COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[kikie]

Happy future birthday @TB and enjoy your second "birthday" shot. Hopefully, as a birthday present, you get a few years younger (side effect from the vaccine).

Apparently, I can expect to get invited to get vaccinated somewhere in May.

 

[Touring Mars]

This is a bit of a diversion, but it is relevant to this thread:

"Deadly pig disease could have led to Covid spillover to humans, analysis suggests"

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...o-covid-spillover-to-humans-analysis-suggests

This article links to this (warning, contains some pictures you may find distasteful...)

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-china-found-a-way-to-stop-future-pandemics-

I've never had a problem with eating meat on a philosophical basis - we are omnivores, after all, and eating meat is perfectly normal/natural in the grand evolutionary scale of things... but, these pictures make me think, boy are we going wrong somewhere.

Aside from the ethics of eating meat, and even the ethics of animal welfare, the global meat industry is increasingly tied to not one but three of the most serious (IMO) threats to human society: climate change, viral pandemics and antibiotic resistance.

It is interesting and disturbing to find out how animal farms are contributing (in a major way) to all of these issues, but it is also quite alarming to consider how none of these problems can be addressed without global cooperation, which right now appears to be a million miles away from possible...

 

[Blitz24]

This is a bit of a diversion, but it is relevant to this thread:

"Deadly pig disease could have led to Covid spillover to humans, analysis suggests"

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...o-covid-spillover-to-humans-analysis-suggests

This article links to this (warning, contains some pictures you may find distasteful...)

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...s-china-found-a-way-to-stop-future-pandemics-

I've never had a problem with eating meat on a philosophical basis - we are omnivores, after all, and eating meat is perfectly normal/natural in the grand evolutionary scale of things... but, these pictures make me think, boy are we going wrong somewhere.

Aside from the ethics of eating meat, and even the ethics of animal welfare, the global meat industry is increasingly tied to not one but three of the most serious (IMO) threats to human society: climate change, viral pandemics and antibiotic resistance.

It is interesting and disturbing to find out how animal farms are contributing (in a major way) to all of these issues, but it is also quite alarming to consider how none of these problems can be addressed without global cooperation, which right now appears to be a million miles away from possible...

It's a good thing I do not consume pork then.


*Ducks*

 

[MatskiMonk]

*Ducks*

Yes, ducks are much tastier than pigs. 👍

edit: I agree with @TouringMars, the prevalence of meat as part of daily diets is a key, but often overlooked, aspect of the way society and the environment is heading, but it's probably a topic for a different thread.

 

[Jezza819]

A little vaccine humor.

 

[Brett]

It seems the worst side effect I have had was a sore shoulder. I still have a touch of soreness in the shoulder, but it is not something I really notice or would complain about.

My partner received her first round of the Moderna vaccine on Wednesday. She did not have the same experience I did. Her arm was sore from the shot location to near her elbow. Through the night on Wednesday, she felt chills and possibly a fever. Yesterday morning, she had the rest of the side effects: tiredness, headache, and muscle pains with the occasional feeling of fever or chills. Fortunately, this morning all of that seems to be gone.

 

[TB]

Besides the 2 minute nausea session and a slight headache, both of which could have been unrelated to the shot, I had absolutely no symptoms from the Pfizer shot. I had more of a reaction from the adhesive on the bandage.

A co-worker got the J&J shot yesterday and is out sick today.

 

[Blitz24]

Besides the 2 minute nausea session and a slight headache, both of which could have been unrelated to the shot, I had absolutely no symptoms from the Pfizer shot. I had more of a reaction from the adhesive on the bandage.

A co-worker got the J&J shot yesterday and is out sick today.

Symptoms seem to range. I had very slight muscle soreness for a few days.

 

[Brett]

Besides the 2 minute nausea session and a slight headache, both of which could have been unrelated to the shot, I had absolutely no symptoms from the Pfizer shot. I had more of a reaction from the adhesive on the bandage.

A co-worker got the J&J shot yesterday and is out sick today.

I have that problem with bandages also.

 

[Jezza819]

Symptoms seem to range. I had very slight muscle soreness for a few days.

A co-worker of mine got his first shot on Tuesday and he said his arm wasn't sore unless it was touched because another co-worker came up to him and sort of tapped him on that arm and he said that made him want to punch said co-worker

**EDIT** Alabama just announced they were opening up the vaccine to those 55+ starting March 22nd. THAT'S ME!!!

 

[eran0004]

So apparently the US is banning export of Astra-Zeneca’s vaccine to the EU. The vaccine isn’t approved for use in the US, which makes this decision even more controversial.

 

[Outspacer]

So apparently the US is banning export of Astra-Zeneca’s vaccine to the EU. The vaccine isn’t approved for use in the US, which makes this decision even more controversial.

Well, not exactly. In short, the EU asked AstraZeneca to loan it 10 million doses from the US stock (estimated at around 10 million doses, see below). The doses belong to the US gov, so AstraZeneca asked the US gov if they would allow it. The request has been denied for now, however there are ongoing internal US discussions about where it would be most effective for excess vaccines to go. Having boosted orders for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, the AstraZeneca doses could well be exported. This doesn't sound like a ban to me, nor controversial.

["The current U.S. stockpile of AstraZeneca doses is less than 10 million, several people familiar with the matter said. An AstraZeneca executive told CNBC last week that the company expects to have 30 million doses ready to ship when the shot receives authorization from the Food and Drug Administration. It isn’t clear when that may happen, but it’s at least weeks away." - Bloomberg].

Certainly no more controversial than the fact that after various comments denigrating the AstraZeneca vaccine, and initial restrictions on its use in over 65s, there are now stocks of it in the EU going unused because people refuse to take it!

The same 'export ban' claim against the UK has also been firmly denied, and components for the Pfizer vaccine are exported from the UK to Belgium. In fact, the EU imports components from 83 producers globally (nytimes).

What this seems to boil down to is differences in the commercial terms of the various deals with vaccine makers. The EU put "being manufactured in the EU" very high on their list of priorities when drawing those up. To turn around what Charles Michel has been saying, those terms could be viewed as effectively a "different way" of banning imports to the EU. Of course it's not helpful to do so, but nor are these claims of bans, restrictions and lack of transparency...

(warning: probably some swears in the comments, click through at own risk...)


Apart from a dip in production when they retooled, Pfizer appears to be capable of providing the contracted doses for both the EU and UK from their Belgium plant. At least close enough for this row to be over AstraZeneca rather than Pfizer (other than the EU coming very close to banning the export of Pfizer to UK).

In the UK we're now at a point where we need a certain supply to be able to provide second doses within the already extended 12 week timeframe. Over the next month this has to quickly ramp up from around 50k per day now to about 400k per day. It would not be ethical to jeopardize that and risk leaving people without their second dose, so even with less threatening diplomacy I'm not sure we would be able to help much.

edit: BBC has a pretty good (and very long) article about the politics within the EU, touches on the export ban row as well. An interesting quote:

Privately some EU diplomats describe Brussels' digs at the UK as "childish".

"I don't understand those in the EU who can't praise the UK where praise is due," one EU insider told me. "The government there has done a great job getting vaccines. The NHS is doing amazing work with the vaccine roll-out. And we should openly say that."

"And we should openly say that", says the unnamed source. Heh.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Both wife and I got vaccinated today with first shot of Moderna, even though 30 hours ago we had no idea when we will be able to. Had to drive for a couple of hours to Ohio.

Wife has preexisting conditions, so she was able to sign up for a shot, after we found out that you don’t have to be an Ohio resident to get vaccinated (and Michigan is only vaccinating 50+ people with conditions). I was lucky that it was the end of the day for them and they had leftovers that would be spoiled. So far, no symptoms, except maybe some tingling in the throat in the first hour after the shot. Happy as hell! Second dose will be 3 days before our birthday. Nice gift

 

[CodeRedR51]

the AZ doses could well be exported.

I was about to throw a fit thinking that Arizona had excess vaccines and were going to ship them elsewhere while I sit here waiting for my turn. But then it's not Arizona AZ so......carry on.

 

[gnomefromnome]

All Alaskans age 16+ are eligible to receive the vaccinations

*Alaskan* Senate leaders elect to remove one of their own from Capitol over mask policies

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (KTUU) - In Juneau, the events of Wednesday’s Senate floor session have resulted in one member of the body being barred from common areas inside of the Capitol building and from participating in certain legislative activities, citing what leadership considers to be a continued refusal to follow precautions against COVID-19.

 

[NotThePrez]

My mother got her first shot of the Pfizer vaccine just over week ago. Apparently it was a relatively quick process (or at least quicker than I expected), as she was in and out in ~45 minutes. According to her, the only symptoms she experienced were cold-like symptoms, most notably a scratchy sore throat that went away in a few minutes. Unfortunately for her, when she mentioned this to the nurse, the nurse immediately whisked her away to another room with several EMTs, and told her that she had to wait in said room for 15 minutes, and that the EMTs would be nearby to help if she experienced more severe symptoms. My mother who, if nothing else, is a person that very much hates unnecessarily sitting around doing nothing, was less than amused by this turn of events.

She should be getting her 2nd shot of the vaccine late this week/early next week, so I'll be curious to see what other symptoms (hopefully none) manifest. That being said, it's a pretty good feeling that she was able to get the vaccine much earlier than anticipated, as even though she takes very good care of herself, she is in the high-risk demographic.

 

[Barra333]

I was about to throw a fit thinking that Arizona had excess vaccines and were going to ship them elsewhere while I sit here waiting for my turn. But then it's not Arizona AZ so......carry on.

I was also wondering why Arizona was wielding so much power in this conversation.

Related, Canada is seriously at the mercy of all of these fights since none of our doses are made in house. While the US is talking about the general public being eligible in May, I will be surprised if the same group are eligible before Christmas at the rate we are going. I still don't know whether to be pissed at the federal government, the provincial government or our local health unit for it. Probably all three. My neighbour is a firefighter and got a jab a couple of weeks ago and said it is an amazingly convoluted process on the day.

 

[Outspacer]

I was about to throw a fit thinking that Arizona had excess vaccines and were going to ship them elsewhere while I sit here waiting for my turn. But then it's not Arizona AZ so......carry on.

I was also wondering why Arizona was wielding so much power in this conversation.

Tsk... post edited to avoid confusing North Americans

Related, Canada is seriously at the mercy of all of these fights since none of our doses are made in house. While the US is talking about the general public being eligible in May, I will be surprised if the same group are eligible before Christmas at the rate we are going. I still don't know whether to be pissed at the federal government, the provincial government or our local health unit for it. Probably all three. My neighbour is a firefighter and got a jab a couple of weeks ago and said it is an amazingly convoluted process on the day.

It would logical for a country importing vaccine to have pushed for contracts more focussed on delivery amounts and dates, which should be upheld unless there are manufacturing issues. I've no idea what Canada's deals are like but could presume this to be the case for them.

I'd hesitate to even call this a row let alone a fight because it's so one-sided and self-defeating. Even if the EU were to start banning exports then I don't think there would be much if any retaliation, and even then would have to be targetted, reciprocal and proportional for it to have any kind of political acceptance. The EU might get away with blocking some exports - well, technically it was Italy not the EU that stopped the shipment of 250k doses to Australia - but in that case only because Australia has the virus pretty well under control at the moment. The threat to block Pfizer to the UK was hollow (for both acceptability and risk of retaliation reasons).

I'd have been ok with our gov relinquishing a proportion of our doses to go the EU, but it would have been little more than a gesture - there's no way we could've covered the 60 to 70 million dose shortfall of AstraZeneca's EU production, it might have been 5 to 10 million at most. (This is what annoys me the most about these false accusations from the EU - there's little they can gain except a facade of righteous indignance). When thinking about the US and Canada the exact opposite is true - a small proportion of US doses would go a very long way.

However it happens, I really hope you get it flowing soon.

 

[TB]

Second dose will be 3 days before our birthday. Nice gift

How does this keep happening? My second is the day after my birthday.

 

[Blitz24]

How does this keep happening? My second is the day after my birthday.

The country is hoping you'll forget the money you owe in taxes and give this as your present.

 

[TJ13]

Well I will get my first dose on Thursday.
With my second dose being the 8th or 15th of April (If the 15th then it's only 4 days before my birthday)

 

[CodeRedR51]

*sigh*

 

[Outspacer]

EU threatens tougher vaccine export curbs in dispute with UK, U.S.

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - The European Union on Wednesday threatened to take tougher measures to curb the export of COVID-19 vaccines, escalating an ongoing row with Britain and the Unites States over their restrictive handling of vaccine deliveries to the 27-nation bloc.

“If this situation does not change, we will have to reflect on how to make exports to vaccine-producing countries dependent on their level of openness,” EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told a news conference.

She said Europe just wants to make sure it gets its fair share.

“We are ready to use whatever tools we need to deliver on that,” von der Leyen said.

She warned that the bloc “will reflect on whether exports to countries who have higher vaccination rates than us are still proportionate”.

In the six weeks from Jan. 30, when the EU put in place a system requiring authorisation of vaccine exports, drugmakers shipped 9.1 million doses to Britain and 1 million to the United States from EU plants.

Yet again they're going with the false claim that countries have "restrictive handling" of exports

Seeing as we've been hearing the same for going on two months now I still doubt it will come to any actual action. As I mused before, it wouldn't result in a large enough gain in supply to be worth the political fallout and risk of retaliation - notably of critical vaccine components for Pfizer from the UK. Although I think UK would be daft to do that, it'd have to at least threaten it. Political fallout from any action by the EU would be immense, and not just outside Europe.

 

[Touring Mars]

The whole EU-UK vaccine debacle is pretty unedifying and regrettable all round.

I reckon if the EU do block vaccine exports (or, worse still, deliberately hamper vaccine production in the UK), it will be blasted by the international community and rightly vilified. That said, the UK should also be doing more to ensure that exports from the EU are being reciprocated more fairly.

-

Scotland's FM Nicola Sturgeon has said Scotland could reach 'Level 0' restrictions by June.... hmmm.

Sturgeon was heavily criticized a couple of weeks ago for not being optimistic enough (yes, really..) in her assessment of possible lockdown easing, but now she seems to have gone too far the other way. The UK Government's current mantra - in effect repeated by Sturgeon too - is 'data, not dates'... this is very smart and the right thing to do... so then, why follow that in the next breath by putting a damn date on it??

Also, bravo to whoever came up with Scotland's official COVID 'levels' nomenclature scheme. Scotland currently has 5 levels of COVID restrictions, numbered 0-4. So Level 4 is the top of the five level scheme, and Level 0 is the bottom. Confused yet? OK, it's not that bad. But... Level 0 doesn't mean zero restrictions... in fact, level 0 is still quite onerous... and it categorically does not imply in any way 'Zero covid' (or does it...?). I would be interested to see a survey of how many people realise that Level 0 is still a level.

I'd personally have recommended a 5-level system of restrictions, ranging from Level 1 to Level 5, and reserved 'Level 0' to mean 'no more restrictions!', but I'm not a public health expert, so what do I know?

 

[Outspacer]

The whole EU-UK vaccine debacle is pretty unedifying and regrettable all round.

I reckon if the EU do block vaccine exports (or, worse still, deliberately hamper vaccine production in the UK), it will be blasted by the international community and rightly vilified. That said, the UK should also be doing more to ensure that exports from the EU are being reciprocated more fairly.

I'm as exasperated as you are! Hope my making these points doesn't come across as being argumentative, or anti-EU for the sake of it, it's just me trying to think rationally about it all.

I can't see it as an "EU-UK" debacle, it's just the EU's (by which I mean jumping straight to threats of lawsuits etc etc as soon as AstraZeneca told them production wasn't going well). The individual countries aren't doing great either, in terms of organising and administering the doses they have got. I've read that around 15 million doses of AstraZeneca have been delivered to the EU, but less than half have been used. In total 48 million vaccines used out of 62.2 million [1]. I guess that means around 45 million doses of Pfizer delivered, compared to about 9 million to UK. That said, 48 million (10% of population) given is significant, and better than many places - if that is so desperately low that export bans are being considered, what good is an extra 10 million (2%) going to do?!

I'd like for the UK to at least be able to say they are exporting vaccines somewhere, but I'd rather see them go where they'd actually be used, and where they'd make a significant difference. I'd have to say that right now I'd pick Canada rather than the EU, since the EU has covered much more of its elderly by now than Canada.

The EU isn't doing us a favour by allowing exports, so no credit is due for that - we have a deal with Pfizer, and their plant happens to be in Belgium. The key point here is that the EU has not given up any of its contracted supply to anyone else, yet that is what it is expecting of the UK. I wouldn't call that reciprocal at all. That aside, a pro rata export of AstraZeneca would only amount to about 2 million doses [2].

A lot of the AstraZeneca vaccine that's going to be given in the UK over the next weeks has actually come from Pune, India. Yeah, I didn't see that coming! Read that Canada is getting a million or so doses from them, and although it didn't say how many were coming here the implication was significantly more (possibly as much as 10 million) [3]. This has been enabled by Canadian authorities visting Pune to inspect a year or so ago, UK doing the same in December, and a mutual recognition agreement between UK and Canada meaning that our inspection counts for them too. I'd hazard a guess that the only reason there's none going to the EU from Pune is because they haven't inspected the plant (and don't recognise our inspection of it).

All in all, it's not so much a question of whether we should help the EU, it's more whether we could, significantly. As I posted before, we soon need >300k a day just to give second doses within the 12 weeks. About half of those have to be Pfizer if we aren't to be forced into a mix'n'match strategy (close to 10 million doses of each between now and end of May, I think [4]). Once we've done first doses for all over-50s I guess it would be politically acceptable to slow down on first doses. I don't know exactly how much that might free up to export, but seems obvious that it would only be a trickle compared to AstraZeneca's EU shortfall. A token gesture.

So what are our gov's choices? Either stick to the point of principle, relinquish none, be accused of selfishness and face export bans, or offer what we can, have it derided as pathetic, and still be accused of selfishness and face export bans.

(got links to back up the figures on another PC - hope I haven't misremembered any)
edit: close enough...

[1] tweet. (I believe the total figure tallies with other sources, the AstraZeneca may be slightly out of date). Also reports on the blood clotting cases refer to figures like 5 million doses of AstraZeneca administered in the EU, or 17 million across EU and UK combined.

[2] Calculated as: Pfizer exports to UK / Pfizer deliveries to EU&UK * UK AstraZeneca deliveries: 9m / 57m * 12m = ~1.9m.

[3] 10 million to the UK, timeframe unspecified (link). Don't know if Ontario health minister has changed mind on over-65s getting it since 4th March, hope so. 2m to Canada, 0.5m (or maybe the 1m I remembered from somewhere?) already in country (link).

[4] from yellow card reporting as of 28th Feb, 10.7m Pfizer first doses, 9.7m AstraZeneca first doses, 0.8m second doses (mostly Pfizer), so call it 9.9m Pfizer first doses still need matching between 28th Feb and end of May.

 

[kikie]

 

[CodeRedR51]

Someone at my work apparently tested positive. Obviously they won't say who it was because Hipaa, but by process of elimination it's not hard to figure out who it is. What's interesting is that this person was being super careful and still tested positive. Here I am not doing much out of my usual daily activities besides wearing a mask at work and in stores because required. Been lucky I guess.

 

[Outspacer]

A 4 week delay of (at least?) 5 million of the AstraZeneca doses from India means that UK will have to pause giving first doses completely in a week or so, no appointments are to be made for healthy under-50s (BBC). Looks like we can finish giving first doses to over-50s and then strictly second doses only.

Hopeful me at the beginning of February:

One of my worries was that having to start giving second doses soon would slow it down, but having done some calcs it doesn't seem to do so much, or for a long time...

Assuming 2% growth in jabbing capacity a week starting from 3.5m a week now, and that second doses start in 4 weeks time, then only 25% of doses given need to be second doses to be able to do the 9.2 million that have already had their first dose within 12 weeks from now.

At that rate, we would hit 70% of all adults having had first dose about 9 weeks from now, and if we then switched entirely to giving second doses those would be done to the same level about 17 weeks from now.

Of course it won't happen quite like that, and there is bound to be some problem along the way. (etc etc, snipped)

That didn't take long to turn out wrong! Doses given per week decreased instead of increased, and we'll be well short of 70% of adults at 9 weeks (6th April). But right to be worried about impact of commitment to second doses and 'some problem'.

 

[Daz555]

A 4 week delay of (at least?) 5 million of the AstraZeneca doses from India means that UK will have to pause giving first doses completely in a week or so, no appointments are to be made for healthy under-50s (BBC). Looks like we can finish giving first doses to over-50s and then strictly second doses only.

I have managed to squeeze in just in time thankfully. I'm 49 and will have my first jab on Saturday. My wife is a few years younger than me so will have to wait now for a longer time it seems - which sucks because she is a teacher and at a higher risk. I have worked from home for a year and am at almost no risk at all.

I have a late appointment in the day so my wife is going to come along anyway as from time to time they have spare doses from no-shows.

 

[Outspacer]

I have managed to squeeze in just in time thankfully. I'm 49 and will have my first jab on Saturday. My wife is a few years younger than me so will have to wait now for a longer time it seems - which sucks because she is a teacher and at a higher risk. I have worked from home for a year and am at almost no risk at all.

I have a late appointment in the day so my wife is going to come along anyway as from time to time they have spare doses from no-shows.

I too have my first dose booked for Saturday! I'm a few years older than you, but likewise been working from home all this time. That said, there's been a couple of times that made me realise that luck plays a large part - like finding out last time I went to the dentist that half of the staff had just been off for two weeks because of an outbreak there, even with all their (very good) precautions.

Hope your wife gets lucky with a spare dose!