COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[TexRex]

The percentages of who's catching it & ending up in the hospital has flipped from old to young. That's an easy cause of concern.

But cancer!

 

[McLaren]

But cancer!

Yep. If they care that much about cancer, then they should be supporting any attempt to curb Covid (instead of downplaying how bad it is) & support vaccine measures to help do so. Cancer patients are a high risk group and many can not get th.....


Sorry. I went well past the line for their actual cause of concern.

 

[sirjim73]

In relation to raw numbers of the younger age group in the UK:

Covid: Fifth of England hospital admissions aged 18-34

The new NHS chief executive urges unvaccinated young adults to get jabbed, saying it is "so important".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Nielsen]

The percentages of who's catching it & ending up in the hospital has flipped from old to young. That's an easy cause of concern.

Not surprising when the elderly in most developed countries have received the vaccine fully whereas the younger haven’t. I’m willing to bet the hospitalized elders were sicker back then than the younger people hospitalized now, but the media would never approach it from this angle. Always remember to wear your critical lenses when reading the news, because it paints everything to match their own interests.

Such an ignorant statement to make.

Long COVID questions and answers

COVID-19 can have lasting symptoms that affect many parts of the body. Learn more about the symptoms and effects of long COVID.

www.mayoclinic.org

Seriously, most of the things listed there have always affected people on a daily basis. More than half of it might as well be attributed to stress, and the human stress factor should not be underestimated when an entire planet is burdened by pandemic and lockdowns.

The most striking symptom is probably loss of smell or taste, but back in 2007 I actually had a colleague who struggled with his taste sensation for months after he suffered a bad flu.

 

[McLaren]

Not surprising when the elderly in most developed countries have received the vaccine fully whereas the younger haven’t. I’m willing to bet the hospitalized elders were sicker back then than the younger people hospitalized now, but the media would never approach it from this angle. Always remember to wear your critical lenses when reading the news, because it paint everything to match their own interests.

It's like pulling teeth with you two. I'm not going to post this a 4th time.

UF Health Jacksonville is once again filling up with patients battling Covid-19. They are younger — many are in their 20s and 30s, some even in their teens — and they appear to be much sicker than those who flooded hospitals in the early months of the pandemic, de la Paz said.

Covid is surging in Florida. Doctors and nurses are back in crisis mode.

"Every day I come to work and I’m tired and I’m ready for people to be vaccinated," said one hospital nurse.

www.nbcnews.com

Edit* I originally posted this in response to you. **** me, you guys literally show you don't read anything.

Seriously, most of the things listed there have always affected people on a daily basis. More than half of it might as well be attributed to stress, and the human stress factor should not be underestimated when an entire planet is burdened by pandemic and lockdowns.

The most striking symptom is probably loss of smell or taste, but back in 2007 I actually had a colleague who struggled with his taste sensation for months after he suffered a bad flu.

Such an ignorant statement to make.

I'm just going to end this by saying how unbelievably daft it is to say, "Wear your critical lenses when reading the news", and when I post a report from a reputable medical group, you still go, "Nah, that's baloney".

 

[Nielsen]

But cancer!

Ah, the predictable provocative remark in an online debate. Very refreshing, but there’s a real chance you’ll have several lethal encounters with cancer throughout your life. Far less likely with corona disease if your elderly relatives already got the vaccine.

It's like pulling teeth with you two. I'm not going to post this a 4th time.

Covid is surging in Florida. Doctors and nurses are back in crisis mode.

"Every day I come to work and I’m tired and I’m ready for people to be vaccinated," said one hospital nurse.

www.nbcnews.com

Edit* I originally posted this in response to you. **** me, you guys literally show you don't read anything.

Such an ignorant statement to make.

I'm just going to end this by saying how unbelievably daft it is to say, "Wear your critical lenses when reading the news", and when I post a report from a reputable medical group, you still go, "Nah, that's baloney".

Medical groups, health authorities, the media and politicians. It doesn’t really matter who they are when they’re invested in spreading the same stories over and over again until we’ve all forgotten how to think for ourselves.

 

[TexRex]

Ah, the predictable provocative remark in an online debate. Very refreshing, but there’s a real chance you’ll have several lethal encounters with cancer throughout your life. Far less likely with corona disease if your elderly relatives already got the vaccine.

You've got nothing, which is why you're compelled to deflect and obfuscate. It's ****ing pathetic. Go wash your hands some more.

 

[Nielsen]

You've got nothing, which is why you're compelled to deflect and obfuscate. It's ****ing pathetic. Go wash your hands some more.

You too.

 

[McLaren]

Medical groups, health authorities, the media and politicians. It doesn’t really matter who they are when they’re invested in spreading the same stories over and over again until we’ve all forgotten how to think for ourselves.

This is such an incredibly sad sword to fall on. I don't think you have much business continuing in this thread.


Edit* Once again, for others' benefit.

Covid took a year to become the 3rd leading cause of death. Cancer & heart disease deaths can be the result of a diagnosis made from 6 months to years ago. Covid also has no problem helping boost all 3 categories.

 

[TexRex]

Firefighters*: "Why respond to that burning house when its occupants could have several lethal encounters with cancer throught their lives?"

I sure am glad they don't have the same mentality as these ****ing plague rats.

*Firefighters, by the way, are just as susceptible to COVID-19 as anyone, and while they may beat it, the ailments that are proving to be common among those who have been hit with the disease are likely to render them unable to continue functioning in that capacity.

 

[Nielsen]

This is such an incredibly sad sword to fall on. I don't think you have much business continuing in this thread.

Elaborate.

 

[McLaren]

Elaborate.

You've done the equivalency of saying, "Fake news" to any piece of evidence brought forth, whether it was a media article or a medical institute.

At that point, there's no business in discussing anything with you because you write it off & proclaim you know better because you "think for yourself".

 

[Nielsen]

You've done the equivalency of saying, "Fake news" to any piece of evidence brought forth, whether it was a media article or a medical institute.

At that point, there's no business in discussing anything with you because you write it off & proclaim you know better because you "think for yourself".

I haven’t said it’s fake news. I’m saying we should all evaluate the streams of info we are provided, especially when they raise as many unanswered questions as this does. Documentation for the endless claims made by the authorities is incredibly hard to come by, so scepticism is entirely justified.

If you can see a reason to take the vaccine, good for you. So far I cannot myself, but it might change down the road. You come across very intolerant and ill-behaved toward people who don’t share your viewpoints. Unfortunately you aren’t the only person in this thread exhibiting this trait, but remember we are living in the age of respecting diversity.

 

[McLaren]

I haven’t said it’s fake news. I’m saying we should all evaluate the streams of info we are provided, especially when they raise as many unanswered questions as this does. Documentation for the endless claims made by the authorities are incredibly hard to come by, so scepticism is entirely justified.

That's exactly what you did when you said this,

It doesn’t really matter who they are when they’re invested in spreading the same stories over and over again until we’ve all forgotten how to think for ourselves.

At this point, any piece of evidence or data brought forth that counter-points your stance, you've set the precedent to claim it's a false narrative done so nobody thinks for themselves.

This isn't skepticism, it's flat out being told something with proof and your mindset going, "Yeah, I see the fire burning the paper, but I don't think it's actually too hot to touch".

If you can see a reason to take the vaccine, good for you. So far I cannot myself, but it might change down the road. You come across very intolerant and ill-behaved toward people who don’t share your viewpoints. Unfortunately you aren’t the only person in this thread exhibiting this trait, but remember we are living in the age of respecting diversity.

Good. It's because we're trying to get you to understand the fire's hot and you keep thinking otherwise. At this point, go run into the fire then.

I don't have any respect for people who willingly like to, "**** around and find out".

 

[TexRex]

This "I just don't think the vaccine is right for me right now" line wouldn't be such transparently bad faith tripe if it wasn't for the "you should be more concerned about cancer" ********.

 

[NotThePrez]

This "I just don't think the vaccine is right for me right now" line wouldn't be such transparently bad faith tripe if it wasn't for the "you should be more concerned about cancer" ********.

It's also one of the most selfish takes that a person can take up. It's literally saying "🤬 everybody else, I only care about getting mine."

 

[Nielsen]

That's exactly what you did when you said this,

The media and authorities have always had agendas they want to promote. Nothing new, so it’s not weird to question it.

Enough with the “fake news”. It has become such a buzz word after Trump constantly used it to evade the press.

At this point, any piece of evidence or data brought forth that counter-points your stance, you've set the precedent to claim it's a false narrative done so nobody thinks for themselves.

This isn't skepticism, it's flat out being told something with proof and your mindset going, "Yeah, I see the fire burning the paper, but I don't think it's actually too hot to touch".

Good. It's because we're trying to get you to understand the fire's hot and you keep thinking otherwise. At this point, go run into the fire then.

What’s posted on the last few pages isn’t documentation. It’s horror stories serving as vaccine propaganda.

I’d like to see thorough documentation from national authorities for the emergence of these new and ever-changing corona strains, and how their properties differ dramatically from the corona diseases we had before the infamous 19 variant. I think it’s the very least they could provide when they are so eager to inject these vaccines developed overnight. Transparency is lacking and the tone is we should just take their word for it.

Then there’s the disturbing development where some places now go down the path of basically saying take the vaccine or fade away from the public sphere you depend on. Civil rights anyone? Where are the instruments to prevent such ideas from even seeing the light of day in a current-day democracy?

 

[NotThePrez]

Then there’s the disturbing development where some places now go down the path of basically saying take the vaccine or fade away from the public sphere you depend on. Civil rights anyone? Where are the instruments to prevent such ideas from even seeing the light of day in a current-day democracy?

It is your right to not take the vaccine, but it's also other people's right to decide to not want anything to do with you if you choose that path. Freedom of choice =/= freedom of consequence.

Also, hard at the idea that people not wanting to deal with your potentially infected ass based on your own willful negligence = suppression of civil rights. That is, frankly, an insanely selfish and ignorant viewpoint.

 

[Nielsen]

It is your right to not take the vaccine, but it's also other people's right to decide to not want anything to do with you if you choose that path. Freedom of choice =/= freedom of consequence.

Also, hard at the idea that people not wanting to deal with your potentially infected ass based on your own willful negligence = suppression of civil rights. That is, frankly, an insanely selfish and ignorant viewpoint.

My chosen path on the vaccine subject happens to be a common path, so no reason to judge it like I’m some crazy deviant.

 

[NotThePrez]

My chosen path on the vaccine subject happens to be a common path,...

Sure, still doesn't make what I said incorrect.

...so no reason to judge it like I’m some crazy deviant.

I didn't say that you were crazy, I said that your viewpoint is both selfish and ignorant. Based on the back-and-forth for the past bit in this thread, I'd say that's an accurate assumption.

 

[Nielsen]

I didn't say that you were crazy, I said that your viewpoint is both selfish and ignorant. Based on the back-and-forth for the past bit in this thread, I'd say that's an accurate assumption.

I keep my distance to other people and clean my hands whenever there is reason to do it. So selfish. Meanwhile, some people who got the vaccine don’t even take such preventive measures seriously, and thus roam around being as contagious as they always were.

 

[NotThePrez]

I keep my distance to other people and clean my hands whenever there is reason to do it.

Ok, so you performed the literal bare minimum required to not compromise the health of others, aka, performed the literal bare minimum in being a decent human being.

Also, what is "whenever there's reason to do it" supposed to mean? Are restrooms particularly hard to get to in Denmark?

So selfish.

You were literally just now equating people exercising their personal rights to tell unvaccinated folk they're not welcome to a suppression of civil rights. Yes, that is selfish.

Meanwhile, some people who got the vaccine don’t even take such preventive measures seriously, and thus roam around being as contagious as they always were.

And...? While previous transgressions shouldn't be excused, those individuals at least made the conscious decision to take the vaccine, and as such made the conscious decision to lessen the overall chances of them compromising their own health and the health of the people around them.

You complain about those who didn't take preventative measures seriously, yet you, by your own admittance, refuse to get the vaccine for totally arbitrary reasons. Meanwhile, when other users give you information from reputable sources about why your claims are false, you hand-wave it away as fake news, which covers the ignorance portion. And you then proceed to complain about there being consequences to the actions you and others consciously took. Sorry, but you are absolutely no better than those you complain about and, in the most important aspect of it all, are objectively worse than said individuals.

 

[kikie]

What’s with these intensifying initiatives to force strong and healthy people into getting the vaccine,

Because being healthy doesn't automatically means that you have a strong immune system. It has been proven that people who run marathons (one example) and are very fit have a seriously compromised immune system. People may think that they are strong, fit, and healthy but aren't due to underlying issues such as a compromised gut health. People who think that they are healthy but take meds (like me) actually aren't. My blood composition, inner lying of my blood vessels and arteries, and my monocytes are compromised.

Why is it so important to avoid this latest strain compared to the other corona diseases we’ve dealt with already, not to mention for centuries already?

Because the first strain isn't a natural viral strain. It is, and I'm 100% sure that this is correct (I have been saying this from the very first moment it was reported on the news, even when only China was affected) that this virus was engineered into a dangerous pathogen (gain of function) and was not a result of jumping from animals to humans. It makes it much more dangerous than naturally occurring corona viruses.

Please tell me, because I keep hearing how you’re likely to just experience mild flu symptoms. The weak and elderly already got their vaccines, so it’s not like hospitals will experience overwhelming waves of patients like they did months ago. I’ve genuinely lost track of why this disease is still something to take seriously. Long-term complications? Always been there with other diseases.

As far as I know there is COVID and LUNG-COVID. The difference is that with COVID you get flu-like symptoms. The disease only affects the throat and upper respiratory tract and not the lungs. As the cells renew very quickly in this region of the body and if your immune system can handle it, you will not get that sick.
But if the virus particle gets into the lungs you get LUNG-COVID all hell breaks loose. Lung cells aren't being renewed as fast and the virus can replicate faster and create havoc (destroy lung tissue through a cytokine storm (overreaction of the immune system causing massive inflammation)) in the lungs. You can't breathe properly anymore, the rest of your body and organs are deprived of oxygens with organ damage or even organ failure as a result. And then you'll die.

Also, this has been reported that getting intubated makes things much worse and if these patients survive they have permanent lung and other organ damage. Some of them even need lung transplants, like a neighbor of mine who in fact ran marathons (he has been given a choice >> getting lung transplants or die about 5 years from now. His sister died from a lung transplant so you know the almost impossible choice he has to make).

Getting oxygens the old fashion way, through a breathing apparatus gives the patient a much better chance of survival without further lung damages. Also, a breathing apparatus will oxygenate the rest of the body and organs giving the body a fighting chance to beat LUNG-COVID.

The delta-variant is much more contagious than the previous strain and much, much more contagious than the flu.



For what it's worth, I agree that authorities should not be allowed to force or mandate the vaccines. People should be given the choice to get the vaccine or not. If they don't, they have to follow the corona safety measures rigorous to keep themselves and others safe. People who refuse the vaccine and don't follow the corona safety measures are the most selfish and egocentric sociopathic bastards.


For what it's worth, I take the corona safety measures very, very seriously. I have no problems wearing masks (certified FFP2 and in certain circumstances certified FFP3 masks). I have no problems keeping my distance from others, actually I prefer to do so. I have put my social life on hold as long as it is necessary (luckily I still have GTP ). I take extra safety measures, which are probably not even necessary. I keep telling vaccinated people to keep their distance because vaccinated people think they are invincible and immune to covid and the corona safety measures don't apply to them anymore. I personally think that is wrong to assume that they are.

 

[kikie]

Double post, I know but I want this to be read separately.

@Nielsen, don't try to win or convince a discussion about cancer with @Famine because you won't. It is, as a molecular biologist one of his specialties. He knows what he is talking about and I agree with him >>> cancer vs covid.

BTW I don't agree that corona safety measures are authoritarian restrictions and you don't have to give up your freedom at all.

 

[Touring Mars]

Because the first strain isn't a natural viral strain. It is, and I'm 100% sure that this is correct (I have been saying this from the very first moment it was reported on the news, even when only China was affected) that this virus was engineered into a dangerous pathogen (gain of function) and was not a result of jumping from animals to humans. It makes it much more dangerous than naturally occurring corona viruses.

Citation(s) needed.

There is precisely zero evidence that the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 that led to this pandemic was 'engineered' in any way. There is also no evidence (albeit for different reasons) that the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan either, let alone both of those things.

As for SARS-CoV-2 being "much more dangerous than naturally occuring coronaviruses", that is also a very bold and questionable claim. MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV have far higher case fatality rates (source) and that is just two recent coronaviruses that we humans know anything about.

Gain-of-function research does carry with it inherent risks - like causing the very pandemics it is meant to help allieviate, but what is not often mentioned by critics is that there is also an inherent risk in not doing GOF (or indeed any) research into likely pandemic-causing viruses. One reason that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines were able to be brought online so quickly was because of the research done in the wake of the SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV outbreaks.

As far as I know there is COVID and LUNG-COVID. The difference is that with COVID you get flu-like symptoms. The disease only affects the throat and upper respiratory tract and not the lungs.

That's not right. I think you may have misheard or misunderstood what is being widely reported as 'Long Covid'.

COVID-19 is the illness caused by SARS-CoV-2 and affects different people in different ways, but infection within the lungs which leads to more severe illness and death in ca. 2% of people who test positive is not classified as a different illness - that is COVID-19. (There is, of course, still a great deal to be understood about what determines the severity of illness, which ranges from zero to death within days in apparently similar individuals, but that's a different question).

Long Covid is an emerging condition whereby people experience several symptoms of COVID-19 for several months and/or on-going debilitation as a result of having had COVID-19. While there is clearly some controversy about what really constitutes Long Covid, there is no doubt that it is a real thing for a disturbingly high number of people i.e. they suffer mild to heavy symptoms of COVID-19 for a couple of weeks during their initial infection, but then are left with long term debilitation as a direct result of having had COVID-19. There is even some evidence that asymptomatic cases can result in cases of Long Covid.

 

[McLaren]

The media and authorities have always had agendas they want to promote. Nothing new, so it’s not weird to question it.

This is just another attempt of justifying you to ignore anything that says otherwise.

Enough with the “fake news”. It has become such a buzz word after Trump constantly used it to evade the press.

Then, don't literally disregard anything & everything brought forth to you as false narrative.

What’s posted on the last few pages isn’t documentation. It’s horror stories serving as vaccine propaganda.

Medical articles detailing Covid side effects, deaths, and risks people have is vaccine propaganda?

You're again playing the "Nope, fake" card.

I’d like to see thorough documentation from national authorities for the emergence of these new and ever-changing corona strains, and how their properties differ dramatically from the corona diseases we had before the infamous 19 variant. I think it’s the very least they could provide when they are so eager to inject these vaccines developed overnight. Transparency is lacking and the tone is we should just take their word for it.

Have you tried actually Googling? These people put out research papers that are further peer reviewed for a reason. Very sure @Joey D has linked such sites in the past.

Civil rights anyone? Where are the instruments to prevent such ideas from even seeing the light of day in a current-day democracy?

You're telling me to stop playing "fake news" trope yet push the equally old, "Wha bout mah civil rights"? Mass, mandatory vaccination has existed in the US, supported directly by the Founding Fathers themselves.

My chosen path on the vaccine subject happens to be a common path, so no reason to judge it like I’m some crazy deviant.

Maybe in Denmark, isn't in the US. 60% of Americans have at least 1 dose, 50% have both. That trend is going up, and is expected to go up noticeably after the FDA-approval in the coming month.

 

[kikie]

There is precisely zero evidence that the original strain of SARS-CoV-2 that led to this pandemic was 'engineered' in any way. There is also no evidence (albeit for different reasons) that the virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan either, let alone both of those things.

Say whatever you want but it is much more likely that this is the case and it is being covered up. It is no coincidence that there is a level 4 security lab in Wuhan. Also, the genome sequence of the SARS2 doesn't seem to be a natural evolution. Even though this source says that it is NOT engineered, there is other evidence that says it is. I lean more towards the engineering theory than the natural occuring theory. Sorry for being such an ass.

Recently revealed emails from Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s leading infectious disease expert, show that he was warned as early as January 2020 that the virus may have been “engineered.

”https://nypost.com/2021/06/06/damning-science-shows-covid-19-likely-engineered-in-lab/

In a Senate hearing last month, Fauci admitted that he couldn’t be certain that the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China — the nation from which COVID-19 sprang in late 2019 — didn’t put a pre-pandemic $600,000 grant from the National Institutes of Health toward gain-of-function research.

‘Damning’ science shows COVID-19 likely engineered in lab: experts

Dr. Steven Quay and Richard Muller pointed to two key pieces of evidence to support the claim in an opinion piece.

nypost.com

Fauci (NIAID or is the NIH) funded this lab for research (gain of function or not, that is still debatable because Fauci doesn't know what the Chinese did with the money, so he claims). He finally admitted to congress that he funded the Wuhan lab even though he lied about it for a long time. Fauci has too much to lose if the truth comes out and that is why he tries to cover up things and lies about it.
There is proof that Fauci tried to cover up the outbreak in January or February of last year and lied about it. Please don't say that this is just youtube or a youtube channel that seeks attention and therefore not believable.

Fauci was warned that COVID-19 may have been ‘engineered,’ emails show

Dr. Anthony Fauci was warned that the coronavirus had possibly been “engineered” and appeared to be taking reports about it seriously.

nypost.com

All the official articles published is (assumption but I believe this to be true) research funded by the NIAID or NIH and not completely to be trusted. My opinion and although it sounds crazy to most of you, I tend to believe this. Other scientists who speak out and are independent researchers and not funded by the NIAID or NIH are silenced, censored, ridiculed and even threatened. That alone raises a red flag (in my mind).

As for SARS-CoV-2 being "much more dangerous than naturally occuring coronaviruses", that is also a very bold and questionable claim. MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV have far higher case fatality rates (source) and that is just two recent coronaviruses that we humans know anything about.

MERS was also investigated in labs prior to the outbreak.

Listen to what Fauci said about gain of function in 2012 when the MERS outbreak occurred. Coincidence?



I think it could also be a cover-up.


But this proves otherwise so I don't know about MERS:

SARS and MERS, which were confirmed to be of natural origin, “evolved rapidly as they spread through the human population, until the most contagious forms dominated,” the pair wrote.

‘Damning’ science shows COVID-19 likely engineered in lab: experts

Dr. Steven Quay and Richard Muller pointed to two key pieces of evidence to support the claim in an opinion piece.

nypost.com

Gain-of-function research does carry with it inherent risks - like causing the very pandemics it is meant to help allieviate, but what is not often mentioned by critics is that there is also an inherent risk in not doing GOF (or indeed any) research into likely pandemic-causing viruses.

I agree about what you say about what gain of function is. That is why I truly believe the virus got out of the Wuhan lab accidentally.

One reason that SARS-CoV-2 vaccines were able to be brought online so quickly was because of the research done in the wake of the SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV outbreaks.

I didn't say anything about that. I know that these vaccines have been investigated for much longer than most people think. mRNA vaccines technology investigation started way back in 1988 by Dr. Robert Maloy.

That's not right. I think you may have misheard or misunderstood what is being widely reported as 'Long Covid'.

Again I disagree because it was explained by an Asian epidemiologist who lives in Germany. At least I think it was this specialist. Maybe it was another specialist. I'll try to find the link again and give it to you in a PM.

COVID-19 is the illness caused by SARS-CoV-2 and affects different people in different ways, but infection within the lungs which leads to more severe illness and death in ca. 2% of people who test positive is not classified as a different illness - that is COVID-19.

This is probably correct. I agree. I merely wanted to point out the difference of the severity of the illness and how it affects different people. I agree that it is not classified as a different illness but a different stage of the illness. I didn't explain myself properly

Long Covid is an emerging condition whereby people experience several symptoms of COVID-19 for several months. While there is clearly some controversy about what really constitutes Long Covid, there is no doubt that it is a real thing for a disturbingly high number of people i.e. they suffer mild to heavy symptoms of COVID-19 for a couple of weeks during their initial infection, but then are left with long term debilitation as a direct result of having had COVID-19. There is even some evidence that asymptomatic cases can result in cases of Long Covid.

As I said before above, it was explained by a specialist that the mild symptoms don't affect the lungs at all and the infection stays in the throat and I believe the upper respiratory tract. If the immune system can't fight off this infection properly it will start to affect the lungs (cytokines storm) depriving the organs and body of oxygen.

I know you want links and prove of these claims but I got the information a while ago and I didn't keep the links. It is easy for me to say that it is very difficult to find these citations again but it is because it has been at least 14 days ago and I didn't pay attention to the links where I got the information from.


If the truth turns out that it is a naturally occurring virus, I will gladly change my mind but until now, I believe the engineering theory.
Let it be clear that I don't believe it was released on purpose. I believe it was an accident when the virus got out of the Wuhan lab. I don't believe in this ridiculous bioweapon conspiracy, nor do I believe in all the other ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Whatever happened, whatever the source of the outbreak is the fact is that there is a pandemic and they are trying to get it under control is more important and we all have to do our part to make this happen.


The truth is out there.


I don't want to discuss this any further because my beliefs are different than yours.

 

[UKMikey]

Maybe in Denmark, isn't in the US. 60% of Americans have at least 1 dose, 50% have both. That trend is going up, and is expected to go up noticeably after the FDA-approval in the coming month.

Maybe not in Denmark either.

Denmark: the latest coronavirus counts, charts and maps

Tracking the COVID-19 outbreak, updated daily

graphics.reuters.com

 

[Nielsen]

Ok, so you performed the literal bare minimum required to not compromise the health of others, aka, performed the literal bare minimum in being a decent human being.

Also, what is "whenever there's reason to do it" supposed to mean? Are restrooms particularly hard to get to in Denmark?

You were literally just now equating people exercising their personal rights to tell unvaccinated folk they're not welcome to a suppression of civil rights. Yes, that is selfish.

And...? While previous transgressions shouldn't be excused, those individuals at least made the conscious decision to take the vaccine, and as such made the conscious decision to lessen the overall chances of them compromising their own health and the health of the people around them.

You complain about those who didn't take preventative measures seriously, yet you, by your own admittance, refuse to get the vaccine for totally arbitrary reasons. Meanwhile, when other users give you information from reputable sources about why your claims are false, you hand-wave it away as fake news, which covers the ignorance portion. And you then proceed to complain about there being consequences to the actions you and others consciously took. Sorry, but you are absolutely no better than those you complain about and, in the most important aspect of it all, are objectively worse than said individuals.

Everything I say you twist to the point where it’s impossible to have a decent discussion.

Because being healthy doesn't automatically means that you have a strong immune system. It has been proven that people who run marathons (one example) and are very fit have a seriously compromised immune system.

No wonder. Marathon runners may be strong but they never came across particularly healthy.

People may think that they are strong, fit, and healthy but aren't due to underlying issues such as a compromised gut health. People who think that they are healthy but take meds (like me) actually aren't. My blood composition, inner lying of my blood vessels and arteries, and my monocytes are compromised.

Take the vaccine if you believe you can benefit from it. I’m not trying to stop anyone.

Because the first strain isn't a natural viral strain. It is, and I'm 100% sure that this is correct (I have been saying this from the very first moment it was reported on the news, even when only China was affected) that this virus was engineered into a dangerous pathogen (gain of function) and was not a result of jumping from animals to humans. It makes it much more dangerous than naturally occurring corona viruses.

No one really knows.

As far as I know there is COVID and LUNG-COVID. The difference is that with COVID you get flu-like symptoms. The disease only affects the throat and upper respiratory tract and not the lungs. As the cells renew very quickly in this region of the body and if your immune system can handle it, you will not get that sick.
But if the virus particle gets into the lungs you get LUNG-COVID all hell breaks loose. Lung cells aren't being renewed as fast and the virus can replicate faster and create havoc (destroy lung tissue through a cytokine storm (overreaction of the immune system causing massive inflammation)) in the lungs. You can't breathe properly anymore, the rest of your body and organs are deprived of oxygens with organ damage or even organ failure as a result. And then you'll die.

Also, this has been reported that getting intubated makes things much worse and if these patients survive they have permanent lung and other organ damage. Some of them even need lung transplants, like a neighbor of mine who in fact ran marathons (he has been given a choice >> getting lung transplants or die about 5 years from now. His sister died from a lung transplant so you know the almost impossible choice he has to make).

Getting oxygens the old fashion way, through a breathing apparatus gives the patient a much better chance of survival without further lung damages. Also, a breathing apparatus will oxygenate the rest of the body and organs giving the body a fighting chance to beat LUNG-COVID.

So far the disease has affected people’s bodies in different ways.

The delta-variant is much more contagious than the previous strain and much, much more contagious than the flu.

That’s what we’re told with every new variant.

For what it's worth, I agree that authorities should not be allowed to force or mandate the vaccines. People should be given the choice to get the vaccine or not. If they don't, they have to follow the corona safety measures rigorous to keep themselves and others safe. People who refuse the vaccine and don't follow the corona safety measures are the most selfish and egocentric sociopathic bastards.

Indeed.

@Nielsen, don't try to win or convince a discussion about cancer with @Famine because you won't. It is, as a molecular biologist one of his specialties. He knows what he is talking about and I agree with him >>> cancer vs covid.

I asked him a question.

BTW I don't agree that corona safety measures are authoritarian restrictions and you don't have to give up your freedom at all.

In general they haven’t been so far, but the latest developments in places like New York essentially do take away people’s freedom of choice.

This is just another attempt of justifying you to ignore anything that says otherwise.

Not even close.

Then, don't literally disregard anything & everything brought forth to you as false narrative.

I don’t find the things I read convincing enough to take the vaccine. We have kept hearing the same worsening stories for almost two years now and yet everyone I know personally or know peripherally has always tested negative.

Medical articles detailing Covid side effects, deaths, and risks people have is vaccine propaganda? You're again playing the "Nope, fake" card.

I’m not saying it’s fake, as I’m sure the vaccine can really benefit the weak an elderly. Though, the urge to inject the vaccine into every part of the population doesn’t add up when you look at fatality rates and the lack of uniqueness in long-term complications. Despite of this they constantly try to scare us into taking the vaccine anyway, so propaganda definitely comes to mind.

Have you tried actually Googling? These people put out research papers that are further peer reviewed for a reason. Very sure @Joey D has linked such sites in the past.

Yes I very much have, and the critical questions I have asked on Google always come back unanswered. It’s like their algorithms intentionally filter out results reflecting valid concerns, and instead it feeds me with the same manipulative articles and stories we’ve heard repeatedly.

You're telling me to stop playing "fake news" trope yet push the equally old, "Wha bout mah civil rights"? Mass, mandatory vaccination has existed in the US, supported directly by the Founding Fathers themselves.

I bet those founders also struggled with diseases far more lethal than what we’re battling now. By the way, you keep saying fake news… I simply urge people to think for themselves when things don’t add up.

Maybe in Denmark, isn't in the US. 60% of Americans have at least 1 dose, 50% have both. That trend is going up, and is expected to go up noticeably after the FDA-approval in the coming month.

I think 84% of Danes have taken one does of the vaccine so far. It doesn’t exactly make the remaining 16% deviants, especially not when many within the latter group are in their thirties.

Almost 58% have received two doses.

 

[Famine]

Say whatever you want but it is much more likely that this is the case and it is being covered up. It is no coincidence that there is a level 4 security lab in Wuhan.

It's a possibility, and always has been. It's not a certainty, and never has been. This is why this...

Because the first strain isn't a natural viral strain. It is, and I'm 100% sure that this is correct (I have been saying this from the very first moment it was reported on the news, even when only China was affected) that this virus was engineered into a dangerous pathogen (gain of function) and was not a result of jumping from animals to humans. It makes it much more dangerous than naturally occurring corona viruses.

... is not something you can actually state with as much conviction as you did, and why @Touring Mars responded to that effect: we simply don't have enough evidence to say one way or the other.

Unlike, for example, the concepts that masks and hand-washing eliminate 90%+ of transmission, that vaccines reduce both transmission and negative outcomes of infection by around the same amount (but do not guarantee against either), that vaccines don't have 5G microchips in them or cause death, sterility, or any other negative side-effects at any higher rates than background (unlike COVID-19, which does), and the fact that the 2% death rate globally (with a bias towards those older and with pre-existing conditions) is rather outweighed by the much larger rate of long-term illness (with a bias towards those younger and with no pre-existing conditions) as a result of COVID-19.

These things have plenty of evidence, and it's only mounting, but for some reason there's a bunch of people who want to ignore all of it and be contrarian on the internet because government bad also whatabout [disease of choice].


Incidentally, as it says in the first post:

Important note: Posts that promote conspiracy theories, misinformation, or contain misleading or unverifiable claims will be removed. Persistent offenders will be banned from posting in this thread permanently. Any content deemed inappropriate may be removed without notice, and is at the discretion of the moderation team.