Chances of Porsche in GT6

[Johnnypenso]

I'm not suggesting Porsche hates RUF. I'm suggesting if Porsche gets the feeling PD and others are OK with having RUF's represent the beautiful Porsche chassis, it may give them the impression it's good enough. Wouldn't you think it'd be a bit of a turnoff if PD modelled 10 stunning premium RUF's and put them in GT7? I think there's a reason not a single RUF is HD, and I think the reason is they're sitting and waiting with respect for Porsche.

The opposite could just as likely be true. Porsche could be looking at PD and saying, "Hhmmph, look how they treat the Rufs in the game, not a single one of them is a premium. No interiors. They haven't modeled a new one in a decade!! How disrespectful they are to our little sister. Obviously they could care less about our cars."

Totally saying that.. the likelyhood that those playing arcade-type of games for fun are also predominently playing GT or Forza or iRacing, pCARS, AC, Rfactor etc. where actual understanding of car behaviour and racing etiquette is required.. is low, At this stage Porsche has no place in NFS games and be enjoyed so much more in GT by gamers and motorsports fans. (the fact Logitech wheels may not be supported could be a bit of a blow though)

Racing etiquette is required in GT? Since when? You can smash and bash your way through the entire career mode with no consequences at all. You can smash and bash your way through open lobbies and your only consequence is, if the host happens to notice you and happens to care, you might get kicked. At that point, you are simply free to join any other lobby and do the same thing. SRF, RS tires and a host of driving aids means you have to know nothing about car behaviour or racing in order to finish the game or race online.

 

[occasionalracer]

The opposite could just as likely be true. Porsche could be looking at PD and saying, "Hhmmph, look how they treat the Rufs in the game, not a single one of them is a premium. No interiors. They haven't modeled a new one in a decade!! How disrespectful they are to our little sister. Obviously they could care less about our cars."

Maybe, if they're blind to the rest of the game and don't understand the 'car modeling limit/empoyee shortage' issue. PD does need a good 10 more modelers for this new PS4 venture I think.

Racing etiquette is required in GT? Since when? You can smash and bash your way through the entire career mode with no consequences at all. You can smash and bash your way through open lobbies and your only consequence is, if the host happens to notice you and happens to care, you might get kicked. SRF, RS tires and a host of driving aids means you have to know nothing about car behaviour or racing in order to finish the game or race online.

Hmm, it's true if you've got that good group of guys who want to do that.. clearly online needs to improve, yes AI too, but I could give a rats buttox how sophisticated the PD is able to get the bots ability, I want all the best efforts to go towards the physics engine and that it all runs buttery smooth online.[/QUOTE]

 

[Tornado]

Again, I guarentee you NFS isn't selling because of Porsche, it's selling simply because of the type of game it is and it's fun for lots of people.

Perish the thought.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Why take a negative approach? We should be petitioning PD/Kaz to bring Porsche to the series. EA going bankrupt will not necessarily reduce the price of the license in the future. GT is supposed to be the golden console driving sim, outbid the rest of the contenders for the license.

I don't want to take a negative approach as well. EA going bankrupt will also mean lots of people will be out of a job and that's a terrible thing to wish upon just to put a manufacturer in a game. But as long as they hold the license EA will always try to price out the competition. I bet if the price is something reasonable Sony/PD would have coughed up the money a long time ago. It's not as easy as outbidding the license, especially if it's exclusive. EA going bankrupt means Porsche could finally break the contract without getting sued (because there's no company to sue them) and other games can finally purchase the license for a reasonable price.

In the meantime, I feel that we should petition PD to put as many premium RUFs in the game as possible.

 

[RACECAR]

I'm not suggesting Porsche hates RUF. I'm suggesting if Porsche gets the feeling PD and others are OK with having RUF's represent the beautiful Porsche chassis, it may give them the impression it's good enough. Wouldn't you think it'd be a bit of a turnoff if PD modelled 10 stunning premium RUF's and put them in GT7? I think there's a reason not a single RUF is HD, and I think the reason is they're sitting and waiting with respect for Porsche.

No, not really

If anything, my feeling on this is simply:

Personally, I find it hard to believe that RUF is so powerful of an influence on Porsche that the way they are treated by PD is what will persuade them to GT.

Totally saying that.. the likelyhood that those playing arcade-type of games for fun are also predominently playing GT or Forza or iRacing, pCARS, AC, Rfactor etc. where actual understanding of car behaviour and racing etiquette is required.. is low, At this stage Porsche has no place in NFS games and be enjoyed so much more in GT by gamers and motorsports fans. (the fact Logitech wheels may not be supported could be a bit of a blow though)

You have no idea how narrowminded that is. I can name you plenty of full on sims where people drive anyway but the way that satisfies "Racing Etiquette". Even iRacing still has its idiots who have no concept of the Racing line or special awareness.

Also, I'm sorry but this attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. This high and mightly mindset needs to stop, we aren't some high society that deems who should and shouldn't have a car manufacturer, we're just people who enjoy a niche hobby. There are people that are into sims because its fun and guess what, that's a huge chunk of us sim racers.

 

[Mt. Lynx]

Didn't Kaz say he had "a good relationship with Porsche", at some point?
The sole reason that GT does not have Porsche is money.

That said, the GT franchise have taken steps that has changed hiw the world percieves driving games - IE GT academy and the recent FIA endorsement. Even Vision GT is something that the car industry can percieve as a good platform for advertising.
Basically, PD have created a game that is attractive for car manufacturers for advertising purposes.
I suspect that exclusive licensing will very soon be a thing of the past because of this.

 

[occasionalracer]

No, not really

If anything, my feeling on this is simply:

Personally, I find it hard to believe that RUF is so powerful of an influence on Porsche that the way they are treated by PD is what will persuade them to GT.

Yes both would be optimal. All I'm saying is that maybe PD has left the RUF's standard out of general respect while waiting to see if Porsche is willing to make a change to their contract.

You have no idea how narrowminded that is. I can name you plenty of full on sims where people drive anyway but the way that satisfies "Racing Etiquette". Even iRacing still has its idiots who have no concept of the Racing line or special awareness.

I understand that, but at least sims have good tracks and physics to present the oppertunity for the Porsche's to race as intended in RL.. for those who want to of course. In current NFS's it's kind of not possible.

Also, I'm sorry but this attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. This high and mightly mindset needs to stop, we aren't some high society that deems who should and shouldn't have a car manufacturer, we're just people who enjoy a niche hobby. There are people that are into sims because its fun and guess what, that's a huge chunk of us sim racers.

We have just about every manufacturer on-board in Gran Turismo, to me the question is why Porsche is stepping out of line in such a silly manner. If at least they'd be representing themselves in a half-proper racing game, fine, but just cutting this exclusiveness would be best for all, and we're talking about exposure to millions more gamers, from yourgsters to knowledgeable enthusiasts.

Yes, I agree we're just gamers wanting to have fun, I'll have no less fun with RUF only, it's just being able sit back and race around and stare at the design of vehicles. GT's physics engine needs to be a bit stronger anyway to be able to set apart the fine differences in suspension and drivetrain of the two..

 

[Grayfox]

PD do not need Porsches permission to model their cars.

Just like when PD modeled the Nomad Diablo in GT2 or the Porsche 911(990) that was in GT3.

They can model them but they cant use them without a license.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes both would be optimal. All I'm saying is that maybe PD has left the RUF's standard out of general respect while waiting to see if Porsche is willing to make a change to their contract.

Sorry but this is just silly. You have no proof of this and it defies all logic and common sense. Giant corporations don't make business decisions using the reasoning of 12 year olds.

I understand that, but at least sims have good tracks and physics to present the oppertunity for the Porsche's to race as intended in RL.. for those who want to of course. In current NFS's it's kind of not possible.

And again, Porsche does not care, or they wouldn't have hooked up with NFS in the first place. This only matters to you and a handful of gamers.

We have just about every manufacturer on-board in Gran Turismo, to me the question is why Porsche is stepping out of line in such a silly manner. If at least they'd be representing themselves in a half-proper racing game, fine, but just cutting this exclusiveness would be best for all, and we're talking about exposure to millions more gamers, from yourgsters to knowledgeable enthusiasts.

Yes, I agree we're just gamers wanting to have fun, I'll have no less fun with RUF only, it's just being able sit back and race around and stare at the design of vehicles. GT's physics engine needs to be a bit stronger anyway to be able to set apart the fine differences in suspension and drivetrain of the two..

Cutting the exclusiveness would be best for all? All whom? Porsche is doing what is best for them for their own reasons. They are very good at what they do.

 

[2clicks]

If we are so pessimistic about Kaz ever visiting GTP, then I honestly don't have a clue about how he's going to get the message that a select minority of Gran Turismo players want him to secure a licensing deal with Porsche.

 

[snowgt]

I'm sure many of you have read this before, but this is from a Eurogamer-interview from before GT6-launch.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-29-kazunori-yamauchi-profile

The cars designed and assembled by Stuttgart marque Porsche have frustratingly been a no-go area for many racing games, thanks to a lengthy licensing deal the manufacturer has in place with EA. "We actually have a good relationship with Porsche - and as soon as the situation with their contract changes, one of these days they'll appear in Gran Turismo," says Yamauchi. With Gran Turismo 6 looking to introduce 12 months worth of additional cars, will it be happening within the lifespan of Polyphony's next game? "That, I'm not sure about. I think the Porsche and EA contract, the terms are a little bit longer."

Of course, you can interpret many things into this. "Within the lifespan" of GT6 is a quantity that even Kaz doesn't know specifics about, not at the time the interview took place, and probably not even now. I'm sure that to this day they have no idea when GT7 will be released (which would mark the end of the GT6-lifespan), so, to make a prediction, when Porsche would come to the GT-series, is just about impossible even for him. I'm sure he knows when the EA-contract ends, but it's also likely that he's under a NDA not to make these specifics public (which, in turn, makes it impossible for him to be specific from which release onwards Porsche could theoretically be a part of). Apart from that, I doubt that they would introduce Porsche as DLC a lot after GT6's launch. So, the safest bet is probably GT7, provided that the EA-contract has run out by that time.

What is promising though, is his confidence that Porsche will eventually come to GT. NFS Porsche Unleashed was released early in 2000, so maybe the contract runs out after a round 15 years...? There's always hope.

 

[MarchingSaint]

Sorry but this is just silly. You have no proof of this and it defies all logic and common sense. Giant corporations don't make business decisions using the reasoning of 12 year olds.
And again, Porsche does not care, or they wouldn't have hooked up with NFS in the first place. This only matters to you and a handful of gamers.

Cutting the exclusiveness would be best for all? All whom? Porsche is doing what is best for them for their own reasons. They are very good at what they do.

They might know it, but the fact that they prefer the Nfs franchise over Gt's just bothers me; in shift2 they went so far granting them complete liveries with the correct position (i.e the falken GT2)
Even so the game to me is so-so, driving is a costant pain and the events you race in aren't that exciting.
Imho if Porsche was in Gt, it would be one of the most picked cars in the game, just think about the possibilities; reenacting historic races or putting a valid lmp1 competitor on the grid during the various endurance events.
These are nevertheless my views

 

[occasionalracer]

Sorry but this is just silly. You have no proof of this and it defies all logic and common sense. Giant corporations don't make business decisions using the reasoning of 12 year olds.

lol ok, are you aware a good portion of the entire videogame industry relies on and caters to this age group?

And again, Porsche does not care, or they wouldn't have hooked up with NFS in the first place. This only matters to you and a handful of gamers.

This conversation has just gotten very pointless.

Cutting the exclusiveness would be best for all? All whom? Porsche is doing what is best for them for their own reasons. They are very good at what they do.

Not sure if to insert a facepalm here. ALL racing game developers, your beloved Project Cars, Forza, AC, iRacing and GRAN TURISMO! This accounts for millions upon millions f gamers.

 

[SiTHR4C3R]

the fact that they prefer the Nfs franchise over Gt's just bothers me

Umm the GT franchise was not what it is today all those years ago when the deal was made. It took a few years for GT to catch on as the gamers were much more into Hot Pursuit games in that day. NFS was a heck of a lot more popular then GT back in the day.

 

[Downhill Dino]

Not really when GT2 was a huge game at the time, and you also had Ridge Racer in its prime. Hot Pursuit may have been a great success but more popular? No.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Not sure if to insert a facepalm here. ALL racing game developers, your beloved Project Cars, Forza, AC, iRacing and GRAN TURISMO! This accounts for millions upon millions f gamers.

Facepalm yourself maybe. I think you're confusing your own personal desires with how theworld works. Porsche does not care about what is best for GT, PCars, iRacing, you, me etc. If you're arguing it would be better for us to have Porsche I agree, but Porsche determines who gets the license. If PD wants it bad enough they'll pay for it.

 

[SiTHR4C3R]

Not really when GT2 was a huge game at the time, and you also had Ridge Racer in its prime. Hot Pursuit may have been a great success but more popular? No.

GT1, GT2, and GT3 never got "huge" IMO, GT4 was when GT craze really got started. I bought my first PS1 as a combo with GT and bought each GT as they came out, moved to PS2 for GT3, and so on. I think it was Hot Pursuit 2 at GT1 time and HP was hands down without question a much much much more popular game. GT had a tight following but it was soooooo much smaller than its been since GT4. At that time NFS games touched more consoles than GT and had been around longer.

 

[Tornado]

lol ok, are you aware a good portion of the entire videogame industry relies on and caters to this age group?

Are you aware that 12 year olds probably aren't the target market for Porsche automobiles, the Gran Turismo series, the NFS series or (as recent demographic breakdowns suggest) most big budget games in general?

This conversation has just gotten very pointless.

I'd say that ship sailed when you said with a straight face that because little kids play video games, billion dollar companies should perform their business decisions as if they were run by little kids. Really, when combined with this bit here:

We have just about every manufacturer on-board in Gran Turismo, to me the question is why Porsche is stepping out of line in such a silly manner.

It's like you don't understand that businesses exchange services with each other for money before worrying about complaints on the Internet.

 

[Downhill Dino]

GT1, GT2, and GT3 never got "huge" IMO, GT4 was when GT craze really got started. I bought my first PS1 as a combo with GT and bought each GT as they came out, moved to PS2 for GT3, and so on. I think it was Hot Pursuit 2 at GT1 time and HP was hands down without question a much much much more popular game. GT had a tight following but it was soooooo much smaller than its been since GT4. At that time NFS games touched more consoles than GT and had been around longer.

As much as I don't want to get into this kind of discussion, I'm going to, but I'd like to see some sales figures as I'm pretty sure GT had surpassed Need for Speed. Would also like to find Ridge Racer's sales.

But since I can find GT sales: 10.8, 9.3, and 14.8 weren't huge enough to beat GT4's 11.4 million copies? We're talking about 3 iterations here. Not really a tight following and definitely a lot of consoles touched here.

 

[SiTHR4C3R]

As much as I don't want to get into this kind of discussion, I'm going to, but I'd like to see some sales figures as I'm pretty sure GT had surpassed Need for Speed. Would also like to find Ridge Racer's sales.

But since I can find GT sales: 10.8, 9.3, and 14.8 weren't huge enough to beat GT4's 11.4 million copies? We're talking about 3 iterations here. Not really a tight following and definitely a lot of consoles touched here.

NFS had a 4 year head start on GT

"Need for Speed is the most successful racing video game series in the world, and one of the most successful video game franchise of all time. Over 140 million copies of games in the series have been sold to date"

But no, GT's 10.8, 9.3, 14.8, 11.5 million copies sold and add in the rest if the GT titles, doesn't even come close to the NFS franchise, NFS has touched a whole lot more consoles

 

[Downhill Dino]

Okay, but that's today. We're talking PS1 days.

 

[SiTHR4C3R]

Okay, but that's today. We're talking PS1 days.

NFS was 4 years old when GT1 was released, I feel you, I like GT way more than any NFS game, but it is what it is, the highest selling racing video game franchise to date.

 

[Downhill Dino]

...

Did you just not understand what I said at all? Or what I've been saying this entire time?

Are you even reading my posts?

 

[occasionalracer]

Are you aware that 12 year olds probably aren't the target market for Porsche automobiles, the Gran Turismo series, the NFS series or (as recent demographic breakdowns suggest) most big budget games in general?

Yes I obviously know the average age of gamers these days reaches far higher than 20 years ago. In the case of this subject, I would not hesitate to assume this (with a straight face):

Average agegroup of (current) NFS players: ~ 6yrs. old - 20yrs. old
Average agegroup of Gran Turismo players: ~ 6yrs. old - 40+yrs. old

I'd say that ship sailed when you said with a straight face that because little kids play video games, billion dollar companies should perform their business decisions as if they were run by little kids. Really, when combined with this bit here:
It's like you don't understand that businesses exchange services with each other for money before worrying about complaints on the Internet.

I completely understand WHY Porsche went ahead and signed this deal (which no one knows the exact terms of).. YES the MONEY.. it's a careless decision in my opinion however. To the average motorsport enthusiast gamer it made sense in the Porsche Unleached days.

Where I'm coming from with my opinion is the principal of what's going on with the 'misuse' of the Porsche brand by EA. I'll say it again with a straight face, Porsche deserves better, and of course it's entirely up to them to decide what matters most, that money, or that many more people could enjoy some of the brilliant lineup of sportscars that have been pushed out the factory in Zuffenhausen for the last 50 years, in a proper game. We know from this poll lots of people would pay for a Porsche DLC pack in GT, Forza and elsewhere.

I bet you collectively Porsche could rake in about the same amount by setting their exclusive license mindset aside, I would hope so anyway, the racing game market has progressed much further than they probably would have thought the last time the contract was inked. Again, it's the pricipal I'm arguing here, let the ethusiasts have fun with their cars.

 

[Tornado]

NFS had a 4 year head start on GT

NFS was 4 years old when GT1 was released

I'm curious if you are deliberately being misleading on the significance of that statement in this context, or if you legitimately think a niche game on a system with total sales only 1/5th that of the first GT game added significantly to the NFS series' sales success before the PS2 generation.

 

[SiTHR4C3R]

I'm curious if you are deliberately being misleading on the significance of that statement in this context, or if you legitimately think a niche game on a system with total sales only 1/5th that of the first GT game added significantly to the NFS series' sales success before the PS2 generation.

Ouch, "deliberately misleading"? I think talking like GT selling more units in 98 vs NFS in 94 being comparable is what's misleading. Just my opinion though.

I was actually speaking to them having a fan base 4 years in the making when GT was just being discovered

I think when GT came out NFS had 4 years in the market, in 94 game sales were not as high as in 98 so the sales numbers of the NFS title in 94 don't reflect anything really. NFS was in the process of building a fan base when GT was released, GT as awesome as it is was the new breed at the time. NFS has continued on to sell 140 million copies in the franchise to date and that's just NFS, EA also made a game specifically for Porsche to top it off, so if Porsche is looking at numbers of units sold plus their own dedicated game they couldn't of picked a better company to get in bed with.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

This is probably a naive point of view, but if you want Porsches in GT or any other game the best way you can help is by not buying any NFS or EA products. If EA goes bankrupt then the license will finally be freed. Despite the latest NFS games selling poorly it's gonna take something really major to bring down a company like EA though.

I don't think EA has much to worry about seeing as they have some of the most popular games on the market. While IMO the more recent NFS releases were not very good there were still plenty of people who bought them. The other sports titles they release sell very well. I my self have bought several copies of Madden NFL, NCAA Football and Tiger Woods. EA also owns Maxis which makes what may be the biggest money maker of all games.

Average agegroup of (current) NFS players: ~ 6yrs. old - 20yrs. old
Average agegroup of Gran Turismo players: ~ 6yrs. old - 40+yrs. old

While I would agree that NFS mostly appeals to younger players, games like GT and Forza appeal to us older folks. I know several 50+ yr. olds who play either GT or Forza or both and a few who are over 70. I was over 40 when I started playing GT and Forza, before that it was mostly NFS

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes I obviously know the average age of gamers these days reaches far higher than 20 years ago. In the case of this subject, I would not hesitate to assume this (with a straight face):

Average agegroup of (current) NFS players: ~ 6yrs. old - 20yrs. old
Average agegroup of Gran Turismo players: ~ 6yrs. old - 40+yrs. old

Pure guesswork and 6-20 is a range not an average.

Where I'm coming from with my opinion is the principal of what's going on with the 'misuse' of the Porsche brand by EA. I'll say it again with a straight face, Porsche deserves better, and of course it's entirely up to them to decide what matters most, that money, or that many more people could enjoy some of the brilliant lineup of sportscars that have been pushed out the factory in Zuffenhausen for the last 50 years, in a proper game. We know from this poll lots of people would pay for a Porsche DLC pack in GT, Forza and elsewhere.

I'm not sure about paid DLC in GT. Purely my opinion, but I get the feeling around here that a lot of GT players are overjoyed about free DLC and can't see any reason to pay for it ever even if free means far less DLC overall. Whether they know it or not, I think PD is setting up a real dilemma by not throwing some paid DLC out with the free stuff, essentially creating a mindset that PD=Free DLC. I'd have my doubts as to whether PD could make it profitable to release Porsche DLC.

 

[Tornado]

Ouch, "deliberately misleading"? I think talking like GT selling more units in 98 vs NFS in 94 being comparable is what's misleading. Just my opinion though.

Very true, which makes it all the stranger that you brought up the first game in the first place when first questioned specifically about sales numbers of both series before your supposed date that GT got "huge". You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, talking about sales success only when it is convenient for your conclusions (and for the record the GT series was nearing critical mass regarding hype before GT2 even came out, and GT3 was easily and demonstrably the most hyped in the series) but otherwise falling back on the nebulous concept of "fanbase size" .



The Need for Speed was a niche game on a doomed console 4 years before GT1 was released. For this discussion it might as well not existed before the PSX port, since it's "fanbase" essentially ended with those unlucky enough to buy into the 3DO. It didn't get any sort of major sales success until it was ported to the PSX and Saturn, and any fan base it theoretically gained from its "headstart" was more than eclipsed when the first GT was immediately the best selling game the PSX ever had. The NFS franchise didn't come anywhere near the sales juggernaut the GT series was out of the gate until after GT3 came out and NFS went truly multiplatform with Hot Pursuit 2.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

just FYI: NFS was on the PC all along though the 3do version was released first. My brother had NFS 1 for the Saturn, I had NFS 1 for the PC. Never even saw a 3do console.

I also had every version that followed on the PC up to and including Pro Street. I ended up getting Shift and Shift 2 but did not like either of them.