Cappuccino Cup 3: Pre-season Discussion and Registration

[BrandonW77]

I will have a lounge open at 7pm EDT (GMT-4) this evening if anybody's looking to do some practice or run some test races. I'll post details here when it's open.

 

[BrandonW77]

The Caffeine Lounge is OPEN!! Come get your pre-season fix of racing and shenanigans!


*CLOSED*

 

[Schadenfreude13]

Added more pics here.

 

[BrandonW77]

I have a couple orders of business for us to discuss today. One is regarding a possible loophole in the new race format and the second is a likely 1 week delay in the beginning of the season.

First, the loophole. Our current plan is to do 4 of the rounds as double-header races with the second race starting with the reverse results of the first race. We discovered last night (thanks iforce) that if somebody leaves the lounge after the first race but before the second race starts, using the reverse grid they will be put on pole position regardless of where they finished in the first race. If somebody gets disconnected during the first race but joins for the second race then I have no problem with them being on pole since they won't get points for the first race. But, in theory if somebody does well in the first race and doesn't want to start at the back for the second race all they have to do is leave/re-enter the room and they will start on pole. Obviously, this is going prohibited.

So far over 2 seasons we've had a stand-up group of drivers and I don't think anybody would intentionally do this but I have to come up with a solution for it before the season starts in case it does happen. We came up with a few possible options last night that we can discuss here.
1. If a driver is unlawfully on pole they must immediately drop to the back of the field when the race starts. If they fail to do so within 1 lap they will receive 0 points for the race and the 2nd and 3rd place drivers have permission to "take them out". The problem with this is that the whole field is going to be trying to get by the leader at the start which is sure to result in chaos.
2. Have everyone line up on track in the order their supposed to start for a manual grid line up. In my experience this method is time consuming and confusing and I'm generally against it for this series.
3. I could introduce a mandatory pace lap for the second race, 1 extra lap to the total and we all cruise around at 60-70mph until we get to the start/finish line. This would give the driver on pole (unlawfully) plenty of time to drop to the back of the pack without risking damage to the rest of the field.

I think I would prefer something along the lines of the first suggestion where the driver on pole has 1 lap to drop to the back of the field in a safe manner. They couldn't just sit on the grid and let the field pass, they'd have to get up to speed and cautiously let the rest of the field by them. This could still cause problems so the pace lap method might be the best way to go, gives us plenty of time to give instructions and get things sorted.

Let me know your thoughts on the above.




Second order of business, I think the start of the season is going to be pushed back by 1 week to September 27th. I'm working on some things that are taking a little more time than I expected and I want to make sure I take the time to thoroughly sort them before I make them official. Some good things, don't worry.

I'm also going to be debuting a new feature for this season that I need a little more time to get ready but I think will be a great asset to the series.
Here's a little sample of the upcoming Capp Cup Racing School!

​

 

[RDAardvark]

Hmm. What if three people get disconnected? Or join the session late (even through no fault of their own)? This could get very messy.
I really like the idea of reverse grid for the second race and I'm sure other series must run this, so does anyone know what they do in these situations?

Regarding the season start date, the season would then run over Hallowe'en. Would we get a downturn in attendance? Schools are off here in the UK and Ireland.

Are you going to make us all sit a driving test?

 

[BrandonW77]

Hmm. What if three people get disconnected? Or join the session late (even through no fault of their own)? This could get very messy.
I really like the idea of reverse grid for the second race and I'm sure other series must run this, so does anyone know what they do in these situations?

Regarding the season start date, the season would then run over Hallowe'en. Would we get a downturn in attendance? Schools are off here in the UK and Ireland.

Are you going to make us all sit a driving test?

I've never seen this mentioned in other series, I've also run races with this format and never encountered the situation but it's sure to arise. If people get disconnected during the first race I have no problem letting them start up front, even if there's 2 or 3 of them. But if somebody leaves between races (disconnect or otherwise) I have to have a solid way to get them to the back of the field. I think the pace lap for the second race is probably the best bet, but I think I should probably just use that in the event of somebody leaving the room and not mandatory for every race. Although if we do it for every race then everyone will be familiar with the procedure which would make things go smoother.

Maybe we could have another All-Star Race over Halloween?


I'm not going to force anybody to sit through driving tests, just going to present some short little videos to illustrate the rules more clearly. Everyone likes watching videos, especially featuring Cappuccino's!

 

[Cipher22]

Yeah. A parade lap like they do if f1. We could probably get everyone in the right order in one lap.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've always like the idea of a pace lap and flying start, like at the Daytona Oval, but something we had control over. Where you could move your car around on the parade lap but only within a certain range so as not to interfere with other cars or gain position. When I raced Karts back in the day, other than winning, the most exciting thing to watch, especially as a spectator, was the incredible sound of 20 or more 100cc two stroke engines, suddenly rushing up to 17-18,000 rpm, with blue gas/oil smoke filling the air.

The standing start in GT5 is ok, but I'd much prefer a rolling start. I have only tried it once in a Nascar room with a pace car and it was total chaos...lol. If it is something we decide to do here, we'll have to do some testing to make sure it's workable. I know they do it in some series so I'm sure it's possible.

Wanted to mention I really liked the second version of the oval we ran last night Brandon, although both were pretty good. The second one was right handed but I liked the challenge of the first corner where it dips down the hill a bit, and the very high speed risky final corner. Could make for some interesting racing.

 

[Wardez]

We've been successfully using rolling starts, with heavy damage mind you, in WSGTC for over 30 starts since pre-season last year. We do it at every track we visit and we've never had a problem. If people have the same mind set, and unless you're... blind of something, it's not hard to do rolling starts, and it is fun.

Here's a link to the specific time in a recent full WSGTC incident check upload I made where it starts you off right before the last turn where every one's rolling in formation.
Pretty cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXSFNlP9Kw#t=1m22s

 

[Blind829]

Here's a link to the specific time in a recent full WSGTC incident check upload I made where it starts you off right before the last turn where every one's rolling in formation.
Pretty cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXSFNlP9Kw#t=1m22s

That is impressive, cars were nice and tight. The last time I did a rolling start was in a previous league B and I were in, and it never seemed to work smoothly. Either the spread was too big, newcomers didn't know what to (biggest problem), or other things.

Maybe a standing start for the first race and then a reverse grid rolling start for the second race would be an idea?

It doesn't matter to me, just my experience is it's more work for the race steward.

Edit - Pushing back the start date is fine by me.

 

[Cipher22]

We've been successfully using rolling starts, with heavy damage mind you, in WSGTC for over 30 starts since pre-season last year. We do it at every track we visit and we've never had a problem. If people have the same mind set, and unless you're... blind of something, it's not hard to do rolling starts, and it is fun.

Here's a link to the specific time in a recent full WSGTC incident check upload I made where it starts you off right before the last turn where every one's rolling in formation.
Pretty cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXSFNlP9Kw#t=1m22s

First, That looks like an awesome race.
Second, If we were going to do something like that we would need like a pre-season rehearsal for people like me who have never done stuff like that.

 

[Wardez]

I've been running series for a while, it really really isn't nearly as hard as you'd expect. Half the people in that race were new. It was CSL's first race but only about 5 of us there have had more than 3 formation rolling starts.

Like I said, it just takes the mind-set. Good idea about practice but It's hard to get people together for anything but an official race.

 

[Schadenfreude13]

I personally prefer standing starts, so I would have the grid do a formation lap and form up on the grid for a standing start. As Ive never actually tried this spacing on the grid might be an issue, so that leaves method #2.

FMSC used this method and it was never really all that time consuming.

 

[dsgerbc]

Don't care about standing/rolling start. Allowing bumping someone on an unlawful pole - was suggested as a joke
Zero points for the week for failing to yield safely should this occur incidentally - should be enough of a deterrent.

 

[BrandonW77]

Zero points for the week for failing to yield safely should this occur incidentally - should be enough of a deterrent.

I think this is the direction I'm leaning. I trust you guys enough to get it done cleanly (until proven otherwise).

 

[Torzilla]

Ive done a few series' in GT5 and the people in this series are by far some of the best, fair and most understanding drivers out there. I been involved in rolling starts before that have worked and ones that have been total cluster f's. I think the people in this series would have no problem executing a set up lap or rolling start to correct an order issue if we had to.
As for the custom oval I ran the first one last night and it was fun and I think would make a fun race. However it has been brought to my attention that it is not possible to create a track with a cross over or a jump though a ring of fire. In light of this I propse an oval snow track surrounding a lake of fire.

 

[Cipher22]

As for the custom oval I ran the first one last night and it was fun and I think would make a fun race. However it has been brought to my attention that it is not possible to create a track with a cross over or a jump though a ring of fire. In light of this I propse an oval snow track surrounding a lake of fire.

Or, how about a frozen lake and track on fire?

 

[Torzilla]

Or, how about a frozen lake and track on fire?

even better, now we're really starting to get somewhere

 

[BrandonW77]

The last time I did a rolling start was in a previous league B and I were in, and it never seemed to work smoothly. Either the spread was too big, newcomers didn't know what to (biggest problem), or other things.

Yep, that's why I'd rather avoid the pace lap. It can be done if everybody is on the same page and familiar with the process but it doesn't take much for the whole thing to go wrong. My thought is that I don't want to implement a possibly confusing policy based on a situation (leaving the room between races to get forced on pole) that may never happen. I think we should probably take it on a case by case basis, if/when this situation arises I will make it very clear (via the chat box) to the driver(s) in question that he should start the race as normal but at the first SAFE opportunity he is to pull to the side and let the field go by. I will also notify everyone in the room to be aware that Driver X will be pulling over to let them by so be prepared. If Driver X does not comply within 1-2 laps they will receive 0 points for the whole night. This will not apply if a driver gets disconnected during the first race, they will be allowed to take the pole position since they didn't get to finish the first race.

If this method proves to be inadequate then we will look into using a pace lap. As JohnnyPenso pointed out to me though, I will be using elapsed times of races as a tie-breaker (if one is needed) and adding a pace lap will make the elapsed times inaccurate so I want to stay away from that if at all possible.

However it has been brought to my attention that it is not possible to create a track with a cross over or a jump though a ring of fire. In light of this I propse an oval snow track surrounding a lake of fire.

I don't have any custom tracks with jumps or fire but I believe I might have one with a loop-de-loop.

 

[Luxy]

Anyone practicing/tuning/testing tonight?

Edit:
Suzuka East: 0'54.9 (Pretty consistently 0'55.0 - 0'55.1)

Edit:
Madrid Mini: 0'58.8 (I can see another .2 or .3 in it)

Edit:
Shared some driver and Cappucino pics :-)

 

[BrandonW77]

Anyone practicing/tuning/testing tonight?

Edit:
Suzuka East: 0'54.9 (Pretty consistently 0'55.0 - 0'55.1)

That's a pretty good time, I haven't been under 0'55.0 yet.

 

[Cipher22]

Should I strengthen my chassis?

 

[BrandonW77]

Should I strengthen my chassis?

I prefer the non-strengthened chassis but I have Capp that is strengthened because it is sometimes better on certain tracks. It's cheap to build a second Capp.

 

[BrandonW77]

Anybody going to be up for some Capp racing this evening?

 

[Torzilla]

Anybody going to be up for some Capp racing this evening?

Id be up for it, just give me a time and a place

 

[BrandonW77]

I should probably have my lounge open around 8:30 or 9. If we can get at least 6 people we will do a a full-length test race of the double-header format from one of the tracks this season so everyone can get a feel for how it will work. Probably at Rome-R since it's later in the schedule and it will be a while before we go back to it.

I'll post details here this evening when the Caffeine Lounge is going to be open.

 

[OwensRacing]

I will be there. Will have company over however she is an old friend. One that been around since GT1 when we played 24 hrs at a time. So she is totally understanding and is cool with watching.

 

[Blind829]

...she is totally understanding and is cool with watching.

Marry her....haha

 

[BrandonW77]

marry her....haha

preach!!!

 

[Schadenfreude13]

I'll try to be there. With the time difference between East and West I might miss it though.