COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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So, new stricter rules for Hamburg have just been announced today.

Private gatherings at home or in public are now limited to 10 people from 2 households (family is an exception).

No traditional Winter Dom happening either. The toughest period is about to start because now the weather will get colder and rainy so people won't go out as much as during the summer and spring.
 
I think we have a limit of 6 people from a max of 2 households...

Meanwhile, I passed a cafe at lunchtime today and it was full... elderly folk, toddlers, parents... '1m social distancing', not sure that was in practice - well, it definitely wasn't at individual tables, which kind of defeats the purpose.
 
This whole thing has highlighted the stupidity of people.

Early days--well before any meaningful attempt at shutdown, but far enough in that personal protection was being endorsed--I went into the cafeteria at work to get some lunch, and I'm there standing in line when I see a guy at the table nearest the half wall of the dining area, wearing nitrile gloves as he eats a sandwich. Okay. I glance over again and notice some grime on the gloves. I get it iin my head--and I still can't think of any alternative--that someone told him he needs to wear gloves to protect himself and others, and so he puts a pair of gloves on in the morning and doesn't take them off until he gets off work. How I didn't start retching right there, I don't know, but I certainly lost my appetite and got out of line to get a sparkling water from the overpriced vending machine before heading back up to my office.

Speaking of stupidity at work, about a month ago one of my colleagues went to wedding and he was driving people home, after wedding 3 people were tested positive. My colleague was never tested although he couldn't smell anything for a week, he never told anyone about his symptoms and didn't wear a mask.
And as stupid as he is he decided to told us now, it's basically a miracle I didn't catch it, because he works next door and I occasionally use equipment in his workroom, not to mention shared things like restroom, etc. (or I don't have smell loss as covid indicator).

And another example of stupidity, now on government level:
https://www.expats.cz/czech-news/ar...phed-without-a-mask-outside-prague-restaurant
 
So San Francisco is opening back up and my office has formally announced plans to end WFH. I can't help but feel like this is going to be a disaster. I get that the city has performed well...but in light of COVID cases going up all around the country, it seems premature. Office workers to SF come from everywhere within 100 miles (and further!) of the city, and the population goes up well over 200,000 during a typical weekday. It doesn't really mean anything that the city itself has done well if you are introducing that many new people every day.

OUR BUBBLE IS SAFE SO LETS LET EVERYONE IN
 
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instead of making it all about you.

Really? You're going with that?
I constantly see people with masks that are sagging down their faces, or getting grabbed and adjusted to cover their nose, or sit better. I do not understand why surgical masks are not more common. Poorly fitting masks has people touching the outside of the mask and exposing their nose, and probably breathing worse and costing more.

It's so bizarre.

A couple of months ago I bought (by mistake) a package of "children's" surgical masks. They cover less of the face, but they fit very tightly (& not uncomfortably) around the mouth & nose area. The regular sized surgical masks have more of a tendency to gap open or slide down.
 
Sad to see Van Morrison make a total arse of himself with his anit-lockdown "protest" songs.

His latest effort is nothing short of an embarrassment, with some frankly disgraceful lyrics.

https://exclaim.ca/music/article/van_morrisons_latest_anti-lockdown_song_is_here_and_it_sucks

No more lockdown / No more government overreach / No more fascist bullies / Disturbing our peace / No more taking of our freedom / And our God given rights / Pretending it's for our safety / When it's really to enslave

It pains me to see someone I admire so much make such horrendous comments, esp. in his music. I'm a massive fan of Van Morrison, but this leaves a very sour taste in the mouth.


 
Really? You're going with that?

Yes. When Trump talks about himself rather than the pandemic in the country he's supposed to be leading, it seems fitting. I mean, we're all aware of his narcissism at this point. The random political pandering bothers me less than his fixation on himself to the detriment of the hundreds of thousands of dead.

It pains me to see someone I admire so much make such horrendous comments, esp. in his music. I'm a massive fan of Van Morrison, but this leaves a very sour taste in the mouth.

Freedom is important, but it feels like a lot of modern America has gotten so caught up in the idea of freedom that it's forgotten that social responsibility is also important. I feel like a lot of the countries that handled this well are ones where there's a strong culture of social responsibility.
 
TB
@Touring Mars - And because of who he, and others, is/are, people will follow them with not masking, distancing and quarantining.
I'm not sure about that. Maybe a handful of people will be swayed, but certainly nothing meaningful like "massive increase in coronavirus cases following release of protest songs by Irish singer-songwriter Van Morrison, best known for 1967 hit 'Brown Eyed Girl.'" This sort of thing, particularly from someone like Van, simply panders to those who already think the same way.

Similarly, I don't think he's going to take a big hit. Maybe a slight tick, but certainly no "Irish singer-songwriter Van Morrison destitute as streams of 1967 hit 'Brown Eyed Girl' decline following release of songs protesting government response to coronavirus epidemic."

Celebrities absolutely have sway, but I think that sway has a pretty low threshold. Suppose Beyonce announces she's going vegan as part of a healthy lifestyle. Assuming she hasn't already, I think such an announcement may get fans to think about their own eating habits and cut meat and animal byproducts out of their diet either partly or entirely. But if Beyonce announces she's going vegan for ethical concerns, assuming she hasn't already, I think far fewer fans are going to be willing to make the same concession.

I love Van's music dearly, and I'm not going to change the station if "Brown Eyed Girl" comes on the rad--...bad example, as I'm so far beyond tired of that song. I love Van's music dearly, and I'm not going to change the station if "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" comes on the radio because of this.

I think this really emphasizes something I've said on numerous occasions, which is that people who have a platform absolutely get to use it, and other people don't object to them using their platform, rather they disagree with the message being conveyed.
 
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@TexRex - With my previous comment, I didn't intend to imply that there would be a massive uptick in cases (or people going vegan :P) because of a song. It inevitably will, I believe, reconfirm the notion of the people that already think the same way when someone... higher profile(?) than your average person does something like this. It's precisely why the difference between what Fauchi says versus what Trump says has divided the country and as a result cost lives.
 
So this is where we're at now:

Health care rationing coming amid soaring COVID-19 cases, says Utah Hospital Association

In short, what this means is hospitals are going to start deciding on who gets an ICU bed vs who doesn't and, in cases, who gets hospitalized and who doesn't. Unfortunately, those most at risk of hospitalization are also at the most risk of not getting care. A 35-year-old who's fairly healthy and has a high chance of survival from a COVID infection would get the ICU bed, while the 75-year-old with COPD wouldn't. It's basically what happened in Italy.

The issue isn't space or supplies either, it's staffing. Pretty much every nurse has gone from work 36 hours a week to working nearly 60 hours, which is dangerous for the nurse and the patient. Imagine having a nurse who's worked four 12 hour shifts in a row trying to start an IV while so tried they can't see straight. I know the laws have relaxed a bit on who can take care of patients, but when it comes to patients in the ICU you still need a certain level of training.

This is also going to be really detrimental to the surrounding states too. Since SLC is one of the few major metro areas in the region, it ends up taking critical patients from Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Western Colorado, and Eastern Nevada. We've since stopped taking any of these patients, which means someone who was attacked by a bear in Wyoming (it happens more than you think) will end up at some podunk hospital instead of coming to a hospital that's equipped to deal with that trauma.

All this because people refuse to wear a 🤬 mask, which according to the Utah Hospital Association would cut our cases roughly in half.
 
Freedom is important, but it feels like a lot of modern America has gotten so caught up in the idea of freedom that it's forgotten that social responsibility is also important. I feel like a lot of the countries that handled this well are ones where there's a strong culture of social responsibility.

yep, especially asian countries where it is not so much about individualism.
 
"I think"...

How come the case rates go up whenever governments ease lockdown measures, open shops and send students back to schools and colleges? I bet those people aren't over it.
 
Honestly I think a lot of people are over it. And I don't blame them
I don't blame them either. It is clear that people across the world have had enough of it already... but this is precisely what makes mitigation steps (like mask wearing) all the more important.

The same paradox has been true since the very beginning, which is that if we wish to maintain some semblance of normality, we must be prepared to alter our behaviour to some extent. The alternatives are grim. By not altering our behaviour and thinking we can return to normal, millions of people risk long term damage to their health (of which death is but the most extreme form) - and, as a consequence of that, we all (paradoxically) face more, tougher and longer spells of enforced behavioural change - and by that I don't just mean government mandated action... I mean entire sectors of industry (cinema, air travel, sport, the arts, high street shops etc.) disappearing because they are not safe to operate without the full cooperation of their customers and, perhaps more significantly, their staff and their peers (i.e. if one pub decides to ignore safety protocols, all pubs pays the price).

This latter point is what must be driving business owners mad - the vast majority of people and business owners are bending over backwards to do what they can to make their businesses and public services safe... but a small but significant minority are wrecking it for the rest of us.
 
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A rather depressing article on our current predicament.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/26/9270...ial-distancing-can-destroy-the-global-economy

You're Not Welcome Here: How Social Distancing Can Destroy The Global Economy
October 26, 20202:03 PM ET

PALLAVI GOGOI


gettyimages-1280888785-649df4edb5c9547b7d1001a56c3769fb4e6fe7a2-s800-c85.jpg




Stay out.

It's what people are being asked to tell each other. Less than 10 days ago, London banned people who live in different households from meeting each other indoors, to stop the spread of the coronavirus.

"Nobody wants to see more restrictions, but this is deemed to be necessary in order to protect Londoners' lives," London Mayor Sadiq Khan told the London Assembly.

Taking away the welcome mat is key to cutting off the path of the coronavirus. From the beginning of the pandemic, cities, states and countries have banned each other. And now, eight months into lockdowns that have led to immense stress and fatigue among people, some places around the world are introducing even more draconian measures.

The path toward recovery continues to be inherently antisocial and runs counter to how humans interact, live lives and conduct their business. This unwelcome policy — which has already harmed families, societies and economies — has the potential to lead to a tectonic shift in how the world functions in the foreseeable future.


Europe Imposes New Restrictions As COVID-19 Cases Soar

"The coronavirus pandemic could be the straw that breaks the camel's back of economic globalization," according to Robin Niblett, director of the think tank Chatham House, in a Foreign Policy article.

Specifically, the global supply chain is very much at risk. Tax deductions in the U.S. designed to bring back jobs in pharmaceuticals, medical supplies, electronics and auto manufacturing have led companies to invest heavily in production in this country in the last few years.

"The needs that surfaced during the pandemic to bolster supply chain resilience may further accelerate such moves," according to Moody's Investors Service Senior Vice President Robard Williams.

Social distancing brought mighty economies to their knees

The entire world's economy has shrunk dramatically. The pandemic delivered the most severe blow to the U.S. economy since the Great Depression as gross domestic product collapsed and millions of jobs were lost.

"This recession was by far the deepest one in postwar history," Richard Clarida, vice chair of the Federal Reserve, noted in a speech.



A Smarter Approach To Lockdowns

A robust economy is dependent upon the movement of goods and people. For instance, restaurants need people to meet, socialize and break bread together. Airlines and hotels need people to travel to conduct business or to see family and friends or new places.

But all that has been vastly reduced. And the effect of that social distancing has been deadly on many businesses. Restaurants have been among the hardest hit. According to Yelp data, more than 60% of restaurants that have closed are permanent, followed by retail stores that sell clothing and home decor (58%) and beauty stores and spas (42%). Airline travel is down around 70%, and hotel occupancy is at record lows.

"Social distancing has stilled our strong economy," said Eric Rosengren, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.

Social distancing is exhausting but works in some places

What's worse is that despite long and extensive social distancing, there are signs that it has not worked everywhere — especially in freer societies. In fact, more than lockdown orders, it is people's fears that have a larger impact on their economic behavior, some researchers have found.

The latest signs of increased cases in the U.S. and Europe are even more disheartening for people who feel they have endured a lot.

So, why are governments continuing to rely on lockdowns? That's because it's proven that aggressive social distancing does work in countries where the state can enforce strict shutdowns.



China's Economy Bounces Back As Pandemic Is Brought Under Control

In China, where severe lockdowns were enforced in many parts of the country, the coronavirus has been wrestled to the ground. In Wuhan, ground zero of the virus, recent reports cite crowded water parks and night markets. Domino's Pizza recorded such a huge improvement in sales in the country in recent months that it prompted CEO Richard Allison to call China "a terrific success story in 2020."

But the Chinese form of enforcement is hard to achieve in democratic societies, most of which are pinning their hopes on a vaccine.

Some of the largest cities in the West are putting in place even more draconian social distancing measures to combat the virus. Paris is under curfew starting at 9 each night. And in London, you can't even visit or invite a neighbor over for dinner.

But it's unclear if people in these societies will strictly follow these guidelines or how enforcement will work. It's already taken a huge toll on the psyche of the populace of many countries. No wonder most people worry that the longer social distancing goes on, a higher price will be paid by households, society and the economy.
 
What I find disconcerting is that Halloween in many locations appears to be going forward with trick or treating.
 
What I find disconcerting is that Halloween in many locations appears to be going forward with trick or treating.
Not surprising when the current administration has literally thrown in the towel. We're 1 press conference away from Scott Atlas giving a briefing basically adopting a herd immunity strategy.
 
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Not surprising when the current administration has literally thrown in the towel. We're 1 press conference away from Scott Atlas giving a briefing basically adopting a herd immunity strategy.
There are four ways for the pandemic to end:
1. Vaccine
2. Herd immunity
3. Virus burns itself out
4. Everyone dies

1 might take awhile longer. 2 is unlikely as this virus seems to mutate enough to prevent the situation. 3 is only possible if the death rate were like ebola. Option 4, ironically, would also cause 2 and 3 as well. There's only one drawback, not sure what it is though.
 
Honestly I think a lot of people are over it. And I don't blame them

I do blame them, in fact, I pin the deaths of people on them because they're too selfish and too stupid to comprehend what's going on.

It's getting exhausting trying to explain to people that what's happening right now in many states is serious. Healthcare systems are right on the verge of being completely overrun, something that is so incredibly rare that it's hard to make concrete plans about it. But no matter what path a health system takes, it all ends up with the same result, people dying needlessly because they can't get the care that they need. No health system wants to let people die, but when resources are finite there's not much of a choice.
 
Double post, but I feel like this is important to share. I've been seeing a bunch of talk about how hospitals will decide to ration care, so I figured I'd go looking for the document. We have it internally, which I can't share, but the department of health has one that's fairly similar.

hKtZzD0.png


This is for more than just COVID too, it's for any patient coming into the hospital. So if you're 35, been attacked by a cougar, and are in a trauma situation, you'd be put at a 6 or 7 meaning you're only going to get saved if there are resources available. The same goes for people in car accidents, hit by a train (this happens a lot in Salt Lake), shot, stabbed, blown up, etc. It's not just traumas either, if you're 40, have cancer, and need a tumor removed, you're at a 7. If you have down syndrome, that's an automatic 3 points regardless of age. And if you're old, have a critical condition, and will likely not survive, then you're pretty much sent home to die in your bed ( I mean there's more to it than that, but still).

Basically, anyone with a 6+ score faces the very real possibility of not getting the care that they need. And the older you get, the greater than chance becomes. Weirdly enough the population who's most affected by this is the same population running around spouting that COVID is a hoax, our lord and savior Don the Con is right, and we're overreacting because of the flu.

This isn't just Utah either, this is being considered in several places right now and states like New York and Michigan had already had to consider all this once before.

Thankfully, our head doc e-mailed us today and said we have a whole host of contingency plans. They're all internal of course, but it at least gives me some hope that we can buy a little more time. Unfortunately, with flu season underway, those contingency plans could dry up really quick.

I've never in my life hated the general public more than I do right now. We're all on the verge of being 🤬 because they can't be bothered to wear a mask and follow really simple rules.
 
Double post, but I feel like this is important to share. I've been seeing a bunch of talk about how hospitals will decide to ration care, so I figured I'd go looking for the document. We have it internally, which I can't share, but the department of health has one that's fairly similar.

hKtZzD0.png


This is for more than just COVID too, it's for any patient coming into the hospital. So if you're 35, been attacked by a cougar, and are in a trauma situation, you'd be put at a 6 or 7 meaning you're only going to get saved if there are resources available. The same goes for people in car accidents, hit by a train (this happens a lot in Salt Lake), shot, stabbed, blown up, etc. It's not just traumas either, if you're 40, have cancer, and need a tumor removed, you're at a 7. If you have down syndrome, that's an automatic 3 points regardless of age. And if you're old, have a critical condition, and will likely not survive, then you're pretty much sent home to die in your bed ( I mean there's more to it than that, but still).

Basically, anyone with a 6+ score faces the very real possibility of not getting the care that they need. And the older you get, the greater than chance becomes. Weirdly enough the population who's most affected by this is the same population running around spouting that COVID is a hoax, our lord and savior Don the Con is right, and we're overreacting because of the flu.

This isn't just Utah either, this is being considered in several places right now and states like New York and Michigan had already had to consider all this once before.

Thankfully, our head doc e-mailed us today and said we have a whole host of contingency plans. They're all internal of course, but it at least gives me some hope that we can buy a little more time. Unfortunately, with flu season underway, those contingency plans could dry up really quick.

I've never in my life hated the general public more than I do right now. We're all on the verge of being 🤬 because they can't be bothered to wear a mask and follow really simple rules.
Your graph just helps solidify us people who think this was population control from the get go with a dash of international biological warfare.
 
All this helps us solidify a case for most people don’t give a **** about others and anything else unless it directly affects them negatively right now. Sometimes even if it affects them negatively as long as someone else gets screwed over harder it’s ok.
 
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