Chemtrails or Contrails?

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Poverty

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I really wanna know whats going on. Now im not one to buy into all these conspiracy theories, but why is it that some planes leave these trails,a nd others dont when being in the exact same conditions?

According to the U.S. Air Force, jet contrails form above 33,000 feet when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses ice crystals into pencil-thin vapor trails that quickly vanish like the wake behind a boat.

Chemtrails (CTs) look like contrails initially, but are much thicker, extend across the sky, and are often laid down in varying patterns of Xs, tic-tac-toe grids, crosshatched and parallel lines. Instead of quickly dissipating, chemtrails expand and drip feathers and mare’s tails. in 30 minutes or less, they open into wispy formations, which join together, forming a thin white veil or a "fake cirrus-type cloud" that persists for hours.

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Since approximately 1998, thousands of people started noticing airplanes spraying X’s, parallel lines, and grid patterns across our skies. These trails initially look like contrails but actually aren’t. According to the U.S. Air Force, contrails are condensation trails and happen when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses ice crystals into pencil-thin vapor trails that quickly vanish like the wave behind a boat, very much like your breath when talking outside on a cold winter day. Chemtrails, on the other hand, linger for hours and will spread out to form large areas of “cloud” cover.

There are several theories as to why these operations may be occurring. However, most of the documentation available points to geo-engineering and space weaponry as the reasons that these spray operations are occurring. A concept that keeps popping up in major governmental studies is the idea of spraying aluminum oxide particles into the atmosphere to create a sunscreen.

This concept is exactly what respected scientist Edward Teller, the father of the H-Bomb, called for in 1997 while at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories. In a government sponsored report called Global Warming and Ice Ages, he suggested the scattering of 1 million tons of materials into the atmosphere in order to reflect 1% of incoming sunlight. He states that it would be cheaper to slow global warming through "stratospheric deployment of oxide particulates" than to actually slow down greenhouse gases connected with fossil-fired energy production.

The sunscreen concept is also called for in a major congressional study titled Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming, which was sponsored by the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of Engineering, and the Institute of Medicine. This huge study was reported in 1992 and is the textbook on greenhouse gasses, global warming, policy decisions and mitigations. In this study, they talk about spraying the atmosphere with “stratospheric dust or soot” and to “simulate clouds” in order to mitigate global warming. The study also suggested dumping iron into the ocean to stimulate plankton that could potentially eat carbon dioxide. By looking at Moss Landing Marine Laboratories’ recent dumping of iron in the ocean to do just that, you can see that these are not just theories. They are theories in actual use. But the iron theory backfired when a large amount of fish died. So what are the unreported consequences of spraying the atmosphere?

Ken Caldera, also from Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories, is a concerned scientist who said that this type of spray operation could have grave environmental consequences and could cause serious health concerns. But it seems they cared nothing about Mr. Caldera’s concerns.

Our children are now even being taught this aerial obscuration concept in our schools. In the level one science book, "Essential Interactions" by Centre Point Learning, Inc., a photo of a jet is titled "Particle Air" and has the caption "Jet engines running on richer fuel would add particles to the atmosphere to create a sunscreen". This is in the section titled "Solutions for Global Warming". In the same section they also show a picture of a helicopter dumping iron into the ocean as a way to mitigate global warming, as we mentioned earlier. Again, CNN actually reported the iron theory being carried out. These are not just “theories”.

Not only do the governmental studies support this sunscreen theory but there are also actual patents that have been issued for devices to carry these operations out. One important patent is the 1994 Welsbach patent issued to the Hughes Aircraft Co. It is for atmospheric spraying with aluminum oxide to reduce global warming by “seeding” and reflecting 1% of incoming sunrays. It so happens that aluminum consistently turns up in chemtrail related lab test results.

Another patent worth mentioning is the 1975 US Navy patent which is for a “contrail generation apparatus for producing powder contrails. In the summary section it clearly states “the term 'contrail' was adopted for convenience in identifying the visible powder trail". It appears they are still using the word “contrail” for convenience. The people carrying out these types of operations will never use the word “chemtrails”. They use terms such as aerial obscuration, persistent contrails, or sky soot.

But Dennis Kucinich did use the word “chemtrails” in the Space Preservation Act of 2001 in which he tried to ban chemtrails and other space-based weapons. He wrote the bill, also called H.R. 2977, while he was the head of the U.S. Arms Oversight Committee. The bill calls for a ban on space-based weapons and a ban on the types of operations that we’re seeing happen now. In section 7 of the bill, “chemtrails” is considered an exotic weapon.

Space-based weaponry is another likely reason that these operations are occurring. As is stated in the Air Force study Owning the Weather in 2025, it is a major advantage to modify the weather and cause rain or drought for the enemy. They also find that the spraying of certain chemicals in the skies assist to jam radar and tele-communications systems. They go on to say that these activities could have tremendous potential in times of military aggression and are proud of the fact that these tactics could also have enormous psychological potential, which would be just as beneficial as causing drought or constant rain. The study even goes on to say that “one major advantage of using simulated weather to achieve a desired effect is that unlike other approaches, it makes what are otherwise the results of deliberate actions appear to be the consequences of natural weather phenomena”.

These operations are also advantageous to the HAARP, which stands for ‘High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program’. HAARP is a highly funded research project in Alaska focusing on altering and manipulating the atmosphere for weather and military dominance.

The US has a long history of spraying chemicals on innocent people in this country. The Freedom of Information Act has allowed us to access information about these experiments, including the spraying of biological agents over San Francisco in 1950 to see who got sick. This is just one example of many. Just recently in 2001, Captain Reily stood against the military’s open air germ testing. There are many more examples in the history of aerial spray operations that you can read about on the website Chemtrails911.com.

In 1997 and again in 2000, U.S. Title 50, Section 32 was actually revised to allow for exceptions in conducting experiments on unwitting citizens.

Unfortunately, the goals of this activity aren’t known with absolute certainty because when high level officials are asked about these spray operations, they answer that what we are seeing is just “normal”. When concerned pilots and Air Force personnel ask their superiors questions relating to these operations, their concerns are met with replies like “this information is on a need-to-know basis” or they are given special misinformation to make them think they are doing this for the good of the people. They are also told that speaking out on this issue will violate national security and that they will be held accountable.

These operations cause us to have great concerns. We do not like being part of a secret spray operation without our consent. We are very worried about the health implications of spraying chemicals that are on the OSHA hazardous list. And the fine talcum powder-sized particles they call for to be sprayed are very harmful to our health according to the American Medical Association.

If this is truly being done to mitigate global warming, as research indicates, then don’t be fooled into thinking that this is for our own good. This is not for our own good! We are breathing this in and unexplained illnesses are occurring. Yes, global warming is an issue, but we should not jeopardize our health and freedom to avoid having to regulate fossil-fired energy use and production or exploring alternative fuel technologies. A ‘sunscreen’ solution only masks the real problem and isn’t a solution at all. The massive health problems and risks involved largely outweigh any possible benefits. These spray operations need to be stopped immediately, no matter what the purpose for it may be.


So are chemtrails some sort of conspiracy or can someone provide me with a reasonable answer as I havent been able to find any on google that the articles above dont de-bunk.

This is the best evidence against it ive found so far, but it doesnt explain why some planes leave these trails and others dont. Its really doing my head in now cause I cant find any solid info on this.

They're called contrails, and no, there's no conspiracy involved. Basically, it's the same phenomenon as when you breathe out on a hot day. The water in hot, humid air condenses when it hits the cold air that can't hold as much water. Where does the water come from?

When you burn methane, the reaction is
CH4 + 4O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O
The basic idea holds for any hydrocarbon, including jet fuel: hydrocarbon plus oxygen becomes carbon dioxide plus water.
 
I really wanna know whats going on. Now im not one to buy into all these conspiracy theories, but why is it that some planes leave these trails,a nd others dont when being in the exact same conditions?
Because they aren't in identical conditions. The principle of contrails is a simple one. It's the exact same thing that happens when you can see your breath on a cold day. But, can you always see your breath when the temperature is below a certain value? No. I've seen my breath in conditions as warm as 55 degrees F (quite bizzare), and just last year, it was 25 F and I didn't see my breath. The relative humidity on these two days was very different, and that is what dictates whether or not you can see your breath at any given temperature.

Now the planes: Commercial jets fly anywhere from 15,000-40,000 feet up in the air. Do you think our atmospheric conditions are constant across that height differential? Absolutely not. At one altitude, the humidity might be relatively low, and higher up, it might be much higher. This can be the difference between one jet showing contrails and another not. (If you can ever see two jets in the sky at once, you can be pretty sure they're not flying at the same altitude.)

Furthermore, and this is a bit counterintuitive, there is often a temperature inversion in the atmosphere. That is, the air temperature decreases with altitude, and then at a certain height, the temperature starts to increase with altitude. It's not uncommon, and can be the difference between contrail or no contrail.

Now, weather changes. One jet might fly by at 1:30 in the afternoon and show no contrail. Another jet might fly on the exact same path three hours later and leave a contrail. In this case, that exact patch of air has changed. Air moves, along with the water vapor contained in it. At 1:30, this air might have been -10F with a relative humidity of 50%. Three hours later, this air has blown off to the east, and the air that replaced it is -30F, 95% RH. Different conditions altogether.

Contrails linger in the air for a while because they are.....drumroll....CLOUDS!!! Ever see a cloud just up and disappear? Okay, they do, but it's a very slow process of droplet dispersion and evaporation, which often takes hours. If you're in a major flightpath or approach route, you'll get many planes leaving contrails in the same area over time, leaving criss-cross patterns and whatnot.

People like to come up with "chem trails" because they are idiots. They don't bother to learn anything about the world, and they go through life coming up with scientifically-challenged ideas and conspiracies.

Edit: Here's a radiosonde sounding from this afternoon:
radiosonde.gif

You can see two dark, black lines. The one on the right is the air temperature, and the one on the left is the dewpoint (the temperature is listed on the bottom, in degrees C). The closer these two lines are to each other, the higher the relative humidity, and the more likely it is for contrails to form at that altitude. You can see that at 1,500 m (5,000 ft), the relative humidity is rather high (the lines are relatively close together). But, at 2,000 m (6,500 ft), the lines are pretty far apart, which means that the relative humidity at that altitude is low. It's pretty easy to see that in this case, a small change in altitude yields very different conditions. And this is on a calm summer day. These temperature profiles can get very bizzare when the weather is in transition.
 
One thing that escapes the notice of the many people is the composition of the exhaust stream. Jet fuel is a hydrocarbon, meaning a molecule built on hydrogen and carbon, among other things. Bits of nitrogen, etc. Burning it breaks the molecule down and the carbon joins the oxygen into carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. The hydrogen joins the oxygen and makes dihydrogen monoxide or hydrogen hydroxide, depending on your nomenclature preference. :) I've also seen the compound called hydric acid. This hydrogen/oxygen compound is the major component of the visible streamers behind the engines of high-altitude planes in the right conditions, as it cools and condenses in the cold, rarified air up there, forming liquid droplets and then solid icy crystals. It usually evaporates into an invisible vapor, but it can eventually condense into heavy enough clouds to fall all the way to the surface, even to the point of forming open pools of liquid! I think this possibility is what fuels the fears of chem-trail theorists.

That and a certain amount of ignorance.

For those that haven't caught on, dihydrogen monoxide and hydrogen hydroxide are "clever" chemical names for the molecule of 2 hydrogen atoms bonded to a single oxygen atom, one of the most common substances on the planet, without which life could not exist: plain ol' water. The contrail visible behind a plane's engines is simply the water vapor condensing out of the exhaust as it drops several hundred degrees in temperature in a very small amount of time. It is the same effect as seeing your breath on a cold muggy day.

The first picture in the original post is not a contrail, it looks like a fuel dump in preparation for descent and landing. If an aircraft uses less fuel than anticipated on a trip, perhaps due to tailwinds, it may be overweight and have to dump fuel to come down to a safe weight for landing. Anyway, contrails form in the exhaust stream, and it doesn't have to be a jet that forms it. Piston exhaust contains water, too, and a high-altitude piston-engine plane, such as a WWII heavy bomber, would form contrails just as readily.

Depending on conditions (temperature, humidity, pressure, all the standard weather-type crap) a contrail might dissipate almost immediately, might never form at all, or might last for hours, spread by the wind.
 
This is one of the funniest theories I've seen in quite a while.

Even funnier when you consider that even aircraft run by cut-rate airliners in the third world leave the same contrails. I've seen contrails last for hours, too... :lol: Seems like every pilot in the world is in on it. :)
 
yeah, seems like the US and the chinese work well together on that issue. ;)

anyway, that first picture is terribly fake. i frequent airliners.net a bit and there are tons of contrail pictures (usually of higher detail) that show that the contrails come either from the engines or sometimes at extreme humidity smaller ones form either at certain places like the wingtips or from the whole aircraft even:
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(in this case, there isn't really a contrail because the aircraft is moving slow and at a relatively high temperature at a low altitude, but at speed the effect can't be localized as good as in this case)

it does not even look like fuel dump in progress because fuel is usually dumped from nozzles at the rear edge of the wings like here:
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things get even funnier at the sound barrier...guess that could go as a "cloaking device:"
0252881.jpg

or maybe the plane just came from a different universe through a magic portal
 
This'll get the conspiracy nuts going... The correct term for this:

0252881.jpg


is a "Prandtl-Glauert Singularity"... :D
 
This'll get the conspiracy nuts going... The correct term for this:

0252881.jpg


is a "Prandtl-Glauert Singularity"... :D


no famine the correct term for this is " Looney Tunes " ..:crazy:
 
That's a ballet plane. Its wearing a tutu.

EDIT: Not Archbishop Desmond. That would be silly.
 
I really wanna know whats going on. Now im not one to buy into all these conspiracy theories, but why is it that some planes leave these trails,a nd others dont when being in the exact same conditions?

<article>

So are chemtrails some sort of conspiracy or can someone provide me with a reasonable answer as I havent been able to find any on google that the articles above dont de-bunk.

This is the best evidence against it ive found so far, but it doesnt explain why some planes leave these trails and others dont. Its really doing my head in now cause I cant find any solid info on this.

They're called contrails, and no, there's no conspiracy involved. Basically, it's the same phenomenon as when you breathe out on a hot day. The water in hot, humid air condenses when it hits the cold air that can't hold as much water. Where does the water come from?

When you burn methane, the reaction is
CH4 + 4O2 -> CO2 + 2H2O
The basic idea holds for any hydrocarbon, including jet fuel: hydrocarbon plus oxygen becomes carbon dioxide plus water.
It sounds like someone has been listening to Coast to Coast a bit too much.

Or maybe you found a William Thomas book? Looking at his Web site, the top article is about how chemtrails, airline traffic, and shuttle launches are destroying the stratosphere. Wow he even has a 30 minute documentary on "chemtrails." Of course, this is also a guy that believes in weather manipulation.

I'm just pointing out that "chemtrails" are just another crazy idea from the conspiracy theorists that like to sell books full of crap. I mean, Coast to Coast has even had "experts" on that continually claim Planet X will attack Earth, but once the date they give passes they have some story about how a policy change by the US spared us all. :rolleyes:
 
Anyway, if they really were chemtrails, do you not think they would make them invisible, rather than huge great big white things standing out like a beacon in the sky? And why do they stay up at altitude? Who or what are they drugging up there? Are they drugging albatrosses?
 
Oh. Dear. Bob. People will believe anything, won't they?
 
Actually, it's a secret ploy. Coppertone is paying airliners to create holes in (and eventually destroy) the ozone layer, thus ensuring a monoploy when they release their experimental SPF 9000 sunblock.

On a unrelated topic, I'm out of tinfoil.
 
I picked this up from another forum where a guy is trying to shove his conspiracy theories down our throat, and I just wanted some info to rebuke all his copy and pasting. The main reason why I posted this here though was because I was extremly curious as to why some planes left trails and others didnt, in what I incorrectly assumed were identical conditions.
 
This is a chemtrail ;)
wildfires_1_082606.jpg


It's a government conspiracy....:scared:....to put out our forest fires.
 
On a unrelated topic, I'm out of tinfoil.
Uh-oh. You're screwed now.

I picked this up from another forum where a guy is trying to shove his conspiracy theories down our throat, and I just wanted some info to rebuke all his copy and pasting. The main reason why I posted this here though was because I was extremly curious as to why some planes left trails and others didnt, in what I incorrectly assumed were identical conditions.
It's good to hear as I figured you not to be the type to easily buy into this kind of conspiracy theory, but I have seen intelligent people sounding completely lucid one day and the next thing I know they have some conspiracy theory that suddenly makes sense to them.

A guy I work with was a die-hard Republican a few years ago and then about three months ago he started telling me about the Loose Change Conspiracy. After that kind of conversion I just never assume people are too intelligent or opinionated to buy into something off the wall, even if it goes against everything they believe.

Hopefully seeing the Web site of the guy that kind of started and pushes this whole chemtrail theory you can understand that he is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
 
Hopefully seeing the Web site of the guy that kind of started and pushes this whole chemtrail theory you can understand that he is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
I honestly can't see why people start retarded conspiracy theories like this. What is there to gain? So what if you can convince people to become as paranoid as you? What's the next step? Are you all going to march on Washington and demand that the government stop poisoning birds? I just don't see the point of making stuff like this up. They might do it to appear intelligent, but the cruel irony is that they end up looking incredibly stupid. I could have debunked the "chemtrails" theory when I was 12. If you can't fool a pre-teen, then your conspiracy theory needs work. AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!!!!! I hate conspiracists.

[/rant]
 
I honestly can't see why people start retarded conspiracy theories like this. What is there to gain?
Well, he gets radio interviews on conspiracy talk shows AND (I think this is the key point) he sells books.

This is his job and he is living comfortably off of the people who are too paranoid to trust their own society but stable enough to hold a job and earn money.

He is a leech, a parasite, whatever, but his gain is monetary. Hell, I could go and study for a doctorate in paranormal psychology and then write books about every crazy theory out there for the rest of my life. No one can question you because there is not enough information to prove anything and you can defend that by pointing at all the "cover-ups." It is the biggest and easiest scam there is. Since your peers either believe the conspiracies or are doing the same thing you are none of them will try to stop you or prove you wrong and any actual scientists that attempt to prove you wrong can be shot down with the fact that they haven't studied the field and have become close-minded. It is a weak argument but enough to convince the paranoid to no longer trust him.

I know how it works because I pulled this in a psychology class in high school. I wrote a paper on alien abductions with information from paranormal psychologists that I got by mailing them and then justified it as a serious paper by devoting my last third of the paper to what psychological phenomenon could cause "victims" and "witnesses" to actually believe this has happened to them when it didn't. I got an A on that paper.
 
Yes I did. There are other videos filmed from the ground, showing that these "trails" suddenly can stop and then be activated again, only a few seconds later, I would really like to hear the explanation for that from people, who claim these trails are simply altered air through the speed of the airplane or similar things, so they would speculate that in one specific spot the atmosphere allows such phenomena, but only 500 meters further not? That is just silly and again, I would like to hear a reasonable explenation.

Also, there are numeorus photos, where you see airplanes not too far away from each other at the same altitude and while the one is leaving a normal contrail of a few hundred meters length, the other one leaves a trail, which goes from one side of the horizon to the other.

I posted these videos and my opinion to give others the chance to look further innto that subject, everyone is responsible for his life and choices himself, if you choose to deny the evidence is presented in many reports, serieses, then that is your choice, it's simple as that.

Even if I'm young (22), I can remember very well, that even 7-10 years ago, there were NEVER so much of these long trails in the air as now and just look at the grids, which are being flowen into the air, very often when one of the spraying sections begin. Is that, that commercial fly routes resemble perfect grids?...

Besides, these trails and grids are concentrated over highly-populated areas, such as cities, but rarely or never seen over "land".

Make of that what you want, again, your choice.
 
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Yes I did. There are other videos filmed from the ground, showing that these "trails" suddenly can stop and then be activated again, only a few seconds later, I would really like to hear the explanation for that from people, who claim these trails are simply altered air through the speed of the airplane or similar things, so they would speculate that in one specific spot the atmosphere allows such phenomena, but only 500 meters further not? That is just silly and again, I would like to hear a reasonable explenation.

Also, there are numeorus photos, where you see airplanes not too far away from each other at the same altitude and while the one is leaving a normal contrail of a few hundred meters length, the other one leaves a trail, which goes from one side of the horizon to the other.

I posted these videos and my opinion to give others the chance to look further innto that subject, everyone is responsible for his life and choices himself, if you choose to deny the evidence is presented in many reports, serieses, then that is your choice, it's simple as that.

Even if I'm young (22), I can remember very well, that even 7-10 years ago, there were NEVER so much of these long trails in the air as now and just look at the girds, which are being flowen into the air, very often when one of the spraying sections begin, is that that commercial fly routes resemble perfect grids?...

I'm not questioning chemtrails as a whole, but that video. They showed that there were shadows being casted onto a greenscreen with clouds on it. It said in the annotations.

P.S You're not that young. I'm 13.
 
Besides, these trails and grids are concentrated over highly-populated areas, such as cities, but rarely or never seen over "land".

Where there isn't as high population density and thus significantly less chance of being reported.

Then again, I'm just a puppet of the state, though I do wish David Cameron would take his hand out of my ass.
 
I didn't read Poverty's entire article, but from what I previously knew, chemtrails are composed of silver iodine. I always thought they made chemtrails purposely to see if they could get it to rain were and when they wanted it to, and it seemed to work, at least were I lived. So I never really thought much of them.
 
I didn't read Poverty's entire article, but from what I previously knew, chemtrails are composed of silver iodine. I always thought they made chemtrails purposely to see if they could get it to rain were and when they wanted it to, and it seemed to work, at least were I lived. So I never really thought much of them.

The most sprayed compounts are Aluminium, Barium and Strontium. When you ask them why they do that, they will tell you it's not happening or that it is part of a geo-engeneering program, so that the particles, they are spraying, reflect the suns light, to decrease global warming. :lol:
So of course it is for the greater good of humanity. Problem is, sun is vital to human health and obviously plant life and infact these trails do block a significant part of the sun's shine.
Apart from that, Aluminium is toxic and destroys soil to grow plants on, there are profiteers, if you want to understand, just watch the link on the previous page I posted, which shows a series.

Where there isn't as high population density and thus significantly less chance of being reported.

Then again, I'm just a puppet of the state, though I do wish David Cameron would take his hand out of my ass.

You will regret this post and you will be ashamed of yourself, I can promise you that.
 
Enlighten me. (You know, seeing as the Sun can't 'cos all the chemtrails are blocking photons from allowing me to live healthily.)
 
Compressing air thick with moisture with a wing will create exactly what you are looking at in the video above.

Do you think for a minute that those guys videoing the tanker would be able to get back on the ground safely
if it was really up there doing something questionable let alone nefarious?

The guy flying the refuel probe would alert the pilots who would call in for air cover
and the video would have never made it to the web...
...unless those guys filming were in a super stealth flying saucer of their own.

If he was dumping anything it would be fuel due to an emergency but that plane is not dumping.
 
Enlighten me. (You know, seeing as the Sun can't 'cos all the chemtrails are blocking photons from allowing me to live healthily.)

Watch the link I posted on the previous page, inform yourself, I gave you the impuls to do it, I have no obligation whatsoever to prove you anything, or "enlighten" you, I am sorry but you have to do it yourself. If you see that now as an excuse from me not to "prove" to you anything because I can not prove anything, then this is it, I don't care, just ask yourself what motivation I would have to post the link and to encourage you to do it yourelf.

IF you should seriosly look at this topic, I would have to warn you that there is a HUGE amount of disinfo, from highly intelligent and educated people, even from greenpeace, so don't be fooled by their cunning intellect. And maybe, from time to time, look at the sky. (The trails are not everyday there as far as I know(also from my expecience), but very very often)

Compressing air thick with moisture with a wing will create exactly what you are looking at in the video above.

Do you think for a minute that those guys videoing the tanker would be able to get back on the ground safely
if it was really up there doing something questionable let alone nefarious?

The guy flying the refuel probe would alert the pilots who would call in for air cover
and the video would have never made it to the web...
...unless those guys filming were in a super stealth flying saucer of their own.

If he was dumping anything it would be fuel due to an emergency but that plane is not dumping.

I chose this video because I wanted to show that there is "spraying", that some sort of spraying is happening and possible, that is all, I will try to find a better one.

EDIT: That one is very good:


That one is even better: (Just look from 7:50-8:00)

 
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