COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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x3ra
I was talking to Blitz. However nicely done Mikey. Do you believe Mikey that everyone who wears a mask, follows the correct procedures to make mask wearing effective? I don't. As a percentage I'd guess less than 10%. I'm not against wearing masks, nowhere have I stated that I am. But they're bloody pointless if you don't use them properly.
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Be specific. What procedures are you talking about. Sanitizing your hands after putting one on? There's no need for that in your home with a mask that hasn't been used in 24 hours. Sanitizing your hands after taking them off? If you're careful about where you touch, again that's not really necessary. If you were doing it in a hospital, yea that'd be necessary.

Give me a break.
 
If the primary transmission method is either via droplets in the air or aerosol and evidence suggests that it is not commonly transmitted by touching objects, then I would think wearing a mask in any capacity is better than not wearing them at all.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
If the primary transmission method is either via droplets in the air or aerosol and evidence suggests that it is not commonly transmitted by touching objects, then I would think wearing a mask in any capacity is better than not wearing them at all.
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Agreed. I'll even take the people that stick their nose out of the top over nothing.
 
x3ra
I was talking to Blitz. However nicely done Mikey. Do you believe Mikey that everyone who wears a mask, follows the correct procedures to make mask wearing effective? I don't. As a percentage I'd guess less than 10%. I'm not against wearing masks, nowhere have I stated that I am. But they're bloody pointless if you don't use them properly. It seems that you need to be fastidious about their use. I don't know many fastidious people and I do know that I'm not one of them either.
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Even an incorrectly worn mask provides better protection than no mask at all. The goal of the mask is to stop your germs from escaping your body when you breathe, cough, sneeze, talk, whatever. So even if you put it just over your mouth like some idiots do and not over your nose, you're still decreasing the viral load that you're spreading. Even if you do touch the mask, you can simply wash or sanitize your hands. I keep a bottle of sanitizer in my car, in my work bag, in my kid's bag, at my home desk, at my work desk, on the counter, and in the bedroom. It's not like it's difficult to get sanitizer now and it's almost as effective as washing your hands.

As for your video, it's trash and it's potentially harmful if people start believing that message. GTP has high standards, we don't need that sort of crap here.
 
x3ra
I was talking to Blitz. However nicely done Mikey. Do you believe Mikey that everyone who wears a mask, follows the correct procedures to make mask wearing effective? I don't. As a percentage I'd guess less than 10%. I'm not against wearing masks, nowhere have I stated that I am. But they're bloody pointless if you don't use them properly. It seems that you need to be fastidious about their use. I don't know many fastidious people and I do know that I'm not one of them either.
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I had no clue you were talking to me. I didn't watch the video and I constantly see people who are wearing their masks covering only their mouths. Is it wrong? Yes. Are they still at risk of getting/transmitting COVID-19? Yes. Does the fact that they covered their mouth reduce some of their risk? Yes.
 
I'm of the opinion that if people actively want to cause me harm, then it's my personal responsibility to protect myself as much as I can. I don't think it's pointless doing this even if other people don't give a crap. The less of a crap they appear to give the more I avoid them. I wish that it were possible to avoid them on videogame forums too.
 
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Yesterday Florida and Texas each recorded more new cases of COVID than New York ever has. Meanwhile California got close as well. I think it's fair to say that the US is in worse shape than the original outbreak.

Meanwhile Colorado has been edging upward, and we got a statewide mask directive for public indoor spaces.
 
Danoff
Yesterday Florida and Texas each recorded more new cases of COVID than New York ever has. Meanwhile California got close as well. I think it's fair to say that the US is in worse shape than the original outbreak.

Meanwhile Colorado has been edging upward, and we got a statewide mask directive for public indoor spaces.
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I agree with your statement that the situation now is worse than ever was.

But aren't tests more readily available now than when the outbreak was happening in NY, making numbers rise faster? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.
 
zzz_pt
I agree with your statement that the situation now is worse than ever was.

But aren't tests more readily available now than when the outbreak was happening in NY, making numbers rise faster? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.
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Yes, testing is way more accessible now in some states. Some states are still doing god knows what when it comes to testing, which certainly isn't helping their situation at all. Tests are more accurate now too than they were a couple of months ago. Many of the tests being used have gone through a couple of version changes as we've learned more and had more time to figure out the best way to identify if someone is infected. There are still false positives and false negatives, but it's getting better.

Cases are certainly on the rise though just due to the fact everything is open and people are moving about. The asinine mask debate isn't helping things either, nor is the utter lack of leadership from government officials.
 
zzz_pt
I agree with your statement that the situation now is worse than ever was.

But aren't tests more readily available now than when the outbreak was happening in NY, making numbers rise faster? I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.
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Taking a random data point at 49 day ago, Florida was sitting at 1k new cases per day (1 week average). Currently they're at 12k, an increase of 1100%. 49 days ago testing was at 20k new tests per day (1 week average). Currently they're at 65k, an increase of 225%. If testing were driving the numbers (as opposed to COVID cases), you'd expect to see no more than about 3.25k new cases per day. They're currently at 4 times that number.


For anyone that didn't follow the above, look at the 2 charts below. Cases is outpacing tests by a lot. It's not tests. California can make a closer case to say that it's tests, though I think that's the tail wagging the dog anyway. The tests are ramping up in part because cases are.

Also check out that spike in Florida's testing around 56 days ago, notice how it doesn't drive the number of cases.

91-DIVOC-states-Florida.png
91-DIVOC-states-Florida (1).png


Edit:

Don't get tricked by the color coding between these plots, the colors used in the first plot are not the same as the ones in the second for all states except florida, which is highlighted blue in both.
 
The graphs shown above are an excellent resource for meaningful comparison between nations and US states...

https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/states-normalized.html

I have been keeping an eye on that page too. Unfortunately, NY is also starting to see a new increase after a long spell of flatlining... Arizona may have peaked at a similar rate as NY saw in March, but Florida is already exceeding the maximum of the NY peak.

It could be, however, that the additional number of cases due to increased testing will boost the peak height somewhat, and of course there will be some variation from state to state for a variety of reasons, but the numbers are still ominous even when additional testing is taken into account. The biggest driver of these increases is behaviour.

-

Meanwhile, the UK Government say that they hope the country will return to 'normal' by November (at the earliest) and 'hopefully' by Christmas - as part of this, they hope to have testing ramped up by the end of October.

Let that sink in for a moment. We hope to have testing ramped up by the end of October...? Kind of puts the whole 'vaccine by the end of the year' nonsense into perspective... one of the most advanced nations in the world (the UK!) can't even promise that universal testing will be in place before the start of winter.
 
Danoff
Taking a random data point at 49 day ago, Florida was sitting at 1k new cases per day (1 week average). Currently they're at 12k, an increase of 1100%. 49 days ago testing was at 20k new tests per day (1 week average). Currently they're at 65k, an increase of 225%. If testing were driving the numbers (as opposed to COVID cases), you'd expect to see no more than about 3.25k new cases per day. They're currently at 4 times that number.


For anyone that didn't follow the above, look at the 2 charts below. Cases is outpacing tests by a lot. It's not tests. California can make a closer case to say that it's tests, though I think that's the tail wagging the dog anyway. The tests are ramping up in part because cases are.

Also check out that spike in Florida's testing around 56 days ago, notice how it doesn't drive the number of cases.

View attachment 941497 View attachment 941498

Edit:

Don't get tricked by the color coding between these plots, the colors used in the first plot are not the same as the ones in the second for all states except florida, which is highlighted blue in both.
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Overall, the statistics are very hard to quantify, as there still seem to be a lot of barely understood factors. One of the things that stands out to me, is the extremely low death rate in Germany. Is that because of control measures - testing, isolation, masks etc. - or is there some other factor involved? In fact, the figures indicate that Germany has done LESS testing per capita than the US. I tend to believe the accuracy of Germany's figures (unlike some other countries). Perhaps they got on top of it much quicker than the US?

Canada would seen to be the most similar country to the US. Although it has a much smaller population, I'm thinking the population distribution is very similar: a few mega-cities, a larger number of large cities, then small towns & large swathes of more rural territory. The infection rate for Canada per capita currently stands at 2,190 per million with deaths at 234 per million. The infection rate for the US is 11,238 per million with deaths at 427 per million. This would seem to indicate that the infection rate in the US is much higher than Canada. The death rate in Canada is a little more than half what it is in the US ... but the death rate relative to the infection rate is much higher in Canada than the US, which doesn't really seem to make sense.
 
R1600Turbo
No way I am wearing a mask for 8+ hours a day at work for multiple years....
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You almost certainly won't have to. But here in the UK, the Government are NOT mandating mask-wearing at work (although I'm sure there are exceptions, e.g. public-facing roles) and they are leaving the decision on mask-wearing to employers. I would imagine the US will be much the same - it will largely be up to employers to decide and enforce mask-wearing as and where it is necessary.

Like most others, you may have to wear a mask at work for a while - but in my work, mask-wearing is not required because other measures have been put in place to render mask-wearing largely unnecessary (home working, lab booking system etc.), but that may change if the infection rate increases again. I'm not looking forward to having to wear a mask to do my job, though.

The big question for me is what happens if employers demand employees wear a mask, but employees refuse. I would imagine in the private sector, employers could just fire those who refuse to wear a mask and hire people who are willing to do so. As such, it may well be a better choice to wear a mask when you are expected to rather than join the masses of newly unemployed people. Now is not a great time to be throwing away a job.

Conversely, employers who make conditions for their workers intolerable or unnecessarily uncomfortable will struggle to hire - the vast majority of employers will have to take reasonable steps to ensure that people can do their jobs without having to wear a mask for more than a few hours at a time, and even then it will hopefully only be for a relatively short length of time (i.e. when infection rates are too high).
 
UKMikey
AP: Republicans eye sweeping shield from coronavirus liability
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I understand what they are trying to do, and agree with it to an extent, but it's going to be badly abused.

Companies that do attempt to follow the rules and act in good faith probably shouldn't have civil action taken against them. However, it's going to be hard to prove it one way or another. I see a ton of frivolous lawsuits arising over COVID, especially when it comes to malpractice among doctors/hospitals.

Ideally, it would be best for the courts to decide, but I can see it getting really costly for certain businesses or health systems.

If a company acts in bad faith though (I'm looking at you Amazon) then employees should absolutely have the right to sue.
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nglands-exaggerated-death-statistics-scandal/

It is astonishing: under these terms, a person who tested positive a few months ago but then gets hit by a bus this week would be recorded as a Covid death. In fact, if left unchanged, every single one of the 292,500 people who have tested positive will some day be a Covid-19 death statistic – even if they live for decades and die of completely unrelated causes. Health Secretary Matt Hancock has ordered an urgent review.
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Interesting article. Is it the same in the US?

The death figures for this virus are totally exaggerated in the UK. Which idiot decided to record deaths this way? And I don't expect anything fruitful to come out of Matt Hancock's mouth, but I'd be happy to be wrong.
 
x3ra
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...nglands-exaggerated-death-statistics-scandal/



Interesting article. Is it the same in the US?

The death figures for this virus are totally exaggerated in the UK. Which idiot decided to record deaths this way? And I don't expect anything fruitful to come out of Matt Hancock's mouth, but I'd be happy to be wrong.
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This isn't even a secret, many if us have claimed this for months. I know this through personal experience. Yes its the same in the US, also they forget fo mention a big percentage of cod deaths are from care homes. Now further compare those numbers with deaths in care home to prior years you can see this is massive scam! I'm not talking about the virus being a scam but the fear and danger of it. People really need to think in simple terms, in Britain 15k people were still coming in Untested from infected countries during lockdown, does that sound like the government are terrified of a virus? Illegals coming in everyday untested and unchallenged, does that sound like the government fear a virus? None of the numbers have ever stacked up on any level.

If this virus was as bad as the fear injected into us we would have no doubts about it. You would see it all around you, with your own eyes and not just a scam test or the meds saying "yea this person probably has covid". That actually happened to someone I know, an old drinking friend who died of a heart attack, was obese, really unfit and unhealthy and often did coke. The longer this goes on the more evident it is fraudulent. For what motive? I suspect many government officials, medical officials etc are getting rich working with China trying to damage our economies. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I'm gonna need an explanation why the media and some politicians are scared only sometimes but never when it's a political issue they support such as illegals and rioters and looters.
 
To put things in perspective, yesterday's update for cases in the US & Canada compared. Similar trajectory until the beginning of June & then ...

Screen Shot 2020-07-18 at 1.03.23 PM copy.jpg


Screen Shot 2020-07-18 at 1.05.07 PM copy.jpg
 
Once again, if death numbers are being claimed to be over-counted whilst studies show they're being under-counted, then I will take the current numbers as generally in the ballpark of accuracy.

COVID-19 death toll underreported, study finds

VCU/Yale study published in Journal of the American Medical Association
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https://www.virginiabusiness.com/article/covid-19-death-toll-underreported-study-finds/

COVID-19 deaths most likely being underreported in the U.S., says GlobalData
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https://www.news-medical.net/news/2...-underreported-in-the-US-says-GlobalData.aspx

BTW,
A: Thanks for linking an article behind a paywall, @x3ra. Proves your point greatly if no one else can see it.
B: Thanks for linking The Telegraph; I'm sure no expected bias is there.
Bias assessment platform Allsides classifies the paper as leaning right, though since 2010 it has been classified as hard right, especially on immigration, Brexit and China. It was fined £30,000 in 2015 for "sending an unsolicited email to hundreds of thousands of its subscribers, urging them to vote for the Conservatives."

Political alignment
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The Telegraph is biased - but it is a good quality paper... it's just the Opinions, Editorials, guest article writers (like Boris Johnson...) and the people who comment on the articles that should generally be avoided.

That said, I reckon the COVID-19 figures are as you suggest @McLaren - probably close to correct but for all the wrong reasons.

There is definitely over-counting (wrongly attributing COVID-19 deaths to people who test positive for SARS-CoV-2) - but there is also likely to be considerable under-counting (people who may die from COVID-19 having never been tested for SARS-CoV-2).

As a result, it is likely that both things are true at the same time (under and over-reporting), but my guess would be that the official figures (from most countries, anyway) are an underestimate.

Of course, the death figures do not take into account the impact(s) of SARS-CoV-2 infection that do not result in death, and that is likely to be very significant - yet there it little to no figures (official or otherwise) on that.
 
McLaren
Once again, if death numbers are being claimed to be over-counted whilst studies show they're being under-counted, then I will take the current numbers as generally in the ballpark of accuracy.
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I think, at least in the UK, there may be an overall over-count in the per week figures now, with the virus relatively suppressed, but there clearly wasn't at the peak (about 9,000 COVID vs 12,500 excess). So at this point it makes essentially no difference to the cumulative figures, however it is important to correct any systemic over-count so we have accurate monitoring from here on. That Telegraph 'comment' article is a massive exaggerration of what has been a minor issue.
 
R1600Turbo
And then the protesting and riots happened.
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That likely didn't increase the COVID case count.

Black Lives Matter Protests, Social Distancing, and COVID-19

The abstract of the paper states:
Furthermore, we find no evidence that urban protests reignited COVID-19 case growth during the more than three weeks following protest onset. We conclude that predictions of broad negative public health consequences of Black Lives Matter protests were far too narrowly conceived.
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