on the record that "God made this country great" or that "God guides him" in establishing national policy. The Constitution clearly calls for that separation. He may attempt all he wishes to lead the country in the moral direction he wants it to go, and let the public decide what it will on that score. But to say he's doing so in the name of any religion is unconstitutional.
Pako
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neon_duke, DGB454:
My above post was a quick response without much thought (or time) put into. On my way home from lunch I really started thinking about it. First off, I don't think that Christians should follow their beliefs just when it's convenient, but rather whole heartedly, and without reservation. In the above situation, I would not want death to become of my family or the attacker and would do everything in my power to prevent that from happening. If it came down to it, and I had the means and oppertunity to do so, I would "disable" the attacker. If he did not leave with warning shots by my .44 mag, I'd shoot him in the knees or another non-vital area to prevent further blood shed. Now I know, "they" always say if your going to shoot an intruder, make sure you kill them or else they will sue you. So be it, it's only money which only holds a monitary value, I would not want to be personally responsible for taking another persons life. After which time the situation became controlled, I would do whatever I could to help the attacker in any way that I could. Think about it, if a person is in a spot where they would want to kill my family.......they have bigger issues then anything I could ever imagine. In our current system, how many people take it upon themselves to help someone out? It's always someone elses responsibility or we rely on organizations or social departments to handle these people. "It's their job, not ours...." Unless your just a freak with some kind of mental illness, there's some good in there that's worth bring out. Everyone has something to offer if their just shown how to.
My above post was a quick response without much thought (or time) put into. On my way home from lunch I really started thinking about it. First off, I don't think that Christians should follow their beliefs just when it's convenient, but rather whole heartedly, and without reservation. In the above situation, I would not want death to become of my family or the attacker and would do everything in my power to prevent that from happening. If it came down to it, and I had the means and oppertunity to do so, I would "disable" the attacker. If he did not leave with warning shots by my .44 mag, I'd shoot him in the knees or another non-vital area to prevent further blood shed. Now I know, "they" always say if your going to shoot an intruder, make sure you kill them or else they will sue you. So be it, it's only money which only holds a monitary value, I would not want to be personally responsible for taking another persons life. After which time the situation became controlled, I would do whatever I could to help the attacker in any way that I could. Think about it, if a person is in a spot where they would want to kill my family.......they have bigger issues then anything I could ever imagine. In our current system, how many people take it upon themselves to help someone out? It's always someone elses responsibility or we rely on organizations or social departments to handle these people. "It's their job, not ours...." Unless your just a freak with some kind of mental illness, there's some good in there that's worth bring out. Everyone has something to offer if their just shown how to.
Ok, then you would fight if you needed to when the time comes.
I am a father and a husband and I will not only fight when I need to procect my family I will also go out and protect them against a presumed enemy. I will try and reason with them first.But if that doesn't work then I will threaten them. Hopefully that will work. But in the end if it comes down to my families lives or someone elses life then I know who I would choose. Your family is put in your care by God and I would consider it un Christian not to protect them.
My opinion.
I am a father and a husband and I will not only fight when I need to procect my family I will also go out and protect them against a presumed enemy. I will try and reason with them first.But if that doesn't work then I will threaten them. Hopefully that will work. But in the end if it comes down to my families lives or someone elses life then I know who I would choose. Your family is put in your care by God and I would consider it un Christian not to protect them.
My opinion.
Pako
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Yes, I would fight while preserving life. My family is a priority over my enemies, but God is a priority over my family. It is his will that needs to be done before my own. It is my understanding that his will is for the welfare of his children (which includes my family as well as myself, and the attacker).
I agree on that point Pako. WWJD? I believe Jesus would fight to the death for his children. In fact I believe he did. His fight didn't hurt anyone physically though because his fight was in the spirit and not the flesh.That's where our fight should be also but as the Bible says in essence to live in this world but don't be of it. Sometimes things are necessary when living in this world depending on your calling. If Bush was called upon by God to be a leader then he has an obligation to lead and protect. But as you said earlier it's not our job to judge. So I have a hard time condemming him or his acts as a Christian when I don't know what Gods plan for him is. As far as I know he is doing what he is suppose to do.
