Camber
- Thread starter esoxhntr
- 894 comments
- 54,465 views
- Status
- 409
- New Jersey
- GTCHAMPION1
I have entered real life camber specs into GT6 and all I get is the car out of control... while the same specs in GT5 work just fine... but there are a couple of cars in GT6 that work with rear life camber specs... like the 94 Civic SiR & the 302 Boss... hope they fix this issue ASAP
- 904
- York Virginia
- chilybee
Seems like PD disassembeled a puzzle, and are now having problmes putting it back toghether again.
Proving this was not a "port" of the game. I just pray they fix the front to back physics and now the camber.
Good to know the problems though. Thanks guys.
Proving this was not a "port" of the game. I just pray they fix the front to back physics and now the camber.
Good to know the problems though. Thanks guys.
- 11,207
- Adrian, Mich.
- cargorat323
- CargoRatt
What we are all using at the moment
That is not correct. Your picture shows positive camber, which is NOT in GT6. What is in GT6 is negative camber, as depicted in the picture in post #32. Again, please read this link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camber_angle
\-/ is positive camber
/-\ is negative camber
- 105
- South West
Thank you for the condescending theory lesson but unfortunately you have missed the point. It's been said numerous times in this thread that a possible explanation is that the positive number in the tuning menu is being taking literally by the physics engine and hence the picture I posted of the truck.
We are adding what some of us believe to be positive camber instead of negative camber due to a bug, even though visually the car shows negative camber the effects are that of positive (the truck again)
Cheers
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- 376
- Nürburgring
- lukasspeed
For sure 0 camber has the most grip. If the physics engine takes minus for plus it could explain a lot of other things too, like the bad handling of some cars or even how easy it is to flip a car over curbs. If the theory is right, even with 0 camber we will all be cornering on the tyre shoulder with grippy tyres, even more so with any camber.
Also racing softs feel just terrible. Super stickies need camber. Hoping they fix it soon, this bug is even bigger than the custom rims issue.
Also racing softs feel just terrible. Super stickies need camber. Hoping they fix it soon, this bug is even bigger than the custom rims issue.
- 3,435
- Earth, SS, MW
Thank you for the condescending theory lesson but unfortunately you have missed the point. It's been said numerous times in this thread that a possible explanation is that the positive number in the tuning menu is being taking literally by the physics engine and hence the picture I posted of the truck.
We are adding what some of us believe to be positive camber instead of negative camber due to a bug, even though visually the car shows negative camber the effects are that of positive (the truck again)
Cheers
Well personally I don't usually run camber on my time attack cars, but drifting wise, negative camber works as it should do during a controlled slide. If it didn't, I think the drift community would of egged on by now.
I think you guys are jumping to conclusions when you say the camber is backwards, none of you actually know for sure, it may very well be something else to blame for what you've experienced, or what you think you've experienced.
- 15,972
- Devon UK
- johnboy-1975-
^ Thats kinda the problem the games so darn flawed none of us actually know 100% whats working and what isn't!
- 1,916
- Letchworth
- mistersafeway
Try driving the Ford XR8 Falcon, not sure about others, but I'd be surprised if it's the only car that feels better when lowered. Everything else I remember experimenting with is definitely the way you said, though.
When it comes to camber, I'm of the opinion that what should work in a straight line works in corners and vice versa, with how twitchy my cars are off the line. I need to get round to testing that. 💡
- 8,642
- London
- GTP_Stotty
By 'wrong way round', I mean when you raise the front, the car behaves as if you raised the rear (and vice versa)... even though it looks correct in the replay.
- 85
- Virginia
- Ice0l8ed
(Sigh) all this takes a little of the joy from gt6 from me. Not this debating but that the game just isn't running properly. Gt's core for me has always been the handling of the cars then the tuning. I don't like to add tons of power but I like taking cArs I find tricky and finding their secrets. Gt has come a long way and I guess it's a victim of its own success but d@mnit I want these little things fixed...
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
Camber is working quite well.
Its a ballance of getting the right angle for the side your working on and this is in relation to the angle you have on the other side. So simply clicking up the value will have adverse effects, seemingly helpfull then damaging then back to helpful again. The trick is getting the Angles front and rear working together to manipulate how your car rotates in the corner.
Its a ballance of getting the right angle for the side your working on and this is in relation to the angle you have on the other side. So simply clicking up the value will have adverse effects, seemingly helpfull then damaging then back to helpful again. The trick is getting the Angles front and rear working together to manipulate how your car rotates in the corner.
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
Works okay, just its more crucial you have the front and rear both set up correctly and its much less forgiving of bad angles.
negative. camber does not work correctly. adding anything over 0 to front or rear simply removes grip from that end. when it should improve grip (up to a point).
yes, what you are describing can be accomplished using camber as it stand in gt6 but you are robbing pete to give to paul. ie. you are removing grip in order to balance the car when you should be attempting to add grip to the end that is losing grip first. so for example, for an understeering car your method would add negative camber to the rear. the car will rotate better but all you did was remove grip from the rear. there are better ways to do this using the other suspension settings.
- 3,791
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Not true. They fixed the way weight distribution works. It was definitely better to tune "inverted" before, now it is definitely better to tune normally.
But I haven't found a benefit to camber at all yet.
- 134
I have not tried using ballast and weight distribution while tuning since the update. Weight transfer does seem to be reacting a little now. I am finding that softening springs and lowering compression number have more effect in controlling understeer and oversteer. I was away from GT6 for a little over a week prior to the 1.03 update so I lost a little bit of the "feel" that I had for the game but it seems that since the update some of the cars feel a little bit more floaty to me. It is kind of like driving a boat on a slightly choppy lake instead of driving a car on a track. That is a exaggeration of the feel but as close as I can come to describing the disconnect from the road surface. Maybe it is just my imagination after being away from the game a few days.
Still seems the lower the camber number the more grip.
Still seems the lower the camber number the more grip.
I think the problem of the game is in the tires, since they dont suffer any torsion on the corners. The suspension itself it is working fine. It seems to me that the cars have caster, so the outside wheel gain negative camber as you turn. And front and rear suspensions seems to work like they were double wishbone adjusted to gain negative camber as they compress. So if the tire does not have any torsion and you gain negative camber from caster and double wishbone, why put more negative camber?
I have worked on racing cars setups only. Low cost Street cars with simple suspensions designs should not behave like this.
I have worked on racing cars setups only. Low cost Street cars with simple suspensions designs should not behave like this.
- 291
- Oxfordshire
- Bread_45
I'm pretty sure @MOCOCA81 has hit the nail on the head. I've hardly ever been able to get a car to display positive camber on the outside tyre when cornering, except when using racing tyres with max ride height and very soft springs https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/camber-theory.294762/#post-9117457. This is a very extreme set of conditions, and not exactly how most race cars are set up. There just doesn't appear to be enough dynamic camber loss, which would require negative (static) camber in the setup menu.
As noted above, the front wheels seem to have the steering axis inclined to always give lots of negative camber - you can easily check this while cornering on a flat track, by taking a photo in replay mode. if you zoom in the view all the way you can sometimes go "inside the tyre" and see the brake disc, which is an excellent reference for camber.
It could be that GT6 does actually deal with grip gain/loss with camber correctly - it's just that the suspension geometry is modelled such that you never get to see a case where static -ve camber is needed.
I'm hoping that there are things still being worked on in the GT6 tyre and suspension model - certainly it seems PD were rushed into meeting the pre Xmas and pre PS4 release date, with so many features (B-Spec, 7 poster telemetry) to be released down the line. Hopefully the collaboration with KW and Yokohama are actual physics/engineering collaborations and not just a promotional exercise.
Come to think of it - this could be a very good reason why the 7-poster telemetry hasn't been released yet - after all, if your physics model still needs work, you're not going to allow people to view telemetry which gives evidence proving your model has shortcomings!
As noted above, the front wheels seem to have the steering axis inclined to always give lots of negative camber - you can easily check this while cornering on a flat track, by taking a photo in replay mode. if you zoom in the view all the way you can sometimes go "inside the tyre" and see the brake disc, which is an excellent reference for camber.
It could be that GT6 does actually deal with grip gain/loss with camber correctly - it's just that the suspension geometry is modelled such that you never get to see a case where static -ve camber is needed.
I'm hoping that there are things still being worked on in the GT6 tyre and suspension model - certainly it seems PD were rushed into meeting the pre Xmas and pre PS4 release date, with so many features (B-Spec, 7 poster telemetry) to be released down the line. Hopefully the collaboration with KW and Yokohama are actual physics/engineering collaborations and not just a promotional exercise.
Come to think of it - this could be a very good reason why the 7-poster telemetry hasn't been released yet - after all, if your physics model still needs work, you're not going to allow people to view telemetry which gives evidence proving your model has shortcomings!
- 291
- Oxfordshire
- Bread_45
I don't know - I think some threads have had people saying there has been a change, but there's also theories that the physics in general have changed so this could be complicating things.
Interesting about the Zonda and LFA - I think I'll buy an LFA tonight and have a go. What tyres were you on when the camber adjustment worked as expected?
Come to think of it, in GT5 one of the Amuse S2000's came stock with a large amount of -ve camber - like 3 or 4 degrees. If camber is truly broken/mis-implemented in GT6, then this should surely corner terribly stock, if the stock settings are the same as in GT5.
Jack Napier
(Banned)
- 120
- United States
I dissagree on a few points.
No Camber is not going to increase grip, not exactly, it is NOT as simple as raise camber value = more grip... Not much in tuning is straightforward or liniar like that.
Camber manipulates grip, it doesn't really increase it overall. If we give our outside wheels a better camber angle to give the outside wheels more grip, its coming at the cost of grip on our inside tires. Caster will counter this to some degree, but even then its still a trade off. Helping our outside wheels too much and the inside may loose too much grip.
Then there is the front / rear ballance while rotating, this is where most camber tuning should be done. Keeping in mind that the ARB, & Toe settings are going to play huge factors in how our camber works for us.
Then consider that as we increase the camber angle we have a smaller contact patch while going straight we have to remember any gains you want in cornering from camber tuning will come at the expence of straight line grip.
I think its more your understanding that may be a little off. Its one of those things when tuning, often I see people working on the wrong end of the car trying to fix something but the end needing attention is getting none. Consider the end with not enough grip is in that situation because the other side is taking too much
Cheers...Yah dont need to say "Negative" camber, "camber" alone will do, we have no way of giving positive camber and even if we did it would only be used on the left side of a NASCAR
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Jack, I greatly over-simplified. I don't neccesarally disagree with anything you have said except for the fact that camber does not currently work as it should.
Again I am greatly simplifying, however take a car and give it the grippiest tires you can, leave the suspension at default or even raise the car and soften the springs/arbs/dampers. This would be a prime condition to see the positive effects of adding negative camber even, 0.5 to whichever end is losing grip 1st during cornering as the super grippy tires will exceed what the springs/arbs/dampers can 'handle' and since the earth is an immovable object, the tires take brunt in the form of positive camber during cornering. What currently happens is the opposite, you will lose grip on that end of the car. Even if you add just 0.1, This goes against anything we've seen in previous titles of the game, and real life -- i don't know of a single car properly tuned for the track that runs 0 / 0 static camber.
Yes there is a point where too much camber is just too much, but that point is not and has never been zero.
Like you said, camber can be a great tool in fine tuning the balance of a car but the only thing we are able to do right now is take away grip from the other end of the car to fix this imbalance. It is impossible to add any grip with camber at this point in time.
The only caveat to my observations I will add is that I do 100% of my tuning and racing online, so I cannot say if things work as they should in the offline portion of the game where differences have been observed in previous titles.
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