Cockpit view - IMHO overated and not so useful...

[Greycap]

One simple question. What does one see in a real car when concentrating on the road? Well, mainly the road itself. Not the A pillar, not the full dashboard, not the steering wheel, not the ceiling. A bit of the hood and the road are the only things that draw any attention, often not even the hood. That's the magic of the human eye in a 3D environment, it can simply disregard things. However it can't a disregard a thick-as-hell 2D pillar on the screen, nor the dashboard and ceiling that occupy half of the view.

If you want to pretend you're doing it "right" by all means use the cockpit view and cope with the artificial obstacles. If you want to actually do it the way you do it in real life use the so called bumper view which really is the cockpit eyepoint with no visible car, not that the cockpit purists admit it but still, and which gives you the same effective field of view your eyes give you in real life. At least until a "real" hood view is introduced.

 

[Destinkeys]

Am i the only person who uses 3rd person view(behind the car). It just feels more right for me and its what i have always driven Granturismo like. However in Race Driver GRID i can't use any view except cockpit view for some reason.

I guess you can get used to ANYTHING, if you practice long enough!

The trouble with God Cam (bird's eye view) is that the car and the camera aren't fixed to each other firmly, so there's a sort of 'spongy' feeling to the view, at least for me, and also it shows the car pivoting around the center too much, rather than around the back wheels. It just looks odd, IMO.

It certainly helps compensate for that lack of peripheral vision, though!

 

[calan_svc]

Exactly what I said. You want to beleive it's "more real", so you took offense to my post. All you've done is repeat that after saying "no". lol

<snip >

I've never seen a post that sounds so intelligent but yet is so wrong. For someone that seems to understand the concepts behind simulation so well... I just can't comprehend how you miss the logic of why cockpit view causes nauseousness and is more unrealistic than realistic.

Natural view blocks, obstructions, unreadable gauges, "look to apex", seat position, blah blah blah. Those aren't close to accurate in GT5's cockpit view either, but I'll just ignore those reasons.

Contrary to the way it may seem, people that experience motion sickness in games such as GT5 and other similar cases often have senses that are more "in tune" with each other than on average. It's actually quite simple; in a real car, your head and eyes are moving with the high-frequency shaking and your brain compensates for it, creating the reality you experience. With GT5, your head is perfectly stationary and the view is shaking like crazy. For some people with highly tuned senses, their brain has trouble correlating the two sensory inputs.

EDIT: 0boz0 explained it pretty well up there ^. I had missed his post when I typed this.

In fact, there are a couple of videos floating around here that are shot inside a car cockpit with motion stabilized (or shock mounted) cameras. You can see the driver's head moving like crazy, right along with the view outside the window. That is normal; sitting perfectly still while your eyes are bombarded with images shaking at a high-frequency is NOT. Those videos make it pretty clear why GT5's cockpit view is not "realistic" in any sense of the word. It's not a matter of opinion...it's a fact that can be verified several different ways.

I've driven and raced real cars for 25 years. I've never once felt any ill effects while driving or racing. And to be honest, I can't recall ever really noticing the shaking at the time no matter how violent it was, due to all the other sensory inputs, adrenaline, etc. (I have woke up the next morning with harness and shoulder bruises though, so I know it happened ).

So for me at least, headaches and nauseousness (i.e. GT5's cockpit view) is not realistic whatsoever. I can tolerate it for about 5-10 minutes, and then my brain starts screaming at me to do something different.

FWIW, I use cockpit view in every other game I play, and I love it.

 

[jmsbrydon]

I guess you can get used to ANYTHING, if you practice long enough!

The trouble with God Cam (bird's eye view) is that the car and the camera aren't fixed to each other firmly, so there's a sort of 'spongy' feeling to the view, at least for me, and also it shows the car pivoting around the center too much, rather than around the back wheels. It just looks odd, IMO.

It certainly helps compensate for that lack of peripheral vision, though!

I just find it easier as i have a full view of everything that's around me. I find its much easier to overtake especially online so i don't barge into anyone or so i can see the ****'s that are trying to barge me off the road or cut me up. Where as in Race Drive Grid i think they got the cockpit view just right and i admit its way better for the driving line. The cockpit view in Granturismo just isn't the same and i couldn't get used to it anyway because i am constantly changing for a different view when i drive one of my favourite standards. I also like to see the cars which is why i don't like bumper cam. It's probably because i am not old enough to drive yet.

 

[RedBaron]

One simple question. What does one see in a real car when concentrating on the road? Well, mainly the road itself. Not the A pillar, not the full dashboard, not the steering wheel, not the ceiling. A bit of the hood and the road are the only things that draw any attention, often not even the hood. That's the magic of the human eye in a 3D environment, it can simply disregard things. However it can't a disregard a thick-as-hell 2D pillar on the screen, nor the dashboard and ceiling that occupy half of the view.

If you want to pretend you're doing it "right" by all means use the cockpit view and cope with the artificial obstacles. If you want to actually do it the way you do it in real life use the so called bumper view which really is the cockpit eyepoint with no visible car, not that the cockpit purists admit it but still, and which gives you the same effective field of view your eyes give you in real life. At least until a "real" hood view is introduced.

As long as you have some big HD TV and you are sitting close enough, your eyes just concentrate on the road and apexes in front of you the same way as in reality. What is wrong with dashboard and little bit of roof? You can't observe the clouds or dog-ends on the road just under you that you can't even react on because reaction time. Really big issue

Things that I don't like in the cockpits are low-res dials and writings, they should have been in maximum available fullHD resolution and not how they often are - blurry and fuzzy. And wrong eye level in WRC - you can't even see what is few meters in front of you when you are going uphill. C4 WRC cockpit is really useless.

 

[carlosy]

I have to admit that I was a cockpit only driver. In every other sim (GTR2, iracing, F12010, Dirt2 etc.) I used cockpit only.

But somehow in GT5 I have no feel for what the car is doing when driving it on the edge of grip. I don't get the feel for the car. Now I am using the so called bumper cam, especially in faster and aggressive racing cars.

First, it is no real bumper cam. And second, sitting in a real car viewing out of the front window I have a much bigger field of view. And I don't need an additional reduction of my visual input by the already very limited 2D screen that I am looking at.

And the very wrong art of headshaking (it is more like a super heavy tearing) that PD implemented, added up to my change of view.

 

[calan_svc]

BTW - For those that don't realize this...

The speedo and tach in "bumper cam" (and I still hate that view name) are very close to the car boundaries. If you picture an imaginary square surrounding the two gauges, you have a surprisingly accurate reference for where the car's body is on the track.

 

[RacingManiac]

I still don't think the view out of the bumper view(for the lack of better term) is a bit too "revealing" though. In road car maybe I can agree in that you have quite a good field of vision not only width wise but also vertically and you can see maybe 3-4 feet directly in front of you, in anything like a race car, single seater, GT or other wise, you are sitting so low that your direct horizon when you can see the pavement and track edges are some distance off. You don't see the ground whizzing by much at all. Thats not exactly accurate neither....

 

[machschnel]

As long as you have some big HD TV and you are sitting close enough, your eyes just concentrate on the road and apexes in front of you the same way as in reality. What is wrong with dashboard and little bit of roof? You can't observe the clouds or dog-ends on the road just under you that you can't even react on because reaction time. Really big issue

It is a big issue - no matter how close to the TV you set up your "cockpit", it will never be close enough. As said ad nauseum, your arms would have to be half in, half out of the TV (same for your legs) for cockpit view to be realistic. Not to mention the fact that your face would have to be flat against the screen....

Any tips on how I can make my arms go through my TV screen, onto the cockpit view steering wheel, without voiding the warranty?

 

[deftonesmx17]

Where as in Race Drive Grid i think they got the cockpit view just right and i admit its way better for the driving line.

👍
Thats because GRID and Shift have a good sense of all-direction motion when using the cockpit view. When you fling the car into a turn those games give you sideways motion as well. GT5 is only vibration and the only way to get slight sideways motion is if you hit a wall or car and even then it's hardly noticeable.


I'm normally a cockpit view advocate, but I can't use GT5's no matter how hard I try because of how bad it truly is.
I mean what is with the HDR that becomes overbearing when using the in car view, but in other views it's not so overbearing. Windshields do block UV rays, not the other way around like PD have done.

Makes me wonder if DrkPhynx has even done a snow rally yet...I'd like him to and then come back telling us how the entire view turning white is realistic.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I agree with the majority of people here as well. Cockpit is the most realistic view out of them all, but that is only natural as that is similar to the view you get when you are really racing a car. It's pretty much how god intended it.

Not to mention, the other views are extremely dismal in GT5. I just wish we had some cockpit love in the standards

If I feel like toying around in an arcadey view, I will go to bumper or third person.

 

[glydersid]

I was solely a cockpit view person at the beginning, but when I started venturing into Super GT/race cars, the cockpit views are just not usable. So for me cockpit view is only effective with non racing premium cars.

 

[ElSecundo]

For me, it's about field of vision. In the normal everyday world, my surroundings are visible (including peripheral vision) in an almost 180 degree arc.

By comparison, with my 40" TV sitting about 10 feet away, the view of my racing surroundings only fills about a 30 degree arc, maybe even less. Using the cockpit view narrows that field of vision further. Between that and seeing another pair of hands ten feet away, it becomes less immersive for me to use the cockpit view.

In a real car, the A-pillars are in a peripheral location, and I barely notice them. In cockpit view, the A-pillars are right in my field of focus, so it's like sitting behind a pole at a baseball game.

 

[E90SLAM]

You can't see **** inside the cockpit from the Citroen GT.

Driving that makes me feel like this...

 

[Magzire]

after driving for 4 years the cockpit view as good as it gets for immersive feel. way i look at it, cant handle GT5's cockpit, wouldnt stand a chance as a real race driver.

 

[ElSecundo]

after driving for 4 years the cockpit view as good as it gets for immersive feel. way i look at it, cant handle GT5's cockpit, wouldnt stand a chance as a real race driver.

I've been around a few race cars, and they generally don't put two thick pillars in front of a driver's eyes. Also normally out of focus for a driver is their own pair of hands on a steering wheel. Sticking another pair of hands on a steering wheel that's placed in the driver's focus is kind of like having somebody waving their hands in front of your face while you're driving.

If your TV setup lets you get close enough to the screen so that the A-pillars are actually in your peripheral vision, then it has a more realistic feel to it, but you still have to deal with those hands waving in your face.

Godo test of focus? Sure, but not indicative of whether someone is a good driver or a bad one in RL.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

I prefer cockpit-view, I only use bumper-cam for rally and standards. The cockpit view for me is just so natural... so yes, I do better with cockpit-view (except on rally).

Bumper-cam let's you see more, however I am used to cockpit-cam and like it more.

Me too 👍

I'll never be a 'top' racer; or an alien racer; because I prefer the 'difficult' cockpit view; except when driving a rally stage that you can not practice on (use roof cam to see further ahead); or when weather makes it impossible to see out of the cockpit (I then use roof cam to try and avoid the wheel spray from the car(s) ahead)

ElSecundo: " Also normally out of focus for a driver is their own pair of hands on a steering wheel. Sticking another pair of hands on a steering wheel that's placed in the driver's focus is kind of like having somebody waving their hands in front of your face while you're driving.

I look past the hands and wheel to where I am going to go with the car on the circuit/track.

 

[ElSecundo]

I look past the hands and wheel to where I am going to go with the car on the circuit/track.

How big is your screen, and how far away do you sit?

 

[brandon6i]

Just slow down and take a cruise some time. Interior view is great for this.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

How big is your screen, and how far away do you sit?

I have a 42 inch screen and I sit in my playseat about 5-6 feet away; maybe closer 4-5 feet away.

 

[ElSecundo]

Just slow down and take a cruise some time. Interior view is great for this.

Good point, I do like that from time to time. 👍

 

[ElSecundo]

I have a 42 inch screen and I sit in my playseat about 5-6 feet away; maybe closer 4-5 feet away.

When you focus on the road, is the image in your view large enough that the wheel and hands are just slightly out of focus?

 

[BlacqueJacques]

I also have a better idea 'where my car is'; all 4 wheels; when using cockpit view; not counting the elevated 3rd person view which I only use to admire 'my' car amongst other cars (usually A.I. driven).

 

[BlacqueJacques]

I only see the wheel and hands when I purposely look at them; just like when driving a real vehicle; I look ahead to where I am going. You can also zoom in the view to decrease the amount of wheel and hands visible if you like, but you may have less perception of where your cars wheels are in relation to the track/circuit.

Sorry for double post ; sometimes happens when in 'conservation' on a thread

 

[Spagetti69]

When you focus on the road, is the image in your view large enough that the wheel and hands are just slightly out of focus?

Focus on a spot at any distance. The human eye will focus on it but even just slightly to the side your vision will be out of focus.
Try it.

 

[Tommy_861]

after driving for 4 years the cockpit view as good as it gets for immersive feel. way i look at it, cant handle GT5's cockpit, wouldnt stand a chance as a real race driver.

Quite a broad stroke you paint there, especially with "4 years of experience" wow. With out getting into a pissing contest, I'll just say I drive my real life race car perfectly fine, and pretty damn fast, and I hate the cockpit view in this game, for the lack of view, and the fact it makes me nauseous.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Not sometimes a fan of GT5 cockpit view 'eyeball' shake though.

Car shake OK, eyeballs not so much (see other thread on the subject of cockpit view 'shaking')

 

[Spagetti69]

Quite a broad stroke you paint there, especially with "4 years of experience" wow. With out getting into a pissing contest, I'll just say I drive my real life race car perfectly fine, and pretty damn fast, and I hate the cockpit view in this game, for the lack of view, and the fact it makes me nauseous.

Interesting. I find the arcade view gives me a feeling of motion sickness. Certainly feels abit faster due to the scenery passing quicker at the edges.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Bumper cam sometimes makes me nauseous because I 'see' the road surface close and whipping by at times - always go back to cockpit view

 

[Magzire]

Quite a broad stroke you paint there, especially with "4 years of experience" wow. With out getting into a pissing contest, I'll just say I drive my real life race car perfectly fine, and pretty damn fast, and I hate the cockpit view in this game, for the lack of view, and the fact it makes me nauseous.

coming from a former Turbo Buick guy lol