COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)
- Thread starter baldgye
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Understatement of the year so far.
Rand Paul is a 🤬 cretin of the highest order.
Paul's argument that people who wear a mask after vaccination are doing it as 'theatre' is utterly disgusting... his confidence that current vaccines will be able to counteract any new variants that are already in the US (not to mention any more that will inevitably arise) is pretty incredible, not least given that there hasn't been any large scale studies on that yet. And so, in the meantime, and for the foreseeable future, it would be very wise indeed to continue to urge everyone to wear a mask when in public or meeting others. Conversely, telling people who are vaccinated or who have recovered from COVID that they don't need to bother wearing a mask is asking for trouble.
It really is hard to fathom how people like him think - he said that Fauci should be offering people 'a reward' for getting vaccinated, and not telling them they still have to wear a mask after vaccination... as if preventing tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths is not a reward. It is just so staggeringly selfish and short-sighted.
Danoff
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Also... the theater in this case would still be worthwhile. It makes it easy to see who is not complying. "I'm vaccinated I don't need a mask" means that 'hats who aren't but don't want to mask up will make that claim.
Also... *deep breath*
Why is it so hard to wear a mask? Surgical masks are so light you can barely feel it, and they're cheap and compact. Get a grip people! You have to wear pants too right? I just cannot believe the amount of whining over mask wearing. It is the least onerous aspect of COVID.
My kids having to be home while I work? Onerous. Restaurants closing down? Onerous. Inability to meet up with family and friends? Onerous. Suffocating to death in the ER? Onerous. 1 oz paper thingy on your face while you're shopping? Doesn't register.
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Scaff
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Agree on so many levels.
In regard to mask-wearing, I actually did one of my runs with an N95 mask last year to see if it made any difference to my heart rate, VO2 rate, etc. Apart from being slightly uncomfortable, it made no difference at all, quite frankly I'm tempted to keep wearing one during flu season even after all this is over!
- 5,617
- Alabamistan
I'm starting to see more and more people where I shop not wearing masks even though our state mandate is still in effect for about 3 more weeks and all of the stores still have "face coverings required" on their entrances. I just think the stores don't have the willpower anymore to enforce the rules.
I think this will go down as a one time thing and regardless if say 10 years down the road something else pops up that causes dead bodies to stack up in the streets like firewood, people still wouldn't wear masks because "it's agin our freeduuuummmm!!!!!!"
I think this will go down as a one time thing and regardless if say 10 years down the road something else pops up that causes dead bodies to stack up in the streets like firewood, people still wouldn't wear masks because "it's agin our freeduuuummmm!!!!!!"
- 5,492
- Vic, Australia
- gundalini
Definitely not onerous, but at times annoying? Yes for sure.
Wearing one for an hour or two while shopping wouldn't register no but wearing one for 10 hours a day five days a week and only taking it off to eat and drink does get annoying.
Totally agree the paper surgical ones are the way to go, I tried many types and they for me anyway are the least annoying by far but at the end of the day even with being so light the strings hurt behind the ears.
I've worn one because it's the responsible thing to do and don't complain about it but look forward to the day when they are not needed at all.
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McLaren
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For all the people who were so called experts on the flu (we know who they are) & comparing it to Covid, it's amazing how many suddenly "forgot" a vaccine doesn't make you 100% immune (seeing as we're encouraged to have flu vaccines every year). But, that seems to be the idiotic approach Paul & others seem to have by thinking, "Vaccinated means no more mask". Even while vaccinated, the job of your mask is to protect others.
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Tired Tyres
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Fauci deserves an award for being able to respond calmly to the incessant inane questions from Rand Paul. Only problem is, unlike Paul, he's got quite a few already! His replies aren't going to stop Paul coming back with whatever anti-restriction questions he can find for next week, but maybe one or two of the public who might ask such questions might listen to Fauci, so it has to be done. Anyway it could be worse - at least there's a presumption in Paul's question that people should get the vaccine.
Variants are a very real threat. Warnings here to, basically, not expect to holiday abroad this summer (BBC). Whether this will be enforced remains to be seen, but I'm sure these warnings will get stronger as time goes on.
Neil Ferguson is quoted as saying that 5 to 10% of cases in some countries, including France, are of the South African variant.
In India, 158 new cases of VoCs (UK/SA/Brazil) have been detected, adding to 242 detected before (don't know what the breakdown is of each variant, or how much testing was done to detect those cases).
In the UK, a few days ago another case of the South African variant was detected in Sandwell, Birmingham and surge testing is being done in the area. The SA variant isn't as easy to detect as the UK variant, requiring genomic sequencing. I think cases are still too high to be able to sequence all positive tests, so the chance that a SA VoC case (or even a cluster) goes undetected is relatively high. It's a big worry right now since it seems to cause more serious cases, statistically, in adults under 50.
It wouldn't surprise me if we're still being asked to wear masks into winter, since even if a revised vaccine arrives in September it might take 6 months or so to fully adminsister.
I'm fine with wearing a mask for what I do now, shops etc, no problem. Rather hoping I don't have to sit through any 2 hour work meetings wearing one - not because of the mask, per se, but because it means no coffee
Variants are a very real threat. Warnings here to, basically, not expect to holiday abroad this summer (BBC). Whether this will be enforced remains to be seen, but I'm sure these warnings will get stronger as time goes on.
Neil Ferguson is quoted as saying that 5 to 10% of cases in some countries, including France, are of the South African variant.
In India, 158 new cases of VoCs (UK/SA/Brazil) have been detected, adding to 242 detected before (don't know what the breakdown is of each variant, or how much testing was done to detect those cases).
In the UK, a few days ago another case of the South African variant was detected in Sandwell, Birmingham and surge testing is being done in the area. The SA variant isn't as easy to detect as the UK variant, requiring genomic sequencing. I think cases are still too high to be able to sequence all positive tests, so the chance that a SA VoC case (or even a cluster) goes undetected is relatively high. It's a big worry right now since it seems to cause more serious cases, statistically, in adults under 50.
It wouldn't surprise me if we're still being asked to wear masks into winter, since even if a revised vaccine arrives in September it might take 6 months or so to fully adminsister.
I'm fine with wearing a mask for what I do now, shops etc, no problem. Rather hoping I don't have to sit through any 2 hour work meetings wearing one - not because of the mask, per se, but because it means no coffee
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- 29,337
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- GTP_Mars
It's a pity that people like Dr. Fauci can be summarily sacked at the whim of the President for daring to say something that is scientifically correct but unpopular, but a senator like Rand Paul can quite happily sit there and spout crap for as long as their electorate like what they hear.
There is something very wrong about the fact that scientific truth and sound public health advice can get you sacked for being right, while a senator is likely to be reelected even when they are consistently (and sometimes dangerously) wrong.
That said, it really says something about Dr. Fauci that even Trump didn't sack him. And with some luck, voters will not forget those who got it so badly wrong on COVID at the ballot box - though what are the chances of that?
There is something very wrong about the fact that scientific truth and sound public health advice can get you sacked for being right, while a senator is likely to be reelected even when they are consistently (and sometimes dangerously) wrong.
That said, it really says something about Dr. Fauci that even Trump didn't sack him. And with some luck, voters will not forget those who got it so badly wrong on COVID at the ballot box - though what are the chances of that?
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Danoff
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I see this differently than the kinds of mask mandates that people like Rand Paul are talking about, although maybe that's not fair. I regard masks that people wear as part of their jobs to be gear required to wear for work. I'm sure construction workers get irritated at hard hats and safety glasses, and some of them have to wear masks for extended periods just to deal with construction dust. Those reflective vests for construction workers look irritating in the summer too, and standing for hours at a time at a cash register is a chore as well. Some jobs require a tie, or even a suit!
But what you do for work is, at least to some extent, a choice. Wearing a mask in public is not necessarily a choice for these people, which is what they're complaining about. I think after seeing the flu data, perhaps we should hope that our grocery stores and restaurants require workers to continue wearing masks. All of the sudden having someone unmasked at the drive thru looks unsanitary. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to the day when food workers start going unmasked again.
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Personally I've found that N95s are significantly more comfortable to wear when you have to wear them for a shift at work than surgical masks. Don't put stress on your ears, the thicker metal prevents fogging up glasses (and glasses are easier to wear) and the semi-rigid construction keeps the mask off your mouth when you need to talk.
- 29,337
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- GTP_Mars
A key difference in the use of masks, however, is that while many jobs require the use of PPE to protect themselves, mask mandates are considerably more about protecting others.
I still think that most people wear masks voluntarily because they believe it offers them protection, and it does to some extent, depending on how the masks are being used. But, the main rationale for urging (or even requiring) mask wearing in public is to lower the risk of people spreading the virus, not catching it.
A single infected person can contaminate an entire room just by speaking a lot, coughing or sneezing, and others wearing flimsy, old, or ill-fitting masks will only have very limited protection from that contamination. Conversely, a room full of uninfected people not wearing a mask will be better protected by that single infected person speaking, coughing or sneezing into a mask. The other problem is that a lot of people either don't understand or reject (for some reason) the concept of asymptomatic spreading... even symptomatic people have a period of a few days where they are infected but unaware of it (e.g. pre-symptomatic and infectious), while many more people will never develop symptoms, in spite of having a high enough viral load to be infectious. As such, the concept of mask wearing to protect others is a key strategy. It's a shame that this concept hasn't been pushed harder, but it is a disgrace that a lot of people seem to understand the concept perfectly, they just refuse to do it.
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Speaking of disgraces.. with case numbers and deaths reaching new heights, Bolsonaro snaps into action...
I still think that most people wear masks voluntarily because they believe it offers them protection, and it does to some extent, depending on how the masks are being used. But, the main rationale for urging (or even requiring) mask wearing in public is to lower the risk of people spreading the virus, not catching it.
A single infected person can contaminate an entire room just by speaking a lot, coughing or sneezing, and others wearing flimsy, old, or ill-fitting masks will only have very limited protection from that contamination. Conversely, a room full of uninfected people not wearing a mask will be better protected by that single infected person speaking, coughing or sneezing into a mask. The other problem is that a lot of people either don't understand or reject (for some reason) the concept of asymptomatic spreading... even symptomatic people have a period of a few days where they are infected but unaware of it (e.g. pre-symptomatic and infectious), while many more people will never develop symptoms, in spite of having a high enough viral load to be infectious. As such, the concept of mask wearing to protect others is a key strategy. It's a shame that this concept hasn't been pushed harder, but it is a disgrace that a lot of people seem to understand the concept perfectly, they just refuse to do it.
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Speaking of disgraces.. with case numbers and deaths reaching new heights, Bolsonaro snaps into action...
Dotini
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Well, I received my first Moderna vaccination today, and it was easy and painless. Twenty minutes to my provider's clinic, 5 minutes to check in and get the shot, 15 minute wait for adverse reactions, 20 minutes to get home.
Fourteen days after I receive my 2nd dose, do you think it's then safe to forget about masks and social distancing when in the compony of those known to also have completed their vaccination?
Fourteen days after I receive my 2nd dose, do you think it's then safe to forget about masks and social distancing when in the compony of those known to also have completed their vaccination?
- 5,617
- Alabamistan
Our registration for my age group opens up on Monday. I was at my doctor's office for my regular 3 month appointment and he said to register everywhere it's offered. He said he preferred the Pfizer vaccine that was being done at the biggest hospital system in our area. But he gave me a list of websites to register at so hopefully I can get in for the first shot sometime in the next few weeks.
- 29,337
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
If everyone is fully vaccinated, then you should be fine provided you and the people you are hanging out with are still taking reasonable precautions elsewhere - but that's a bit hard to know (or to find out without causing offense!).
There will never be zero risk, though, and provided you are sensible about how many different groups of people you meet privately, then the chances of catching or passing on the virus should be pretty minimal.
That said, I would personally remain vigilant - masks indoors with private friends is not realistic, but if you are concerned you can always minimise risks in other ways, like spending time outdoors or in a well ventilated indoor area, plus sensible social distancing and minimal/no direct physical contact.
There will come a time (soon, hopefully) when we can be more confident about safety in private settings, but for now we are faced with yet another paradox, which is that the less we socialise, the safer it is to socialise....
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Ursula again. Sorry. She's been talking to German media...
Von der Leyen threatens AstraZeneca with vaccine export ban
"In the Saturday interview, von der Leyen remarked that the EU was exporting doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine manufactured in the EU to the U.K., but was not receiving any doses back from British factories"
Huh? Are they? Apparently not, at least between export controls being implemented at end of January and the date of this article, 3rd March, from at least the plant in Netherlands, according to the person VDL put in charge of checking up on production, Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton. A previous article notes it's unclear if the NL plant had produced any doses at all by early February. And judging by our current shortage, it seems very plausible we haven't had any since 3rd March either.
Even now, the NL plant doesn't appear to have authorization to produce 'biological active substance' for the EU, only to handle batch release (for the Belgium plant). (EMA PDF, page 13). Meanwhile it would appear that all, or virtually all, of the Belgium plant's 8-million doses a month has gone to the EU, since that roughly tallies with the reports of 15 million AstraZeneca doses received by the EU.
The NL plant has been built up and supported by UK gov all along, but has, it seems, already been de facto commandeered by the EU.
So, fine, Ursula, have the doses that are sitting in NL, maybe 10 million or so by now since it can produce 6 million a month. We'll manage as long as we can get enough to cover our second doses (hopefully the UK plant is enough to cover that, and she seems not to be threatening Pfizer exports any more).
Just um Himmels willen get on with it, because nothing pisses me off more than millions of doses going unused by anyone.
(for all my ranting, there is likely a lot I still don't understand about the murky, mysterious and secretive world of vaccine production deals, so I stand ready to be corrected).
This is personal now - had my first shot of AstraZeneca today, so I'll be livid if the second isn't available in early June. No side effects so far
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(Sunday 21st)
Long sleep. Aching joints, fuzzy head, very slight temperature. Nothing too bad but don't feel like doing much today.
Various public figures are today calling for a 'cooling of rhetoric' as our Defence Minister calls for the EU to respect contracts and the rule of law. (BBC)
I'd say a good first step in that would be for the Commission to be as transparent as it has demanded from the companies involved - releasing summaries of doses produced and where they went. Without that, arguments are likely to be based on cherry-picked data.
VDL is fond of saying that some 41 million vaccine doses have been exported from the EU to 33 countries in six weeks, including more than 10 million which have gone to the UK. We know that at least 9.1 million of those that came to the UK were from Pfizer, and presume that Pfizer is keeping up with deliveries to the EU at the same time (since Pfizer hasn't been threatened with lawsuits in the same way as AstraZeneca).
Without transparency, we can't say which vaccine the other ~1 million doses were, or which plant they came from. However this is far too small an amount to be worth all this fuss.
(UK had used 11.5 million doses of Pfizer by 28th Feb, and presumably more since. Obviously that's more than it's said came from the EU - did we get some from somewhere else at some point? From US? All I've found is that the first batches to arrive came from Belgium).
Without transparency, we can't say what is going on with doses produced at the NL AstraZeneca plant. It appears they have not gone to either the UK (as originally intended) or the EU. Given the circumstances, I think it's reasonable to assume they are being stockpiled in NL and shamefully going unused. If so, this standoff is the real story, and not "exports from the UK" vs "exports from the EU" at all - making it notable, and curious, that the UK hasn't publicly complained about this specifically.
On Friday the Telegraph reported: Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threats to UK. It's interesting for a bit of insight into the supply chain, and for comment from an unnamed gov source that the UK would be unlikely to retaliate.
Von der Leyen threatens AstraZeneca with vaccine export ban
"In the Saturday interview, von der Leyen remarked that the EU was exporting doses of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine manufactured in the EU to the U.K., but was not receiving any doses back from British factories"
Huh? Are they? Apparently not, at least between export controls being implemented at end of January and the date of this article, 3rd March, from at least the plant in Netherlands, according to the person VDL put in charge of checking up on production, Internal Market Commissioner Thierry Breton. A previous article notes it's unclear if the NL plant had produced any doses at all by early February. And judging by our current shortage, it seems very plausible we haven't had any since 3rd March either.
Even now, the NL plant doesn't appear to have authorization to produce 'biological active substance' for the EU, only to handle batch release (for the Belgium plant). (EMA PDF, page 13). Meanwhile it would appear that all, or virtually all, of the Belgium plant's 8-million doses a month has gone to the EU, since that roughly tallies with the reports of 15 million AstraZeneca doses received by the EU.
The NL plant has been built up and supported by UK gov all along, but has, it seems, already been de facto commandeered by the EU.
So, fine, Ursula, have the doses that are sitting in NL, maybe 10 million or so by now since it can produce 6 million a month. We'll manage as long as we can get enough to cover our second doses (hopefully the UK plant is enough to cover that, and she seems not to be threatening Pfizer exports any more).
Just um Himmels willen get on with it, because nothing pisses me off more than millions of doses going unused by anyone.
(for all my ranting, there is likely a lot I still don't understand about the murky, mysterious and secretive world of vaccine production deals, so I stand ready to be corrected).
This is personal now - had my first shot of AstraZeneca today, so I'll be livid if the second isn't available in early June. No side effects so far
- - - - - - -
(Sunday 21st)
Long sleep. Aching joints, fuzzy head, very slight temperature. Nothing too bad but don't feel like doing much today.
Various public figures are today calling for a 'cooling of rhetoric' as our Defence Minister calls for the EU to respect contracts and the rule of law. (BBC)
I'd say a good first step in that would be for the Commission to be as transparent as it has demanded from the companies involved - releasing summaries of doses produced and where they went. Without that, arguments are likely to be based on cherry-picked data.
VDL is fond of saying that some 41 million vaccine doses have been exported from the EU to 33 countries in six weeks, including more than 10 million which have gone to the UK. We know that at least 9.1 million of those that came to the UK were from Pfizer, and presume that Pfizer is keeping up with deliveries to the EU at the same time (since Pfizer hasn't been threatened with lawsuits in the same way as AstraZeneca).
Without transparency, we can't say which vaccine the other ~1 million doses were, or which plant they came from. However this is far too small an amount to be worth all this fuss.
(UK had used 11.5 million doses of Pfizer by 28th Feb, and presumably more since. Obviously that's more than it's said came from the EU - did we get some from somewhere else at some point? From US? All I've found is that the first batches to arrive came from Belgium).
Without transparency, we can't say what is going on with doses produced at the NL AstraZeneca plant. It appears they have not gone to either the UK (as originally intended) or the EU. Given the circumstances, I think it's reasonable to assume they are being stockpiled in NL and shamefully going unused. If so, this standoff is the real story, and not "exports from the UK" vs "exports from the EU" at all - making it notable, and curious, that the UK hasn't publicly complained about this specifically.
On Friday the Telegraph reported: Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threats to UK. It's interesting for a bit of insight into the supply chain, and for comment from an unnamed gov source that the UK would be unlikely to retaliate.
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CodeRedR51
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