Cockpit view - IMHO overated and not so useful...

[deviln3]

I use the camera on top of the car.. I feel more comfortable with that, plus I get to see the car I bought. I try out the cockpit view just to see what the car is like from the drivers point of view.

 

[Tommy_861]

Interesting. I find the arcade view gives me a feeling of motion sickness. Certainly feels abit faster due to the scenery passing quicker at the edges.

Hmm interesting, thats the first I've seen of the bumper view doing that mentioned in this thread. I brought it back from the dead a couple weeks ago to point out an article talking about how Michael Schumacher gets "sim sickness" which is what some of us get from the cockpit view.

coming from a former Turbo Buick guy lol

Wow you can use Google to find me, I am in awe of your skills. I don't understand whats so funny about being a former Turbo Buick guy. I had a couple, I enjoyed them, they are fun cars for what they are. Obviously limited in the handling department, but oozing with style.

So say again how your lol'ing my past makes my opinion null and void?

 

[Motor City Hami]

after driving for 4 years the cockpit view as good as it gets for immersive feel. way i look at it, cant handle GT5's cockpit, wouldnt stand a chance as a real race driver.

It's a simulator - a game. The cockpit view is missing a whole lot that we get in our real race cars. The game is all visual and one static view. In my racecar, I can turn my head to peak around the "a" pillar or look to the side to see how close the car next to me is. Plus, the biggest thing the simulator cannot do is provide g-forces. You feel a race car through your hips. You know far before your eyes that the car is beginning to slide or rotate.

That's the reason I don't use cockpit view in the game. It doesn't provide enough feedback - it's just visual. I am faster by using chase cam for video games.

 

[BlacqueJacques]

Always comes back to: "to each, their own"

For me its about being as immersed as possible and cockpit cam does that for me

 

[ElSecundo]

Focus on a spot at any distance. The human eye will focus on it but even just slightly to the side your vision will be out of focus.
Try it.

You're absolutely right, but I find that the amount of blur just doesn't work for the size of my screen and the distance I sit from it. All that the cockpit view really accomplishes for me is reduce my field of vision by 25%. It's equivalent to getting in the RX-8 and blacking out about a quarter of the windshield (and the side windows).

I don't get distracted easily when I race. I race slot cars (a lot), and in bigger events it's not uncommon to lose sight of your car entirely when a turn marshal blocks the view at a corner 50 feet away. I don't lose concentration if somebody yells in my ear while I'm driving. But I'm like a horse with blinders on if my field of vision is restricted, and that's the effect that cockpit view has on my driving. I don't feel that restriction at all in any car I've driven, unless somebody piles stuff up on the dashboard in front of me, and that's what the GT5 cockpit view feels like to me. The view from a real car is expansive, but this is very tight and restrictive.

Now, I've tried playing Forza at a friend's house, about 8 feet in front of a 106-inch screen, and there's no feeling of a restricted view. No problem with cockpit view there. If the edges of the screen are still in my field of focus, though, any additional fluff on the screen just serves to block the view.

Hmm interesting, thats the first I've seen of the bumper view doing that mentioned in this thread. I brought it back from the dead a couple weeks ago to point out an article talking about how Michael Schumacher gets "sim sickness" which is what some of us get from the cockpit view.

Cool, I'll need to look that up. I've never experienced "sim sickness" until I tried Forza on the 106" screen. Brief periods of vertigo and nausea. At the time, I pinpointed it to the red and white curbing flashing by me, and it felt like the curbing was at my feet, like the floor was moving under me.

 

[Sele1981]

Agreed with topic, I´ve tried hard to use the cockpit view but it feels totaly weird. I can´t get any feeling... I only use it sometimes when I´m play for fun but even then it isn´t fun...

But yeah PD must implement it because a lot of people would complain about it that GT5 has no cockpit view, also the same with damage, night & day and weather... The damage in GT5 is the biggest waste in gaming history (at least in A-Spec)... what´s the point of visual damage if it hasn´t any effect on the mechanical part of the car...

 

[mxkid714]

I dont mind the restricted view THAT much in GT5 because some cars aren't that bad (mostly street cars) but the vibration just kills it for me. If there was some way to turn it off I'd use cockpit view a lot more.

 

[machschnel]

after driving for 4 years the cockpit view as good as it gets for immersive feel. way i look at it, cant handle GT5's cockpit, wouldnt stand a chance as a real race driver.

What? Like Joey Logano?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k270m7ezQw&feature=player_embedded

Sebastian Vettel?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcJFDmkKmKg

Sebastian Loeb?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDhoeULYBLc

NO, NOT KAZ!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wqm_wx7tgw

And remember, these were all press events, so you'd expect them to be showing off cockpit view, no?

You were saying?

 

[Tommy_861]

You were saying?

Watch out showing him the truth. He might google you and make fun of what he finds!

 

[Delrond]

I find I'm noticably slower using the cockpit view than I am with my preffered bumper cam. So in terms of outright speed, the cockpit view isn't very "useful" to me. But I love the immersion you get from turning off the HUD and switching to cockpit view and just going for a drive.

It's a similar story with the H-Pattern 'box on my G25. I'm faster with the paddle shifters, but the clutch and gearstick are much more immersive.

So, useful? Maybe not, for me. But definitley a great experience.

 

[VBR]

The cockpit view, while not 100% realistic, is the closest thing to reality in GT5 & that's why I use it regardless of whether it's easier/faster or not. A real racing driver isn't strapped to the bumper or roof of his car or even levitating 20 foot up in the air behind his car is he ! A real racing driver sees all of the cockpit from inside the car & has his view of the track partially restriced by the car itself, we get to see some of the cockpit in GT5 & even more if you set 2 buttons to look left & right like most competent wheel users do.

I understand that GT is primarily a game & not a full on sim, that's why it has the alternative unrealistic views to cater for gamers & those who are used to arcade style racing games. However, in iRacing you only get cockpit view & rightly so, I'm glad GT5 has it now too so that serious sim racers can enjoy it aswell.

 

[SonicVolcano]

The shadows still bug me somehow. Need for Speed Shift definitely has the best cockpits. Full stop.

 

[UkHardcore23]

I love the cockpit view in GT5, infact so much so i'd say it was the best yet!

 

[Bluez_Freak]

A real racing driver isn't strapped to the bumper or roof of his car or even levitating 20 foot up in the air behind his car is he ! A real racing driver sees all of the cockpit from inside the car & has his view of the track partially restriced by the car itself, we get to see some of the cockpit in GT5 & even more if you set 2 buttons to look left & right like most competent wheel users do.

First of all the "bumper" view is not bumper view - it actually IS cockpitless view (i.e. same view - no graphics). Check this thread's earlier posts it has been proven with images.

Tell me another thing as well, does a real driver see 4 hands and 2 steering wheels when driving?

Bring your TV between your actual steering wheel and your head without seeing your arms and then I will be the first to admit it's the most realistic view... But the way it is now, it's just not it...

This thread is driving me crazy , wish I never started it...

 

[Luminis]

Tell me another thing as well, does a real driver see 4 hands and 2 steering wheels when driving?

Neither view is particularily realistic in that regard. Your car isn't made from glas so can see and hit every apex perfectly fine. That's a prerogative gamers enjoy. Real drivers? Not so much.
Having an extra steering wheel and an extra pair of arms in front of you isn't realisitic, either.

The only truly realistic view would be cockpit view without the wheel and hands, alongside headtracking.

Actually, to really simulate what you're seing on a track, you'd need a helmet with a small screen instead of a visor, showing exactly what you'd see in the real car, as your motions are being tracked. Would need to be calibrated relative to the position of your steering wheel, though.

So you're left with a simple choice: An unrealistic amount of visual information or an additional set of arms and wheel.
Personally, I'd pick the second choice, but to each their own.

 

[Fausticus]

Does anyone find the interior view better if they narrow it, at least with the narrowest settings you get rid of the arms?

 

[trk29]

COCKPIT ROCKS!

Sorry for yelling...

Cockpit rocks.


Like Amar was saying. Even though I can get better times with bumper IMO cockpit is harder because of the handicap of FOV, which makes the game harder and more enjoyable for me and pushes me to drive better.

 

[ccjcc81]

Cockpit view adds to the immersion of the simulation. I enjoy seeing the interiors of the different vehicles. Bumper cam is drab and boring. No immersion. Before I got my wheel, cockpit view decreased my lap times significantly. The hands on the steering wheel gave me a much better idea of just how much I was over-pressing the analog stick. I don't race in cars that don't have a cockpit view unless game progression forces me to. (truck challenge.) I would care slightly less about the horrendous graphics of the standard cars if they only had a cockpit view. After many faithful years of buying GT titles, I will walk away from the franchise if they can’t get with the times in regard to cockpit view and accident physics.

 

[analog]

The funny thing is that when people try to persuade others bumper cam is the most realistic option they always seem to do so using logical arguments like field of view or that you need to regard your TV-monitor as the windscreen, etc.
Aside from the fact most windscreens don't start a few inches above the tarmac this issue isn't necessarily about logic in the first place.
Sure, part of it is eye-candy (nothing wrong with that by the way) but it's also a gameplay element as the game is experienced differently due to the viewpoint you're using.
Which viewpoint is the most realistic is therefore mostly irrelevant as it's the perception of realism you prefer (or using logical or illogical arguments to convince yourself it's realistic) since all views are basically nothing like sitting in a real car (although in my opinion cockpit view gets the closest).

Strange thing is that I used all viewpoints in the license test and found not one view is the overall winner regarding speed, in some tests I admittingly was much faster using bumper cam, in others interior view or even chase cam.

And most of all I need some visual stimulus as well, not just for achieving the best times I can muster but also because it provides me the most enjoyment, and that's the main reason I play any videogame (something a "glass" cockpit with a few dials just simply doesn't).
If you aren't yet convinced by the insanely detailed and often gorgeous interiors however (and convinced this viewpoint is correctly done), you will perhaps never be.

Don't even care if I'm a few fractions slower due to it though (if that's even the case) although races in the rain are a different matter I must admit.
The bigmouth that I am, I told I would only use interior view in the rain as well and when driving alone on a track or in first place I really do, I didn't however foresee spray......(which makes you essentially blind in some circumstances).

 

[machschnel]

A real racing driver isn't strapped to the bumper or roof of his car or even levitating 20 foot up in the air behind his car is he !

A real racing driver isn't sitting in a car that has a TV screen size "view" either. Nor when he looks straight ahead can he see the A-Pillars.

I assume you use the clutch, wear a helmet, gloves etc while your playing Gran Turismo?

 

[Tommy_861]

A real racing driver isn't sitting in a car that has a TV screen size "view" either. Nor when he looks straight ahead can he see the A-Pillars.

I assume you use the clutch, wear a helmet, gloves etc while your playing Gran Turismo?

I do that all the time, I thought everyone here did!

I also busted off my pause button and shut off my phones, seal the doors and instruct everyone that its QUIET time when I am racing... just as if I was in my race car hehehe.

 

[Jack002]

Does anyone find the interior view better if they narrow it, at least with the narrowest settings you get rid of the arms?

You mean the zoom mode? If you go into the pause menu settings you can set it to normal, partial zoom and full zoom. Any cockpit haters out there should try it. In the end it probably is not very different than what many are calling bumper view (that is said to be cockpit view w/o the cockpit)

I'm still a fan of the above and behind car view, but I am trying out all the options. Most times I want to see who is beside me and what the track up ahead looks like to time my turns. Its the view I used most in GT4 too.

 

[r0llinlacs]

The cockpit view in the 94 McLaren F1 has superb (front) visibility.

 

[Masi_23]

The only way to fully appreciate the cockpit view is by having a triple screen setup.

 

[Captain Roh]

The funny thing is that when people try to persuade others bumper cam is the most realistic option they always seem to do so using logical arguments like field of view or that you need to regard your TV-monitor as the windscreen, etc.
Aside from the fact most windscreens don't start a few inches above the tarmac this issue isn't necessarily about logic in the first place.
Sure, part of it is eye-candy (nothing wrong with that by the way) but it's also a gameplay element as the game is experienced differently due to the viewpoint you're using.
Which viewpoint is the most realistic is therefore mostly irrelevant as it's the perception of realism you prefer (or using logical or illogical arguments to convince yourself it's realistic) since all views are basically nothing like sitting in a real car (although in my opinion cockpit view gets the closest).

Strange thing is that I used all viewpoints in the license test and found not one view is the overall winner regarding speed, in some tests I admittingly was much faster using bumper cam, in others interior view or even chase cam.

And most of all I need some visual stimulus as well, not just for achieving the best times I can muster but also because it provides me the most enjoyment, and that's the main reason I play any videogame (something a "glass" cockpit with a few dials just simply doesn't).
If you aren't yet convinced by the insanely detailed and often gorgeous interiors however (and convinced this viewpoint is correctly done), you will perhaps never be.

Don't even care if I'm a few fractions slower due to it though (if that's even the case) although races in the rain are a different matter I must admit.
The bigmouth that I am, I told I would only use interior view in the rain as well and when driving alone on a track or in first place I really do, I didn't however foresee spray......(which makes you essentially blind in some circumstances).

I quoted Analog for truth, but I also pasted in a discussion I recently had elsewhere in the forum. Its basically this whole thread in a nutshell :

The most realistic view is the one provided by bumper cam. It is not realistic to see two wheels and two pairs of hands (your own and the game's recreation of them) and the game's hands don't even replicate your own moves.

I said this before and I say it again. The TV screen is my windshield, my wheel is THE car's wheel, and my hands are THE driver's hands. When I look to the TV screen I look OUTSIDE.

Everything in cockpit cam, at least the way it is implemented now (even in the most restricted FOV) is nothing but a graphical achievement. Nothing to do with reality.

Been saying that exact same thing for years. 👍

cockpit cams however are cool in PC sims like GTR where I can have 3 screens, delete the wheel, move the camera up close to the dash, and the camera turns with the wheel to look into the corners.

This is the truth

You guys are crazy

lol. Seriously, forget for one second that you dont sit anywhere near the middle of the car for a start. Then go sit in your real car with you hands on the wheel and stare into the middle distance. In your periphery you can see your hands, your wheel, the dash, the roof, everything! Unless you press your nose to the windscreen then bumper cam looks nothing like real life.

Whats more is when you're playing computer games you ARE staring into the middle distance. The screen is much farther away than your windscreen and so when you're in the moment and not thinking of field of view you see pretty much the same as you do in real life. You get shadows, you get shakey head, and you get the enclosed feel of being in a car.

Bumper cam is terrible It allows you to see more of the track than you would EVER be able to in real life. The angle is completely different. The lighting is completely different. The sense of speed is completely different. And the FEELING you get, is completely different.


All that said, it doesnt take a genius to know that every single one of us is completely different too. So while I think you guys are crazy I guess more of you think the same about me.

But I still maintain that while the cockpit view may not be 100% realistic, it is still the closest thing to reality in GT5.


PS: Perhaps we should get back on topic some time soon too

Bumper cam is in the middle of the car though. It's wrongly called bumper cam.

Cockpit cam has laggy steering animation and only rotates a little over 90 degrees left/right. I don't like the box within a box feel with most of the steering wheel shown as well as my steering wheel. Tripple screen on a PC where you can change the view properly works best.

Sorry... I meant in real life.

'Bumper' cam has a central viewpoint. I was refering to the fact that in real life, you dont sit anywhere near the middle of your car. (unless you have a mclaren f1 )

Should of been more clear 👍

With regard to the steering animations I really dont notice. My attention is on the road, just like in real life too. Its the periphery sense thats improtant. You see movement and thats all you need

Thats just an illusion. GT5 doesn't simulate driving down the road in a right hand car and bumper cam so called Mclaren F1 central position.

Regarding peripheral vision. When driving in real life my view is on the road, at best I see a fraction of the steering wheel or top of the dashboard, perhaps a slight view unfocussed view of the bonnet (hood). Using cockpit means drawing a silhouette around the screen and needing to pull your chair closer. Bumper cam feel less inhibited and a little bit more like a full windscreen feel. There's no point modelling a bit dashboard or bonnet, it'd be difficult to get it looking good.

What is the point of having most of steering wheel and dashboard in view then. You'd have to be really close to the screen so that when you look down and see the steering wheel and speedo etc so that it reflects just like what would happen in real life when you look down. GT5 speedo is so fuzzy and jagged though, getting closer doesn't help.

I'd only like cockpit shown if I could look down to another screen and its there in a clear resolution. A big wrap around screen or some 9 screen tuned so that its rendering the surroundings and not just stretching an image on some massive screen set up.

Bumper Cam is behind the windshield and not the front bumper and is the same height as cockpit.

Gahhh you sucked me in

To be honest I dont care that much.. Its just fun to debate. I just got finished writing whats down below and thought whatever man! We both prefer our respective viewpoints 👍

This isnt the place for camera discussion anyway

Thats just an illusion. GT5 doesn't simulate driving down the road in a right hand car and bumper cam so called Mclaren F1 central position.

Really? So if you were to hit the apex on a left OR right corner in 'bumper' cam, it wouldnt be the center of the car at the apex point? How about when you're overtaking? Because in cockpit view I know for sure, when I'm trying to pass somebody, I have less room from my POV if they are on the left of me than on the right of me.

Regarding peripheral vision. When driving in real life my view is on the road, at best I see a fraction of the steering wheel or top of the dashboard, perhaps a slight view unfocussed view of the bonnet.

Thats exactly what I said ..? Sit in your car and stare into the middle distance. You see ALL of those things in your periphery. Your focus is on the road.

What is the point of having most of steering wheel and dashboard in view then.

Just to be clear, I said before I use the 'Narrow' POV. Sometimes 'Narrower' depending on the car. I'm going for realism here incase you didnt get that. The pictures that you're referencing dont relate to me.

Just in case you believe that. Bumper Cam is behind the windshield and not the front bumper and is the same height as cockpit.

Just to go back a bit how do you know its not 'bumper' cam thats the illusion. The car underneath the view could be anywhere, its just coincedence that the HUD elements line up. If you sit still and change views the camera shifts.. You dont just get a cockpit pop into view around 'bumper' cam do you?

Ok double edit:

I got curious and decided to go and experiment. These were my findings and how i did it incase you want to replicate:

So I just picked a random track and found a control point. Autumn ring was my pick, and after starting I saw an apex with a white line and a sign reading Autumn Ring. I put it in 'bumper' cam first. My only point of reference was the guages on the screen, so I drove straight towards the sign directly over the white line at the farthest edge. I did the exact same thing in cockpit cam. Except I didnt use any interior reference points, I just drove a straight line passing the white line in the same place, imagining my face would hit the sign..

Ok so I dont explain it very well, but luckily there's a diagram.

I overlayed my findings like this:

When I took the photos I walked along the straight line I was driving to the sign and turned 180. I pointed my camera to where I imagined the farthest edge of the white line was and pressed the shutter.

The one closer in to the corner is 'bumper' cam. The one farthest out in cockpit.

Its as myself, Douqa and others suspected. For me its conclusive, but feel free to do your own tests.. I was just curious 👍

 

[calan_svc]

WTF?

Why quote half the thread?

For that matter, why is this thread still open?

 

[Luminis]

For that matter, why is this thread still open?

Why should it get closed down?

 

[Gohon]

Why cant we have a windscreen cam?? A cam directly infront of wehere the drivers head would be but on the windscreen so we cant see the inside of the car??

Something lower than roof cam where you can still see the bonnet/wheels of the car. And no where as low as bumper cam

 

[Masi_23]

Something like this would bring justice to the cockpit view

Or this... the Radius 320...

 

[DrSibo]

I've quite enjoyed myself using the cockpit view, despite the view being better in some cars than others... doesn't make much difference to me to using the roof cam on the standard models