Car Behavior and Tire Temps after Patch 2.0PS4

[FuriousDemon]

I tried in the second race of the GT5 Championship. During practice at snetterton the temp is 10c.

Test 1. Started with default set-up. Only front left heat-up to green status al the other belle optimal temperature. Front reached 27psi rear 24.

Test 2. All 4 tyres pressure sharply down. Temperature result is the same After 4 laps with 22psi front 19 rear. No difference from test1.

Test3. Raised pressure up to 24-25 bar to start. At the end of 4 laps reached 31 psi front and 30 back. No difference in temperature.

I don't know, in my opinion for this car at least changes don't any difference.

Bah..i'm a real noob.

Based on test 3, and what F1Racer68 said, sounds like it works exactly as expected, right?

 

[paulpg87]

Based on test 3, and what F1Racer68 said, sounds like it works exactly as expected, right?

Tyres were really cold in all situations. In all tests they were blue and with the same degrees. I exptected different results.

 

[F1Racer68]

Tyres were really cold in all situations. In all tests they were blue and with the same degrees. I exptected different results.

Each of your tests was only 4 laps though. Try running 6 - 8 laps and see what happens. You are only just getting to the optimal pressures on lap 4.

 

[Shogun613]

In regards to the lift off oversteer, have you loosened up the engine braking?

 

[paulpg87]

Each of your tests was only 4 laps though. Try running 6 - 8 laps and see what happens. You are only just getting to the optimal pressures on lap 4.

Thank you i Will try.
However personally i think that this system should be parametrized cause in 10-15 minutes quali in career mode i do not have enough laps to get tyres to temp (7-8 laps).

 

[F1Racer68]

Thank you i Will try.
However personally i think that this system should be parametrized cause in 10-15 minutes quali in career mode i do not have enough laps to get tyres to temp (7-8 laps).

I can agree with that. No argument there with me.

Unfortunately that's the downside of putting highly realistic physics in and then trying to keep race lengths down for casual racers who just want to run short events, or who only have brief periods of time available.

Trying to be all things to everyone will always result in some unfortunate compromises.

 

[NLxAROSA]

In the next patch modern Touring cars Will be modified (tyre model) cause he thinks now they are too hard to handle.

The exact words were 'a little too difficult on the edge'. (well, not exact if you count the spelling error ) Doesn't sound like a very big change to me (it's not like they're broken now), but we'll see. I hope they can keep the nuances between the different TC's.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

going from a "little too difficult on edge" to more forgiving would be a huge change.

in geek speak you're widening the "peak" of the Fy vs alpha curve at a given load.

basically changed tire suppliers

 

[TommySalami]

I was testing different pressures by doing time trials with the Ginetta GT3 car on Silverstone National circuit, which produces very asymmetric tire temperatures, but I couldn't seem to get a consensus for whether equal tire pressures on left/right made a difference in handling/laptime, or if it was better to try and balance temperatures by changing pressures.

One thing I did notice is that with the relatively hot track temperature of 108F, the soft slicks were much more greasy and hard to control, and had less grip than the hard slicks. I was previously running soft slicks regardless but I'm going to have to think about that and test it more based on varying track temps

 

[NLxAROSA]

basically changed tire suppliers

I certainly hope the change won't be that big.

 

[The_American]

One thing I did notice is that with the relatively hot track temperature of 108F, the soft slicks were much more greasy and hard to control, and had less grip than the hard slicks. I was previously running soft slicks regardless but I'm going to have to think about that and test it more based on varying track temps

The in-game GT3 soft compound was designed to be run in cooler temps only. For most of the normal dry racing you guys are gonna do you wanna pick the Hard compound and balance your cars against the Hard slick.

edit: No, i do not remember the exact cut-off temperature. Generally only use Soft slicks for cold track/ambient like a (dry) "winter test" session or nighttime endurance racing

 

[SGETI]

No, i do not remember the exact cut-off temperature. Generally only use Soft slicks for cold track/ambient like a (dry) "winter test" session or nighttime endurance racing

Can you do all of us a huge favor and go back and find your notes regarding these different temp. settings?

 

[AbeWoz]

I have found that track temps below 25C (generally) i am able to run softs. But it varies track to track since some tracks/corners will heat tires more than others (obviously)

 

[ozwheels]

The in-game GT3 soft compound was designed to be run in cooler temps only. For most of the normal dry racing you guys are gonna do you wanna pick the Hard compound and balance your cars against the Hard slick.

edit: No, i do not remember the exact cut-off temperature. Generally only use Soft slicks for cold track/ambient like a (dry) "winter test" session or nighttime endurance racing

Regarding the working temperature range for GT3 softs. The coldest track temperature I could achieve was 55F and that was at midnight in December in Europe. The softs overheat after 3-4 laps reaching 200F. So far the soft tires appear to like the 160-180F range. Using hards with the same track conditions they only reach 165F and they appear to only work at 175-180F and upwards. Is this how soft tires are supposed to be where they overheat after only a couple laps even on the coldest of tracks? The hards are unusable at those cold temps, but work great with higher track temps and don't overheat at all.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

Regarding the working temperature range for GT3 softs. The coldest track temperature I could achieve was 55F and that was at midnight in December in Europe. The softs overheat after 3-4 laps reaching 200F. So far the soft tires appear to like the 160-180F range. Using hards with the same track conditions they only reach 165F and they appear to only work at 175-180F and upwards. Is this how soft tires are supposed to be where they overheat after only a couple laps even on the coldest of tracks? The hards are unusable at those cold temps, but work great with higher track temps and don't overheat at all.

how did you expect them to work if I may ask.

 

[ozwheels]

how did you expect them to work if I may ask.

The softs? I'd expect them to last a lot more than 3 laps without overheating and melting. Also a longer life seeing as the softs and hards aren't interchangeable for a given track temperature you're going to make a lot of pit stops when you're forced to use softs.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

if they last more than 3 laps w/o overheating or melting, where is the incentive for guys who run proper tire compound for the given track conditions?

just slap softs on and be done with it even when track temp is 120F.

that's not how it works

 

[F1Racer68]

Can you do all of us a huge favor and go back and find your notes regarding these different temp. settings?

Try using the chart at the top of this document as a guide. This was the tire selection chart for the 2016 Bathurst 12 Hour race.

A similar chart was also posted earlier in this thread.

The softs? I'd expect them to last a lot more than 3 laps without overheating and melting. Also a longer life seeing as the softs and hards aren't interchangeable for a given track temperature you're going to make a lot of pit stops when you're forced to use softs.

As I have said elsewhere before, GT3 racing doesn't have multiple compounds to choose from. Every single one of the series' are single tire manufacturer supplied, and the tire manufacturer dictates which compound is to be used at a given track/weekend. You'll notice that in the 2016 Bathurst 12 Hour document I have attached, they are limiting the choices to M, H and W. Medium (M) for the cooler parts of the day and the Hards (H) for the hotter parts of the day.

 

[ozwheels]

if they last more than 3 laps w/o overheating or melting, where is the incentive for guys who run proper tire compound for the given track conditions?

just slap softs on and be done with it even when track temp is 120F.

that's not how it works

You've misunderstood my post. The absolute coldest track temperature I could set was 55F, that's pretty cold for a racetrack. Even at that temperature the soft tires overheat after 3 laps. Common sense says use the hards if the softs are overheating, as you said yourself. The hard tires do not heat up with a 55F track. They are useless and 3 seconds off pace for the given example. The hard tires are fantastic when they can heat up to their operating temperature, they have good grip and good wear at their optimum temperature. The point being the soft tires have very high tire wear and lose grip extremely quickly when they turn greasy, this is all as you'd expect. The problem being they always overheat even on dead cold tracks.

@F1Racer68 Im not sure what that has to do with what I'm saying. The softs overheat extremely quickly without being pushed very hard when you should be using softs based on the track conditions. Since we only have softs and hards the softs are the tire of choice for cold tracks and following what you said the hards shouldn't be considered because the tire suppliers only allow one compound per weekend.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

I don't know what type of car you use in the game, but I've never used softs on a GT3 / GTE car and the times i have used softs on a car that makes sense to use them, my experience differed from yours greatly.

 

[ozwheels]

I don't know what type of car you use in the game, but I've never used softs on a GT3 / GTE car and the times i have used softs on a car that makes sense to use them, my experience differed from yours greatly.

Everything I'm talking about is with GT3 cars. Go to Silverstone set the date to December and the time to Midnight. The track should be around 55-60F. I've never heard of a hard compound tire that works with that track temperature. If you don't believe me try hards with those track conditions and see for yourself. The softs would then be used and then everything I've posted about the soft tires falls into place.

Edit: @Wayne Kerr You say you've only been using hard tires on GT3. What track temperatures have you been seeing?

 

[F1Racer68]

@F1Racer68 Im not sure what that has to do with what I'm saying. The softs overheat extremely quickly without being pushed very hard when you should be using softs based on the track conditions. Since we only have softs and hards the softs are the tire of choice for cold tracks and following what you said the hards shouldn't be considered because the tire suppliers only allow one compound per weekend.

Just saying I don't think there should even be an option in game to select the soft tire in the first place in GT3 as this is not a realistic tire compound choice in GT3.

 

[ozwheels]

Just saying I don't think there should even be an option in game to select the soft tire in the first place in GT3 as this is not a realistic tire compound choice in GT3.

If the hard tire worked in cooler conditions that would be an option and I'd be all for it. As it is the hard tire has 0 grip in cold conditions.

 

[TommySalami]

The in-game GT3 soft compound was designed to be run in cooler temps only. For most of the normal dry racing you guys are gonna do you wanna pick the Hard compound and balance your cars against the Hard slick.

edit: No, i do not remember the exact cut-off temperature. Generally only use Soft slicks for cold track/ambient like a (dry) "winter test" session or nighttime endurance racing

Can we have an explanation of how to optimize tire grip in the game in reference to pressures and temperatures?

 

[Wayne Kerr]

Everything I'm talking about is with GT3 cars. Go to Silverstone set the date to December and the time to Midnight. The track should be around 55-60F. I've never heard of a hard compound tire that works with that track temperature. If you don't believe me try hards with those track conditions and see for yourself. The softs would then be used and then everything I've posted about the soft tires falls into place.

Edit: @Wayne Kerr You say you've only been using hard tires on GT3. What track temperatures have you been seeing?

good question. i haven't looked at the lobbies i join with the GT3

i will say this however with the ligier p2 (which is what i usually play in when i'm not in "pickup lobby" mode)

pre patch and post patch -- same car, same setup, same track conditions, same compound, the tires take a while to come in. This is regardless if it's soft or hard compound. It's actually more realistic tbh, because you can't just blast out of the pits on stickers and have instant grip right away.

 

[ozwheels]

good question. i haven't looked at the lobbies i join with the GT3

i will say this however with the ligier p2 (which is what i usually play in when i'm not in "pickup lobby" mode)

pre patch and post patch -- same car, same setup, same track conditions, same compound, the tires take a while to come in. This is regardless if it's soft or hard compound. It's actually more realistic tbh, because you can't just blast out of the pits on stickers and have instant grip right away.

The problem with GT3 is really only when the track is cool and you have to use softs. I really don't have any complaints with the hard tire. I haven't seen the soft talked about much which makes me think everyone is using the default dates online which makes the track 100F+. Maybe that's why the default dates are what they are. If you use current date the track is in the 60F range which causes the problems.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

For you tire geeks.

attached is the michelin technical specs for most of their competition range tires. My french is pretty limited but some of these things aren't hard to figure out:

charge maximum is the maximum load on the tire. 1 daN is 10N and 1 N is 9.81kg; so treat 1daN as 1kg. 450daN is 450kg (total load, incl. downforce if applicable)

vitesse maximum should be self explanatory

jante nominal i think is the rim size for the tire

pression a froid is the minimum cold pressure in bar with 1 bar = 14.7 psi

distance d'un ralais is the distance per stint.

then in the chart, you have nombre de ralais which is # of stints that you can do on the tire, carrossage which is the camber value and pression a chaud which is hot pressure, again in bar.

look at the relationship between hot pressure, camber and # of stints you can run on most of their offerings.

 

[CopperySinger]

So patch 2.0 has been released and most of it for the better.

However, I have noticed that the car behavior (GT3's specifically) has been altered. The downshift protection obviously plays a part in this as braking zones have shifted, however i find that there is a lot of lift off over steer that i cannot tune out*, no matter what extremes i try. I believe it must be the differential but again i have tried many things, many extremes to try and get rid of it with no avail. The only "solution" that i have found is to heavily trail-break every corner. I also find that i cannot keep the tires warm or warm them up, even with the tire pressures set as low as possible, and at a normal track temperature.

Anyone have any recommendations or are having the same issues?

*I am a very adept tuner and a faster than average driver, well versed in sims... Just letting people know so they don't need to comment on simple tuning advice.

i just installed the update and having the same problems. also when tires are set to automatic, I get rain tires on clear weather track. also downshifting is sometimes not responding.

 

[fernandito]

@F1Racer68: Thanks for info. But if the optimum hot pressure for slicks is 32 PSI, what's the proper hot pressure for road tyres such as the Pirelli corsa mediums and hard compounds?

 

[Jack Dulmage]

In regards to the lift off oversteer, have you loosened up the engine braking?

Yes, like I said tried everything. However, i adjusted the tires with the new info posted in this thread and it worked perfectly. Still a little cold but warm enough to keep the rear stable. I believe the lack of FFB while in a braking zone was the reason, must have been slipping away on initial turn in before the corner but didn't realize till it was too late.

Just saying I don't think there should even be an option in game to select the soft tire in the first place in GT3 as this is not a realistic tire compound choice in GT3.

This isn't exactly true. I know in the Blaincpain series there is a soft tire, but it is only used in qually as it wears too quickly to make it to the pit window.

i just installed the update and having the same problems. also when tires are set to automatic, I get rain tires on clear weather track. also downshifting is sometimes not responding.

rain tires and downshifting I can't help with... the downshifting is an error I believe... too conservative... and the rain tires is most likely a bug.
The turn in oversteer was a result of lack of FFB for me... tire temps were the real issue... I reccomend throwing out your knowledge of tire pressure based on "sim experience"... start fresh. read the this thread!