COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[Northstar]

Trump is the real life version of Peggy Hill, right down to the possibly poisoning people. The scary part is there doesn’t appear to be a Hank around him to even things out.

 

[strela]

I wouldn't give Trump too much credit or criticism over his record on employment, and there is indeed an imminent economic and employment crisis to deal with...

Who knows... Maybe he will use that record as a Trump card during next elections.

 

[Dotini]

As a polite reminder for this thread is general, while comments and opinions pertaining to the outbreak and the handling of the outbreak by various governments are welcome, I won't allow this thread to be derailed by unsubstantiated conspiracy theories or comments that either imply or support the view that the pandemic is anything other than a public health emergency.

As such, posts of this nature will be deleted.

Would a post that supported the view that the pandemic was an economic emergency in addition to being a public health emergency be deleted? What if the comment was100% oriented to economic consequences? I wouldn't think so, but economic fallout of the pandemic may become so serious that economics comments do derail or otherwise exceed the public health emergency comments.

If a person was most interested in the economics aspect, should he be advised to post in some other thread?

 

[Liquid]

And we'll make every American healthy, so very healthy, like you'll never believe. We'll be the healthiest nation on earth, we already are, we're the envy of the world. Other great leaders call me and ask how can you be so healthy, they want to know, they can't figure it out.

Did you know?

Dettol removes 99.9% of germs. Coronavirus doesn't stand a chance.

 

[Dotini]

If the following reports is real, then what? At a very minimum, it suggests evidence of testing errors. At a maximum, it suggests that release from lockdown is at all a good plan.


Story at a glance

• Doctors in Wuhan said the patients tested negative at some point during their recovery, but then began testing positive again without symptoms.
• Some were testing positive again as much as 70 days after being cleared.
• South Korea, Japan and Italy have reported similar instances.

An increasing number of recovered coronavirus patients in China are continuing to test positive for the virus without showing any symptoms, according to a report from Reuters.

Doctors in Wuhan, China, where the COVID-19 outbreak began late last year, said the patients tested negative at some point during their recovery, but then began testing positive again without symptoms. Some were testing positive again as much as 70 days after being cleared.

Data from Reuters and other media outlets indicate there are at least dozens of such cases, but China has not published exact figures on how many recovered patients have tested positive again. Chinese officials say there have been no confirmations of newly positive patients infecting others.

Similar reports have been coming out of several other countries, including South Korea, Japan and Italy.

About 1,000 people in South Korea have reportedly tested positive for four weeks or more, and in Italy, health officials said patients could test positive for more than a month.

“We did not see anything like this during SARS,” Yuan Yufeng, a vice president at Zhongnan Hospital in Wuhan told Reuters, speaking on a case in which a patient had positive re-tests after first being diagnosed with the virus about 70 days earlier.

Health experts have previously noted the possibility of testing errors and released patients from hospitals too early as a more likely cause of recovered patients testing positive again, but the ongoing reports of recovered patients testing positive underlines how much is unknown about COVID-19.

The World Health Organization (WHO) confirmed earlier this month it is investigating such incidents in response to the reports out of South Korea.

“We are closely liaising with our clinical experts and working hard to get more information on those individual cases. It is important to make sure that when samples are collected for testing on suspected patients, procedures are followed properly,” the WHO said.

https://thehill.com/changing-americ...0-recovered-coronavirus-patients-in-china-are

 

[PzR Slim]

If the following reports is real, then what? At a very minimum, it suggests evidence of testing errors. At a maximum, it suggests that release from lockdown is at all a good plan.


Story at a glance

• Doctors in Wuhan said the patients tested negative at some point during their recovery, but then began testing positive again without symptoms.
• Some were testing positive again as much as 70 days after being cleared.
• South Korea, Japan and Italy have reported similar instances.

https://thehill.com/changing-americ...0-recovered-coronavirus-patients-in-china-are

As I said up thread the Oxford Uni scientist who is developing a vaccine stated that they were confident it would give much stronger immunity than actually being infected with the virus itself. So for some a vaccine could be the only answer. They still hope to have it ready for September which is much better than the 12-18 month timescale that was originally suggested.

 

[TexRex]

In response to Mr Trump’s comments, William Bryan of the Department of Homeland Security science and technology unit said health officials were not considering such treatment.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...nt-injection-dettol-response-uk-a9481786.html

Do you suppose there's a job opening up soon? The guy is obviously a never-Trumper and Deep Stater. Nasty and disloyal.

 

[Touring Mars]

Would a post that supported the view that the pandemic was an economic emergency in addition to being a public health emergency be deleted? What if the comment was100% oriented to economic consequences? I wouldn't think so, but economic fallout of the pandemic may become so serious that economics comments do derail or otherwise exceed the public health emergency comments.

Yeh, that would be relevant and fine as the economic side of things is inextricably linked to (and a direct result of) the public health crisis, so it's relevant to the thread.

What is not acceptable in this thread is any suggestion that the pandemic is fake or being deliberately exaggerated for political gain.

 

[Dotini]

Yeh, that would be relevant and fine as the economic side of things is inextricably linked to (and a direct result of) the public health crisis, so it's relevant to the thread.

What is not acceptable in this thread is any suggestion that the pandemic is fake or being deliberately exaggerated for political gain.

Health emergency, good for comments.
Economic emergency, good for comments.
Political emergency, good for comments?
Would a comment that is fully focused on the political fallout or aspects be welcome, as long as it is not "exaggerated"?

 

[Touring Mars]

Health emergency, good for comments.
Economic emergency, good for comments.
Political emergency, good for comments?
Would a comment that is fully focused on the political fallout or aspects be welcome, as long as it is not "exaggerated"?

Yes, though specific discussions may well be better suited to other threads.

Of course, it should also go without saying that baseless claims and false information will be removed irrespective of the topic.

 

[Dotini]

As I said up thread the Oxford Uni scientist who is developing a vaccine stated that they were confident it would give much stronger immunity than actually being infected with the virus itself. So for some a vaccine could be the only answer. They still hope to have it ready for September which is much better than the 12-18 month timescale that was originally suggested.

As if ACE2 entry receptors weren't enough, now it turns out T-Cells are also a target. Some countries like South Korea are reporting the same 'reinfection/reactivation' possibility, as well as subsets of the recovered having no antibodies and 'severely depressed immune systems'. How many viruses seem to go into remission and attack in waves?

...SARS-CoV-2 uses angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2) as its host entry receptor.2 The clinical manifestations of COVID-19 include pneumonia, diarrhea, dyspnea, and multiple organ failure. Interestingly, lymphocytopenia, as a diagnostic indicator, is common in COVID-19 patients. Xiong et al. found upregulation of apoptosis, autophagy, and p53 pathways in PBMC of COVID-19 patients.3 Some studies reported that lymphocytopenia might be related to mortality, especially in patients with low levels of CD3+, CD4+, and CD8+ T lymphocytes.4,5 Lymphocytopenia was also found in the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) cases. MERS-CoV can directly infect human primary T lymphocytes and induce T-cell apoptosis through extrinsic and intrinsic apoptosis pathways, but it cannot replicate in T lymphocytes.6 However, it is unclear whether SARS-CoV-2 can also infect T cells, resulting in lymphocytopenia.



...the questions of SARS-CoV-2 infection and replication in primary T cells and whether the infection induces apoptosis in T cells still need further research, potentially evoking new ideas about pathogenic mechanisms and therapeutic interventions.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0424-9

 

[Barra333]

If the following reports is real, then what? At a very minimum, it suggests evidence of testing errors. At a maximum, it suggests that release from lockdown is at all a good plan.


Story at a glance

• Doctors in Wuhan said the patients tested negative at some point during their recovery, but then began testing positive again without symptoms.
• Some were testing positive again as much as 70 days after being cleared.
• South Korea, Japan and Italy have reported similar instances.

https://thehill.com/changing-americ...0-recovered-coronavirus-patients-in-china-are

That is a little unsettling. However, it would be interesting to know if these relapsing positive patients are infectious or there are just traces of the virus that are detectable via the current testing methods.



-----------------------------
And since I'm already making a post...

Yes, though specific discussions may well be better suited to other threads.

Of course, it should also go without saying that baseless claims and false information will be removed irrespective of the topic.

Something something 5G


EDIT: I thought I'd add something to ths:

As if ACE2 entry receptors weren't enough, now it turns out T-Cells are also a target. Some countries like South Korea are reporting the same 'reinfection/reactivation' possibility, as well as subsets of the recovered having no antibodies and 'severely depressed immune systems'. How many viruses seem to go into remission and attack in waves?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41423-020-0424-9

There is a website called pubpeer, where the academic community can post and comment about papers, generally to critique the results or methods behind them. This paper has an entry with the following comments (albeit posted by a random person)...

General:

1. No raw data are given.
2. No clear statistical analysis is performed.
3. Figures do not seem to match to the observation.

Concerns:

1. Fig 1f the caption and or data seems to be wrong, i.e do not correspond.
2. Fig 1e blow-up contrast can represent anything.
3. Fig 1c and d scale for the blue bar (SARS-Cov-2) do not match.
4. No clear explanation nor data why 40 uM is the correct doses of EK1 peptide.

Source. Im not saying this study is garbage, but work and analysis done in weeks and pushed through peer review in days is not always the most robust.

 

[Sander 001]

Because of Trump? As far as I remember the unemployment rate was one of the lowest during Trump administration before covid. Sure somebody will take that in consideration. I would.

Unemployment was good but underemployment was terrible.
Personal debt, household debt and even national debt were skyrocketing to new heights every day even before COVID-19.

As a matter of record, Trump's own personal debt is due in the near future. He owes hundreds of millions to the Chinese Central Bank, and has many other possibly compromising ties to China.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/24/trump-biden-china-debt-205475

 

[strela]

Unemployment was good but underemployment was terrible.
Personal debt, household debt and even national debt were skyrocketing to new heights every day even before COVID-19.

I would still rather be underemployed than unemployed. And could a rise of debt be a consequence of a welfare? I mean would it make sense to make a loan when I have a job to pay my instalments?

Look it is just my personal opinion that in time of such economic crisis having a leader that priorities jobs for his citizens is better. Even if I hate him. And I don't like him.

 

[Sander 001]

I would still rather be underemployed than unemployed. And could a rise of debt be a consequence of a welfare? I mean would it make sense to make a loan when I have a job to pay my instalments?

Look it is just my personal opinion that in time of such economic crisis having a leader that priorities jobs for his citizens is better. Even if I hate him. And I don't like him.

Yeah but you're only looking at jobs during boom time. Anybody can do that and even so, he did it poorly.

 

[twitcher]

If I was a medical professional and I had a choice of scrubs, I’d choose the Aston Martin scrubs.

 

[Biggles]

I wouldn't give Trump too much credit or criticism over his record on employment, and there is indeed an imminent economic and employment crisis to deal with... but his idiotic comments on the public health crisis are not exactly instilling confidence in his ability to deal with these associated crises.

I do agree with @Chrunch Houston though, and would be a lot happier if Trump just left the medical stuff to the experts - it would be as simple as Trump just sticking to the script rather than ad-libbing... which he has proved time and time again that he cannot do without descending into an incoherent, jibbering idiot. Trump seems incapable of doing that though, and that is because he appears to believe that his insights are indispensable.

The economy had been steadily growing & unemployment going down for years before Trump took office. Trump, because he believes he's a business "genius", was confident he could turn a steady record of economic expansion into something more spectacular, aiming at 4% GDP growth. So he pressured the Fed into lowering already very low interest rates lower & cutting taxes. This juiced the economy at the cost of a much larger deficit. Growth barely crept up & much of the increased profits of big business were spent on stock buy-backs which drive up the stock market to irrational levels. Looks great ... temporarily. But we've seen this pattern before in the lead up to the 2008 financial crisis.

What the President says & how he says it is important - probably the most important thing he does. The President is supposed to be surrounded by experts - like economists, financial experts, military & Intelligence analysts, career diplomats ... & you know, health experts. Usually, US Presidents listen to the expert advice of those specialists. This President appears to think, & has frequently expressed the opinion, that he is much smarter & more knowledgable than these experts on pretty much every topic that comes up. So, he is like a bull-in-a-china-shop, charging around & wrecking everything under the egotistical delusion that he knows best. What makes this much worse is that a significant chunk of the American population appears to have bought into this delusion, including the Republican party which seems to have abandoned all its principles & "checks & balances" role in order to go along for the ride.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Companies like Benckiser have been saying that their products should not be administered into the body under any circumstances.

Those comments need weighing against the fact that Benckiser is not a President and doesn't have a great you-know-what (points at head with tiny hand).

 

[Jezza819]

The President is supposed to be surrounded by experts - like economists, financial experts, military & Intelligence analysts, career diplomats ... & you know, health experts.

Or as they were known as in the 2016 campaign "the swamp".

 

[Touring Mars]

the Republican party...seems to have abandoned all its principles & "checks & balances" role in order to go along for the ride.

I was thinking almost this exact same thing earlier today, and I have no doubt it will cost both them and America generally very dearly - indeed it already has.

Meanwhile, the Telegraph in the UK says:

Donald Trump is correct when he suggests that injecting yourself with disinfectant would kill off coronavirus.

Then again, so would setting yourself on fire, blowing yourself up with plastic explosive or freezing your body in a vat of liquid nitrogen.

(Ironically, I don't believe the latter would - that is, after all, how you store live virus samples )

 

[PzR Slim]

Any Belgians on the forum who can shed some light on what is going on in their country. They have a 56.8 deaths per 100k figure, the highest of any country in the world. If the US had a similar figure we'd be looking at 185,000 deaths rather than the 50,000 figure they have just gone past.

 

[strela]

The other party has a splendid plan to save the economy. Invest 1,7 trilion in clean energy?
I am sorry... but you really don't have much better options.

 

[Joey D]

I was thinking almost this exact same thing earlier today, and I have no doubt it will cost both them and America generally very dearly - indeed it already has.

Unfortunately, it's both the Democrats and Republicans. Both no longer stick to any of their principals and all you need to do is look at how Congress is handling the "relief" effort. Both Democrats and Republicans are too busy trying to figure out how to throw obscene amounts of money at corporations while throwing the American public virtually nothing. We're nearing $3 trillion in spending for COVID-19 relief and what has the American public seen? $1,200-ish and the government is so useless it can't even get that right since people are still waiting on their money.

Democrats used to say they stood for the average person and fought for social programs to help them. Now they don't really care. It's a real issue in America and I think the pandemic has really shown many people that the government really doesn't care about them at all. Nothing will change mind you, but at least for a few brief moments, people understood that the big government they support isn't out to take care of them.

 

[Dotini]

Unfortunately, it's both the Democrats and Republicans. Both no longer stick to any of their principals and all you need to do is look at how Congress is handling the "relief" effort. Both Democrats and Republicans are too busy trying to figure out how to throw obscene amounts of money at corporations while throwing the American public virtually nothing. We're nearing $3 trillion in spending for COVID-19 relief and what has the American public seen? $1,200-ish and the government is so useless it can't even get that right since people are still waiting on their money.

Democrats used to say they stood for the average person and fought for social programs to help them. Now they don't really care. It's a real issue in America and I think the pandemic has really shown many people that the government really doesn't care about them at all. Nothing will change mind you, but at least for a few brief moments, people understood that the big government they support isn't out to take care of them.

The brains at the Fed and Wall Street have figured out how to make the economy function without people working, consuming and paying taxes, making the people irrelevant except as voters.

 

[eran0004]

Any Belgians on the forum who can shed some light on what is going on in their country. They have a 56.8 deaths per 100k figure, the highest of any country in the world. If the US had a similar figure we'd be looking at 185,000 deaths rather than the 50,000 figure they have just gone past.

It’s a small and densely populated country, which makes it easy for the virus to spread, and difficult to compare figures with a country like the US in any meaningful way.

They also seem to include suspected covid cases in their figures, not just confirmed cases.

 

[Dotini]

It’s a small and densely populated country, which makes it easy for the virus to spread, and difficult to compare figures with a country like the US in any meaningful way.

They also seem to include suspected covid cases in their figures, not just confirmed cases.

Perhaps some countries count deaths from COVID tested positive pneumonias only, while others count deaths from heart and kidney failure which have not been tested, but which the virus is known to attack.

 

[Biggles]

It’s a small and densely populated country, which makes it easy for the virus to spread, and difficult to compare figures with a country like the US in any meaningful way.

They also seem to include suspected covid cases in their figures, not just confirmed cases.

It's not the comparison with the US that's in question, it's the comparison with the Netherlands & other surrounding countries.

 

[eran0004]

Perhaps some countries count deaths from COVID tested positive pneumonias only, while others count deaths from heart and kidney failure which have not been tested, but which the virus is known to attack.

Very possible. There doesn’t seem to be any international standard on how to register these things.

In conclusion, comparisons between countries are pretty difficult to make. The numbers are easier to work with when you compare them to previous figures from the same country.

It's not the comparison with the US that's in question, it's the comparison with the Netherlands & other surrounding countries.

The figures were compared to the US.

Netherlands and other surrounding countries are covered by the second paragraph.
https://www.rivm.nl/en/news/excess-mortality-decreasing-now-also-in-nursing-and-care-homes

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

https://www.euractiv.com/section/co...-transparency-explains-high-virus-death-toll/

 

[Touring Mars]

A friend of mine said 'If Donald Trump's face suddenly starts becoming less orange, you'll know what he's been doing...'

 

[Biggles]

A friend of mine said 'If Donald Trump's face suddenly starts becoming less orange, you'll know what he's been doing...'

Many people are saying: when it gets so bad that you need to have a broadcast by government officials warning people to ignore what the President has just said as it's a danger to public health ... take the hint & get rid of him.