COCKPIT and DASHBOARD VIEWS in GT5!

[j8mie]

...The most realistic simulator ever...

I didn't say that KY had thought he had the most realistic simulator ever. I said

...KY WANTS to make the GT series the most realistic driving simulator available on any format...

Which means that this is his target. I don't doubt for a second the track surface is generic, but each surface might wear tyres at a different rate (i have no proof of this, but it might have been implemented). I don't doubt that the weather would be generic, but the point is that no bugger would tell the difference between different types of rain and how they would effect the car. But people will notice the difference between a Nissan and a Toyota dashbaord. This is why generic dashboards will not make it into the game.

It's more about what's more important. Why waste millions of yen on developing a weather system that no one will notice, where they could spend that money on modelling 3d dashboards for each car which people will notice and enjoy.

...The most realistic simulator ever I guess PD/KY forgot that concept when he introduced AI competitors...

I think the AI is just down to poor programming or lack of talent within the GT team. They seem very capable of creating a 13 mile track to a few mm's of accuraccy but not up to getting the AI sorted.

Read someones post properly before you comment on it, I always say. Here endith the lesson.

 

[maxter]

It's more about what's more important. Why waste millions of yen on developing a weather system that no one will notice, where they could spend that money on modelling 3d dashboards for each car which people will notice and enjoy.

Read someones post properly before you comment on it, I always say. Here endith the lesson.

Well a meningless nonsensical lesson all the same... For those who want the best most realistic driving simulator ever, and not the best dashboard simulator, then a realistic internal view (be it generic), realistic weather, realistic roads, realistic AI and realistic damage would in my experience be a more desirable outcome...

But then again, maybe there are those who just notice and enjoy sitting in their cars, marvelling and pressing the buttons on thir dashboards and yelling VROOM, VROOM

I guess it's horses for courses...

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

Well a meningless nonsensical lesson all the same... For those who want the best most realistic driving simulator ever, and not the best dashboard simulator, then a realistic internal view (be it generic), realistic weather, realistic roads, realistic AI and realistic damage would in my experience be a more desirable outcome...

But then again, maybe there are those who just notice and enjoy sitting in their cars, marvelling and pressing the buttons on thir dashboards and yelling VROOM, VROOM

I guess it's horses for courses...

Maxter, the point your not getting is this....games such as GTR Racing and Live for Speed on the PC use the cockpit/dashboard view to add a much richer illusion and sensation of driving by using simple motion effects such as rocking and shaking the dashboard, allowing you to view left or right in the game by having the screen pan and allow the player to look thru the sides, the illusion of steering is creating by seeing your arms extend from the screen onto a virtual steering and actually move....its all kinds of stuff like this that completey absorbs you further into the game! That is the reason we want a cockpit view...not to look at a finely detailed dashboard!......If the designers took your perspective when creating this game, then there also would be no reason to render detailed trees, mountains, and clouds in the background either!.
And while we are at it, why do the cars have to be as realistically looking as they are to?.....Forza should also just save some more productivity time wasted on rendering high polygon detailed cars as well and just make simplified lo polygon count go car rectangles instead so that can free up even more time so they can work exclusively on creating a much more detailed physics engine and further improve the AI with even better damage modelling!......Do you see how silly this sounds? The game should have a little of everything

And a game as detailed as this game is, should have NO excuse not to have a dashboard view in ADDITION to all the other great details in the game.



I dont know when this dashboardless car driving view started to become the norm??....most of the old school driving games had the cockpit view and they were great!



I mean, how do we simply accept this?.....Would you accept DOOM or Half Life if it simply made you walk around with just a cursor on the screen and you didnt see your arm extended with your weapon in hand? How would you feel when firing weapons?? Probablly not too excited.....so why should racing games be any different?



Do a search on Google for GTR Racing and Live for Speed.....download both of these demos and just play them for 10 mins each and tell me that these games dont take the sense of driving to the next level......DASHBOARDS are awesome!

 

[soptom]

Like someone said already, many people play using a wheel and thus don't want to see another wheel on screen with arms turning it. The cars should be as realistic as possible, if the graphic capability is there, use it, but not for individual cockpits, it's too much development for a choice that the majority won't use,(just my opinion) why cut off half of your screen just so you can see a few dash lights and such? Use the whole screen and get the best possible view for the driving, after all, the driving is what it's all about.

 

[Dave A]

Some of the fastest drivers use the in car vierws in Live for speed and GTR, it's not a handicap. Also it won't add to the development time, PD arn't short staffed they can get a few more in to work on the dash's as the cars are being done. An option to play with or wthout the wheel on screen could be useful, personally I prefer it on screen. I don't look at the DFP when I'm driving in GTR, I look at the wheel on the screen, the DFP may as well be invisible.

 

[G25RJ]

... Also it won't add to the development time, PD arn't short staffed they can get a few more in to work on the dash's as the cars are being done. ...

If PD's staff is as big as you imagine then why they had to make a list of all the cars they wanted in the game so they could cut some of the cars so GT4 could be on stores in 2005 not in 2006.

These cars don’t take one day to gather the necessary data to put it in the game.

 

[Dave A]

Licensing issues, theres over 70 people working for PD thats big for a single development team, don't argue, look it up.

The data for the cars is gathered in 2 ways, specs which are easy to get, and the physical side of it, where they record and photograph the cars ect, this has already been done for all the cars in past GT's remeber. They can go through 50 cars a day doing that anyway.

 

[maxter]

Maxter, the point your not getting is this....

Lisa, on the contrary I absolutely get it. I too have Live4speed, and GTR and very much wish that GTx would have the interior view. As an avid flightsimmer, I am only too aware about the immersive nature of a fully pannable/scrollable "cockpit"

My point is that each car does not need to have the exact dashboard (replica) that the original has. Sure over time that can be achieved, but as a first cut PD could easily have a generic Honda, Nissan, Toyota, Jaguar etc etc dashboard especially given the lead time for the launch of GT5 IMHO would only be a bit over 6 months or so. If it is about 2 or so years to GT6, it gives them more time to do more accurate dashboards for that version.

I just find it nonsense or unbelievable that PD would choose to ignore a simplified version of a dashboard if that is what the majority of users want, especially is there is spare computing power available to display it, just so that some concept of the "most realistic simulator" is preserved even though so much else in the game/simulator is generic.

 

[mikeheikesr]

I remember back when i had a need for speed game. not sure which one. but it only had a few cars. But each car had the dash and guage cluster from the real cars and everything worked. Plus they had little real car videos on the cars in the game. Thats what i want.

 

[Evolution.]

I have something say about this:

PD CAN mke dashboards,and SHOULD make dashboards for their cars.No,I do not mean have 1 dashboard for 1 car.I mean have 1 dashboard for 1 make.Make all of the lights and gauges function,have a working steerling wheel with hands on it,the center console area on stocker cars (i.e:Stereo head on a Civic etc.,heater controls and what not).And they should also create a windsheild wiper button if possible for rainy conditions (or make them automatic).The windsheild should also get dirty.

 

[maxter]

PD CAN mke dashboards,and SHOULD make dashboards for their cars.No,I do not mean have 1 dashboard for 1 car.I mean have 1 dashboard for 1 make...

That is exactly what I mean when I say the there should be a generic dashboard for the next version if development time and dollars are tight...

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

Maxter...I apologize for before, I didnt get what you were saying and thought you were being sarcaastic. I really would love the cockpit cam...especially in a realistic driving sim. Once you play a game like Live for Speed or GTR Racing or even EA's Nascar Racing and experience driving thru a Cockpit cam, you simply cant go back to any other view because it feels so real and so much more immersive......In a Racing SIM like Forza or GT, I want to experience as closely as I can what a real driver would experience, not some Magic Carpet Ride Camera that makes me feel like Im flying more than Im driving.

 

[Dave A]

They could go one better than a generic cockpit for each make, 2 or 3 for each make, have one for the race cars, with the carbon fibre and then one or two for road cars, say Cheverolet for instance would have a race car dash, a classic style dash and a modern sports car dash.

 

[maxter]

They could go one better than a generic cockpit for each make, 2 or 3 for each make, have one for the race cars, with the carbon fibre and then one or two for road cars, say Cheverolet for instance would have a race car dash, a classic style dash and a modern sports car dash.

Exactly, but you would agree, there is not a lot of point in making an identical cockpit/dashboard for each individual car for the concept to increase the imersiveness of the simulator, or is there??? and especially at this very moment if time and budget is short for the launch of the PS3.

 

[Dave A]

It would be better to have each cockpit done as it should be, but it's not as practical as making a couple of generic ones for each make of car. I'd muc rather generic cockpits than none at all.

 

[kikie]

KY is a perfectionist!!
He started the GT series as a personal racing game for himself. Saw that it was (somehow) succesfull and started with a next GT title.
He is going to develop the next GT for the PS3 like he wants it, not what we want.
If he wants to put in dashboard, he is going to put in exact copies of each dashboard of each car in the game. That is the way he works and thinks.
Check the DVD movie from GT4P, and listen to what he has to say. (I know that North America did not get GT4P)

If he makes dashboards, he has to make it possible to use TrackIR, or surround gaming with just one PS3, not as yet, 3 PS2's.
Maybe Sony will develop a monitor specially designed for surround gaming for the PS3 and the next GT series.

 

[maxter]

KY is a perfectionist!!
He started the GT series as a personal racing game for himself. Saw that it was (somehow) succesfull and started with a next GT title.
He is going to develop the next GT for the PS3 like he wants it, not what we want....
...If he makes dashboards, he has to make it possible to use TrackIR, or surround gaming with just one PS3, not as yet, 3 PS2's.

You see, I cannot reconcile statements like that with what is delivered, not only with GT4, but with each version to date.

Each version has had problems of some form, and not perfect. They are all very good, but not all perfect. Confusing media hype and salesmanship with the practicalities of marketing is not a good thing IMHO.

What KY has done to date has been a great thing, but no developer will risk a multi hundred million dollar franchise on a personal whim, believe me. His financial backers won't let him as part of their due dilligence.

 

[kikie]

@ maxtor:
Didn't think of that myself, but make sence what you said. you could be right about that.

But you can't deny that KY isn't a perfectionist. Look at what he did with the drivers in the convertibles and the dashboards in these cars.
Being a perfectionist and not being able to make something perfect is just being human, at least he tries.

 

[maxter]

drivers[/B] in the convertibles and the dashboards in these cars.
Being a perfectionist and not being able to make something perfect is just being human, at least he tries.

I do agree that he is a perfectionist and have been a huge fan of his from the first version.

But in the Computer Gaming Industry, there has been many a perfectionist who has gone belly up because he/she has not paid enough attention to what the market has dictated and instead has gone on with a personal agenda (as good as that may have been at the time).

KY as an entrepreneur did a fantastic job with the early development of his personal "toy", but the thing has become bigger than Ben Hur now and much of the decision making process will be ruled by marketing folks, accountants and lawyers.

 

[kikie]

Yeah, so true

 

[Ringmeister]

this is an interesting question, Dashboard yes or no? i hate dashbord with visible steering wheel and hands on, cause if you play as me with dfp and a "racing" seat, you have a false prospective of the track and dashboard too. you cant see the wheel on the screen if you have it in your hands "REALLY", also have influence on your view angle the distance between you and tv...other point, with the dashboard on, you have less road visual.
for me the perfect dash is in the arcade system of Sega F355.

 

[Dave A]

I dissagree, I use the DFP for Live for speed and GTR and I don't ever look at the DFP, I look at the wheel on screen, the DFP might as well be invisible.

 

[(G)]

The title of this thread was REAALLLY misleading. Anyways, I don't see the point of a dashboard, as it could serve as a distraction, block your line of sight, and make you realize that the field of view of one TV is quite restrictive.

 

[Lisa_Bonami]

Title of this thread was misleading!!?.........Please do tell in what possible way!??....I have discussed exactly what was in the title! What are you talking about??

 

[Satorian]

The title implicates cockpits and dashboards as in GT5 as given fact and makes you expect a link to an official statement due to the exclamation mark.

 

[soptom]

I may not like the cockpit view, others may love it, it may appear it may not, but I'll tell you know that one thing that definately will NOT be in GT5 will be a generic dash. It goes against the whole ethos of realism in the tracks, car detailing, etc. It will be a unique dash for each car, or none at all.

 

[maxter]

I may not like the cockpit view, others may love it, it may appear it may not, but I'll tell you know that one thing that definately will NOT be in GT5 will be a generic dash. It goes against the whole ethos of realism in the tracks, car detailing, etc. It will be a unique dash for each car, or none at all.

Isn't it amazing that the ethos of realism only extends to what appears real to some. The other stuff that does not appear real is somehow dismissed as either a programming error or being the result of inadequate processing power. How very convenient.

You may be right or you may be wrong, you may be accurate or you may be hopelessly inaccurate, but until there are ingame screenshots of the items, you are only speculating... That is the only definate thing about your statement.

At present there are generic tyres, generic add on components, generic road surfaces etc etc so why not generic dashboards???

I don't know if there will even be an internal view in the next version. There might not be one, but given the generic nature of other stuff in the GT series, then why not a generic dashboard?

 

[Elj]

I would prefer a unique dash for all cars, because the point in GT is that you can modify and personalize in a way your car, so when you are ligthening your car, you'd want to remove the dashboard and all the "unuseful" stuff like A/C etc.

That's why a generic cockpit would be enough for me, with carbon and or diamond plate. The major problem in fact for me is the lack of peripheral vision.

 

[kikie]

The fact that we can see the dashboard inside the convertibles when driving with the top down, doesn't that mean that PD already made photo's and the necessary data to create dashboards ???
And why do some think that we will see dashboard in GT5?? Was it mentioned somewhere in an interview?? If GT5 is going to be an update of GT4, then we won't get cockpit views dashboards for sure. But the PS3 si going to be a entirely new and very powerfull platform, PD might just create a new (don't take this too literally) game, with GT4 as a base. Not just an update.

 

[Dave A]

We don't know anything about GT5 besides the fact it's on PS3 and will feature damage. Thoes vids were GT4 with more cars, GT5 won't be GT4 with more cars, however PD may make GT4.5 or whatever for the PS3's launch with online capabilities. GT5 WILL be a completely new game, new graphics engine, better physics, better AI (we hope) ect. I doubt the GT4 engine can do damage very well, it can't do collisions very well, they'll need a new engine for GT5 to use the PS3's power well anyway.