Danoff
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COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)
- Thread starter baldgye
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- 11,751
- Marin County
Thank you Mr Newsom for reading my post, evidently.
Governor Temporarily Closes All Beaches And State Parks In Orange County
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- Lazer0pz
The Northern Hemisphere has 90% of the population anyway. It would make sense that the majority of deaths are around the same area...
Both Australia and New Zealand have already gone well past their peak and 'flattened the curve', so to speak. New Zealand's new cases per day have been in single digits for almost two weeks, and Australia has been between 9-20 new cases for a week.
Both of the countries' borders are closed to non-residents and non-citizens, and residents/citizens that do arrive have mandatory quarantine periods. I can't say for certain what happened in Australia, but as soon as New Zealand had community transmission, the whole country went into lockdown for four weeks. With the number of measures that been put in place, I highly doubt we're going to experience anything nearly as bad as the USA or Europe.
- 6,047
- Simcoeace
One of those "old vulnerable people" who some seem to think could have been left to die so that the economy could stay open.
My next-door neighbour is 97 & a WWII vet. He landed in Normandy, fought with his regiment at the Falaise pocket & then fought his way through France & with other Canadian forces liberated the Netherlands in April 1945. He was shot in the head in Germany a couple of weeks before the end of the war in Europe. He recovered & went on to have a brilliant career receiving (among other honours) the highest grade of the Order of Canada. He was due to be flown by the Canadian government with other Canadians vets to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Holland - sadly cancelled due to the coronavirus. He's a remarkable man, somewhat frail now, but mentally still 100% sharp & very up on current affairs & politics. His life & experience has immeasurable value.
Joey D
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China is not allowing the WHO to participate in the origins of COVID-19:
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-join-chinas-covid-19-investigations-11981193
I guess China realizes that the WHO isn't going to buy whatever BS they are peddling this time around.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavi...-join-chinas-covid-19-investigations-11981193
I guess China realizes that the WHO isn't going to buy whatever BS they are peddling this time around.
Dotini
(Banned)
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- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
China is indeed in the business of peddling. But increasing they are in the business of dictating, too. They are shrewd and strong, and intend to take over the role of #1 superpower. Looks like a fight (hopefully more of a strategic conflict with rules and limits) is on.
It looks as though the OC city council and the Sheriff are refusing to follow Governor Newsom's orders!
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/o-...s-state-orders-closure-of-all-county-beaches/
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- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
Looking more and more likely this was self inflicted.
https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-b...us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741
https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-b...us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741
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- 29,097
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
The paper I cited on the first page of this thread warned of the 'clear and present danger of some SARS-CoVs currently circulating in bats in Southern China', published in September 2019 and funded by the US.
The fact that people are studying this and that it is funded by the USA is not evidence that the virus was manufactured or engineered in any way, but it is a tad coincidental that these labs, based in Wuhan, could well have been handling and storing the virus in question. That data/evidence should exist somewhere.
One analogy I thought of was that if a Zika virus outbreak had begun in Scotland, with several members of staff at the supermarket in Anniesland, Glasgow taken ill first - they might have blamed imported meat or South American coffee beans, while ignoring the fact that there's a virology institute with people (like me) working with live Zika virus particles just a mile down the road, and who use the shop every other day.
Dotini
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I've seen Reddit reports the data/evidence was destroyed.
- 29,097
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
It's not really... there's multiple reasons why that tweet is unfair and misleading, not least the cherry-picked omission of Spain, Italy and France. Also, Belgium (to take just one example) has a higher death rate per head of population (by around 50%) than the UK. Also, mainland Europe has a much lower population density than the UK. Not to mention differences in the way that each country records and reports cases...
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It's not misleading. It's a fact. More people have died in the UK than the countries listed combined and the population stats are correct. Not including Spain, Italy or France has no bearing on the point being made which is specific to the UK and other countries mentioned. You can argue about the death rate in Belgium and the relative population density, I've got no problem with that, they are both good points.
However, the fact still remains we have not done as good a job as many other countries at mitigating the effects of the pandemic. I fully agree that there are circumstances which are not necessarily in our control that have affected that but like Italy, Spain and France we really need to take a good look at our response to determine why we weren't as successful as some others.
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"The UK has had 30 times the Coronavirus deaths of Indonesia. The UK has 67m people. Indonesia around 270m people."
Sure, that's also absolutely true. It's also absolutely useless information. It looks really shocking, but if you dig into the data it's meaningless.
The UK is one of the most densely populated countries on Earth - and contact-spread viruses like densely-packed populations. It has one of the world's biggest transport hubs, in Heathrow Airport, which ensures that the country is not only a destination on its own but a major centre for people going somewhere else from somewhere else. It's at one end of the busiest shipping lane in the world.
The only appropriate comparison is per capita death rates over time since the first death, to places with similar populations and/or similar population densities.
For comparison purposes, the UK's population is around 67m at a density of 700/sqmi. Deaths per capita is now 388 per million, 56 days since the first death.
Belgium, Netherlands, and France all have similar transport and travel connections to the UK. Belgium and Netherlands have fewer people but more densely packed, France has as many people but less densely packed.
Belgium is less populated (11m) but more densely populated (975/sqmi). Deaths per capita there is 669 per million, 50 days since the first death.
Netherlands is less populated (17m) but more densely populated (1000/sqmi). Deaths per capita there is 288 per million, 55 days since the first death.
France is as populated (67m) but less densely populated (300/sqmi). Deaths per capita there is 364 per million, 93 days since the first death (though this was a Chinese tourist).
Suddenly the UK doesn't seem so scandalous when compared to comparable nations...
Joey D
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It's almost like China has something big to hide:
China Warns Australia It Could Face Boycotts Over Call for an Independent Inquiry Into Coronavirus
And hopefully our friends down under don't back down on this either:
Australia to back Taiwan's return to the WHO
I hope other countries get on board with this too. Taiwan is it's own country no matter what China conjures up in its fairy tale land and it should be apart of the WHO if it so chooses. There's also plenty of reports that suggest Taiwan had a fairly positive response to COVID-19 and could've helped identify it sooner if it'd been part of the WHO.
China Warns Australia It Could Face Boycotts Over Call for an Independent Inquiry Into Coronavirus
And hopefully our friends down under don't back down on this either:
Australia to back Taiwan's return to the WHO
I hope other countries get on board with this too. Taiwan is it's own country no matter what China conjures up in its fairy tale land and it should be apart of the WHO if it so chooses. There's also plenty of reports that suggest Taiwan had a fairly positive response to COVID-19 and could've helped identify it sooner if it'd been part of the WHO.
- 6,838
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- GTP_Slim
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Looks like Netherlands have done a decent job, only 75% of our death rate with a 50% higher population density. I'd say France and Belgium should take a long hard look at themselves just like us.
And looking at this graph https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-19-death-rate-vs-population-density there are only three countries, Spain, Andorra & Italy with a lower population density who have a higher death rate than us. We really are one of the outliers on that graph so I'll continue to think it's scandalous the way we have handled this crisis when we are considered as the worlds 5th most powerful country.
Spain and France, in particular, have a lot of soul searching to do and it's looking more likely that Sweden has got it wrong.
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MedigoFlame
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The state of Maine is planning to open up businesses in phases. As of today, hair salons, car dealerships, dog groomers, state parks, outdoor recreation (golf, hunting, fishing), and religious services are reopening. I work at a dealership and don't feel comfortable about the state opening up these businesses this early. It just seems too early in this situation... Especially seeing how many people "don't believe" the situation and refuse to follow the guidelines.
There's one restaurant owner who is opening his business to "defy" the governor's order that dine-in restaurants should stay closed. Of course, most of my social media is flooding with people calling this owner a "hero" and that the governor is a "communist *****."
-sigh-
There's one restaurant owner who is opening his business to "defy" the governor's order that dine-in restaurants should stay closed. Of course, most of my social media is flooding with people calling this owner a "hero" and that the governor is a "communist *****."
-sigh-
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Has your employer made you aware of what precautions they are taking to keep you safe?
DesertPenguin
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The biggest problem with states opening up is that companies are then forcing employees to go back to work and if they choose not to for their own safety they're essentially fired. Why should people who know it's too soon get fired because idiots decided to open up early? This is so messed up
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I agree. And who's at fault if people are infected and die as a result. The state, employer or is it just one of those things?
Danoff
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Jobs do come with risks (see logging, crab fishing, and working a 7/11 in compton). You were at risk of contracting a dangerous disease at a burger king before and are now. That has not changed. The only angle that has really changed here is knowledge. You'd have to claim that burger king was unreasonably negligent in protecting its employees against known risks. If burger king is going by the state health directives, that's a tough ask. Suing the government is always very difficult, because the government is responsible for handling the suit.
MedigoFlame
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They did earlier during the outbreak, they provided disinfectant, hand sanitizer, and gloves. Now that we're opening our showrooms, we were given masks. But I just feel like it's not enough, considering how not every customer will treat the guidelines the same way. They did daily updates at the beginning, but went silent for a while. Not like the updates really did much good as all it did was brag that we were still employed and that no one in the company was infected.
Our dealership has been open since the start of the shutdowns, but we've kept our showroom doors closed and did it by appointment only. At first I didn't really like it, but it sort of felt okay that no one could walk in. But now that people are allowed inside, I just worry about those who don't believe that this is a problem.
On the other hand, my friend who works at the dealership I worked before was told (after taking time off) that if he didn't return they would consider it a "resignation" and he would lose unemployment. Kind of glad I was laid off from that dealership as they couldn't care less about their employees compared to the current one I work at.
It feels more messed up when we had protests about people wanting businesses to open up for their non-essential "needs." Seeing signs like "I want a haircut" disgusts me, especially thinking how these people want to put those who don't want to be at risk to do so for their sake... Some say it's restarting the economy, but I feel like people who want their hair salon reopened just want it because they feel inconvenienced. They're not asking to go back to work, they're demanding that others work so they can live a "normal" life again.
DesertPenguin
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Karens rise up lol
MedigoFlame
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Basically. I remember hearing lawn care was important to them as well...
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And 30% of the population.
You might find it interesting that the Netherlands didn't have a lockdown. Some businesses (restaurants, for example) and schools closed, but ultimately the government merely "advised" people to stay home and be 1.5m apart in public.
The UK tried that, on March 16th, and was widely pilloried, resulting in a full lockdown a week later.
Except for Andorra (which, for similar reasons to San Marino's enormous value, is due to a tiny population; each death skews the numbers by 13/million and 25/million respectively), that's because:
Like France and the Netherlands, people come here to go to other places as much as, or more than, they come here to be here. Heathrow, Schiphol, and Paris CDG are all major hub airports that bring people in from all around the world and send them off to other bits of the world as well as being destinations. You can say the same of London St. Pancras and Paris Gare du Nord, but that's more just within Europe (which was, until recently, COVID central). Belgium, the Netherlands, and France are all the other side of that world's busiest shipping lane too.
A good comparison might be New York. As the nearest big city to this side of the Atlantic, New York also serves as both a travel destination and a gateway through JFK - though it's not as big a hub as O'Hare in Chicago, Hartsfield-Jackson in Atlanta, or DIA, which serve a lot of the USA - and the Port of New York is an extremely important cargo hub. New York State's population is 19m at 415/sqmi. Its death rate is 655/million, 46 days after its first death (though around 5,000 further deaths are suspected, which would make it nearly 900/million).
The chart you posted is also missing the rate change over time since the first death. That's important because it shows how countermeasures impact the death rate per capita. Belgium's lockdown was five days after its first death. Netherlands didn't have one. The UK's was two weeks. France's was 48 days after the first death.
There are only five countries in the world that have at least the UK's population and at least the UK's population density. They are India, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Philippines, and Japan. Nearest to both figures is Italy (60m, 500/sqmi; both lower), and its death rate per capita is 460, 68 days after the first death. It enacted lockdown measures 17 days after the first death.
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