Chemtrails or Contrails?

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

Chemtrails would make NO sense, because if they are 'spraying chemicals" up there, there is literally no way to tell where they are going to land, moot point.
Wind conditions change, jet streams change, How would they know where these chemicals are going to land?


Or do they just spray and pray?

Hahaha, get it spray and pray.

 

[DK]

^ Possibly because the sprayed chemicals would be denser than air, and would therefore fall eventually.

 

[Keef]

I was somewhat skeptical about the whole idea of chemtrails until recently. It started a few weeks ago when a plane at a relativity low altitude (About 12000ft) came across the the sky directly above my neighborhood leaving a long trail behind it. About a half hour later, a very strong sulfury smell engulfed my area. This had never happened before as far as I know (Then again I've never seen a plane with a trail fly that low before as well). Now although the two events may not be related, it seemed very odd to me that they happened at the times in which they did.

Then, only a few days ago, I was out on the lake in the evening, and took this picture.

Although this is only half the event, the plane spewing the trails nearly made a complete U-turn, something commercial jets never do here. This only made me more suspicious regarding what they were doing up there.

There are too many reasons to list why a commercial flight might reverse course. Perhaps the airport they were headed to was under some bad weather and they had to divert.

 

[Sam48]

Chemtrails would make NO sense, because if they are 'spraying chemicals" up there, there is literally no way to tell where they are going to land, moot point.

Presumably, they don't care where it lands. Like DK said, it may be denser than air. They would probably only care about how it effects the weather. The fact that the chemicals landed is just the after effect.

There are too many reasons to list why a commercial flight might reverse course. Perhaps the airport they were headed to was under some bad weather and they had to divert.

Yes, but it came back. In other words, every streak you see in that picture (Most/All of which have basically stretched out) was from the same plane going back and forth over itself. I just wanted to catch it turning around just to make sure I wasn't mistaken.

Also, keep in mind that I'm still quite skeptical. I'm just somewhat intrigued now.

 

[Alex p.]

Presumably, they don't care where it lands. Like DK said, it may be denser than air. They would probably only care about how it effects the weather. The fact that the chemicals landed is just the after effect.



Yes, but it came back. In other words, every streak you see in that picture (Most/All of which have basically stretched out) was from the same plane going back and forth over itself. I just wanted to catch it turning around just to make sure I wasn't mistaken.

Also, keep in mind that I'm still quite skeptical. I'm just somewhat intrigued now.

I heared from 2004/2005 they have started to spray mostly at night in order to not to catch too much attention.

Just yesterday I was driving with my bicycle at night home from work, we had clear sky. During daytime there were no trails to be seen, but at night there were HUUUGE ones next to eachother, building grids, glowing in the moon light.

Oh and yep I did a "servey" on that phenomenon for like 2 months and always noted temperature, humidity and other atmospheric data from a weather station, when I was seeing "chemtrails".

The data is non-relevant. That means that in every imaginable weather these trails occur, thus eliminating the theory that these are normal contrails, which rarely form under specific atmospheric circumstances.

Oh and: Haters gonna hate.

(Those knowing me from this thread know what that means.)

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/3,899,144

This is a patent for a sky-writer. The kind that is used for mid-range and terminal point anti-missile defense system test targets and for small aircrafts to write advertisements and "marry me Jane" in the sky over the superbowl.

There is nothing in this that suggests this device was made for or is being used for "spraying us" and the soil with. It's a patent for things that we DEFINITELY know they are being used for; missile interception tests and sky-writing.



http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/045102

This is about cloud seeding, which can be done from planes, by using artillery rockets, etc. This has never been a secret and was designed to help reduce the effects of drought.

Nothing kept a secret on this.

http://www.weathermodification.org/

Same as above, nothing new or secret (not to say that is what you were implying, though) and also not what you are seeing in the pics posted above. You seed over the top of already formed clouds, you cannot see it from the ground. If you can see a trail coming from behind an aircraft is aint cloud seeding as there obviously aint any clouds to seed!!

Contrails and cloud seeding, two different things.

http://www.americanheritage.com/arti...005_2_48.shtml

http://www.universetoday.com/16728/t...sile-olympics/[/quote]


Yeah, so all there is here is missile testing, sky-writing and cloud seeding. None of it related to contrails and the conspiracy theories that I've been seeing previously. I can't see what this has to do with contails....., or as I like to call them, shapeshifting lizard people Sino-Soviet flouridetrails.




another thing for the pro=chemtrail crowd to think on:

When you see people crop dusting, do you see them doing it from 30,000 feet in the sky or are they swooping down low over the crops?

That's right, they come in low. you know why? because the powders and fluids they use are very light and are easily blown away by winds...., yes, that's right, the same way you see clouds blowing across the sky!!

So how could something so light be released at 30,000 feet have any chance of falling anywhere but randomly over thousands of square miles/kilometers?



Last question...., have any of you theorists ever flown in a plane before? Me, I have more times than I care to remember. I've watched the condensation form, disappear and reform as the wing moves through areas of high and low humidity. Guess the lizard people flouride pods are invisible being that I didn't spot them on the wings.

 

[arora]

Sleestaks?

better give them back that red chrystal or you'll end up in a net

Or actually David Icke and his reptoid hypothesis would be a better explanation.

EDIT: hotlink broke

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

Sleestaks?

better give them back that red chrystal or you'll end up in a net

Or actually David Icke and his reptoid hypothesis would be a better explanation.

I havent heard a lot about who is doing this spraying, so I assume lizard people are doing it. To take our guns, that is.

 

[wfooshee]

Who says it was a commercial aircraft reversing its course? Military aircraft orbit rendevous points all the time. Tankers, especially.

And from the ground, you just absolutely cannot say, "That aircraft is at 12,000 feet." You just can't.

If somebody wanted chemicals in our systems, there are just too many far easier ways to get it distributed. Water systems, food supplies. . . Heck, put it in gasoline so all the cars distribute it right at ground level.

 

[Keef]

Who says it was a commercial aircraft reversing its course? Military aircraft orbit rendevous points all the time. Tankers, especially.

And from the ground, you just absolutely cannot say, "That aircraft is at 12,000 feet." You just can't.

You're right about the altitude estimate. The only way I've been able to make accurate estimates on the height of cloud bases is to first guess, then go check the weather reports for the actual base altitude. From experience now I've been able to estimate the height of only dense cloud bases within a few thousand feet of ground level. Because I'm familiar with the size of some small aircraft and the traffic patterns around our local airports, I'm also able to estimate (i.e. know) the altitude of the small planes that fly in my area often.

As for military aircraft, I live near Wright-Patterson AFB. They regularly fly C5 and C17 aircraft in large patterns around the entire city of Dayton. They fly low, but they still orbit the area.

 

[Encyclopedia]

Slightly off-topic but is it just me or has conspiracy theories had a recent upswing? Everywhere I go (on the internet) there seems to be these theories, NWO, Illuminati, chemtrails etc.

 

[Dotini]

Slightly off-topic but is it just me or has conspiracy theories had a recent upswing? Everywhere I go (on the internet) there seems to be these theories, NWO, Illuminati, chemtrails etc.

Conspiracy theories have always been around, and a tiny few of them have actually been true. For instance, the assassination of President Lincoln was definitely a conspiracy.

However, in these times of dire social unrest and economic distress, every paranoid nutjob with a cellphone can start or perpetuate a rumor, riot or conspiracy theory about some obscure cabal that is "oppressing" him.

There are many legitimate reasons for airplanes to leave trails in the skies. The best one is the ordinary contrail which provides nucleation around which new clouds will condense. Clouds are "good" because during the day they will tend to cool down the earth below.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[ExigeEvan]

Oh and yep I did a "servey" on that phenomenon for like 2 months and always noted temperature, humidity and other atmospheric data from a weather station, when I was seeing "chemtrails".

The data is non-relevant. That means that in every imaginable weather these trails occur, thus eliminating the theory that these are normal contrails, which rarely form under specific atmospheric circumstances.

So you measured conditions on the ground, anywhere from 0-40,000 ft away from where you needed the data. Genius.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

However, in these times of dire social unrest and economic distress, every paranoid nutjob with a cellphone can start or perpetuate a rumor, riot or conspiracy theory about some obscure cabal that is "oppressing" him.

It's true. The current economic situation is the first step of a larger plan by gravy companies to use exploding horses to distract us while they swap all the condoms in the world for used mufflers.

 

[FoolKiller]

Oh and yep I did a "servey" on that phenomenon for like 2 months and always noted temperature, humidity and other atmospheric data from a weather station, when I was seeing "chemtrails".

The data is non-relevant. That means that in every imaginable weather these trails occur, thus eliminating the theory that these are normal contrails, which rarely form under specific atmospheric circumstances.

Just to check, all this data you collected was for upper atmosphere data, like, 10,000 feet and higher?

 

[DK]

It's true. The current economic situation is the first step of a larger plan by gravy companies to use exploding horses to distract us while they swap all the condoms in the world for used mufflers.

I thought that was the Pope's conspiracy...seeing as he hates condoms and used an example of a STD-infected gay prostitute as the only acceptable reason to use them.

 

[Alex p.]

Just to check, all this data you collected was for upper atmosphere data, like, 10,000 feet and higher?

Erhm...no?...I don't know. With weather station I meant the data of the weather station, which provides the data for the weather forecast. I guess all the data refers to the air we normaly breath at ground level.

Regardless, as I said, no matter what data was showen, these trails always occured, in every possible mix of the data.

I mean, if "weather" down here is different the next day, it should be different up in the air. Or am I mistaken there? I kinda think that's logical but correct me please if I'm wrong.

 

[Keef]

Oh and yep I did a "servey" on that phenomenon for like 2 months and always noted temperature, humidity and other atmospheric data from a weather station, when I was seeing "chemtrails".

The data is non-relevant. That means that in every imaginable weather these trails occur, thus eliminating the theory that these are normal contrails, which rarely form under specific atmospheric circumstances.

Oh, I see. So you're saying that you went to NOAA's AWC and noted the winds and temperatures aloft, all the way up to FL530. And apparently you understand how to translate their windspeed, direction, and temperature readouts into something that makes sense.

I highly suggest you go to your local community college and take an introductory meteorology class, especially one that is aviation related. The weather man on TV gets his information from AWC stations, but he only picks out the information that matters to land lubbers and translates it into something they can understand. There's a lot more to it than that.

EDIT: This is information regarding the US. I don't know about Germany's weather service, but the same types of information with the same acronyms will be available because the language for weather reporting was developed internationally a long time ago.

Just to check, all this data you collected was for upper atmosphere data, like, 10,000 feet and higher?

Technically, the "upper atmostphere" as far as avation is concerned begins at flight level 18,000, FL180, which is where they stop reporting altitude based on actual altitude and begin reporting it based on atmospheric pressure, or pressure altitude. That in turn is based on the a standard model of what pressure should be where, so a plane flying at FL180 is flying on a level of pressure, but is rarely right at 18,000 feet.

 

[Jay]

18000ft transition level is mostly just the US/Can though, most of the rest of the world use lower levels. Some parts of Europe go as low as 3000ft.


As for "Chemtrails".... I'm not even going to comment..

 

[FoolKiller]

Erhm...no?...I don't know. With weather station I meant the data of the weather station, which provides the data for the weather forecast. I guess all the data refers to the air we normaly breath at ground level.

Regardless, as I said, no matter what data was showen, these trails always occured, in every possible mix of the data.

I mean, if "weather" down here is different the next day, it should be different up in the air. Or am I mistaken there? I kinda think that's logical but correct me please if I'm wrong.

Ever have two days that were fairly similar but have high wispy clouds one day and a clear blue sky on the next? Mid-high altitude clouds form from supercooled water or ice crystals. Or maybe you have had a very calm day but seen clouds seem to blow by, as if being carried by a fast wind?

Or ever had a winter storm where it is snowing, then turns to sleet, and maybe even freezing rain at some point? Snow is frozen as it forms as ice crystals and stays frozen all the way down, sleet forms as a water droplet and hits freezing cold air as it falls, freezing on the way down, and freezing rain forms as water and doesn't hit freezing temperatures until it approaches ground level. You can have all three in one winter storm, which means the upper atmosphere is unstable and changing that much while you are sitting in the same conditions you have been the whole time.

Those are just simple observational examples, as is standing in a desert or rain forest and looking at a snow-capped mountain, which I have done in Hawaii, or going up a "small" 6600ft (~2000m) mountain in summer to find your 85 degree day is 32 degrees and snowing at the top, and the next day go up to find it is as warm as the base, which I have done in The Great Smoky Mountains.

I won't get into the higher complexities of the troposphere, wind friction at ground level vs high altitude, jet streams, etc. because it will take too long. But you can witness the effects of the changes in high altitude weather in your own personal experiences.

 

[Alex p.]

Ever...

Thx for the input.

But it's funny for how stupid you seem to "see" me. I know how snow comes about, I know how it can be tropical at ground level and snowing above in the mountains and I know of jet-streams.

But what I saw at that night were NO natural clouds, period. Because I look at the sky every day and I know VERY exactly how these trails look like when they are ejected by the plane (how is not important here).

These trails I saw at that night were from planes. Wether it were "chemtrails" or ice crystals is another question.

But still, thx for input.

 

[FoolKiller]

But what I saw at that night were NO natural clouds, period. Because I look at the sky every day and I know VERY exactly how these trails look like when they are ejected by the plane (how is not important here).

These trails I saw at that night were from planes. Wether it were "chemtrails" or ice crystals is another question.

But still, thx for input.

I never suggested they were natural clouds. You said that you recorded weather data and you saw these occur even in conditions contrails couldn't form, using data from a ground-based weather station providing ground-based weather data. I m explaining that determining the conditions where contrails would form based on data gathered on ground-based weather doesn't work.

And then there are other issues that could go into it as well, like the kinds of planes in certain conditions, speed of the plane, altitude of the plane, so on and so forth, that you cannot know with civilian access data gathering techniques.

 

[DOUQA]

I think its sad how there are so many people who instantly brand someone an idiot for buying into a conspiracy theory. Especially this one.

Not one of you who has posted in here knows for sure whether these trails are the harmless result of aircraft moving through the sky, or chemicals being sprayed onto parts of the population. Not one of you.

Anyone who blindly believes what they are told, is an idiot in my opinion.

Nobody has come in here saying "They are definitely chemicals being sprayed onto us by the government", but there are plenty saying "They are definitely not, idiot".

I don't know if they are due to normal planes going about their normal daily business or if there is something more behind it. I would be more suprised to find out for certain that they are spraying chemicals on us, than to find out that they are not, but, until that day, I'm not ruling either one out.

The trails I have seen have certainly had some interesting configurations, ones that are hard to imagine have been caused by seperate airplanes on their way to a,b,c and d.

 

[Alex p.]

I never suggested they were natural clouds. You said that you recorded weather data and you saw these occur even in conditions contrails couldn't form, using data from a ground-based weather station providing ground-based weather data. I m explaining that determining the conditions where contrails would form based on data gathered on ground-based weather doesn't work.

And then there are other issues that could go into it as well, like the kinds of planes in certain conditions, speed of the plane, altitude of the plane, so on and so forth, that you cannot know with civilian access data gathering techniques.

I understand your point of course, as always.

I think its sad how there are so many people who instantly brand someone an idiot for buying into a conspiracy theory. Especially this one.

Not one of you who has posted in here knows for sure whether these trails are the harmless result of aircraft moving through the sky, or chemicals being sprayed onto parts of the population. Not one of you.

Anyone who blindly believes what they are told, is an idiot in my opinion.

Nobody has come in here saying "They are definitely chemicals being sprayed onto us by the government", but there are plenty saying "They are definitely not, idiot".

I don't know if they are due to normal planes going about their normal daily business or if there is something more behind it. I would be more suprised to find out for certain that they are spraying chemicals on us, than to find out that they are not, but, until that day, I'm not ruling either one out.

The trails I have seen have certainly had some interesting configurations, ones that are hard to imagine have been caused by seperate airplanes on their way to a,b,c and d.

Unfortunately though, I did pretty much that, when I "entered" the thread...

But I agree, it's (amazing?) how offensive people can get, I always wonder how big their mouth would be when they would stand in front you...

 

[DOUQA]

Unfortunately though, I did pretty much that, when I "entered" the thread...

Oh! You did? You idiot!!

Perhaps I should have read a little more slowly. Unless you are very much in the know you cant be sure though, can you?

 

[FoolKiller]

Something else I just noticed.

siginificant spraying in America started around 1998 and in Europe in 2003.

I heared from 2004/2005 they have started to spray mostly at night in order to not to catch too much attention.

So, basically after only 1 or 2 years of significant spraying in Europe they completely switched their tactics? Makes me wonder why you were seeing significant grid patterns in the day only six months to a year ago.

I think its sad how there are so many people who instantly brand someone an idiot for buying into a conspiracy theory. Especially this one.

Not one of you who has posted in here knows for sure whether these trails are the harmless result of aircraft moving through the sky, or chemicals being sprayed onto parts of the population. Not one of you.

Anyone who blindly believes what they are told, is an idiot in my opinion.

Nobody has come in here saying "They are definitely chemicals being sprayed onto us by the government", but there are plenty saying "They are definitely not, idiot".

I don't know if they are due to normal planes going about their normal daily business or if there is something more behind it. I would be more suprised to find out for certain that they are spraying chemicals on us, than to find out that they are not, but, until that day, I'm not ruling either one out.

The trails I have seen have certainly had some interesting configurations, ones that are hard to imagine have been caused by seperate airplanes on their way to a,b,c and d.

I see nothing wrong with asking conspiracy theorists to back up their claims with scientific data. But when they present one data point and proclaim it as proof, and then have no responses when you ask if it was tested against all other possible causes I cannot accept that as scientific fact. I will bring up questions regarding supposed proof because that is how science works. If it is impossible to 100% prove that your data is due to a specific cause then you must disprove all other possible explanations.

 

[Alex p.]

Oh! You did? You idiot!!

Perhaps I should have read a little more slowly. Unless you are very much in the know you cant be sure though, can you?

 

[DOUQA]

I see nothing wrong with asking conspiracy theorists to back up their claims with scientific data. But when they present one data point and proclaim it as proof, and then have no responses when you ask if it was tested against all other possible causes I cannot accept that as scientific fact. I will bring up questions regarding supposed proof because that is how science works. If it is impossible to 100% prove that your data is due to a specific cause then you must disprove all other possible explanations.

Wow! Aren't you smart!!
Try reading my post before you quote it and respond.

 

[Alex p.]

Something else I just noticed.




So, basically after only 1 or 2 years of significant spraying in Europe they completely switched their tactics? Makes me wonder why you were seeing significant grid patterns in the day only six months to a year ago.

Well, the answer is simple. These trails can be seen also during daytime, it is simple fact, as it can be viewed, I can not change that fact.

 

[FoolKiller]

Wow! Aren't you smart!!
Try reading my post before you quote it and respond.

Sorry, when I read:

Not one of you who has posted in here knows for sure whether these trails are the harmless result of aircraft moving through the sky, or chemicals being sprayed onto parts of the population. Not one of you.

I assumed you were throwing a blanket accusation at everyone "who has posted in here" and sought to defend myself. I apologize for my poor reading comprehension. I will not bother you any more.

Well, the answer is simple. These trails can be seen also during daytime, it is simple fact, as it can be viewed, I can not change that fact.

If they spray mostly at night though, shouldn't there be significantly less during the day at this point? You would think that we would see far less of the grid patterns during daylight hours.