- 3,867
- Saltash
- Dolhaus
This is what I corrected. This does the opposite, because when you load the outside tire, more force it put on it, which wants to pull it backwards. Your pushing against the wheel from ahead of it as your travelling forward. What happens when you jack a car up and push the front of a wheel? It turns to the outside. Toe out. It is not a motorcycle. The mass above the wheel is not leaning inwards, allowing for the opposite effect. Camber thrust between something with two wheels and four is very, very different. The car is leaning outwards...loading the outer wheel. Essentially, making an example using a motorcycle simulates or illustrates loading the inside and unloading the outer wheel completely. The opposite of an example of a car. You have no opposing wheel. If you run 0 toe on an alignment rack and then drive down the road, you have slight negative toe out and it furthers between geometry and loads/forces. Adding camber does not create, simulate or give off a similar effect of any toe in. Caster plays into all of this as well. Pull the top of the strut backwards from upright in relation to the spindle and now you are somewhat fighting back forces that push the wheel backwards and out.
I don't have the energy for this today, sorry. Dk what else to say or how to describe it. Camber = toe out as the suspension compresses. Camber = toe and when you're driving forward, most notably through a turn under high load. The more drag and forces pushing it back, the more it wants to steer away from the chassis with zero or negative toe and negative camber. Even 0 camber will go negative under load, because of the manner a control arm moves upwards at the outer end under load. Could run 0 camber and 0 toe, the wheel will still want to push back and turn out from the chassis. I can't think of situation where toe in is forced by adding camber. As I said, just pushing back on a wheel from the front with the front of a car jacked up and tell us what it did. Toe in counters those forces that want to pull the wheel out...like moving forwards...which again, naturally wants to pull the wheels outwards.
DolHaus believes the opposite. That adding camber forces a "permanent" toe in effect. To boot, the more your turn the wheel, the more that outside, loaded wheel does't want to turn in and it wants to toe out more so, because the forces fighting back at it are increasing. It is no longer merely an oncoming force that is being received. Setting toe in with camber will set the wheel closer to zero as it loads and received that oncoming force of the road and bumps you drive over. If you drive over a bump on the right wheel, your wheel jerks to the right, correct? If you drove over a sticky patch of road on the right side, it would pull you to the right correct? Right, because the oncoming forces is forcing the wheel out. It just gets worse the more you load it. That was just an example of the force the wheel is having to fight to stay straight.
So, no. Camber does no create or have some sort of effect of permanent toe in or any toe in. It is the exact opposite.
That is rhetorical, because I have no idea how else to spell it out. Talk about thrust as you wish. That is not what I disputed. I will be baffled if someone comes back and says threat an incoming force creates toe in. That is ridiculous. Camber or no camber. Which ever produces more grip at x point in time.
Maybe this illustration will help clarify what I have been talking about.
As you can see, the resultant effect of leaning a wheel onto the inside edge using negative camber makes it want to follow an inward arc towards the centre line of the vehicle. This is the Toe In-like effect we are talking about, it is not actually changing toe but it is having a similar effect on the direction of travel of the wheel in that it is pointing in towards the centre line of the vehicle.