COCKPIT and DASHBOARD VIEWS in GT5!

[Nattefrost]

Do we know GT5 will feature damage? PD said they wanted to put it in, but we'll still have to wait and see. They would have to model each car's underside and engine (in case the hood comes of), which might take them some work. Maybe while they're at it they can create dashboards at the same time, we'll see. I can't wait for the first actual details on GT5.

 

[Dave A]

KY said he believes that damage will be one of the main themes of GT5.

 

[Nattefrost]

Yeah that's what I meant when I said "PD said they wanted to put it in", I'll only believe it when they state it officially or show it in a movie or something.

 

[soptom]

Isn't it amazing that the ethos of realism only extends to what appears real to some. The other stuff that does not appear real is somehow dismissed as either a programming error or being the result of inadequate processing power. How very convenient. I didn't mention error or processing power.
You may be right or you may be wrong, you may be accurate or you may be hopelessly inaccurate, but until there are ingame screenshots of the items, you are only speculating... That is the only definate thing about your statement. Obviously I'm guessing.
At present there are generic tyres, generic add on components, generic road surfaces etc etc so why not generic dashboards??? But 95% of people don't comment that the road surfaces are the same for each track, the tyres are the same for each car or that components are the same, (they aren't, just because two cars can have a choice of, for example, a semi, or full race exhaust, doesn't mean they are the same) the moment you have the same cockpit in two different cars, 95% of people will moan.
I don't know if there will even be an internal view in the next version. There might not be one, but given the generic nature of other stuff in the GT series, then why not a generic dashboard?

Because he wants the cars to look as realistic as he can make them, thus dedicated cockpits or no cockpits.

 

[maxter]

Because he wants the cars to look as realistic as he can make them, thus dedicated cockpits or no cockpits.

Yup, I understand where you are comming from.

From my point of view, I draw a significant distinction between a car simulator and driving simulator. I may be wrong on this, but the last time I looked, the GT series was being touted as the most realistic driving simulator and not the most realistic car simulator. It's the driving part that I personally am looking for. PD and KY may be heading in another direction altogether. Maybe Enthusia or Forza will head down the driving path rather than the 700+ plus cars with perfect looks and dodgy dynamics. Can anyone say Option Stream???

 

[MikeK]

Heck, just give me an accurate hood cam and I'm happy. Won't be too hard to do---they already make distinctive roof cams for every car.

 

[Drillah]

Damgae, AI and Cockpits are what the next version needs or it will just be a graphical upgrade to GT4 IMO.
You have 2 views now, most racing games have several. if there is no cockpit view then at least a decent hood or roof cam real close to the car.
And have an option to show or not show the wheel. Options people.
Don't take anything out of the old games...just keep adding to the new ones. Someone else said it: 54 GB of data!!!
Upgrade GT4, add more tracks, add a few more views, add damage, add better ai and wham GT5.
Get to work PD.

 

[G25RJ]

...Don't take anything out of the old games...just keep adding to the new ones. Someone else said it: 54 GB of data!!!
Upgrade GT4, add more tracks, add a few more views, add damage, add better ai and wham GT5.
Get to work PD.

I don't think PD didn't put more car and tracks because of space, the game have 5 GB and DVD9 have a total of 9GB, the problem here is time.

 

[kikie]

Cockpit, dasboards, steering wheel, damage and crashes ===> airbags going off if you crash your stock road car. If you want realisme, you need airbags

 

[ZeratulSG]

Time to chime in here

Cockpit views are immersive, yes. I also grew up in the Test Drive/early Need For Speed era with cockpit views. They're nice and pretty, and they make me go "ooh so THIS is what it feels like to sit in a GT car", but at the end of the day they amount to screen clutter. A RL car is not limited by a small amount of screen real estate.

Imagine driving your RL car with the door windows painted black. You can only see through the windscreen, no peripheral vision. Sounds like fun eh? Now try doing it at 150mph with a bunch of other cars all around you. Yeah right. You'll be dead by turn 4. No, most people do not have TrackIR (or are able to make effective use of the "look left/right" feature of the GT4 bumper cam). So to answer all those who ask why the bumper cam became de facto, the answer is simple: screen real estate. To offset the narrow view available to the gamer, they have to maximize their use of said narrow view (similar concepts to those used in software user interface design).

As for generic cockpits, I doubt we'll see them for two reasons: 1) KY won't like the idea, and 2) neither will many many fans. For better or worse, racing games now rely heavily upon visual realism and detail in addition to all the rest. If my RL RX-8 exterior looked the same as the Mazda6 in GT, I wouldn't be very impressed. Likewise, if the RX-8 cockpit looks the same as the Mazda6 cockpit, I'm just gonna turn it off (well I would anyway, but you get the idea...). The bar has been raised too high to move backwards in this regard.

I'm playing GTR also, and as someone else said they only had to model a handful of cars. The on-screen steering wheel is a pain since I have my DFP setup for 540 degrees for GTR and the on-screen wheel turns less than the real one, so it's off-putting. The info displays on the dash are too small to be useful during a race (if it was rendered actual size, maybe, but that would require a big TV/monitor). Plus you have no legs. Okay, I know we're modeling the cockpit not the driver, but c'mon, if you're gonna give me the ability to look down at the pedal well, show me my legs! That's just creepy

Anyway, I think a happy compromise would be the ever-elusive hood cam. Like the roof cam, but not on the frikkin' roof! And with the same level of "feel" the bumper cam gives WRT weight transfer etc. because that roof thing feels like I'm driving a solid concrete slab. Maybe they could even offset the cam to the driver's side of the car, and perhaps even model the windscreen frame (that would be easy to model for each car, not much involved except shape) along with the hood of the car. Then maybe simulate the real dials. That should be reasonable.

Oh, and to whoever said they can model 50 cars a day, apparently it took something like 3 weeks to completely model a single car for GT4 (visuals, sounds, etc.) and that doesn't include the dash/dials. 👍

 

[maxter]

Imagine driving your RL car with the door windows painted black. You can only see through the windscreen, no peripheral vision. Sounds like fun eh? Now try doing it at 150mph with a bunch of other cars all around you.

I'm not sure when the last time you had the opportunity to sit in a modern open wheeler, say a current spec Formula Ford with a full face helmet. Well guess what, it's exactly as you describe above. Those guys seem to do OK. Even a relative novice like myself managed reasonably well.

In respect of the real vs generic dashboard, I would not presume to know what KY or his research team or his developers think, but as I have said many times already, if that is what the fans want, he would be pretty stupid to ignore them. Then again it may not be what the fans want and that would be OK too.

 

[G25RJ]

This is how I think the cockpit should look like, with the use of some textures of the car's dash of course.

 

[ZeratulSG]

Yeah that first pic is kinda what I had in mind, though it should be situated more forward so as to maximize screen usage (a lot of wasted space top and bottom there) and perhaps off-center to the driver's side. Nice mock 👍

 

[ZeratulSG]

I'm not sure when the last time you had the opportunity to sit in a modern open wheeler, say a current spec Formula Ford with a full face helmet. Well guess what, it's exactly as you describe above. Those guys seem to do OK. Even a relative novice like myself managed reasonably well.

Yes okay, my analogy was perhaps less then perfect. What I was trying to illustrate was that we're limited in games by the fact that we have no "sense" of our surroundings. Even in the open-wheelers you mention, the driver can move his head around and still has some peripheral vision helping him out, while in games we have nothing more than a 74cm (or whatever) 2D flat image to convey everything we need to know. If you add in cockpits a la GTR, you've just lost about 40% effective screen space and visibility and your peripheral vision won't help you here.

 

[maxter]

This is how I think the cockpit should look like, with the use of some textures of the car's dash of course.

Excellent, that was precicely what I have been talking about in this thread. As the other poster said, possibly a view a little closer to the windscreen to utilise a bit more screen real estate, but very much the right direction. In the first instance possibly a company emblem related to the car being driven, but not much more. Well done...

 

[maxter]

Yes okay, my analogy was perhaps less then perfect. What I was trying to illustrate was that we're limited in games by the fact that we have no "sense" of our surroundings. Even in the open-wheelers you mention, the driver can move his head around and still has some peripheral vision helping him out, while in games we have nothing more than a 74cm (or whatever) 2D flat image to convey everything we need to know. If you add in cockpits a la GTR, you've just lost about 40% effective screen space and visibility and your peripheral vision won't help you here.

At present, there is no true periheral vision modelled in GT either. Stand in a car with your head sticking out of the sunroof, hold an open ended cardboard box in front of your eyes, and that is in essence what you are seeing in GT. The only issue in question is how long the cardboard box is. Actually in GT, your head is sticking out of the car's bonnet which is an equally unrealistic view in my opinion.

However, yes, I do understand where you are comming from as well, but a 40% across the width of the screen loss is a bit of an excessive claim IMHO, but all it really needs is a representation of the "A" pillars and the bonnet as well as a simplified dash and these things would give me a much greater sense of realism.

 

[G25RJ]

Thanks !

Yeah that first pic is kinda what I had in mind, though it should be situated more forward so as to maximize screen usage (a lot of wasted space top and bottom there) and perhaps off-center to the driver's side. Nice mock 👍

I know it’s not in the right place but I can’t change the position of the camera inside the car.

Excellent, that was precicely what I have been talking about in this thread. As the other poster said, possibly a view a little closer to the windscreen to utilise a bit more screen real estate, but very much the right direction. In the first instance possibly a company emblem related to the car being driven, but not much more. Well done...

They could use textures from part of the original dash too.

I’ll try to modify and post some more images. 👍

 

[ZeratulSG]

At present, there is no true periheral vision modelled in GT either.

Yeah that's what I was saying 👍

Stand in a car with your head sticking out of the sunroof, hold an open ended cardboard box in front of your eyes, and that is in essence what you are seeing in GT. The only issue in question is how long the cardboard box is. Actually in GT, your head is sticking out of the car's bonnet which is an equally unrealistic view in my opinion.

Exactly! Although the bumper cam IMO is in the grill of the car, or perhaps where the hood ornament would be (if there was one).

However, yes, I do understand where you are comming from as well, but a 40% across the width of the screen loss is a bit of an excessive claim IMHO, but all it really needs is a representation of the "A" pillars and the bonnet as well as a simplified dash and these things would give me a much greater sense of realism.

Agreed, I was saying that we don't NEED to lose 40% screen space, but if you look at the cockpit view in GTR, for example, 40% is roughly what you lose.

 

[maxter]

Yeah that's what I was saying 👍

Exactly! Although the bumper cam IMO is in the grill of the car, or perhaps where the hood ornament would be (if there was one).

Agreed, I was saying that we don't NEED to lose 40% screen space, but if you look at the cockpit view in GTR, for example, 40% is roughly what you lose.

Phew, it looks like we agree on most of it then
Excellent, roll on dashboard cam...

 

[un_peacekeeper]

The major problem in fact for me is the lack of peripheral vision.

Yeah, in RL, we can move our heads. we can't in the game

 

[grantugorismohp]

if you played grand prix carreer challege 2001 with the logitech steering wheel you probably had a good time driving these f1. I mean, that it makes the game a lot more realistic.there is nothing better than rotate your steering wheel and see the driver do the same. but with the new dFP in gt4 takes the realism even further because while rotate your steering wheel you can see the driver switching hands while making a turn

 

[Superhero Wally]

i would love to see the cockpit view, but lets be realistic. With all the cars that are in these games not to mention there will be even more cars in the next "major" installment(GT5) and with the increasing amount of detailing they can put in because of more powerful gaming systems, they might as well be preparing it for PS5.

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

we want our cockpits!.....play the demo called LIVE for SPEED. You can download it at LiveforSpeed.net Its only about 20 or 30 megs but it is far more immersive and realistic then GT4 or Forza......the cockpit view is the only view offered in the game and it is unbelievable....the realism and authenticity of driving from this view makes you insist that ALL games make driving this way rather than this sudden Magic carpet ride camera that seems to becoming more and more popular

 

[Slicks]

I agree that Live for speed has an excellent cockpit view, but there are other views in the game (hit V or C?? Look in options). I think a cockpit view is (one of) the next big steps that PD needs to take for GT5. There may be a lack of peripheral vision, but something like the 'look left/right' feature in LFS could be modelled in. The PS3 controller may have more buttons than the PS2 has (I haven't taken a look @ the controller yet).
People are saying how it took xxx # of days to model a single car. For GT5, they may not have to remodel every car. They already have the bases that were created for GT4, and I think they would only have to make new models for new cars that they add. I think that if they can manage to model 700 cars, they can also get the interiors too.
Another thing that has been said that is that it would take alot of time and $$ to reproduce a cockpit view. This, in my opinion, is not a problem. PD makes the GT series to make money. They are very good at this, as proven by GT4's sales figures. The profits made from GT4 could easily cover the expansion of the design team needed to make GT5 the game it should be, complete with better AI, physics, graphics, cockpit views, etc.

Options are (one of) the keys to a great game. The more options, the more people you please.

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

I agree with alot of opinions here but I still stand behind my statement...the Gran Turismo series has always about being the ultimate driving simulator and allowing the player to drive many DIFFERENT cars. I think the cockpit/dashboard view is a MUST have in GT 5 to further indulge the player in the totally immersive driving experience that only the Gran Turismo series can capture.......plus it will give each car an even more distinct feel and look in the game to better seperate the experiences a player has from each vehicle

Give us them please!

 

[Chris Criswell]

Yeah I wouldn't mind taking out a couple hundred japanese cars to save some disk space for more realism

 

[Dave A]

Disk space is not an issue, were talking over 8 times as much space as GT4 used on a single Blue Ray disk.

 

[ls2_297]

im not sure about everyone else but i think an interior view which showed the wheel moving ect... would look very strange if you were using say a DFP... you would see like 2 wheels, and wouldnt look realistic. Maybe if PD modeled and interior which showed the gauges and the windscreen over lookin the bonnet?? wat ya think??

 

[ZeratulSG]

@ls2_297: Agree 👍 We don't need to waste screen real estate with a wheel and the shifter etc. just the dash, the windscreen, the hood and the pillars

 

[Dave A]

Maybe havea toggle to show the wheel or not, however there would be a problem, because the wheel would be modelled in the car, and any camera angle from the drivers seat would be behind the wheel. Personally I like to see the wheel on screen like in GTR, Ihave it setup so as Iturn the DFP the wheelon screen turns the same ammount. I never look at my DFP, ever, I always use the onscreen wheel as my reference.