COCKPIT and DASHBOARD VIEWS in GT5!

[Lisa_Bonami]

...Folks, I dont want to make this a long drawn out post but I have to preface my post with a little banter. I have grown up in the days of racing with the TEST DRIVE series way back on the PC and always been an old fashioned fan of the IN CAR Cockpit/Dashboard views of each car. I felt it gave a unique experience to driving each of the cars in the game.

Now I have seen this sort of Bumper/Roof Cam with floating gauges evolve into the video game scene over the years and have been greatly dissapointed that this has now pretty much become the defacto view along with the birds eye 3rd person view behind the car. Have all these big racing game companies gone lazy on us or what?! I just cant understand at what point this transistion happened and why it has now become the standard....ESPECIALLY with games such as Gran Turismo and FORZA who pride themselves on the ultimate driving simulations. For me, the ultimate driving simulation is the being immersed in the illusion that I am actually driving one of these many cars. I can surely respect and admire all the work GT and Forza seemed to have put into the physics engine and calculating to make these cars react and behave like their real life counterparts but I have to truly say that the sensation is dulled a bit by the fact that I dont actually get to sit in the cockpit and drive from behind the dashboard! I don't like driving out on the front of bumper any more than I like playing Rainbow Six with just crosshairs alone on the screen with no view of my arm and weapon!

I have just recently played GTR Racing on the PC and another amazing title called LIVE for SPEED and these games both utilize the Cockpit view to their fullest and the surreal feeling of actually driving is taken to the next level! I mean its so cool the way your whole cockpit will shift and bob to simulate momentum, acceleration, braking, rough terrain and G's!

Particulary, I like how you can set your head to turn slightly in the direction your turning which creates a frightening realistic driving experience.....I think GT and FORZA need to mimmick some of these amazing advancements in creating the ultimate driving experience and seriously consider actual in dash camera angles for their next games......I miss them so much!

What do you all think?

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I think if that happens and GT goes to that style, we'll lose alot of the cars available to race with in GT. Also, the wait for PD to complete all the cars it'll have in the game to do that will leave us waiting a long time till we see another version.
I'm happy with what we have now, a high amount of cars, and a great for the PS2 looking game. 👍

 

[un_peacekeeper]

lol, yeah, probably take more time to detail the interior...and since ur up close, they have to spend even more time on it to perfect it than the exterior

 

[Kay-tek]

I wouldn't mind to sacrifice an amount of cars in order to get a cockpit view.
It would contribute a lot to a better driving experience I think.

If that would turn out to be impossible, a view that only shows the hood of the car from the driver's viewpoint ( and not from the roof of the car like in GT4 ) would also be a great solution. Especially for all of us freaks with a DFP and a homebuilt cockpit.

I can understand that this isn't a big deal to the people using a regular controller, but to me, it kinda is.

BTW this was my first post on GTP

Greetzz

 

[TVRKing]

I think if that happens and GT goes to that style, we'll lose alot of the cars available to race with in GT. Also, the wait for PD to complete all the cars it'll have in the game to do that will leave us waiting a long time till we see another version.
I'm happy with what we have now, a high amount of cars, and a great for the PS2 looking game. 👍

At the end of the day though, half of the cars in the GT series are just the same car with a different badge.

I'd welcome cockpit views.

 

[Max_DC]

Games with nice cockpit perspective : Battle Gear 2 & 3 (PS2, jp)
Test Drive for Xbox 360

I would also like to see more racing games with a cockpit view, and I think the latest generation of consoles will provide games with this feature (along with GT5 hopefully)....

 

[Samelborp]

Need For Speed Porsche Challenge had good dashboards, not a bad game (PC version) for being a NFS title. But I am doubtful about the amount of work and extra polygons dashboards and cockpit views would impose... I prefer better physics.

 

[j8mie]

I don't really care about cokcpits. I'd rather have another 200 cars to drive than lose 400 and gain some 3d cockpits. Cockpit views are always over rated IMO. I think there are more important things that need looking at........LIKE THE SILLY STUPID AI......grrrrrr......

 

[G.T]

Yeah, but seeing the cockpit will make the driving experience more real.

I'd gladly welcome it.

 

[WorksAccess]

push more greater realism cockpits like GTR offers. now that would be nice, with a steering wheel that moves. dash lights, gauges etc.

 

[G25RJ]

:idea:I think that they could use a simple inside the car view with a generic gauge (as simple as in GT4), like the one in the TOCA 2 but a little more far from the windshield with a glass effect and other minimal details.

:tdown:You can’t compare GTR with the GT series because in GTR they had only 13 cars to model.

And there is no way I would sacrifice more cars for only 100 cars with the cockpit viewbecause that is just about what you’ll get with the time they have to make the game.

 

[Shannon]

I can just see it now:

"Bah! PD are lazy developers! They're using the same cockpit for all 500 cars. You'd think they could spend the extra 10,000 days modelling the interiors for every single car in the game, but nooooo. Slack arses. "

The simple answer is that it will just take too long for individual cockpit views. But then if they used the one of two cockpit designs for all the cars, people would complain about them not creating cockpit views for all the cars and acuse them of taking the quick way out. The easiest way is just to leave the whole thing out.

 

[Rue]

GT5 must have cockpits to make that next jump towards a totally immersive environment. If you have played GTA San Andreas, when you are using in-car view and you can see out of the side windows you feel totally immersed in the game. Why, oh why didn't they have an out of windscreen view too?!?! PD have to put this feature into GT5!

 

[G25RJ]

GT5 must have cockpits to make that next jump towards a totally immersive environment. If you have played GTA San Andreas, when you are using in-car view and you can see out of the side windows you feel totally immersed in the game. Why, oh why didn't they have an out of windscreen view too?!?! PD have to put this feature into GT5!

This is what I'm talking about, a very simple inside the car view. That would be good enough 👍

 

[inferno]

They already style the interiors of the cars. How hard would it be to add some detail and put a camera in their. I remember NFS hot pursuit had a code you could enter to get an inside view. The interior was horible, really low detail, and the A pillar and roof would flicker at times but It was so cool I didnt care. If GT would incorperate in an car camera even with interiors like in the convertibles of GT4 I will be more than happy.

 

[extase4u2]

i agree, i've been missing that real in car feeling other games are able to provide.
it doesn't have to be of an awesome realism, it may even be the same for all the cars, i really don't care. the point is, that an actual cockpit would make it ' a real driving similator' as PD claims to be for the moment.
ok, the physics are there, but i doubt that in real life they would tie a person onto the roof, therefor one might ask; is this a real simulator if you don't get the realistic view ?

 

[Max_DC]

Here are some pictures, I'd like to see something like that in GT5...

Battle Gear 3 (PS2, jp)

Battle Gear 4 (PS3 ???)

I'm really looking forward to BG 4, awesome arcade mountain racing game series...

 

[LundTSJ]

If they are going to do this they should go all the way and remove the map, time and lap displays... but in GT4 the camera in "normal" view was in the right postion acording to the car... if we are going to get anything out of In Car View we ned a 360 degree TV first...

 

[kikie]

A cockpit view must have a "look to apex" feature or TrackIR compatibility, like in GTR

GT4 already has dashboards ==> covertibles!!!!

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

My God!...I think some of you people are getting crazy with this....first off, to some of you, lets not determine what PD could and couldn't do due to time and resources in regards to dashboard views. The truth is, you simply do no know. Your overestimating the time and manpower involved in creating dashboards in a camera angle. If PD has already 3d modeled over 700 cars in painstakingly high polygon detail along with roads and tracks down to the most minescule imperfections, then the task of creating 2d rendered dashboards that brackets your view thru the windshield of each car would not be any where near as challenging for them to include.

For some of you that find no signifigance and added realism with the addition of an IN DASHBOARD camera angle, I suggest you immediately go download GTR RACING and LIVE for SPEED and tell me that the dashboard view doesnt completely take driving to the next level of realism. My point is...this game is a driving simulator yet it doesnt even capture the illusion of driving in a car as well as some other games that dont claim to be such. Hey I love GT but adding a DASHBOARD CAM would allow the game to create even more driving realism illusions by allowing the programers to simulate the sudden cockpit shakes and movements from centrificual force and momentum effects...so in essence, you could compliment and enhance the detailed physics even moreso.

For some reason I find driving in view that just shows nothing but the road and floating gauges is as dull as playing DOOM with just a cursor on the screen without being able to see my arm and weapon

 

[j8mie]

Lisa Bonami - Some valid points there, thanks for sharing them.
I always remember KY saying that he would only put something into the final game if it was perfect. No half measures basically. Now think about this in relation to dashboards. They would have to be 3d, with a moving steering wheel + hands, and working lights, and when you look left/right you would see more/less of the interior. and if PD made one minor mistake then people would moan like hell about it (remember the fuss caused over the 4wd Ford Lightning?) Then you have to do this for 700+ cars, and with a hi res finish. Make sure each light works and don't forget the hand leaving the steering wheel when you change gear, and hand movements for when you flash your lights or hit your horn (that is if they put these two in). Sure it's do able, but not at the expense of other more important things.

I've got GTR and Live For Speed, and I don't really care for the dashboard view. Sure it makes you feel more like your in a car.......but at the end of the day your still only sat at your desk playing on a computer. So no matter what PD do, it will never feel like driving a real car. With this in mind I feel that PD should spend their time more wisely working on new features, better engine sounds, more cars/tracks and better AI, before they start adding dashboards.

I'm not saying that my view is the right one, because it's not, I'm just saying that this racer does not care about dashboards...........but if they made the final game then well done PD.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that if PD do put in damage, then you need to have a damage model for each dashboard/interior.........I want to have an accident and see the airbag go off in my face

 

[Dave A]

Even 3d dash's would reduce the number of cars in the game, what would it take still, a few extra modellers on the team, theres 70+ people in the PD team, they arn't under staffed. The driver animations were done in GT4 so why would they they only implement them if they had a dash view in GT5, they'll be there anyway.

Personally I love the dash views in EVERY racer now I have a wheel anyway, it's just the most immersive way to play.

 

[HondaRacer]

I think you guys are forgetting something very important. Developers for the PS3 have 54 GIGABYTES to work with, as the games will be on Blu-Ray discs. With that kind of space, the number of cars in GT5 will still increase over GT4 even if every car has a fully modeled dashboard view.

I like j8mie's comment about air bags going off. Logitech's next DFP should integrate this feature with GT5, so that in the event of a strong impact, your air bag will go off!

 

[extase4u2]

as a personal opinion i think that PD shouldn't include the steering with the dash view.
most of us play with DFPs so we have a steering wheel right there.
wheter the lights on the dash work or not, doesn't make a big difference in programming, and again, i don't think this is important.
the only thing that matters is that we feel like actually driving a car, and not floating on air...

 

[Liquid Li0n]

It would be cool to have a dashboard cam. Like you can read in my signature, a lot of cars are the same so they better take some time to make a interior cam, with hands on the steering wheel, the hand moves when shifting or pulling the e-brake.

In GTR and Live For Speed is it just awesome, only thing that is IMO so stupid is that you can't see hands on the steering wheel in GTR and in LFS the hand stick on the steering wheel anytime! But better as nothing! But those are PC games.
PS3 is awesome if you read the spec and watch the movies but when it will be released in Spring 2006 computer will maybe already be better.

 

[kayman]

Maybe if the "floating Dials" where the actual dials from the car, but i will still use the bumper cams

 

[maxter]

I always remember KY saying that he would only put something into the final game if it was perfect. No half measures basically. Now think about this in relation to dashboards. They would have to be 3d... blah, blah, blah

What a crock... PD will put in what the majority of users will find acceptable, taking into account development time, effect on system resources etc etc, all ascertained through some careful and detailed market research.

I do not believe for a moment that the majority of users (via randomly selected focus groups) will knock back a generic or semi generic (with basic customisations - badges or other insignia) interior view should it be available on all cars as opposed to highly detailed renditions on a few.

 

[j8mie]

What a crock... PD will put in what the majority of users will find acceptable, taking into account development time, effect on system resources etc etc, all ascertained through some careful and detailed market research....blah blah blah blah

Rubbish! KY wants to make the GT series the most relistic driving simulator available on any format. A generic dashboard will not help.

Main Entry: sim·u·la·tor
Pronunciation: 'sim-y&-"lAt-&r
Function: noun : a device that enables the operator to reproduce or represent under test conditions phenomena likely to occur in actual performance

Not the key word used above...........REPRODUCE as in COPY.

Using a generic dashboard will never happen. That is why weather was not included in GT4, because the PS2 could not handle it. So instead of putting in a dodgy weather system he didn't put it in at all.

Either way I don't care if they put them in or not, so long as they sort out the problems of GT4 first.

 

[gotoguy]

You know if they only had about 150 cars. I don't mean each car with a different paint job I mean 150 total models it might not be impossible to have better cockpits. GT-R seems to do it just fine. If I have to race another car under 100hp I'm gonna scream!!

 

[maxter]

Note the key word used above...........REPRODUCE as in COPY.

"Function: noun : a device that enables the operator to reproduce or represent under test conditions phenomena likely to occur in actual performance"

Ah hah, selective quoting of a key word, well there is another one up there ... An interesting tactic.

rep·re·sent ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rpr-znt)
tr.v. rep·re·sent·ed, rep·re·sent·ing, rep·re·sents

To stand for; symbolize:
To act the part or role of.

The most realistic simulator ever, I guess PD/KY forgot that concept when he introduced AI competitors. Maybe he will let the cockpit realism slide as well and introduce generic cockpits.

And what do you call the track surfaces that are available at the moment, real or generic?

So if the PS 3 can handle weather, will it be generic or will it be real? ie downloadable weather for the realistic location etc. Surface winds, winds aloft, boundary layers, types of rain or generic rain, sunshine or ambient temperature differences????? You see realism has many degrees of realism

Everything is a compromise... Think before you back yourself into a corner I always say.