Convince me I should change to Traction Control 0

[Grimm6Jack]

TCS 0 is faster... However, you are more prone to mistakes, since you don't just mash the throttle and the TC kicks in to make you avoid wheel spin.

However, to have a very precise throttle (And brake) inputs, you need pedals or to use the right analog stick in the controller. The triggers can also work but they are not as precise as the right analog stick. Forget about using the X and square buttons...

Sometimes it's not just throttle inputs, but staying on the right gear (usually a higher gear) to avoid that wheel spin. All top players in this game use TCS 0 for a reason.


ABS off is a different matter, even for the top of the crop players, it's incredibly difficult to consistently adjust the right amount of braking to stop the car and not lock the wheels (destroying your tyres and ofc, making you overall slower in the process).

 

[Bullwinkle]

ABS off is a different matter, even for the top of the crop players, it's incredibly difficult to consistently adjust the right amount of braking to stop the car and not lock the wheels (destroying your tyres and ofc, making you overall slower in the process).

I took a few days off and came back to the game and for some reason ABS was turned off and I didn’t realize it. My cars were just flying right on through the turns like they were on ice. I think it may have been a couple of the Hagerty’s cars I just bought and I was swearing a blue streak at how many credits I just wasted. I don’t know how long it was before I realized it was the ABS, but I’ll never turn that off (on purpose), ever! It takes twice the braking distance to avoid locking up and I just don’t see any benefit to that.

 

[MidnightRun85]

The triggers can also work but they are not as precise as the right analog stick. Forget about using the X and square buttons...

Agree with this. I've had this set-up for ages now and I won't go back to anything else. I use the sticks for stop/go and left/right basically, makes sense to me.

 

[DeolTheBeast]

You'll literally get faster by a good 0.5++ seconds on any given circuit ... if you are competitive on Sport Mode you will see the benefits once you have it nailed down.

I took TCS off on GT4 as a kid and never looked back, obviously the implementation of it is much more complex on GT7 but the bottom line is...you will get quicker!

 

[mwoodski]

The only car that I've seen that actually requires TC1 or else you're gonna have A Bad Time™ is the Porsche VGT.

 

[NJ72]

My 2c - it's a game. If you find it more consistent and enjoyable with TCS on then leave it on.

If you're looking for tenths of a second then I'm 99% certain (unless you're an alien level driver already) you'll find more time through practice than from removing/changing any assists.

 

[Faldrath]

As a PS4 controller player who is new to the GT series (although I've been playing PC racing sims since the Geoff Crammond days), I used to just leave TC at the default 3... Until it was time to do the Laguna Seca S license. It was then that I started to notice I had to find more time in my laps, and after a lot of fiddling, turning TC off ended up being the solution. And then, to my surprise, it ended up being the solution also for S10 (although I needed to also turn on counter steering assist for that). Then I just kept on using TC0 now that I'm tackling the circuit experiences and the missions, and it's been fine.

That being said, I think tyre choice also matters in the decision: less grippy tyres sometimes make me turn on TC again, the main example being the Trial Mountain 1 hour mission with the BAC Mono on sport tyres, I just couldn't drive that without TC...

 

[TonyLomas]

I can't add anything to this conversation, other than thanks. I've learnt a lot just from reading the replies.

 

[Marty_Debiru]

Don't know if it's been mentioned already or not, but with TC 0 turbos cars will spool way faster, specially modded ones with bigger and laggy turbos.
Reason is with TC even at 1, the driver will step off of the throtlle, and even one second will mean loosing boost and having to build it up again.
I realize with an R32 GT-R I could lap Tsukuba 1 second faster without TC, could be faster with more control.

 

[Nielsen]

Controlling traction entirely via throttle input is much more rewarding than having the game do it for you.

 

[LSFDRX]

The only car that I've seen that actually requires TC1 or else you're gonna have A Bad Time™ is the Porsche VGT.

There isn't a single car in the game that requires TC, there are just harder ones to manage. There are many differences, quirks or whatever between them all, but there isn't one that can't be driven quickly without TC. The Porsche VGT is a wild car and very oversteer prone. If you give it too much throttle coming out of a corner, or even when straight sometimes, the rear will want to come around. That's why you don't just plant it at slow speeds, you modulate the throttle and learn how the car needs to be handled. It's got 1000hp. Once you get into "second" gear the thing is a rocket.

I've heard that the Ferraris are impossible, the GT350R is impossible, the Mangusta etc... but I've had fun with them all, and have literally never turned TC on in any driving game since I was a kid (with the exception of TC1 in sport mode on grid starts).

The difficulty is the fun part. Getting good at driving a hard to wrangle car is exciting. If you turn TC on, it's just putting a band-aid on that prevents you from learning how to do it on your own.

Controlling traction entirely via throttle input is much more rewarding than having the game do it for you.

This is pretty much the gist of it.

There is no car, no combo, no tire compound, or any event that requires TC. There are many of us that never use it and don't have issues. It's just something that takes time and effort to do. You adjust for the scenario you're in. A Miata on CH isn't going to be the same drive as a R8 GR3 on RH. This is one of the most fun aspects of this, and any game that's hard enough to be rewarding.

I've heard a lot of "it feels slow" comments about TC0... and yeah, sometimes it does! But often in racing slow is fast. Being controlled is better than loose, and leads to better corner exits, which is almost always the fastest way to drive. Sometimes we all need to check up and slow down a bit to recalibrate ourselves to the task at hand. You're not always going to feel like you're being shot out of a cannon, and you're not always going to get it right in the first shot. Patience.

In the end, do what's best for you! If you're frustrated with TC off and it only leads to you not having fun, then it may not be right for you. At the end of the day it's a game and it should be fun... not a waste of time or something that makes you angry to play it. But don't be confused, TC is never necessary. TC0 is faster and very much doable, it just takes practice and patience. If that sounds good to you, go for it. I promise it's a whole bunch more rewarding and faster than using it.

 

[Bullwinkle]

Does anyone have any input about how effective better pedals are? Are they called “load cell” or something like that? Do they make a difference?

 

[ketiux]

Hello Bullwinkle,

Would it possible for you to share some footage of your gameplay without TC? This will help us to give you much better tips. If not, no biggie.

What are the advantages of TC-0?

• With TC-0, you fully control the throttle on corner exit which is where you gain the most time (we will get to that in a bit), giving you a thrill when you get it right.
• With FR or MR cars, there are bigger margins to gain on corner exit.
• You are faster compared to someone not using TC.
• More liberty tuning your car since you can feel the car under acceleration.

What are the disadvantages?

• With TC-1+, you clearly feel how the cars "brakes" for a split second trying to regain traction on corner exit even when you do not want it. This is very noticeable the more horse power and torque a car has.
• On race trim, you end up losing several seconds (10+ laps).
• On circuits that have chicanes or lots of slow corners, you will depend too much on TC assistance, leading you to increase it.

How do I master it?
Let's start with a simple case. Use a car that is FR that is relatively low on power. Suggestions will be a Nissan Fairlady Z, Toyota Trueno '83, or a Toyota GR86. Out of those 3, the Trueno will be a good example.

• Laguna Seca has plenty of slow to mid speed corners which is a good testing bed (T1, T2, and final corner are low speed with T3, T4, and final sector being mid speed).
• To control your car (because you will have TC-0), you must adapt to the change. This means not smashing the gas pedal on every corner exit. Yes, you will get frustrated plenty but you will get better. We promise.
• If the car easily spins out on corner exit:

1. Lower acceleration on your LSD. Start with a really low value (10 for example) and increase it in steps of 3-4 until you start losing control of the car (spins out). Do a few laps.
2. Increase front frequency and lower rear frequency. This will help on corner exit because the nose and the rear of the car will be more stable. Again, increase/decrease in steps of 4 and test it.
3. Most importantly, you have to apply the gas pedal in 2 ways: either you tap tap tap the gas in order to simulate TC on corner exit (to stabilize your car) or you apply even throttle on exit corner. Applying even, progressive throttle is harder but gives you better stability on exit. As you get better and better, you will start feeling the need to give it 100% throttle earlier and earlier coming out of a turn which is good, and you will find the limits of the car and your driving. If you are finding yourself constantly spinning out, car is difficult to control, oversteer... you are overdriving. This is a slow process since you mentioned that this is your first racing game but once you find the sweet spot, you will know how to apply that with another car (MR's for example).
4. Tire choice is subjective since you might race with racing tires in addition to giving you the most grip but perhaps is better to start with a low powered car on less grippy tires (sport softs maybe?).

Here, I recorded a small video as an example. No traction control used and sport tires. Pay attention to how I manage my throttle on each corner exit. Sometimes I tap tap tap the gas pedal to stabilize the car, other times I evenly and progressively accelerate:

With regards of having a better pedal set... in my experience, is better to have a better brake pedal than a gas pedal. I have used anywhere from $40 wheels with 2 pedals to $300 wheels. The difference (at least for me) is while braking, not accelerating. I can also post a small video of the difference in having TC turned on if you think that would help

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

This isn't meant to be as confrontational as the title sounds, but I'm trying to learn how to turn all the assists off and it's been less-than-productive so far (I keep ABS on because I lose way too much time braking without it). People insist that it will be faster because this is where you can scrub off tenths of a second from your time, but my lap times are going waaaay up. I know I'll learn and improve, but it's hard to feel like it is worth it when the FFB keeps changing and the physics seems to be a little off. But I'd like you to explain to my why I should make the change. What are the benefits? What are some points I need to pay attention to in order to improve?

After driving many hours on the Sardegna road circuit, here are some of my observations so far, in no particular order:

• Is it my imagination, or is braking distance reduced with TC0?
• Likewise, and this may not be my imagination, is it much easier to trail brake with TC0?
• It seems like less speed is scrubbed off on high speed turns with TC0 because there are no adjustments to power.
• My weakest link so far is coming out of tight turns. The ones on Sardegna that are less than 90 degrees are killing me. I feel like I have to really baby the throttle coming out of them, and that is where I'm losing the most time (to the tune of several seconds a lap). Will I ever regain those lost seconds?
• I tend to go with higher differential settings for stability. Will lower LSD settings counteract the tendency to spin out?
• Just a thought: does the gearing help with not spinning out? If I make 1st a little longer will it ease up on how fast the power is applied? Or keep it low and drop 2nd gear lower and short shift instead?
• Does Turbo vs. Naturally Aspirated matter? In other words, does the turbo lag kicking in late make it harder to control the throttle coming out of a tight corner? Am I more likely to spin out with a turbo?
• I run the Fanatec DD Pro wheel (and I think it has the CSL pedals). Will the quality of pedals make it easier to feather the throttle? I can't remember what it's called right now, but the higher quality pedals have more realistic resistance to give better feedback. Does this make a significant difference in throttle control? Or is that just for the experts?

Please feel free to correct or add to my observations. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Edit: New questions as I think of them. Also, please give me some kind of useful information in your comments, or at least explain your reasoning.

LSD can be very helpful for us lead foot's lower values will help traction look through https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praianos-tunes-settings-for-gt7.404868/ and see what he uses for certain cars you might have and can test

 

[FOG-Smokebeer]

Does anyone have any input about how effective better pedals are? Are they called “load cell” or something like that? Do they make a difference?

A Load cell is just a pressure pad under the brake it measures braking by pressure applied not distance travelled people find the muscle memory easier to judge with pressure more then distance it wouldn't turn you into Senna overnight

 

[GBalao888]

On most race cars, it will be absolutely necessary to turn off traction control as keeping it on will kill your speed as you enter and exit corners, and will in turn, allow you to improve your driving skills, especially with the fact that you'll be managing your throttle and steering inputs (sometimes it even allows you to corner faster).

As for road cars, try to see how it fits you best, some cars will drive as if they're trying to kill you with traction control off.

 

[kilesa4568]

Does anyone have any input about how effective better pedals are? Are they called “load cell” or something like that? Do they make a difference?

They make a big difference in braking consistency and if you're in it for the long run, they're an essential upgrade. As long as you have something solid to bolt them to.

When it comes to the overly intrusive TC in GT, trust your right foot to do the job instead.

 

[Bullwinkle]

First off, thanks for all the great info!!! This helps a lot and confirms much of what I’ve discovered on my own.

More liberty tuning your car since you can feel the car under acceleration.

The bummer right now is that PD keeps killing my FFB so I don’t know what I’m supposed to feel anymore! I have the Fanatec DD Pro and it’s one of the wheels that have been neutered in the last two updates.

Increase front frequency and lower rear frequency. This will help on corner exit because the nose and the rear of the car will be more stable. Again, increase/decrease in steps of 4 and test it.

Are you talking compression or expansion? I’ve watched Harmonic’s videos on suspension tuning but even he admits at this point it’s a crap shoot when the updates keep changing the physics and FFB.

Would it possible for you to share some footage of your gameplay without TC? This will help us to give you much better tips. If not, no biggie.

I’m an idiot with these things. I jumped from PS2 to PS5, so I don’t know how to post a video. I know it automatically saves most recent gameplay, but I honestly don’t know what to do from there as far as editing it and then, I assume, posting to YouTube. . .

 

[ketiux]

Are you talking compression or expansion? I’ve watched Harmonic’s videos on suspension tuning but even he admits at this point it’s a crap shoot when the updates keep changing the physics and FFB.

No compression or expansion, I'm referring to spring rates. Dampers are what you were talking about but that's a bit different. If the car has a happy tail, increase front spring rates (frequency) and lower the rear.

Yes, you save the most recent video, link your account to YT and then upload it. But if it's too much don't worry, we can still help via this forum.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Because . . . ?

You will accelerate out of corners faster and have faster laptimes overall. The TC kicks in often when you don't need or want it to.

It doesn't take long to get used to it, especially on the slower cars.

 

[platocplx]

Honestly I’d rather run TCS1 im more prone to make mistakes and even with TCS1 you can still get ****ed depending on the car. Also if you are actually pretty good with throttle control anyway you barely activate it anyway it’s good to see where you are doing way too much on the throttle imo.

But I see the TCS0 advantages but just not there yet for that.

 

[Jump_Ace]

This is how I tend to think of TCS, 600HP is more or less the breaking point for TCS in most cars. 4WD cars can probably go higher in HP before needing TCS 🤷‍♂️

if (HP > 600) {
system.car.select 'TCS1';
} else {
system.car.select 'TCS0';
}

Jerome

 

[xMAXIx79]

A lot has been written about the advantages and disadvantages... and I have also immortalized myself here in the topic. BUT the most important thing IS and REMAINS the driver who uses it or not.

So the bottom line is, if you feel more comfortable WITH TCS and thus reach your personal limit, you should use it, if you notice or think that you can push your personal limit even further without TCS and thus improve your times, you should do it.

There is definitely NOT an always valid statement that is correct for EVERY driver. There are also other factors such as Contacts from other vehicles in the race or dirty tires, the rather "suboptimal" FFB or rain on the track.


Regarding the load cell in the pedals.
It is certainly not absolutely necessary, BUT driving with a load cell makes it easier to dose the braking force precisely, since the body, better said, can dose “force” better and more finely and repeat it over and over again than pure movement. Without a load cell, you as a driver are dependent on the feedback the game gives you, how hard you are braking and a very imprecise estimate of how far you have moved your foot.

With the load cell, you step against a resistance and feel how hard you brake. Similar to a pebble you stand on, you feel the tiniest shift in weight. In a normal car, in addition to the brake pressure on the pedal, you immediately feel the deceleration of the car in your whole body, which means that the more practice you have, the driver can always use the perfect brake pressure.

Before I had pedals with a load cell, I only had very cheap normal pedals with almost no counter-pressure on the pedals, but even then I noticed that the dosage is difficult.
Later I bought the T-LCM, got used to it and now I would never want to ride pedals without a load cell again.

 

[Rotherbach K]

Hi,

Yes - you can be faster With Most Cars With TC Off and Sometimes even With ABS Off - the Same as in RL.

But ...
First Hand you Need to be a real good Driver, have excelent Control over Throttle, Brakes and Steering. And what ist offen forgotten - a Lot of experience With the Car and the Tires.

IRL experience - my current Sport Car is a Renault Clio 3 RS Cup - If I Change Tires and the quality ist different - you only notice this unser extreme conditions or If you make a mistake. My previous Porsches (944 Turbo S and 924S Exclusive) we're very different - If the new tire was worse in quality - the Performance was noticeable different.

From my GT7 Experience - you cannot Setup ABS in such Details, that you can optimize braking without ABS to a good result, May IT the too simple Tire model or the Lack of controls - i don't know it. Result: i only Switch ABS Off in Cars, that either don't have ABS IRL or where IT IS forbidden by Rules.

TC ist Not exactly the Same - you can optimize a Lot there at the Diff. But the Problem ist Here the Tire again. AS this is a real black Box - IT IS hard to estimate the Changes in different conditions. And honestly - in a Lot of racing series TC is also allowed and If you don't have perfekt conditions TC can help you being faster. AS GT7 TC is more Like an Axe then a modern fine tuned System - you will BE faster, If you still invest a Lot of optimizing the Diff and keep TC as Low as possible. And - depending on the Track - you can Change its settings Düring driving - so where IT IS affecting your driving negatively - Switch IT Off, use IT in 1 (or in Rain at Higher Levels) where IT Suits driving ... Also Here: i don't use IT, when IT wasn't available in the Car IRL.

My 2cts to this topic

 

[Quakebass]

Generally speaking GT’s TC cuts far more power than necessary. Being able to run without TC will both allow you to drive closer to the limit and give you a better understanding of your car’s handling characteristics, which kinda positive-feedback-loop into each other as you became more used to it. That said, TC1 is still extremely useful for standing starts, but only for a second or two.

Also, I’ve found ABS off is actually usable for the first time in GT history with 7. Previously it’s felt like ABS on is “your brakes won’t lock” and ABS off is “your brakes will lock if you think about slowing down”. Since I don’t use race cars often I can’t say for sure if it’s a good universal default to have, but after having a toxic competition with my housemates over best license times I found that ABS off is in fact faster when you can manage it, it was immediately apparent in the first two brake tests. The haptics and adaptive triggers help immensely for sensing braking limits, but I’m not sure if it’s as easy to feel on PS4 hardware.

 

[Rotherbach K]

Hi,

You Point on Something important - you will BE faster, If you can handle it. This will BE the result from - having the perfect Equipment for yourself (which can be expensive) and the time to get used to the Equipment and the physics in a Lot of Details. And this requires time ...

 

[Scaff]

Yes - you can be faster With Most Cars With TC Off and Sometimes even With ABS Off - the Same as in RL.

Nope, real life is quite different to that. In reality cars are very often quicker with ABS and TC switched on, particularly purpose built race cars that run ABS and TC systems designed for use on the circuit. GT3 is a prime example of this, you will find zero teams switching them to zero and being quicker, the cars are specifically designed, developed and built to be quicker with the systems active.

Gran Turismo does not model this well at all.

 

[xMAXIx79]

Generally speaking GT’s TC cuts far more power than necessary. Being able to run without TC will both allow you to drive closer to the limit and give you a better understanding of your car’s handling characteristics, which kinda positive-feedback-loop into each other as you became more used to it. That said, TC1 is still extremely useful for standing starts, but only for a second or two.

Also, I’ve found ABS off is actually usable for the first time in GT history with 7. Previously it’s felt like ABS on is “your brakes won’t lock” and ABS off is “your brakes will lock if you think about slowing down”. Since I don’t use race cars often I can’t say for sure if it’s a good universal default to have, but after having a toxic competition with my housemates over best license times I found that ABS off is in fact faster when you can manage it, it was immediately apparent in the first two brake tests. The haptics and adaptive triggers help immensely for sensing braking limits, but I’m not sure if it’s as easy to feel on PS4 hardware.

At the very end you mentioned the most important point that should have been mentioned first in your post.
You drive with a pad, then also with a DS5.

The TCS works MUCH harder when using a gamepad than when using a steering wheel. And yes, with the PAD, even with TCS 1, performance is extremely limited, which makes you much slower. When using a steering wheel, on the other hand, TCS1 is not as bad as some people make it out to be. And to put it provocatively, I can probably drive the Nordschleife CE sectors or the whole lap faster with TCS1 on the steering wheel than many players who do not use TCS. (Although I have been driving there without TCS for some time)
Whereas I TCS zb. saved his ass several times in Spa at the bus stop or after the hairpin after the start/finish (especially in the race).

 

[VR]

LSD can be very helpful for us lead foot's lower values will help traction look through https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/praianos-tunes-settings-for-gt7.404868/ and see what he uses for certain cars you might have and can test

As far as I've understood lower LSD values will not increase traction out of corners but will make the loss of traction more gradual whereas higher values would initially give more traction but once you go over the limit the rear will step out more violently.

Although this is not in contradiction with what you said about lower LSD settings being helpful if you're heavy-footed, I think your message could be interpreted as lower values increasing traction. But this is just going by how I've understood it to work in GT 7 so feel free to correct me!

 

[Rotherbach K]

Hi Scaff,

That's why I have weiteren MOST instead of all.

In Most Road Cars you can get big Problems With TC and ABS Systems when driving hard on Tracks (and you should only do IT there) If you don't Update them or reprogram then. Many VW MEB Cars are Bad examples - they understeer very much With ABS and cannot Show their real "Potential". Another examples - where IT IS opposite are Opel/Vauxhall Corsa VX/OPC - they are so overpowered for their Chassis - they are faster nearly everywhere With activated assisting systems.

But what one must Always consider is: when you deactivate them all - have you Tires on, that still allow you good braking and are you in the mood and conditions to completely immerse yourself into driving. Because - every Inch of lost concentration will cost you Lots of time.

BR K