Conceptions/Misconceptions Over Cars
- Thread starter Grandea GTR
- 308 comments
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- 27,213
- United Kingdom
I should add that unless I'm actually driving a fast car, I have very little interest in the speed advantage held by modern autos. My interest is almost entirely in what the auto adds to or subtracts from the experience of driving a particular car in context of its character.
Sometimes it doesn't add to a car - I've never driven an automatic Miata, and aside from curiosity and the fact I'd drive basically anything put in front of me., I've little interest in doing so.
But, at risk of name-dropping, I cannot imagine how a manual gearbox would improve the experience of driving say, a Rolls-Royce Wraith. An auto is entirely in character with the car - shifting my own gears in one of those wouldn't just be out of character, it would actively spoil the experience. It's no surprise that R-R doesn't even offer any way of selecting your own ratios in that either - there are no paddles, no setting on the delicate little shifter stalk for moving up and down the gears.
Other cars are similar, to varying degrees. A modern Range Rover would also be spoiled by a manual. I can't think of a modern Jag that would feel better as a manual - possibly the F-Type, though frankly I quite enjoyed the auto in that. And yet I've absolutely no desire to drive an automatic E-Type as the manual in that perfectly suits its character. My own Insight is a borderline, I reckon - mine is manual and I like it, and in that particular car it aids economy. But I'd be curious to try the CVT as I suspect the seamless transmission would be in-character with the high-tech feel of the car.
I think I see the auto/manual thing as quite black and white. For me, a car either "suits" an auto or a manual, or it doesn't. There's no hazy line where a car is rendered a better vehicle to drive simply by virtue of having to stir a stick between the seats.
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I'd say the issue is fanatics in one segment of car fanship or another.
The misconception that modern "muscle cars"/sport cars shouldn't have to worry about braking or turning with 707 hp*
*707 hp is just a random number you know, plucked it from the aether -satirical. However, it goes for all cars in the category
EDIT: Also wanted to say that @Azure Flare and @Zenith seemed to cover the best parts on the first page.
The misconception that modern "muscle cars"/sport cars shouldn't have to worry about braking or turning with 707 hp*
*707 hp is just a random number you know, plucked it from the aether -satirical. However, it goes for all cars in the category
EDIT: Also wanted to say that @Azure Flare and @Zenith seemed to cover the best parts on the first page.
- 8,100
- Guelph, Ontario
Challengers only being good in a straight line is a major misconception...
Those are all heavily modified race cars, the same thing could be said for a cube van if you throw enough money at it.
- 7,602
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I was on vacation a few months ago and for the first time in a while had to drive around in someone else's car. It was an auto with no manual mode and it felt completely alien to me, even though I learned how to drive on such a system. The lack of ability to change gears for me, just takes away from the whole experience. I think it would be the same in a RR, so I understand where Wolfe is coming from.
No amount of majority opinion is going to turn opinion into anything but opinion. The vast majority of people like autos in a lot of situations, but some people just consider shifting part of driving.
@homeforsummer -- The auto/manual thing is quite black and white to me, too. Manual offers the control I crave. Automatics/DSGs, in spite of everything else, never will. There's no hazy line where an automatic could be preferable simply by virtue of befitting a car's character or purpose. 
Or how about this -- in the short term, an automatic/DSG could be everything I need. But I would hate to live with one as my daily driver. If you look at my overall tastes, you might conclude that I'm drawn to cars that "suit a manual" anyway. The Lotus/Caterham Seven is a poster car for what I like.
Or how about this -- in the short term, an automatic/DSG could be everything I need. But I would hate to live with one as my daily driver. If you look at my overall tastes, you might conclude that I'm drawn to cars that "suit a manual" anyway. The Lotus/Caterham Seven is a poster car for what I like.
- 27,213
- United Kingdom
With respect, borrowed vacation car experience can't really be compared with a Rolls-Royce.
And I reserve the right to think anyone who would genuinely want manual control over the gears in a modern R-R is just a little insane...
It's probably worth noting that I've never actually owned an automatic myself and very few cars on my "must buy" list have one either.@homeforsummer -- The auto/manual thing is quite black and white to me, too. Manual offers the control I crave. Automatics/DSGs, in spite of everything else, never will. There's no hazy line where an automatic could be preferable simply by virtue of befitting a car's character or purpose.
Or how about this -- in the short term, an automatic/DSG could be everything I need. But I would hate to live with one as my daily driver. If you look at my overall tastes, you might conclude that I'm drawn to cars that "suit a manual" anyway. The Lotus/Caterham Seven is a poster car for what I like.
However, this is one issue it's clear we'll never see eye-to-eye on so there's nowhere further we can really take this.
To steer it back in the direction of the thread subject though, I'd say a common automotive misconception is that electric vehicles (single-speed transmissions and all) are characterless. That one is definitely bunkum.
Incidentally, I've driven an EV with a proper old-school manual transmission. That was lots of fun. In context (an electric-converted '63 Beetle), definitely adds to the experience. But if someone told me the Leaf or the e-Golf would be better with stick-shift I'd tell them to sod off
- 3,475
- Vilnius
Because you totally need 5 gears to stay in that tight powerband of an electric motor!To steer it back in the direction of the thread subject though, I'd say a common automotive misconception is that electric vehicles (single-speed transmissions and all) are characterless. That one is definitely bunkum.
Incidentally, I've driven an EV with a proper old-school manual transmission. That was lots of fun. In context (an electric-converted '63 Beetle), definitely adds to the experience. But if someone told me the Leaf or the e-Golf would be better with stick-shift I'd tell them to sod off
- 23,972
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
@homeforsummer -- The auto/manual thing is quite black and white to me, too. Manual offers the control I crave. Automatics/DSGs, in spite of everything else, never will. There's no hazy line where an automatic could be preferable simply by virtue of befitting a car's character or purpose.
Or how about this -- in the short term, an automatic/DSG could be everything I need. But I would hate to live with one as my daily driver. If you look at my overall tastes, you might conclude that I'm drawn to cars that "suit a manual" anyway. The Lotus/Caterham Seven is a poster car for what I like.
My car is a DSG. Even though there are more things that irritate me about it than any 'benefits' it has for daily driving, which is what 90% of what my driving consists of. But the DSG suits the car down to the ground. A manual version would be a lesser car IMO. There are times when I crave some control of the clutch when it comes to pulling away from standstill, and I hate the way it 'predicts' how you are driving and decides what kind of throttle response you'll be needing next. But. A manual version just wouldn't make the most of the engine's flexibility.
- 7,602
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
I'd expect a fair bit of difference between the two, but it wasn't the borrowed car that I didn't like, it was the lack of control over the transmission. At first I didn't even know what to do with my hand. It would probably be the same feeling that most feel when going from one-hand side drive to the other. You could give me my favorite car in the world and it probably wouldn't feel right if I had to sit on the wrong side while driving it.
Fair enough, I myself wouldn't pay money for a Rolls, unless I was guaranteed a return on investment when selling it. Owning one simply doesn't interest me. I suppose I'd try one to be sure if offered just to be sure, but I don't see much chance of me changing my mind with so many other cars out there.
McLaren
Premium
- 45,498
- Texas
I don't see anything fun about a manual that ends up fighting you every step of the way, throwing cars out gear or refusing to cooperate that will eventually just kick the bucket after a couple more uses. I think you're letting your desire to have a manual over anything cloud your judgement with that sort of statement.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Actually, with modern radial construction, the link between inflation pressure, tire shape and contact patch isn't as constant or linear as it was in the bias-ply days. With stiffer sidewalls, square shoulders and softer rubber compounds, you can build a wider tire to have a bigger contact patch than you can achieve with a narrower one.
Still, it's true that you don't necessarily want a wider tire for more contact patch area.
And it's fun to mess with people inquiring about best tire sizes for performance by telling them to go out and buy wider wheels to go with their stock tires, instead.
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RE: Hellcat: According to testers, it really is mostly a straightline special. It's got tremendous grip and good brakes, but it just isn't as good on the racetrack as some of the lower trim variants or competitors like the Z28.
Who cares. POOOOOWAAAAAH!
It's called "throwing it in neutral." Also, not even manuals produce zero slip at all times... and even with a good driver, can't provide as little zero slip as many modern automatics.
Many of the sportier automatics nowadays will allow you to make any shift that won't kill the engine or grenade it by over-revving. Don't know why you would want more than that, except to prove a point.
As I've opined before, the clutch is a crutch meant to take up the slack for poorly rev-matched shifts. The benefits provided during launch and drifting are secondary. While I love me a good clutched system, I don't see it as the be-all and end-all of motoring, and not completely necessary for a good car. This is speaking as one who went nearly a month with a borked release bearing, driving a car without using the clutch.
This is not to say your preference is wrong. Indeed, oftentimes the manual variant of a car is both the most fun and the most practical. But it wouldn't hurt to get out and try something new. Some of these new boxes will definitely surprise you.
Still, it's true that you don't necessarily want a wider tire for more contact patch area.
And it's fun to mess with people inquiring about best tire sizes for performance by telling them to go out and buy wider wheels to go with their stock tires, instead.
-
RE: Hellcat: According to testers, it really is mostly a straightline special. It's got tremendous grip and good brakes, but it just isn't as good on the racetrack as some of the lower trim variants or competitors like the Z28.
Who cares. POOOOOWAAAAAH!
It's called "throwing it in neutral."
Also, not even manuals produce zero slip at all times... and even with a good driver, can't provide as little zero slip as many modern automatics.Many of the sportier automatics nowadays will allow you to make any shift that won't kill the engine or grenade it by over-revving. Don't know why you would want more than that, except to prove a point.
As I've opined before, the clutch is a crutch meant to take up the slack for poorly rev-matched shifts. The benefits provided during launch and drifting are secondary. While I love me a good clutched system, I don't see it as the be-all and end-all of motoring, and not completely necessary for a good car. This is speaking as one who went nearly a month with a borked release bearing, driving a car without using the clutch.
This is not to say your preference is wrong. Indeed, oftentimes the manual variant of a car is both the most fun and the most practical. But it wouldn't hurt to get out and try something new. Some of these new boxes will definitely surprise you.
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- 40,808
So 8 inch wheels on the Seville, got it.
I could put Pilot Sport Cups (or some similar semi-slick like what appears to be on that black Challenger) on a 1984 Corvette and it would fly through corners way faster than any newer Corvette would ever dream of, all the way up until the glass roof shattered from the stress and the chassis twisted in half.
That doesn't mean it handles very well compared to a C7. It means it has more grip when you put barely legal tires on it. It is not a misconception that the Challenger handles poorer than its immediate competitors; and it's not a misconception that Dodge hasn't had as much interest in correcting its handling foibles as its immediate competitors have from their initial launches.
Also not helping its popular perception is that it directly shares styling (and, if you want to be particularly cynical, basic design goals) with a classic car so poorly designed from the factory that taking it up to the speeds it was capable of with bigger engines once infamously caused this:
Challengers only being good in a straight line is a major misconception...
I could put Pilot Sport Cups (or some similar semi-slick like what appears to be on that black Challenger) on a 1984 Corvette and it would fly through corners way faster than any newer Corvette would ever dream of, all the way up until the glass roof shattered from the stress and the chassis twisted in half.
That doesn't mean it handles very well compared to a C7. It means it has more grip when you put barely legal tires on it. It is not a misconception that the Challenger handles poorer than its immediate competitors; and it's not a misconception that Dodge hasn't had as much interest in correcting its handling foibles as its immediate competitors have from their initial launches.
Also not helping its popular perception is that it directly shares styling (and, if you want to be particularly cynical, basic design goals) with a classic car so poorly designed from the factory that taking it up to the speeds it was capable of with bigger engines once infamously caused this:
@homeforsummer -- I think the i8 could use a manual. 
@McLaren -- The cars I've driven which fit the description I gave weren't malfunctional, just worn out. A transmission that works is better than one that doesn't. I turned down a '90s Passat before buying the Subaru because the VW wouldn't shift into 5th gear (among other issues).
@niky -- The key word is autonomy. Throwing the transmission into neutral isn't the same as having the link between the engine & transmission completely under your control at all times. I'd rather not ask for "permission" for a gearchange, whether it functionally makes a difference or not. Is it rational? Not terribly so, but I prefer to have that autonomy. Computerized intervention drives me crazy -- including ABS.
Anyway, I certainly wouldn't turn down an opportunity to try a new DSG or the PDK, if such an opportunity presented itself.
@McLaren -- The cars I've driven which fit the description I gave weren't malfunctional, just worn out. A transmission that works is better than one that doesn't. I turned down a '90s Passat before buying the Subaru because the VW wouldn't shift into 5th gear (among other issues).
@niky -- The key word is autonomy. Throwing the transmission into neutral isn't the same as having the link between the engine & transmission completely under your control at all times. I'd rather not ask for "permission" for a gearchange, whether it functionally makes a difference or not. Is it rational? Not terribly so, but I prefer to have that autonomy. Computerized intervention drives me crazy -- including ABS.
Anyway, I certainly wouldn't turn down an opportunity to try a new DSG or the PDK, if such an opportunity presented itself.
- 2,364
- Albuquerque, NM
- BloodDiamondPant
Challengers only being good in a straight line is a major misconception...
They are on a track but are they Competitive? I would assume SCCA T1 class?
- 5,065
- Fort Worth
- That_sneaky_azN
Adding lips and/or a spoiler to your car makes you a ricer.
- 1,591
- Under the Hood
Adding lips and/or a spoiler to your car makes you a ricer.
Debatable.
Definition of 'ricer' is "someone who cosmetically modifies their car to give a false impression of high performance, but is not actually capable of it." Fit a full on aero kit to a stock 1989 Civic and you are very much a ricer.
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- 4,543
- Bay Area, CA
- Zenith113
Adding lips and/or a spoiler to your car makes you a ricer.
Adding lips and a spoiler to your Civic makes you a ricer.
- 23,972
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I don't find 'ricing' any more offensive than hardparking.
- 15,389
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
According to Urban Dictionary:
"The act of owning a Japanese car riddled with roll cages/high-end race suspension/expensive forged wheels, and never taking it to the track. These people frequent places like honda-tech.com appearance/cosmetic forum, and can often be found arguing about rotas and other parts that they don't do 🤬 with anyway."
- 23,972
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I don't think it's just the JDM scene thats effected by this.
Doodle
Premium
- 5,924
- Maryland
- DoodleAM
- DoodleAM
I'll put one of mine.
Let's say, a subcompact car.
"This car is small, I'll die if I get into a crash!"
Gets a massive SUV or Pickup instead.
This is exactly what my mom is like.
- 9,884
- Carthage, TN
- race_emhard
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