Chemtrails or Contrails?

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I see a lot of planes going over my house, the other day the sky was clear and there were 2 planes, one was leaving a long trail and the other was leaving a short one like in the video. The only explanation for it is that they are at different altitudes they could be 10000ft apart, from the ground you can't tell this also they could have been 50 miles or more away from where I was making it even more difficult to judge this.

When I was younger I had a keen interest in planes so I used to watch them a lot I can tell you now that this has always happened, I'm 28 and when I say younger I mean I was about 10 years old. The evidence for this suggests that this has been happening in europe since 2003, I was seeing this around 1992/93. From this the evidence is incorrect as it either means that it was happening a lot sooner which I doubt, or that it's not happening at all which is what I think.

Intresting. Some things I still do not understand, like the argument is, the colder the air is, that means the higher a plane flights, the bigger the contrail should be. But I see planes flying literally only 1500-3000m in altitude and they leave like 10 times longer and thicker trails than the planes flying at altituted of 8000m and higher.

EDit: OH and only yesterday I was out jogging in the park and I observed one particular plane, it was a two-engine commercial looking plane, flying at an altitude of NOT more than 3000m and it left a long trail. Some 10 minutes later I see it again, not leaving a trail behind it and the altitude was pretty much the same.
 
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Air-pressure, speed, the amount of throttle, wind direction, the direction the plane is traveling and a lot of other things are important too and you cannot know all of this.

How do you know it was the same plane anyway? Same goes for the altitude.

EDIT: And just imagine how big the tanks for the chemicals would be, the trails are several kilometers long.
 
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Intresting. Some things I still do not understand, like the argument is, the colder the air is, that means the higher a plane flights, the bigger the contrail should be. But I see planes flying literally only 1500-3000m in altitude and they leave like 10 times longer and thicker trails than the planes flying at altituted of 8000m and higher.

EDit: OH and only yesterday I was out jogging in the park and I observed one particular plane, it was a two-engine commercial looking plane, flying at an altitude of NOT more than 3000m and it left a long trail. Some 10 minutes later I see it again, not leaving a trail behind it and the altitude was pretty much the same.

The problem with this is like I said in my last post, you can't guess what altitude a plane is at from the way you have described, well you can guess but it will be very wrong, also like Gt Ace said there are more things that come into play as well.

I'm not trying to say you shouldn't believe in this as it's your opinion, I'm just stating why I don't believe in it.
 
The problem with this is like I said in my last post, you can't guess what altitude a plane is at from the way you have described, well you can guess but it will be very wrong, also like Gt Ace said there are more things that come into play as well.

I'm not trying to say you shouldn't believe in this as it's your opinion, I'm just stating why I don't believe in it.

I understand of course and absolutely respect your view.

Air-pressure, speed, the amount of throttle, wind direction, the direction the plane is traveling and a lot of other things are important too and you cannot know all of this.

How do you know it was the same plane anyway? Same goes for the altitude.

EDIT: And just imagine how big the tanks for the chemicals would be, the trails are several kilometers long.

Good points Maurice, also thought of that of course already. Concerning the tanks, they really do not have to be that big, to spray of say some 100-200 km you really do not need a big tank, as the material spreads widely with the wind in the atmosphere.
 
Intresting. Some things I still do not understand, like the argument is, the colder the air is, that means the higher a plane flights, the bigger the contrail should be. But I see planes flying literally only 1500-3000m in altitude and they leave like 10 times longer and thicker trails than the planes flying at altituted of 8000m and higher.

EDit: OH and only yesterday I was out jogging in the park and I observed one particular plane, it was a two-engine commercial looking plane, flying at an altitude of NOT more than 3000m and it left a long trail. Some 10 minutes later I see it again, not leaving a trail behind it and the altitude was pretty much the same.

You cannot tell the altitude of an aircraft by eye from the ground. You just simply can't.

Someone else mentioned contrails over Europe since 2003????? Really???

There were contrails over Europe in 1944. They were made by B-24s and B-17s.

There are more conditions than just temperature that affect the formation of contrails. Pressure, humidity, and speed are part of it as well. As for long, short, off, on, whatever: it's simply the aircraft passing through air of different conditions. You've never been going down the street on your bike and encountered an area of noticably cooler air, then feel it suddenly warm up again?
 
1.You cannot tell the altitude of an aircraft by eye from the ground. You just simply can't.

2.Someone else mentioned contrails over Europe since 2003????? Really???

There were contrails over Europe in 1944. They were made by B-24s and B-17s.

There are more conditions than just temperature that affect the formation of contrails. Pressure, humidity, and speed are part of it as well. As for long, short, off, on, whatever: it's simply the aircraft passing through air of different conditions. You've never been going down the street on your bike and encountered an area of noticably cooler air, then feel it suddenly warm up again?

1. Possible, yes.

2. I am aware of this. But pretty much at that time there, allegdly, were the first spraying tests made.
I know that natural contrails can be also very long, and stay for about 20 mins in the air, I observed that myself.
 
You cannot

Someone else mentioned contrails over Europe since 2003????? Really???

There were contrails over Europe in 1944. They were made by B-24s and B-17s.

I meant that's when I heard that the chemtrails were first spotted not contrails 👍.
 
Not accurately. Error range of +/- 10,000 feet perhaps. If you are lucky.

I knew this will be missunderstood. I meant that it could be possible that guessing the altitude is rather impossible.
I believe now it is obvious what I wanted to say.
 
Alright, these soil tests have been done by a (biologist it was?), in America, who has been noticing a significant increase of the so called chemtrails and with them a significant increase of various metals and other substances in the soil. The really interesting part here is that he and others allegedly tested Aluminuim amounts of particles in the air (soil too?), which are 15.000, yes, 15.000 times higher than the "normal" amount of particles. Now if that is true, there is no way these numbers are the result of "natural or accidental" pollution, at least it does not make sence to me. Some also tested snow and water in mountain regions, where heavy spraying has been spotted and there these extreme numbers have also been found.
Hopefully we can find these test results in a properly documented fashion and replicate all of his results. However, I can make a wild guess at what else could be a cause of this. I wonder if he tested for mercury too because in many US states and countries around the world they have legislated that compact fluorescent bulbs (CFLs) must be use in place of incandescent bulbs. An issue has come about this where there is a concern of the mercury in these bulbs causing pollution. It is currently not a verified real concern, but it is out there. "But they aren't talking about mercury." Of course not, that can be directly linked to pollution very easily. It doesn't fit the theory. However, in those same bulbs you have:
Phosphor in a CFL is a phosphate mix that may contain manganese, rare elements such as lanthanum, and yttrium as either an oxide or a phosphate, along with a barium/aluminum oxide. Phosphor components may vary slightly depending on the color of the lamp.
.
You can read the full contents of that article here (PDF). Now, if the mercury pollution is enough to raise some concerns and many places require only CFL use, why would we not expect to see barium and aluminum as well? Or if mercury is in all kinds of places due to industrial pollution, including to the point where wild caught fish, like salmon, are considered a possible risk factor what industrial processes are also using barium and aluminum and causing similar pollution? That would even explain snow and water in mountain regions. Heck, since the fish in those same waters is supposedly laden with mercury it seems almost likely or expected in some cases.

Again though, this is all just speculation.

Now to the lungs, as far as I know, "chemtrail-believers" did not test anybody or themselfes concerning the lungs and barium but I read several times that the...ugh what was that...it was some American health center thing?lol, well it was a governmental health institution sth., which has all the statistics concerning health of Americans obviously and they stated that respiratory deseases in the last, I believe it were 15 years, increased by 3000%. Oh and yeah they concluded the source must come from the air the people breath, how they concluded it, don't know. I really find it hard to believe this could ONLY have been caused by industrial or traffic pollution. Also, this would fit in the "theory" or observation that siginificant spraying in America started around 1998 and in Europe in 2003.
1998? I graduated from high school and started college in 1997 and when I was a small child I though the contrails were exhaust from Buck Rogers style spaceships, and then when I was old enough to know they were planes I thought it was exhaust. I didn't realize it was contrails until I was old enough to understand the physics behind them. I see where comments of testing before were made, but was the testing as common as the actual spraying being done today? Or were they mostly contrails then and now suddenly all chemtrails. That just doesn't make any sense.

As for respiratory disease rates in the last 15 years: From the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), quoting the Centers for Disease Control (CDC):
eims.ROEreport.displayImage

Decrease in bronchitis, and a fairly steady rate of emphysema.

Age-adjusted for all COPD:
eims.ROEreport.displayImage

Odd, from the dates this stuff supposedly started from there is a mostly across the board decrease. And COPD is the 4th greatest health killer in the US. [sarcasm]Maybe the spray is actually a cure? Evil Scum![/sarcasm]

Now, notice there is a note that a change in testing occurred in '98. So, maybe they are using some old form of statistical data that shows the similar increase as we see before the division line on the chart. But that is not the process being used by any medical group studying respiratory disease today. So we are left with either trusting these "scientists" whose best publications are You Tube videos without peer review, or the rest of the scientific community that specializes in respiratory disease. Anyway, of the governmental agencies that would have this information, there is no documented 3000% increase, unless they are nit picking out one bit of data, but the various forms of COPD are most commonly due to smoking and/or pollution.

Wait, I forgot lung cancer, the deadliest form of all cancers in all people.
According to the CDC:
In the United States, incidence of lung cancer has—

* Decreased significantly by 1.8% per year from 1991 to 2006 among men.
* Increased significantly by 0.4% per year from 1991 to 2006 among women.
* Decreased significantly by 1.8% per year from 1997 to 2006 among white men.
* Increased significantly by 0.2% per year from 1997 to 2006 among white women.
* Decreased significantly by 2.7% per year from 1997 to 2006 among African American men.
* Remained level from 1997 to 2006 among African American women.
* Decreased significantly by 3.2% per year from 1997 to 2006 among American Indians/Alaska Native men.
* Remained level from 1997 to 2006 among American Indians/Alaska Native women.
* Decreased significantly by 2.0% per year from 1997 to 2006 among Asian/Pacific Islander men.
* Remained level from 1997 to 2006 among Asian/Pacific Islander women.
* Decreased significantly by 2.5% per year from 1997 to 2006 among Hispanic men.
* Decreased significantly by 0.7% per year from 1997 to 2006 among Hispanic women.
Hurm...

I know, Asthma. Back to the CDC.:
Results: From 1980 to 1996, 12-month asthma prevalence increased both in counts and rates, but no discernable change was identified in asthma attack estimates since 1997 or in current asthma prevalence from 2001 to 2004. During the period of increasing prevalence, patient encounters (office visits, emergency department visits, outpatient visits, and hospitalizations) for asthma increased. However, rates for these encounters, when based on the population with asthma, did not increase. Although the rate of asthma deaths increased during 1980--1995, the rate of deaths has decreased each year since 2000.
OK, at this point I have no clue what respiratory disease you are referring to. I have listed the most common ones, some of which are also some of the most common diseases in general in the US, and it is all decreases in the time frame that this chemtrail spraying supposedly began. All I can tell you is that whoever told you that was lying. Why would they do that?

Better yet, why would you trust anything else they state after that?
 
Hm, thx for the research, all interesting indeed. I gotta check my source in some time.
Just a thought. You should have checked it, and verified it, before calling people puppets.

I do not buy into anything easily. I must be able to see publicly available research with peer reviews and that research must be able to be reproduced by any other scientists using the same valid methods. If I can ask as many questions as I have here without satisfactory answers then I cannot trust their findings. This is why I don't buy into a lot of stuff easily. It is why I highly question that global warming is man-made. It is why I don't believe every "for the good of society" regulation will do what they claim. In short, it is why I trust very little of what is said without a way to verify it.

I don't need to believe in some Machiavellian conspiracy to distrust my government. They use enough junk science of their own and have enough poorly thought out or knee-jerk reaction good intention ideas for me to do that already.

That said, I love listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell and George Nory (if you don't get it look it up online. You will love it....trust me), but I treat it like entertainment.
 
1.Just a thought. You should have checked it, and verified it, before calling people puppets.

I do not buy into anything easily. I must be able to see publicly available research with peer reviews and that research must be able to be reproduced by any other scientists using the same valid methods. If I can ask as many questions as I have here without satisfactory answers then I cannot trust their findings. This is why I don't buy into a lot of stuff easily. It is why I highly question that global warming is man-made. It is why I don't believe every "for the good of society" regulation will do what they claim. In short, it is why I trust very little of what is said without a way to verify it.

I don't need to believe in some Machiavellian conspiracy to distrust my government. They use enough junk science of their own and have enough poorly thought out or knee-jerk reaction good intention ideas for me to do that already.

That said, I love listening to Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell and George Nory (if you don't get it look it up online. You will love it....trust me), but I treat it like entertainment.

1. I KNEW this would come. :lol: But really, I deserve it. To my justification though: I admited somewhere earlier in this threat that it was stupid of me, because..well...it was stupid.

The art bell show, yeah I know that one. Listen from time to time to that, though I do not see it as only entertainment, I like thinking out of the box and I am sure some things were absolutely true, that have been talked about there.

Now I know how that sound when I am the one saying this, but I have my reasons, besides my intuition or simply will to believe in it.

Believe me, when it comes to "Aliens" and such, I know what I'm talking about (not that I would have FACT KNOWLEDGE), but I researched this topic now for years religiously lol, I really know a lot about it.
 
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Believe me, when it somes to "Aliens" and such, I know what I'm talking about (not that I would have FACT KNOWLEDGE), but I researched this topic now for years religiously lol, I really know a lot about it.

That may be the single most internally inconsistent sentence I've ever seen! Congratulations.
 
Thank you a lot. (If that meant sth. like that my writing style sucks, well, no native speaker)
 
Believe me, when it somes to "Aliens" and such, I know what I'm talking about (not that I would have FACT KNOWLEDGE), but I researched this topic now for years religiously lol, I really know a lot about it.
I did a research paper on it for a psychology class. Well, on abduction experiences.
 
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I did a research paper on it for a psychology class. Well, on abduction experiences.

Sounds interesting, how comes that? What do you work as? What was the result? (You don't have to answer, as it is not really threat-related.)
 
Thank you a lot. (If that meant sth. like that my writing style sucks, well, no native speaker)

I didn't mean that your style was poor, and honestly I didn't even notice your location. What I meant was that claiming to know a subject, but not with "FACT KNOWLEDGE," certainly seems contradictory.

No offense intended, but perhaps a bit of teasing. :dopey:
 
Sounds interesting, how comes that? What do you work as? What was the result? (You don't have to answer, as it is not really threat-related.)
I contemplated a psychology minor in college, but dropped it when I switched schools. They were all nuts anyway.

Has nothing to do with my job at a media and public relations research company. But my job does lead me to need multiple reliable sources for true verification of facts. It took me about two weeks to realize people are biased, even when they try not to be. Nothing ever can be taken at face value, no matter how trustworthy you think they are. Half the time they don't realize they are full of it themselves.
 
1.I contemplated a psychology minor in college, but dropped it when I switched schools. They were all nuts anyway.

2.Has nothing to do with my job at a media and public relations research company. But my job does lead me to need multiple reliable sources for true verification of facts. It took me about two weeks to realize people are biased, even when they try not to be. Nothing ever can be taken at face value, no matter how trustworthy you think they are. Half the time they don't realize they are full of it themselves.

1. :lol::lol::lol:

2. I see and yeah I understand.
 
The phrase, "So what?" comes to mind.

What does a smoking spent booster have to do with contrails?
 
The phrase, "So what?" comes to mind.

What does a smoking spent booster have to do with contrails?

The contrails seem to have a strange beauty to them toward the end, with sparkling lights and strange colors.

If the flight never made orbit and was lost, as the one comment suggested, I wonder why it didn't fall all the way down to earth?

If the flight actually made orbit, perhaps the display came from ejected materials such as barium?

I don't know, but thought the video was amusing enough to post just on account of the pretty light show. It reminded me of my old lava lamp! :)
 
The contrails seem to have a strange beauty to them toward the end, with sparkling lights and strange colors.

It is amazing what happens when light passes through ice water and vapor, isn't it?
 
Do you think the light would be light reflected from the sun?

At those altitudes, quite possibly. Any light source would suffice though, provided it had more than a single wavelength.
 
Ok, so for like 4 weeks or so I'm documenting everything I consider as interesting in the sky regarding "chemtrails".

Often I take photos with my crappy mobile phone but that is better than nothing.
So today I shot something I consider to hint at "chemtrails".

Here are the first two shots taken from the same trail at the same time, where, when you look carefully, see that there are actually two white lines, which would be the normal contrails, and other lines next to them, which look very different, which in my opinion does not make sense, when there are only contrails.



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The next two shots were taken like 10 minutes later, where the two white lines (I consider them contrails) already dissappeared and where something else was left and started slowly to spread.



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The last two shots show this remaining stuff totally spread out and forming something like a "cloud". Taken some hour later.



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Ok, so for like 4 weeks or so I'm documenting everything I consider as interesting in the sky regarding "chemtrails".

Often I take photos with my crappy mobile phone but that is better than nothing.
So today I shot something I consider to hint at "chemtrails".

Here are the first two shots taken from the same trail at the same time, where, when you look carefully, see that there are actually two white lines, which would be the normal contrails, and other lines next to them, which look very different, which in my opinion does not make sense, when there are only contrails.



The next two shots were taken like 10 minutes later, where the two white lines (I consider them contrails) already dissappeared and where something else was left and started slowly to spread.




The last two shots show this remaining stuff totally spread out and forming something like a "cloud". Taken some hour later.


I live under Gatwick and heathrows route to the states (about 20 miles away from both airports) and that looks like any I see allday. Our skies are full of them, some do look weird however there are so many of them they are almost normal.

And about the then spreading into clouds, if you are where I am in the summer, a clear sky in the morning will turn turn almost overcast by the end of the day because of these trails alone.
 
I live under Gatwick and heathrows route to the states (about 20 miles away from both airports) and that looks like any I see allday. Our skies are full of them, some do look weird however there are so many of them they are almost normal.

And about the then spreading into clouds, if you are where I am in the summer, a clear sky in the morning will turn turn almost overcast by the end of the day because of these trails alone.

Yep, noticed that too. Thx for feedback.
 
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