Car Behavior and Tire Temps after Patch 2.0PS4

[paulpg87]

The in-game GT3 soft compound was designed to be run in cooler temps only. For most of the normal dry racing you guys are gonna do you wanna pick the Hard compound and balance your cars against the Hard slick.

edit: No, i do not remember the exact cut-off temperature. Generally only use Soft slicks for cold track/ambient like a (dry) "winter test" session or nighttime endurance racing

Yes. In Cayman cup is the same. You Need soft tyres in cold conditions (e.g. first practice Red bull ring).

The problem is when you don't have tyres options or the race is not long enough. In the Ginetta gt5 series i found myself in races with 10c and slick tyres. It is impossible to warm them and the AI doesn't seem to be affected.

Moreover the system is not really scalable leading to unrealistic situations. Maybe an option "off" for tyre temp like for fuel, wear etc should be available.

 

[F1Racer68]

@F1Racer68: Thanks for info. But if the optimum hot pressure for slicks is 32 PSI, what's the proper hot pressure for road tyres such as the Pirelli corsa mediums and hard compounds?

For those tires in particular, the info I am finding on various Track Day/Enthusiast sites is 34 - 36 PSI HOT, while Tire Rack recommends 30 PSI

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=63

It will be different for each car. That would be a good starting point though and then work up or down for the car you are driving.

EDIT: I did also just find this info on Tire Rack regarding "Competition Tire Pressuers". Again, it's just a guideline, but it does break it down nicely by car type, and also provides a troubleshooting chart as well.
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58

 

[twitcher]

@F1Racer68, regarding all GT3 championships being single tire - Super GT GT300 is an open tire series. They run all kinds of weird compounds.


I don't seem to be having the same issues as others with the soft tires in GT3. I can get them to last for 5-10 laps on pretty much any of the popular online tracks. I use the NISMO GTR, Soft Slicks, 1.67bar in the front, 1.64 bar in the rear. Starting pressures are 24psi, usually up to 31-32 psi by the end of lap 2, temps in the 90-110 range, depending on specific conditions and circuit.

There is a definite drop off in performance after a couple laps, but once through the initial drop, the performance levels out again and they're consistent for a solid 7 or 8 more laps.

I have had some moments where I've had very strange and massive spikes in tire temp, usually just on one tire. I found that just backing off a bit caused the tire to cool really quickly, and once it was back in normal range, I could push again. This just happened in testing sessions, backing off in a race would not be ideal, and I still don't know what caused the massive spikes.

I've also had instances where the colour on the tire wear indicator is strange. I've always understood blue to be cool, green ideal, and yellow/orange/red to be hot. For some reason, I'm getting the tire indicator to show inside tire temps as high as 115', but very dark green almost blue. At the same time, the outside edge is reading 95-100, and is bright green, almost yellow. Confuses the hell out of me.

 

[05XR8]

Here's something to add for the V8 Supercar. If the Dunlop in game, is as modelled for that 2013 car. Keep in mind, this is a "Hard" compound tyre. For 2017, a Super soft compound tyre has been constructed for sprint rounds and a new "Soft" tyre has replaced the Hard tyre. These tyres also grew in width( see videos below). http://www.supercars.com/news/championship/minimum-tyre-pressures-mandated/

After a lengthy investigation last year into several punctures in New Zealand and at Queensland Raceway, Dunlop made the initial recommendation on safety grounds.

The V8 Supercars Commission, on which the race teams have a majority vote, considered the safety of drivers as the priority to avoid any potential for serious injury.

The mandated pressure of 17psi will apply for all Championship events.

So, starting pressures too low, hurts the side wall of the tyre and takes longer for the tyre to heat up(lowest we can run is 1.4=20psi)
Also, one must take into account, Camber- https://www.motorsport.com/v8superc...er-pressure-changes-at-phillip-island-897007/

It has now been decided that the minimum pressure will be raised from 17psi to 19psi, while camber recommendations have been reinforced in a bid to lessen the strain on right front and rear rubber.
“It is recommended that Teams adopt a conservative approach in relation to static camber of less than -6.0 degrees front camber and less than -3.0 degrees rear camber in relation to their overall vehicle setup.

“It is recommended that Teams and Drivers take into consideration all the factors mentioned above.

“In consultation with Dunlop, the Commission unanimously resolved to mandate an increase to the minimum tyre pressure (D18.1.13) from 17PSI to 19PSI for Race 6 of the Virgin Australia Supercars Championship.

To add, some cars were running up to -10 degress front camber(which we can not set in game anyway).

 

[twitcher]

Does anyone know roughly what are ideal temps and pressures for some of the older cars? I'm trying to set up the '73 Fairlady 240ZG, and feel like I'm taking a total shot in the dark.

 

[ozwheels]

@F1Racer68, regarding all GT3 championships being single tire - Super GT GT300 is an open tire series. They run all kinds of weird compounds.


I don't seem to be having the same issues as others with the soft tires in GT3. I can get them to last for 5-10 laps on pretty much any of the popular online tracks. I use the NISMO GTR, Soft Slicks, 1.67bar in the front, 1.64 bar in the rear. Starting pressures are 24psi, usually up to 31-32 psi by the end of lap 2, temps in the 90-110 range, depending on specific conditions and circuit.

There is a definite drop off in performance after a couple laps, but once through the initial drop, the performance levels out again and they're consistent for a solid 7 or 8 more laps.

I have had some moments where I've had very strange and massive spikes in tire temp, usually just on one tire. I found that just backing off a bit caused the tire to cool really quickly, and once it was back in normal range, I could push again. This just happened in testing sessions, backing off in a race would not be ideal, and I still don't know what caused the massive spikes.

I've also had instances where the colour on the tire wear indicator is strange. I've always understood blue to be cool, green ideal, and yellow/orange/red to be hot. For some reason, I'm getting the tire indicator to show inside tire temps as high as 115', but very dark green almost blue. At the same time, the outside edge is reading 95-100, and is bright green, almost yellow. Confuses the hell out of me.

If you don't mind can you post what lap times you are doing on what tracks with the softs? Also do you think the softs should only last for 5-10 laps if you are forced to use softs based on track conditions? Softs at 90-110C is overheating a lot.

 

[twitcher]

If you don't mind can you post what lap times you are doing on what tracks with the softs? Also do you think the softs should only last for 5-10 laps if you are forced to use softs based on track conditions? Softs at 90-110C is overheating a lot.

I did some more testing, and I think I was wrong. I think I just got used to the softs, but after trying the hards at Leguna Seca with 42' track temp, I was able to get better and more consistent handling and lap times from the hards.

 

[ozwheels]

I did some more testing, and I think I was wrong. I think I just got used to the softs, but after trying the hards at Leguna Seca with 42' track temp, I was able to get better and more consistent handling and lap times from the hards.

42C correct?

 

[twitcher]

42C correct?

Correct, eh 👍

Edit: I also did another test at leguna in the spring, with 20'C ambient, 30'C track temp. I didnt spend an enormous amount of time dialling in the perfect pressures, and everything was symmetrical left to right. On the soft tire, I was able to do 1 fast lap after 2 warm up laps - pressures were around about 30psi, temps in the high 80s low 90s ('C). After 1 lap of pushing, the tires would overhear and lose traction very easily. Fastest I went was 1:25.8xx. On the hard tires, I was able to get pressure to hold stead at 32psi and temps in 85-90 'C range on the loaded (right) side of the car. Fastest I could get was 1:26.6xx, but I could lap within 1 second of that consistently. On the softs that wasn't possible.

 

[ozwheels]

Correct, eh 👍

Yea the hards work great at that temp. This discussion about softs is going in circles. It’s deja vu from pCars 1 6.0 tires.

 

[twitcher]

Yea the hards work great at that temp. This discussion about softs is going in circles. It’s deja vu from pCars 1 6.0 tires.

I wouldn't say they worked great. I only spent about 40 minutes in the session, but I couldn't get a good balance between starting pressures, and then not overheating the tires. I could make it so the tires wouldn't overheat, but then they had way too much pressure, felt like balloons.

When I did the other test at 30'C track temp with the hards, I found a much better balance between pressure and temp.

 

[ozwheels]

I wouldn't say they worked great. I only spent about 40 minutes in the session, but I couldn't get a good balance between starting pressures, and then not overheating the tires. I could make it so the tires wouldn't overheat, but then they had way too much pressure, felt like balloons.

When I did the other test at 30'C track temp with the hards, I found a much better balance between pressure and temp.

What you described with the hards and softs at Laguna Seca is actually a great example of the problem. The hards work as expected in warm conditions, but the softs do not work as expected in cool conditions. Naming the compounds soft and hard is misleading to people that are expecting a pCars 1 experience from the tires. They could be named cold and hot tires with what SMS is trying to replicate.

 

[Wayne Kerr]

driving style has to change for the compound change, especially on laguna where there is absolutely zero place for the tires to catch a break. I can't pitch the car as hard into the turns on softs as I could on hards. I can really pitch it in on turn in and have a really aggressive mid corner input on the hards and i know it won't overheat, while on the softs, I had to finger tip it in but I can lean on it once it sets and use the grip that way. If I drove the softs the same way I drive it on the hards, the temps just skyrocket and doesn't come back.

 

[Johnnypenso]

driving style has to change for the compound change, especially on laguna where there is absolutely zero place for the tires to catch a break. I can't pitch the car as hard into the turns on softs as I could on hards. I can really pitch it in on turn in and have a really aggressive mid corner input on the hards and i know it won't overheat, while on the softs, I had to finger tip it in but I can lean on it once it sets and use the grip that way. If I drove the softs the same way I drive it on the hards, the temps just skyrocket and doesn't come back.

Great observation. It's this kind of depth of simulation that really sets this game apart from the GT's of the world. Not everyone wants this level of depth and complexity but, for those that do, it's a godsend.

 

[mattikake]

Awesome thread. Been great and informative reading!

Great observation. It's this kind of depth of simulation that really sets this game apart from the GT's of the world. Not everyone wants this level of depth and complexity but, for those that do, it's a godsend.

This is the thing. I had no idea that there was this level of realism and it should've been more openly advertised. It's an impressive effort indeed.

So I have a question - I know Pirelli were the tyre consultants for PC2. Are all the tyres based on their input or is it only the Pirelli branded tyres in the game and other brands have their own optimal pressures and temps?

 

[Wayne Kerr]

TBH, I don't know whether that is "simulated" or not; but when I see a certain way I'm driving is causing the tires screaming for help, bitching about the physics at that moment isn't going to help get the guy behind me off my ass.

to put it in context

https://wtf1.com/post/formula-2-driver-gets-shut-down-by-his-engineer-over-team-radio/

 

[twitcher]

I just did an 8 lap online race at Brno, NISMO GT3, ambient was 15C, track was 22C.

The setup I went with had Hards selected...and they were way too hard. I could not get more than 75C or 30psi into them....it was like driving on ice, and I could see other people in the lobby having the same struggle.

I may set up a private test in the same conditions, and try the softs to see what I get.

 

[ozwheels]

I just did an 8 lap online race at Brno, NISMO GT3, ambient was 15C, track was 22C.

The setup I went with had Hards selected...and they were way too hard. I could not get more than 75C or 30psi into them....it was like driving on ice, and I could see other people in the lobby having the same struggle.

I may set up a private test in the same conditions, and try the softs to see what I get.

Eventually as time goes on more people will venture onto cold tracks and discover the softs versus hards debacle.

 

[twitcher]

Eventually as time goes on more people will venture onto cold tracks and discover the softs versus hards debacle.

So where do you think the cutoff is? I know it varies from track to track, depending on the number of corners, type of corners, etc, but do you know roughly what temps you switch from Soft to Hard?

 

[paulpg87]

Eventually as time goes on more people will venture onto cold tracks and discover the softs versus hards debacle.

Yes soft tyres solve the problem in cold tracks... when It is available cause there are many Cars where you don't have soft tyres and it is impossible. Forum example qualify last uk2 Ginetta junior. Also Ginetta gt5 does not get into the right temp.

In gt4 you solve the problem with soft tyres.

 

[ozwheels]

So where do you think the cutoff is? I know it varies from track to track, depending on the number of corners, type of corners, etc, but do you know roughly what temps you switch from Soft to Hard?

I’m not really sure to be honest. At a guess I’d say around 90F. As you said though track characteristics make a big difference. On Red Bull Ring with temps around 100F hards don’t work simply because the track doesn’t work them hard enough. Softs again will overheat even more the further you get away from 55F track temp.

Yes soft tyres solve the problem in cold tracks... when It is available cause there are many Cars where you don't have soft tyres and it is impossible. Forum example qualify last uk2 Ginetta junior. Also Ginetta gt5 does not get into the right temp.

In gt4 you solve the problem with soft tyres.

Basically every post I’ve made in this thread is about how the softs don’t solve that problem in GT3 at least because they overheat very easily. Overheating softs or cold hards, pick your poison.

 

[paulpg87]

I’m not really sure to be honest. At a guess I’d say around 90F. As you said though track characteristics make a big difference. On Red Bull Ring with temps around 100F hards don’t work simply because the track doesn’t work them hard enough. Softs again will overheat even more the further you get away from 55F track temp.
Basically every post I’ve made in this thread is about how the softs don’t solve that problem in GT3 at least because they overheat very easily. Overheating softs or cold hards, pick your poison.

On ps4 Career mode no overheating neither wear (It is a bug that is making the game playable... Incredibile how bad the situation is)

 

[F1Racer68]

Awesome thread. Been great and informative reading!



This is the thing. I had no idea that there was this level of realism and it should've been more openly advertised. It's an impressive effort indeed.

So I have a question - I know Pirelli were the tyre consultants for PC2. Are all the tyres based on their input or is it only the Pirelli branded tyres in the game and other brands have their own optimal pressures and temps?

I suspect it is mainly based on the Pirelli data, but from all my online research they all seem to have similar pressure and temperature characteristics. This does make sense too, sinc ethey are all trying to competet with each ohter in the market place.

 

[twitcher]

I suspect it is mainly based on the Pirelli data, but from all my online research they all seem to have similar pressure and temperature characteristics. This does make sense too, sinc ethey are all trying to competet with each ohter in the market place.

Any idea where to dig up info for the vintage race cars? Especially since many have "generic" SMS brand tires.

 

[twitcher]

This tire temp game is a real struggle

Just did a 5 lap online race at Zolder, GT3. Ambient was 23C, track temp 31C.

Seeing as the temp was 31C, I figured I'd go for the Hards. Nope, wrong choice. In the race, they were holding at 32psi, but the temp was dropping all race. By the end of lap 5, my hottest tire was in the low 80s. It was like driving on ice. I suppose I could lower the pressures even more, but I'm already only a handful of clicks away from minimum, so not sure if that really going to solve the problem.

 

[NLxAROSA]

@twitcher I think these cases are best posted on the official forums so you can get a response from Doug or one of the other devs directly.

 

[ozwheels]

@twitcher I think these cases are best posted on the official forums so you can get a response from Doug or one of the other devs directly.

In what sub forum? I’ve made several threads that ended up going no where.

@twitcher Welcome to the I have to use softs because the track is cool even though I know they’ll overheat club. There’s two of us now!

 

[NLxAROSA]

In what sub forum? I’ve made several threads that ended up going no where.

I think anything goes, as I see threads about these topics just about anywhere (General, PS4, Xbox). Maybe @The_American can point us in the right direction?

 

[FuriousDemon]

I have not had any "ice" tires issues at all and I've driven in plenty of 7+ lap races at varying times of day and season on and off line in different classes (most of the time I just use automatic tire). I'm wondering if this is a console (and specific user) only issue.

 

[twitcher]

@twitcher I think these cases are best posted on the official forums so you can get a response from Doug or one of the other devs directly.

I got banned from the PCARS forum in week 1

This is a thread about tire temps in 2.0....what's wrong with posting my experiences? I'm hoping others will do the same, so that together we can come to some sort of understanding of when and where to use the different compounds.