Chemtrails or Contrails?

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If they spray mostly at night though, shouldn't there be significantly less during the day at this point? You would think that we would see far less of the grid patterns during daylight hours.

Yes.

I assumed you were throwing a blanket accusation at everyone "who has posted in here" and sought to defend myself. I apologize for my poor reading comprehension. I will not bother you any more.

I actually don't know why you are offended. He said that nobody (and that includes you) knows for sure wether "chemtrails" are real or not. What is not true about that? Or do you have proof they're not real?

No hard feelings...
 
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I, for one, know that the vapor trails behind aircraft are not life-altering chemicals being intentionally sprayed into the atmosphere. I know some of the chemistry that occurs in the combustion of fuel, I know some of the products of that chemistry, and I know a little bit about the behavior of water vapor in thin, cold air, especially after an abrupt and highly localized pressure and temperature change.

But I repeat my question from a few posts ago. Why in the world would somebody so desperate to spread these mysterious "chemicals" use something that only has a few thousand units in use at any given moment? I mean, if you want to distribute chemicals, put them in something everybody needs and uses, like water and food supplies, fuel (you'd find as many cars and trucks in a few miles of urban freeway as you'd find aircraft aloft in the entire country!) or even our cars themselves. What exactly is that new car smell, anyway???? Hmm?? :sly:
 
I actually don't know why you are offended. He said that nobody (and that includes you) knows for sure wether "chemtrails" are real or not. What is not true about that? Or do you have proof they're not real?

A rational mind and a basic knowledge of science? Plus maybe understanding logistics and other options.
 
Alex p., I appreciate you ignoring my post after I showed you that I know where to get upper-atmosphere weather information and how to interpret it.

DOUQA, the reason most people in here are discounting the idea of chemical spraying is because there is absolutely no evidence to support it, though the phenomenon of contrails is a very basic and well understood part of meteorology.
 
What gets to me about conspiracies is that despite all the leaks from UK and US military records (WikiLeaks?) not one has ever proven a far-flung conspiracy to be true.
 
Why in the world would somebody so desperate to spread these mysterious "chemicals" use something that only has a few thousand units in use at any given moment? I mean, if you want to distribute chemicals, put them in something everybody needs and uses, like water and food supplies, fuel (you'd find as many cars and trucks in a few miles of urban freeway as you'd find aircraft aloft in the entire country!) or even our cars themselves. What exactly is that new car smell, anyway???? Hmm?? :sly:

Depends if you believe the conspiracy is climate control fall out or population control I guess.

Is this not the mother of all chemtrail generators?

chemtrail-inners3a.jpg


No wait a sec, I think it's just a test plain with ballast/weight distribution system :lol:
 
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In other news:

Snow on Kilimanjaro is proof that Global Warming is a communist plot.

Whoops... spoke before I even googled...

http://www.freewilliamsburg.com/sno...ct-is-still-communist-conspiracy-mumbo-jumbo/

:lol:

-

Anyone who's ever flown in a modern plane or who knows anything about the intricacies and complexity of differing governmental aviation administrations, aviation companies, carriers and schools would know the chemtrail conspiracy is a load of baloney.

To get all those different companies to "spray" would be a logistical nightmare even bigger than getting hundreds of undercover people to plant plastic explosives on the inside of the World Trade Center over a period of a year and ten thousand people to ignore their existence and the movements of strange people inside the building within the same time period.

-----

Yes, we have an aviation school. We're part of the conspiracy. We accept twenty drums of odorless, colorless, undetectable chemicals every day. They go into specially designed wingtip tanks that are standard on every single jet-powered aircraft on sale today. :lol:

Also, please ignore the white smoke coming out of your tailpipe on cold mornings... that's from the hidden tank installed in your spare tire...
 
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What gets to me about conspiracies is that despite all the leaks from UK and US military records (WikiLeaks?) not one has ever proven a far-flung conspiracy to be true.

Remember the HUGE international "polictical" uproar when Assange announced major leakings?

Furthermore, remember what happened to him?
 
And?

Do you realize how many thousands upon thousands of different people would be required in the logistics portion of this exercise?

Do you know how hard it is to keep that many people quiet?

If military people can't keep mum about Guantanamo, what chance is there to keep civilian mechanics mum about strange chemicals loaded on board commercial (and private) aircraft? Considering the many hundreds upon thousands of man-hours of maintenance that is performed upon these?
 
I'm curious Alex p. What is it you think is going on exactly? I have a few friends who buy into this and claim it's preparation for large scale population killings, something to do with the flu iirc.

My favorite claim of further proof among many other things, "The elite want to close and restore all the u.s. forests to a pristine state so they can have a vacation there, why do you think they are re introducing the wolf to the wild?" I guess if you kill all the hunters you need natural hunters to keep the circle of life in proper order?

Just curious.
 
My favorite claim of further proof among many other things, "The elite want to close and restore all the u.s. forests to a pristine state so they can have a vacation there, why do you think they are re introducing the wolf to the wild?" I guess if you kill all the hunters you need natural hunters to keep the circle of life in proper order?

Been reading too much Tom Clancy...

That was the plot of Rainbow Six. After a few days of reading crackerjack action and intense battle scenes, I was more than a bit pissed off that the villains' plans were something right out of a 1970's pulp Destroyer novel.
 
As an FAA certified Airframe & Powerplant mechanic, I can say for a fact that the Embraer ERJ-145 regional jets I maintain do NOT have any strange tanks for chemicals. That would not only add weight, but it would also sacrifice range and payload of an aircraft. And given the simplicity of most civil aircraft, hiding anything like that would be next to impossible.

Now, trying to add something to the fuel itself would also be next to impossible, since that has a chance of damaging the engines or being corrosive. That and when fuel is burned, it is burned in a combustion chamber at temperatures of around 3000F. I can't imagine most chemical compounds suviving that. Anyway most fuel supplies are sampled quite often, so I'd imagine someone would have discoverd this mysterious chemical chemtrail belivers think is in fuel.

It seems chemtrail proponents generally know nothing about how aircraft operate.
 
Damn commies spraying aerosol-ized mercury into the troposphere to corrode Freedom-Loving Democratic Private-Venture Airlines to pieces...
 
As an FAA certified Airframe & Powerplant mechanic, I can say for a fact that the Embraer ERJ-145 regional jets I maintain do NOT have any strange tanks for chemicals. That would not only add weight, but it would also sacrifice range and payload of an aircraft. And given the simplicity of most civil aircraft, hiding anything like that would be next to impossible.

Now, trying to add something to the fuel itself would also be next to impossible, since that has a chance of damaging the engines or being corrosive. That and when fuel is burned, it is burned in a combustion chamber at temperatures of around 3000F. I can't imagine most chemical compounds suviving that. Anyway most fuel supplies are sampled quite often, so I'd imagine someone would have discoverd this mysterious chemical chemtrail belivers think is in fuel.

It seems chemtrail proponents generally know nothing about how aircraft operate.

I also imagine this to be very difficult to hide and all, I agree.

There was one story on the net of a supposed former I guess also mechanic?. He told there are three "degrees" of mechanics, he was "in the upper degree" but one day he had to do the "lowest" job, namely emptying the excrements. While doing that he noticed a for him unknown pipe in the body of the airplane, the next day he followed it through the body of the airplane and it let him to barrels he didn't know what they were there for.
He asked his boss what it was and was promtly shut up and threatened not to snoop around or talk about it or he would get fired.

After that he started researching on the net what it could be and there he made his conclusion.

But well yeah, it's a story, on the internet, so it could be made up of course.
 
I also imagine this to be very difficult to hide and all, I agree.

There was one story on the net of a supposed former I guess also mechanic?. He told there are three "degrees" of mechanics, he was "in the upper degree" but one day he had to do the "lowest" job, namely emptying the excrements. While doing that he noticed a for him unknown pipe in the body of the airplane, the next day he followed it through the body of the airplane and it let him to barrels he didn't know what they were there for.
He asked his boss what it was and was promtly shut up and threatened not to snoop around or talk about it or he would get fired.

After that he started researching on the net what it could be and there he made his conclusion.
Source please.


But well yeah, it's a story, on the internet, so it could be made up of course.
I think its very, very likely its made up.



Scaff
 
Yeah I'm going to call it a fake as I'm guessing a "top level" mechanic would routinely check every part of the plane and would have noticed it before emptying the crapper after however long a period has passed. Than again he could just be a very bad mechanic.
 
I assumed you were throwing a blanket accusation at everyone "who has posted in here" and sought to defend myself. I apologize for my poor reading comprehension. I will not bother you any more.

And your assumption was correct, it was a blanket accusation at everyone who has posted in here. As Alex P promptly pointed out, you dont know one way or the other.

My problem was with people who immediately discount it as nonsense and brand believers, or even those who entertain it as a possibility, as idiots. Im sure I made that clear in my post.

I didnt say there was anything wrong with asking for proof or saying you dont believe it.

I agree that its a pretty far fetched idea but that doesnt mean that it cant be true.

@KEEF, Just because there is no proof of something is no reason to discount it. If scientists did that then where would we be today? Certainly not having this discussion thats for sure.

I'll discount it when its PROVED that no such thing is happening.
 
I'll discount it when its PROVED that no such thing is happening.

Sorry but it doesn't work that way. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, as you can't prove the non-existence of something....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

....however proving the existence of something is a much different matter.

Proving that this was not happening would require the independent examination of every aircraft on the face of the planet at the exact same time. A totally insane burden of proof and one that would be almost impossible to achieve (how handy).

Proving that it is happening however would require a single aircraft found to be fitted to spray a chemical that is tested and found to cause harm. Now that must be achievable given that this is claimed to be so widespread and occurring using commercial aircraft.


Oh! You did? You idiot!! :)

Perhaps I should have read a little more slowly. Unless you are very much in the know you cant be sure though, can you?

Wow! Aren't you smart!!
Try reading my post before you quote it and respond.


And watch the attitude when you post, you've twice insulted a member now and I don't care if you mean it in jest or not, its not acceptable conduct for GT Planet.


Scaff
 
And watch the attitude when you post, you've twice insulted a member now and I don't care if you mean it in jest or not, its not acceptable conduct for GT Planet.Scaff

Well, he definatly didn't try to insult me. IT WAS MORE THAN OBVIOUS he was joking regarding me. So stop being a hypocrit please and threatening members, who don't agree on your opinion on certain topics.
Would be better to threaten others in this thread here, WHO OBVIOSLY DID INSULT ME, but what am I expecting here? Fairness? Ha.

Source please.

Scaff


http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Chemtrails/Witness_1.html


As an FAA certified Airframe & Powerplant mechanic, I can say for a fact that the Embraer ERJ-145 regional jets I maintain do NOT have any strange tanks for chemicals. That would not only add weight, but it would also sacrifice range and payload of an aircraft. And given the simplicity of most civil aircraft, hiding anything like that would be next to impossible.

Now, trying to add something to the fuel itself would also be next to impossible, since that has a chance of damaging the engines or being corrosive. That and when fuel is burned, it is burned in a combustion chamber at temperatures of around 3000F. I can't imagine most chemical compounds suviving that. Anyway most fuel supplies are sampled quite often, so I'd imagine someone would have discoverd this mysterious chemical chemtrail belivers think is in fuel.

It seems chemtrail proponents generally know nothing about how aircraft operate.

I really would appreciate it if you could read through this alleged insider mechanic report on "chemtrail-planes". As you are the one here most capable now to judge on his story's credibility. Really looking forward to your judgement on this. 👍

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Chemtrails/Witness_1.html

I'm curious Alex p. What is it you think is going on exactly? I have a few friends who buy into this and claim it's preparation for large scale population killings, something to do with the flu iirc.

My favorite claim of further proof among many other things, "The elite want to close and restore all the u.s. forests to a pristine state so they can have a vacation there, why do you think they are re introducing the wolf to the wild?" I guess if you kill all the hunters you need natural hunters to keep the circle of life in proper order?

Just curious.

Oh man to really answer this question well, I could write pages. But I'll make it short. Yes, there are many many rumours that people "behind the curtain", of which we have been warnded btw. by John F. Kennedy, are pulling the strings to inflict as much harm to the human population as possible, in order to reduce the world's population to a minimum of 500 Million (reduction of about 90%). The "Virginia Guidstones" are their supposed inspiration for this.

How do they achieve this:
1.Chemtrails: Debatable lol.
2.Far too heavy fluaridation of tooth paste and drinking water, even bottled water out of the market.
3.Using not healthy genetically modified food.
4.Creating worldwide tensions and staging of false flag attacks, in order to start wars. (Reason for Vietnam's war was a false flag operation, that has been proven.)
5.Putting very unhealthy chemicals into pretty much everything you can buy in a normal supermarket to eat.
Now of course the "rational people" on this board here will say: "Stupid conspiracy theory, every food producing company had to have the same goal."
Well, I say no. They put this stuff in there, as it is not prohibited in the first place and makes their food they sell us cheaper. As long as it is not directly leathal to you, they will put anything in there, in order to make more profit.
Why is it that such things are not prohibited?: Well, because many "members" of the FDA are former CEO's of major chemical and food companies. They create the laws, for the companies, it is that simple. Not for your health, but for their pocket, money rules the mind of the people, let's face it.
 
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Well, he definatly didn't try to insult me. IT WAS MORE THAN OBVIOUS he was joking regarding me. So stop being a hypocrit please and threatening members, who don't agree on your opinion on certain topics.
Would be better to threaten others in this thread here, but what am I expecting here? Fairness? Ha.

First things first I would strongly suggest that you calm down and do so right now.

One of the cornerstones of debate is that you attack the point being made and not the person making it, and we hold to that as a core part of our AUP here at GT Planet.

I care not what side of a debate someone is on, I care that they follow the AUP. Had anyone in this thread or any other thread spoke to another member in that manner (in jest or not as I clearly stated) then they would have received the exact same message. If you feel a member has broken the AUP then use the report button and it will be looked at and action (if required taken), but do not shout at the staff for simply doing our job.

I also did not threaten anyone at all, I pointed out (as is part of my role here at GT Planet) that we expect the AUP that all members agree to when they join to be followed.


Scaff
 
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He went into great detail over what happened, but used barely any detail in describing the plane.

Also, I don't know how you'd get any significant amount of spraying done with such tiny nozzles. His claim doesn't match up with the tons of "evidence" videos that show the trails coming from the engines only.

You can really judge that? I know I don't...
 
Oh man to really answer this question well, I could write pages. But I'll make it short. Yes, there are many many rumours that people "behind the curtain", of which we have been warnded btw. by John F. Kennedy, are pulling the strings to inflict as much harm to the human population as possible, in order to reduce the world's population to a minimum of 500 Million (reduction of about 90%). The "Virginia Guidstones" are their supposed inspiration for this.

Thank you for the reply, it takes some stones to post that here. 👍 While I disagree, am glad you gave me some things to look up.


This sounds very hoax-ish to me. Wanting something to be true so bad one makes stuff up to strengthen their case actually weakens it.
 
The wicks are composed of hundreds of individual carbon fibers wrapped into a cylinder around three to eight inches (7.6 to 20.3 cm) long and about the diameter of a soda straw.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/design/q0234.shtml

They're not very big. If you have 100 of them with a 20 mm diameter, then to get 100 lbs of air through the system per second, you'd need to have an exhaust speed of 2500 mph, which is around Mach 4. That's not happening.

In reality, it would take even higher speeds and pressures since the air at cruise altitude is much thinner (contrails "float", so the density can't be much different from air).

They're also all over the plane, so it really doesn't make sense that the trails only seem to come from the engines if they're being sprayed from everywhere.


EDIT

I picked out 100 lb/second because if you wanted to spray something into the air, and make it have an effect, you'd probably need a lot. 100 lb/s is around the order of magnitude of fuel use for a fighter. To be more specific, it's for a fighter at low altitude using full mil power or afterburn.
 
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If throwing science at them would work, the thread would have ended somewhere around post 2.
 
I think the dude that came up with this chemtrails and contrails had to many cocktails !

'Nuff said: The real conspiracy is...why wasn't this locked years ago?
 
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