Confederate Flag

[Formula1269]

I'm born and raised in NJ,I served three years as a Tank Driver in the US ARMY.I lived in GA,NC for a while and there are people who are proud to come from where they come from.there's nothing wrong with that

Nothing wrong at all with being proud of where you come from, but why does it have to be a southern thing. Anyway, southern pride doesn't really refer to being proud of coming from the south or a southern state. It actually refers to the English settlers who came over here and tried to establish themselves as gentry who proudly owned slaves in the predominantly southern states. Nothing really to be proud of when you know what "southern pride" really means. Like a lot of other unsavory events, they don't teach that in U.S. history classes though.

 

[TenEightyOne]

When the U.S. broke away from England, slavery was legal in all 13 states. The American flag from that time has evolved into the American Flag of today. You can buy that original American flag at any number of retailers online and in bricks and mortar locations across the earth. The English had not practiced domestic slavery for several hundred years so one could easily argue the War of Independence was a war in part for the free practice of slavery and the establishment of an independent nation that approved of slavery. I don't see how it differs from the Confederate battle flag recently in the news from the standpoint of reminding people of slavery.

The US broke away from Britain, you're confusing things a little... and slavery was only abolished in Britain in 1833 after a history of slavery of one kind or another that went back about 2,000 years.

The difference is that the Confederate states wished to continue segregation and oppression. Nobody's denying that slavery had gone on for a long time in various places... but some people still fought to keep it in place. It was actually only about 50 years ago that the final segregationist laws were overturned in the South, no?

 

[Johnnypenso]

The US broke away from Britain, you're confusing things a little... and slavery was only abolished in Britain in 1833 after a history of slavery of one kind or another that went back about 2,000 years.

The difference is that the Confederate states wished to continue segregation and oppression. Nobody's denying that slavery had gone on for a long time in various places... but some people still fought to keep it in place. It was actually only about 50 years ago that the final segregationist laws were overturned in the South, no?

Slavery was abolished in the Empire as a whole in 1833. In England slavery was effectively eliminated in 1772 with the Somerset Case.

The differences you allude to are accurate, but it doesn't change the fact that the original U.S. flag was adopted by a bunch of slave owners into a new country that supported slavery. It's more than enough connection to slavery IMO to cause epic outrage on social media and bring forth a campaign to eliminate the original American flag from all retail outlets and call anyone that supports it bad names and blackball them on social media. It would be the pc thing to do.

 

[Garage13]

yes that is true johnny but if you had noticed that there is slavery(ie sex slavery that's worldwide) but there is such a thing as economic slavery.
Formula i agree there is alot of things that the us educational system doesn't teach you.here is a prime example,i ordered chinese food today and the driver was listening to a us civics cd about the bill of rights

 

[TenEightyOne]

Slavery was abolished in the Empire as a whole in 1833. In England slavery was effectively eliminated in 1772 with the Somerset Case.

It was Rex with Somersett ex parte, and you misunderstand the judgement. The purported judgement (actually from a pro-abolition newspaper, the reading itself was oral) said that no slave could be taken within Britain, not that slavery could not be exercised there (that's all in your source). In fact slavery continued after that time, most often in domestic service. Mansfield later said that all he judged was that "all that he decided was that a slave could not be forcibly removed from England against his will".

The differences you allude to are accurate, but it doesn't change the fact that the original U.S. flag was adopted by a bunch of slave owners into a new country that supported slavery. It's more than enough connection to slavery IMO to cause epic outrage on social media and bring forth a campaign to eliminate the original American flag from all retail outlets and call anyone that supports it bad names and blackball them on social media. It would be the pc thing to do.

Yes, and it's now a museum piece. Just like the Confederate flag is becoming.

 

[Danoff]

yes that is true johnny but if you had noticed that there is slavery(ie sex slavery that's worldwide) but there is such a thing as economic slavery.

Nope. Slavery = force.

 

[Liquid]

Just by the by, slavery being officially abolished in the UK was one of those New Labour laws in the 2000s when they tidied up the statue book a little. It was discontinued as an official practice many, many years prior, of course; by 1834 all slaves in the UK were emancipated but interestingly, none were offered compensation but £20 million was set aside to compensate slave owners, many of whom were Church of England clergy.

Interesting point about the thirteen colonies, their slave practicies and what that flag meant/means. It's always been something which sticks out to me when dealing with the founding of a 'perfect' new nation.

 

[Robin]

We all know what this flag evolved into and this flag was flown while the first President of the entire United States, who became a slave owner at the age of 11, owned slaves. In fact he owned more than 100. Oh dear, now what do we do?

That's the thing, go back far enough and most flags have some sort of tainted past. You see the Japanese rising sun flag used on a lot of things and it has it's fair share of injustices.

 

[SJC ALPHA]

That's the thing, go back far enough and most flags have some sort of tainted past. You see the Japanese rising sun flag used on a lot of things and it has it's fair share of injustices.

Yup, some local Councils in England tell people to not show the Cross of St George so as not to upset the Muslim community.

 

[Famine]

Yup, some local Councils in England tell people to not show the Cross of St George so as not to upset the Muslim community.

No they don't.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yup, some local Councils in England tell people to not show the Cross of St George so as not to upset the Muslim community.

Rubbish, absolute rubbish, it's a BF Facebook story like "Tescos won't let in our brave lads in uniform!".

 

[SJC ALPHA]

A couple of my neighbours were told to take down their flags, local Taxi drivers were told to remove them from their vehicles, and told they can be shown when something like an England football game is on etc.
This has happened and ammicable agreements met.

 

[Famine]

A couple of my neighbours were told to take down their flags

By whom? When? What evidence? Who said it was "so as not to upset the Muslim community"?

local Taxi drivers were told to remove them from their vehicles

If it's by their company, that's fine. Otherwise the same questions as above.

 

[Dotini]

Retract and Delete post!

 

[SJC ALPHA]

If I knew how to do links I would, I'm only on Basic with the computer course.
I apologise if I come across as provocative or trying to stir things up, I had no intention of doing that, so as you feel I should cancel my account I shall do so. Sorry an goodbye.

 

[Famine]

If I knew how to do links I would, I'm only on Basic with the computer course.

Copy the link from the bar at the top and paste it into the text box. The forum software does everything itself.

I apologise if I come across as provocative or trying to stir things up, I had no intention of doing that, so as you feel I should cancel my account I shall do so. Sorry an goodbye.

While cancelling your account is not actually possible in the first place, @Dotini is not anything to do with the staff at the site and if it turns out that you no longer use this site as a result of his idiotic message, he won't be using the site any longer either.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

This is what I think of when I see people displaying the flag in question:



What it technically stood for during the civil war is irrelevant; it's clear that in today's world it means different things to different people. But a lot of people see it in exactly the way it is portrayed in the film, and it's important for those who think that displaying this flag is cool to understand that no matter what their intentions are there is a relatively large portion of the population who will judge you based on that decision and will see you as racist, uneducated, violent, and stupid, despite the fact that you almost certainly aren't. Because even if you aren't, making the conscious choice to display this flag means that you have bought into that culture and that you know that some people will see you like that, and that you don't care.

 

[RocZX]

This is taking it to far..........

 

[Joey D]

I would take almost anything posted on Instagram/Twitter/whatever that is with a grain of salt.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What it technically stood for during the civil war is irrelevant; it's clear that in today's world it means different things to different people. But a lot of people see it in exactly the way it is portrayed in the film, and it's important for those who think that displaying this flag is cool to understand that no matter what their intentions are there is a relatively large portion of the population who will judge you based on that decision and will see you as racist, uneducated, violent, and stupid, despite the fact that you almost certainly aren't. Because even if you aren't, making the conscious choice to display this flag means that you have bought into that culture and that you know that some people will see you like that, and that you don't care.

So basically the truth of something is irrelevant, all that matters is how people feel about something, even if they are totally wrong? What will you do when they come for the Union Jack?

 

[squadops]

Welcome to liberalism 101.

 

[Joel]

Well yes, shockingly when we're talking about symbols, the context in which they're displayed matters.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

So basically the truth of something is irrelevant, all that matters is how people feel about something, even if they are totally wrong?

Yes. Because symbols don't just represent one thing; they mean many things to many people. To tell them that they're simply wrong is ignorant and insensitive.

 

[LeMansAid]

I see fear of a slippery s-word.

 

[McLaren]

This is taking it to far..........

It's already been taken too far. There is a video on the web where a bunch of blacks in the middle of a busy street start throwing rocks at a guy in his truck because he has a confederate flag in the bed. One man jumps into the bed, & steals the flag as the man tries to drive away. And of course, some dumb ass screams "Worldstar baby!"

I hadn't realized a difference in views over a flag meant the "oppressed" side had a right to use violence.

 

[InSight]

Why confederate flag ban sets a dangerous precedent. Next thing you know, liberals will be blowing up historical monuments like ISIS or talibans, because it offends their radical ideology:

 

[TenEightyOne]

I hadn't realized a difference in views over a flag meant the "oppressed" side had a right to use violence.

It doesn't, they're just as wrong. Is "oppressed" the right word to use? I'm against the formal use of the flag but I wouldn't say I'd ever been a victim of oppression through its use...

Why confederate flag ban sets a dangerous precedent.

I wasn't aware there was a ban? All I'd heard is that SC governmental buildings weren't going to fly it and that several large companies are exercising their 1st Amendment right in not selling items bearing it?

Where did you read about a ban?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes. Because symbols don't just represent one thing; they mean many things to many people. To tell them that they're simply wrong is ignorant and insensitive.

Really? So the truth is irrelevant, only one's feelings on the subject matter, and pointing out the truth or correcting that error is ignorant and insensitive?

You conveniently ignored the second part of my question. So what about the millions of Christians for example, who might be offended by the rainbow flag lighting up the White House? How about people who see the American flag as representing 240 years of slavery and the ensuing oppression of black people? I'm pretty sure some of the 100's of thousands Aboriginal peoples of Canada that suffered through the injustices and criminal behaviour of the residential school system might object to our flag as well. What do we do about that? These things are real by the way, so they should be even more important right?

 

[Dennisch]

/flamesuit on.

I just ordered this as a new roofliner for my pickup.

I was searching for one with HILLBILLY but alas.

/flamesuit.

Commence your hatred towards my rednekkidness.

 

[Sanji Himura]

It's already been taken too far. There is a video on the web where a bunch of blacks in the middle of a busy street start throwing rocks at a guy in his truck because he has a confederate flag in the bed. One man jumps into the bed, & steals the flag as the man tries to drive away. And of course, some dumb ass screams "Worldstar baby!"

I hadn't realized a difference in views over a flag meant the "oppressed" side had a right to use violence.

Add on a murder of a black man by suspected Black Panthers for carrying the flag as well, and a KKK and Black Panther protest (that took place at the same time) over the flag.

I mean pick your poison here.