COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

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A healthcare worker makes a plea that the hospitals in her area might not be able to keep up if infections that turn bad,keep showing up for treatment .

 
Biggles
I guess the reason for vaccinating prisoners is to try & prevent large scale outbreaks in a population that has no possibility of physically distancing. And clearly the vast majority of incarcerated individuals didn't kill their families - many of them are in for drug possession offences. Get a grip Joey!

I think you've got a point about older people - most of them are retired & don't need to expose themselves to the virus on a daily basis. It does mean that there would have to be services to provide them with necessities of life though. All-in-all I can see that it's a pretty complicated situation. Do you start with the most vulnerable to dying ... or the most likely to be infected?
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I still don't think prisoners should get the vaccine before teachers. I'm not saying don't vaccinate them, I'm saying don't vaccinate them in wave 1b. Also, if the guards and workers at the prisoners are vaccinated, then the prisoners themselves wouldn't really need to worry about being infected with COVID since you know, they don't really have access to the outside world. While there are certainly many reasons people end up in prison, I'm not inclined to give them benefits over someone else since a vast majority are in prison due to violating the rights of others. I don't know the statistics for other states, but here in Utah 31% of the prison population are there for sex-related crimes, 24% are there for property-related crimes, 19% are there for person-on-person crimes, and 10% are there for murder. Drug charges make up less than 10% of the prison population since it's Utah and illegal drugs aren't exactly what we're known for. We've also had just a little over 2,500 cases of COVID at our jails and prisons since March, which is less than what the rest of the state averages per day.

There are plenty of services for elderly people too. As I said, they get a check from the government every month and their healthcare is covered. They can order groceries and have them delivered, same with medications and other medical necessities. There are also plenty of people who would willingly volunteer to deliver these items to a parent, grandparent, or elderly neighbor. I know the Mormon church here has been doing this since the pandemic began and they simply just get what the person needs and leaves it on their porch.

I want to start with the most public-facing people who have the highest likelihood to be infected, which for the most part is anyone considered a "front-line worker". A cashier at a grocery store is within a few feet of hundreds of people every single time they work. The same goes for anyone in a service industry or who works with public transportation. If we're going to do ages, we really should focus on 18-50 year-olds since those tend to be the group with the highest hospitalization rate. We need to reduce hospitalizations as quickly as possible since there are still many areas where people who have non-COVID related issues are struggling to get a bed, especially if they need the ICU. Also, if you reduce hospitalizations, then you've now opened up space for the elderly who think that they need to be doing god knows what outside the house right now.
 
Joey D
I still don't think prisoners should get the vaccine before teachers. I'm not saying don't vaccinate them, I'm saying don't vaccinate them in wave 1b. Also, if the guards and workers at the prisoners are vaccinated, then the prisoners themselves wouldn't really need to worry about being infected with COVID since you know, they don't really have access to the outside world. While there are certainly many reasons people end up in prison, I'm not inclined to give them benefits over someone else since a vast majority are in prison due to violating the rights of others. I don't know the statistics for other states, but here in Utah 31% of the prison population are there for sex-related crimes, 24% are there for property-related crimes, 19% are there for person-on-person crimes, and 10% are there for murder. Drug charges make up less than 10% of the prison population since it's Utah and illegal drugs aren't exactly what we're known for. We've also had just a little over 2,500 cases of COVID at our jails and prisons since March, which is less than what the rest of the state averages per day.

There are plenty of services for elderly people too. As I said, they get a check from the government every month and their healthcare is covered. They can order groceries and have them delivered, same with medications and other medical necessities. There are also plenty of people who would willingly volunteer to deliver these items to a parent, grandparent, or elderly neighbor. I know the Mormon church here has been doing this since the pandemic began and they simply just get what the person needs and leaves it on their porch.

I want to start with the most public-facing people who have the highest likelihood to be infected, which for the most part is anyone considered a "front-line worker". A cashier at a grocery store is within a few feet of hundreds of people every single time they work. The same goes for anyone in a service industry or who works with public transportation. If we're going to do ages, we really should focus on 18-50 year-olds since those tend to be the group with the highest hospitalization rate. We need to reduce hospitalizations as quickly as possible since there are still many areas where people who have non-COVID related issues are struggling to get a bed, especially if they need the ICU. Also, if you reduce hospitalizations, then you've now opened up space for the elderly who think that they need to be doing god knows what outside the house right now.
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Like I say: it's not easy. If tens of thousands of prisoners get sick, how do you deal with the healthcare ramifications? Yes, it would make sense to vaccinate the staff first - I would guess that they are - but Covid is obviously already present in the prison population.
 
Biggles
Like I say: it's not easy. If tens of thousands of prisoners get sick, how do you deal with the healthcare ramifications? Yes, it would make sense to vaccinate the staff first - I would guess that they are - but Covid is obviously already present in the prison population.
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The staff, here at least, aren't scheduled to get the vaccine until the same time the prisoners do. We can't even get through the hospital staff appropriately because we just don't have the doses to give. We were supposed to be receiving something like 9,000 doses a week and we're getting 1,900 because the federal government is dictating where things go. We're going to be lucky to get healthcare workers by March or April when we were initially planning on January.

And what do you do if the prison population gets COVID? The same thing you do when an outbreak happens anywhere, you quartine the people, except it far easier to do this in a prison than it is to do in say, a meatpacking plant. Breakouts are going to happen all over the place, which is why I want people like teachers and grocery store workers to be after healthcare workers. A school breakout would carry far more ramifications than a prison breakout (of COVID, not of the inmates).
 
Looks like that UK strain has been discovered in Colorado. Raising some concerns, but afaik, the strain hasn't been proven to be any deadlier or immune to the vaccine. Worse case, the strain re-infects people who already had Covid?
 
McLaren
Looks like that UK strain has been discovered in Colorado. Raising some concerns, but afaik, the strain hasn't been proven to be any deadlier or immune to the vaccine. Worse case, the strain re-infects people who already had Covid?
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We're not sure yet, but I think the lack of confirmed reinfection cases in the UK at least somewhat suggests that you can't be reinfected with the new variant. However, what preliminary evidence is suggesting is that while the new variant isn't any more deadly, it is more transmissible by as much as 70%.

And the reason it's in the US is likely due to the inability of our government to act, since it said there was no reason to ban flights from the UK.
 
McLaren
Looks like that UK strain has been discovered in Colorado. Raising some concerns, but afaik, the strain hasn't been proven to be any deadlier or immune to the vaccine. Worse case, the strain re-infects people who already had Covid?
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Joey D
We're not sure yet, but I think the lack of confirmed reinfection cases in the UK at least somewhat suggests that you can't be reinfected with the new variant. However, what preliminary evidence is suggesting is that while the new variant isn't any more deadly, it is more transmissible by as much as 70%.
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In NL, it looks like this strain is causing an overflow of patients in hospitals. Contrary to March (which was a very high, but relatively short peak of incoming patients), this looks more like a tsunami: a relatively low, but steady and relentless inflow of patients. So in a graph, this is not a very high peak, but a very wide bulge. This one is actually more draining on hospitals than the one from March. With hospital staff dropping out (because over-tired, getting Covid, etc.), we're already seeing hospitals close down for regular care, despite declining absolute numbers (deaths actually down by 47% or so for hospitalized COVID patients). The bottleneck is educated hospital staff now.
 
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NLxAROSA
In NL, it looks like this strain is causing an overflow of patients in hospitals. Contrary to March (which was a very high, but relatively short peak of incoming patients), this looks more like a tsunami: a relatively low, but steady and relentless inflow of patients. So in a graph, this is not a very high peak, but a very wide bulge. This one is actually more draining on hospitals than the one from March. With hospital staff dropping out (because over-tired, getting Covid, etc.), we're already seeing hospitals close down for regular care, despite declining absolute numbers (deaths actually down by 47% or so for hospitalized COVID patients). The bottleneck is educated hospital staff now.
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Given how much more transmissible it seems to be, this makes sense. I'm not sure what lockdown/mask adoption is like in the Netherlands, but I can certainly foresee a more infectious virus causing havoc with the healthcare system, especially if the severity of the virus remains the same. To maintain the status quo, we'd need to see infectivity go up while severity goes down.

It's going to be awful for any country that gets these new strains and doubly awful for countries that don't take precautions seriously. The US is probably even more boned than it already was.
 
Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine approved for use in UK

However, this isn't great:
Trials showed two full doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab were 95% effective at preventing infection, while the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine showed 62% effectiveness - although even in cases where people were infected, there were no cases of serious illness.

Trials of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine also showed that when people were given a half dose then a full dose, effectiveness hit 90%.

But there was not enough clear data to approve the half-dose, full-dose idea.

However, unpublished data suggests that leaving a longer gap between the first and second doses increases the overall effectiveness of the jab - in the sub-group given the vaccine this way it was found to be 70% effective after the first dose.
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Hope that data gets published soon and more results will come in on the half-then-full dose schedule, and that the approval is revised.

The article also gives a reasonable roundup of the plan for vaccinating, mentioning a goal of 2 million doses a week and that more than 25 million people are in priority groups (includes everyone down to age 50). By my math, near enough 6 months for all priority groups, or over 3 months to include those down to age 65 and those with underlying conditions, although the article does note that the numbers given for each group overlap.

edit: slightly edited some of the above since BBC has a really annoying habit of editing their articles for hours after posting them, with no clear indication of what changed. In this case, one change was the tacked on note regarding 70% effectiveness. I think this bit about having a greater focus on giving the first jab may be new or revised as well:
The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) has authorised two full doses of the Oxford vaccine, with the second dose to be given four to 12 weeks after the first.

The immunisation campaign will now shift to giving as many people as possible their first dose of vaccine with a second dose following within that period.

When the Pfizer-BioNTech jab rollout began, the aim was to give the second dose after three weeks.

But based on advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation, the aim now is to give as many vulnerable people some protection from Covid-19, irrespective of the jab they are given.
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When you realize that some third world countries are doing better jobs at dealing with this virus than some super power first world nations.

It's hilarious yet depressing.
 
ToyGTone
When you realize that some third world countries are doing better jobs at dealing with this virus than some super power first world nations.

It's hilarious yet depressing.
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I don't know how much you can rely on the accuracy of the statistics - especially those coming out of poorer countries. I'm guessing that the key factors are the amount of international & regional travel, the density of population, the amount of social distancing available within that density & the ability & willingness of the population to comply with Covid regulations. I find it very hard to believe that places like India & Bangladesh have infection & mortality rates as low as reported.
 
Welp, we're heading for a 3rd lockdown after tomorrow. We just registered over 1700 new cases today, and with an R0 of 1.6-1.8 it'll only get worse.
 
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The third world countries that seem to be doing fine (tmk) are the ones located in the East Asia/Oceania regions, and that entire chunk of the world seem to be only ones ahead of everyone else.

Don't know how South America is doing outside Brazil or Africa outside of South Africa. Don't hear much about the Middle East anymore if it doesn't concern war.
 
Biggles
I don't know how much you can rely on the accuracy of the statistics - especially those coming out of poorer countries. I'm guessing that the key factors are the amount of international & regional travel, the density of population, the amount of social distancing available within that density & the ability & willingness of the population to comply with Covid regulations. I find it very hard to believe that places like India & Bangladesh have infection & mortality rates as low as reported.
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I agree with what factors in the controlling of the situation but still...
McLaren
The third world countries that seem to be doing fine (tmk) are the ones located in the East Asia/Oceania regions, and that entire chunk of the world seem to be only ones ahead of everyone else.
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I didn't know East Asia were third world nations but sure, i guess using masks regularly and obeying the lockdowns helps instead of protesting in a lifited 3500 RAM about freedom or something. I dunno man but that being said, i'm surprised there's very few active cases in the nation where this thing originated from . Sounds oddly suspicious tbh.
Don't know how South America is doing outside Brazil or Africa outside of South Africa. Don't hear much about the Middle East anymore if it doesn't concern war.
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I kinda understand that most people only cares about their region or major ones so that makes sense.
 
I'm currently sitting in a tire shop waiting to get an alignment completed. Including myself, there are 7 people in the waiting room. I'm the only one wearing a mask.
 
McLaren
The third world countries that seem to be doing fine (tmk) are the ones located in the East Asia/Oceania regions, and that entire chunk of the world seem to be only ones ahead of everyone else.

Don't know how South America is doing outside Brazil or Africa outside of South Africa. Don't hear much about the Middle East anymore if it doesn't concern war.
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South America in general is doing very badly - not just Brazil. Peru, Argentina, Chile & Colombia all have very high rates of infections & death. Also, of course, Mexico. Panama also has high numbers, but El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras & Nicaragua do not. I assume it has something to do with the amount of international travel, but it's hard to know for sure. Infections & deaths per capita in India are purportedly about 10% of what they are in the US. In Bangladesh they are 5%. It's hard to make sense of this.

R1600Turbo
I'm currently sitting in a tire shop waiting to get an alignment completed. Including myself, there are 7 people in the waiting room. I'm the only one wearing a mask.
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Lack of compliance with basic precautions seems to be endemic in the US & probably accounts for the continuing acceleration of cases. In Canada, mask wearing seems to be pretty much universal & infection rates & deaths have, for months, been consistently at around 40% of those in the US.
 
Biggles
Lack of compliance with basic precautions seems to be endemic in the US & probably accounts for the continuing acceleration of cases.
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The establishment didn't even have signs up saying that masks were required inside. But they also had a sign behind the counter that said something along the lines of "if the government gives you something, it came from someone else" so that probably tells you enough about the owners.
 
Biggles
Lack of compliance with basic precautions seems to be endemic in the US & probably accounts for the continuing acceleration of cases. In Canada, mask wearing seems to be pretty much universal & infection rates & deaths have, for months, been consistently at around 40% of those in the US.
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It's mostly because of certain groups believing they have freedom to do what they want in private establishments that they do not own (stores/offices/shops).
 
The local mechanic that I use for most routine car stuff does not even allow customers into his office. You call him when you arrive & he meets you outside.
 
The founder of the Scottish brewery Brewdog has offered all of their closed premises to the UK and Scottish governments as temporary vaccination centres, citing the fact that they have refrigeration facilities and waiting areas available for use. Tesco have also offered their distribution network to help with the vaccine rollout.

Supermarkets could also be temporarily repurposed, with massive car parks, spacious indoor facilities and loads of refrigeration facilities too, so I wouldn't be surprised if some other supermarket chains offer their services too.

As has been mentioned in this thread before though, a bigger and more troubling issue is the gradual loss of trained frontline medical staff in our hospitals. This, above pretty much everything is, will be the mark of how well or how badly the pandemic has been managed, and I totally agree with @Joey D that healthcare staff ought to be right at the top of the vaccination priority list. It is one thing to train people in how to give jabs, it's quite another to train people in frontline healthcare provision.
 
Biden's inauguration will host a nationwide memorial for Covid victims.
The Presidential Inaugural Committee announced Thursday that it would host a nationwide memorial honoring those who have died from the coronavirus the day before President-elect Joe Biden is sworn into office.

The committee said that cities and towns around the country will be invited to light up their buildings and ring church bells at 5:30 p.m. ET on Jan. 19 in a "national moment of unity and remembrance." A ceremony will also be held at the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool in Washington.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...al-announced-part-biden-inauguration-n1252591
 
So the UK Government have decided to cancel the second jab, which was due to start next week, for those who have already received the first jab. Seems they want to have as many people as possible to have the first jab. They are looking at changing the time between doses from three weeks to 12 weeks. The only problem is, Pfizer has released a statement to say their vaccine is untested under these conditions and that it was designed so that the two doses should be given 21 days apart. They also said there is no data to suggest that the first jab will be effective for more than 21 days.
 
PzR Slim
So the UK Government have decided to cancel the second jab, which was due to start next week, for those who have already received the first jab. Seems they want to have as many people as possible to have the first jab. They are looking at changing the time between doses from three weeks to 12 weeks. The only problem is, Pfizer has released a statement to say their vaccine is untested under these conditions and that it was designed so that the two doses should be given 21 days apart. They also said there is no data to suggest that the first jab will be effective for more than 21 days.
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And this is why politicians should not play doctor.
 

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