COVID-19/Coronavirus Information and Support Thread (see OP for useful links)

[ryzno]

It's like you have a fetish for ignorance and stupidity.
No I have a fetish for not injecting myself with stuff that has shown to be useless.

Call it what you will. And by y'all...everyone here thinks those who choose not to be vaccinated are dumb Republicans.
I have friends from all circle who thinks it's not worth it.

 

[Famine]

Call it what you will. And by y'all...everyone here thinks those who choose not to be vaccinated are dumb Republicans.

Nobody mentioned Republicans, so I don't know who it is you "can't agree with" when they say that - because nobody did.

I don't even know what political affiliation has to do with it. Does a membership of the Democrat party come with an introductory course on how vaccines and vaccinations work?

I have friends from all circle who thinks it's not worth it.

Great. So what? If they think that, they need basic education on how vaccinations work too.

 

[Fat Tyre]

So how y'all feel after getting both shots, excuse me, "jabs" as y'all like to call them...proving to be a waste of time and money and useless?

Let me grab a beer first so I can enjoy my laugh.

It feels pretty great to be honest. I only had some mild flu like symptoms after the first dose. It gives a fat ass like me some hope that if I do get infected I'll be able to get away with mild symptoms or if I do get hospitalised I won't have to be intubated or worse die.
Nothing can give me a hundred percent certainty that I won't die but if it reduces my chances 10 or 20 fold, I'd have to be a fool not to take it. If you'd have ever experienced a respiratory illness like bronchitis and felt just how horrible it is to feel that you're surrounded by oxygen but knowing your lungs are not able to take it, to get anxiety over feeling you have to make a tremendous effort just to get a tiny bit of air in you'd take the vaccine in a heartbeat.

 

[ryzno]

Nobody mentioned Republicans, so I don't know who it is you "can't agree with" when they say that - because nobody did.

I'm not gonna search your site for you but look around. The hatred is there.

If you'd have ever experienced a respiratory illness like bronchitis and felt just how horrible it is to feel that you're surrounded by oxygen but knowing your lungs are not able to take it, to get anxiety over feeling you have to make a tremendous effort just to get a tiny bit of air in you'd take the vaccine in a heartbeat.

My girl has respiratory problems. She doesn't want it. Her mom got the "jab" and now has heart issues. Coincidentce? Maybe.
He brother and wife was out over a week after the shot.
Both caught it. Sorry, I can't agree.

 

[Famine]

I'm not gonna search your site for you but look around. The hatred is there.

Cool story. You've waded in to deride vaccines because you have no knowledge of how they work, then decided that somebody is saying mean things about only Republicans refusing to be vaccinated without any actual basis for that statement. Not that it even makes any sense: are people in the United Kingdom, Denmark, Spain, or Australia who refuse to be vaccinated also somehow Republicans? No.

This is advanced victim card playing, from someone who has no interest in learning and who chose to "bow out" two posts ago (actually three, but you couldn't find the Multiquote function after nine years).

As I said, it's like you have a fetish for ignorance and stupidity. You want to be uninformed. You prefer it that way, for some reason.

 

[Fat Tyre]

I'm not gonna search your site for you but look around. The hatred is there.


My girl has respiratory problems. She doesn't want it. Her mom got the "jab" and now has heart issues. Coincidentce? Maybe.
He brother and wife was out over a week after the shot.
Both caught it. Sorry, I can't agree.

I can only shake my head in regards to your girl. As far as your mum goes, it could be a coincidence. I hope she is well and gets that checked though.

Now you say your brother and wife caught it. Ok, so do you expect people to develop antibodies immediately? Vaccines don't work like that. It takes time, from what you're saying they didn't even get to have a second dose. The other thing you'd have to see is that vaccines do not prevent you from getting infected, there will always be breakthrough infections. What you have to consider is if it lowers your chances of developing severe illness.

 

[ryzno]

I can only shake my head in regards to your girl. As far as your mum goes, it could be a coincidence. I hope she is well and gets that checked though.

Now you say your brother and wife caught it. Ok, so do you expect people to develop antibodies immediately? Vaccines don't work like that. It takes time, from what you're saying they didn't even get to have a second dose. The other thing you'd have to see is that vaccines do not prevent you from getting infected, there will always be breakthrough infections. What you have to consider is if it lowers your chances of developing severe illness.

They are all her family... Her mom stays with her brother and his wife.
I'm not as dumb as y'all think I am. I understand the principal of vaccines. I also understand when some are useless.
I'm not an antivaxer either. My son is up to date on ALL shots. Government School...

 

[Fat Tyre]

They are all her family... Her mom stays with her brother and his wife.
I'm not as dumb as y'all think I am. I understand the principal of vaccines. I also understand when some are useless.
I'm not an antivaxer either. My son is up to date on ALL shots.

Sorry I misread,I only caught 3 hours of sleep last night.

So you're not an antivaxxer, you just have a beef with vaccines that help prevent Covid-19, ok... 🙄

 

[McLaren]

So how y'all feel after getting both shots, excuse me, "jabs" as y'all like to call them...proving to be a waste of time and money and useless?

Let me grab a beer first so I can enjoy my laugh

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the shots have been and an indication that deaths per day — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the vaccine.

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated

Nearly all COVID-19 deaths in the United States now are in people who weren’t vaccinated, a staggering demonstration of how effective the vaccines have been and an indication that daily deaths — now down to under 300 — could be practically zero if everyone eligible got the shots.

apnews.com

The vast majority of people being hospitalized with COVID and dying from the disease haven't been fully vaccinated, according to public health officials. More than 97% of hospitalizations from COVID right now are of unvaccinated people, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention, said at a press briefing Friday, adding: "There is a clear message that is coming through: This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated." In early July, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the president's chief medical advisor, told CBS that 99.2% of COVID deaths are now of unvaccinated people.

99% of COVID deaths are now of unvaccinated people, experts say

COVID cases and deaths are on the rise in what is now a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," the director of the CDC said.

www.cnet.com

Edit*
Just sticking to sharing the info. Take it or leave it, not gonna bother arguing anymore to avoid a staff intervention.

 

[TexRex]

 

[Touring Mars]

Honestly what are they doing?

Reducing deaths and cases of severe illness and/or lasting debilitation.

In turn, they are helping to reduce the burden on social care and health care providers, reduce the economic burden of having to keep people out of workplaces, allow businesses to re-open thus saving livelihoods, jobs etc., reducing the number of days kids and students miss out on being at school, college etc. etc.

Last I checked you need a "booster" every 6 months

It's hardly a shock that booster shots were on the cards - a quick search of my own posts mentioned this possibility 16 months ago, and I'm sure there are many other examples of this too.

and you can still catch it.

Yes, you can still be infected after vaccination, but vaccination does reduce transmission rates overall. But even if one or more vaccines provided total protection from infection and illness, there would still be a huge number of people who'd refuse it. Heck, even if vaccines could be proven 100% 'safe' (which is not possible), there would still be a huge number of people who would refuse it.

-

As for the reports of people having adverse health effects from vaccines, that would be unfortunate if it can be established that there is an unequivocal link between these ailments and the vaccine itself - and for the time being I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt to people who report such ill effects. But then comes the question - if this is how they react to the presence of a controlled amount of a vaccine given in a controlled manner, how would they have fared against an uncontrolled infection with SARS-CoV-2?

Indeed, as you say, people who have been vaccinated can still get the virus, but the next question is, how would they have fared upon infection had they not been vaccinated? At the very least, vaccination provides a mechanism for the body to prevent an infection from becoming a very serious health issue or even a mortal threat.

In both cases, the evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the vaccines having a protective effect in far more people than the alleged ill effects they may cause in a small minority, and ironically, the same people who do have ill effects from the vaccine are likely those who needed it the most (i.e. in terms of how much more of a risk the virus may have posed to them without the vaccine).

A key point is that there will always be unknowns and uncertainties, but all the more reason to take a broad view and look at what is happening worldwide among both vaxxed and unvaxxed populations. While questions and uncertainties will always remain, the evidence thus far is unequivocal - vaccinated people are much, much safer than unvaccinated people.

 

[Famine]

I understand the principal of vaccines. I also understand when some are useless.

Neither of these things are true. The fact you think that both the flu vaccine and COVID-19 vaccines are useless is testament to this:

So how y'all feel after getting both shots, excuse me, "jabs" as y'all like to call them...proving to be a waste of time and money and useless?

Or like the flu vaccine, it doesn't work.

I literally babied you right through flu vaccines a year ago when you claimed they don't work, and then repeated it for you in September when you decided that conversation had never happened and said it again. Now we're a year on and you're doing it again, but now you're adding as many victim cards as you can for no good reason.

I know you have literally no interest in learning anything - because you wouldn't advance the same junk three times after being patiently walked through it previously if you were - but just in case there's anyone reading who is:

Step 1 - Vaccination does not confer 100% protection, from either infection/transmission or outcomes, even from the original virus. 80-90% reduction in infections and deaths is about ballpark for a really good vaccine.
Step 2 - That 10-20% margin means continued, albeit massively reduced, transmission.
Step 3 - With continued transmission, non-vaccinated populations are still at high risk of becoming infected.
Step 4 - A virus allowed to reproduce in a non-vaccinated population leads to rapid mutation (usually selecting for transmissibility).
Step 5 - Viral mutation reduce the effectiveness of the vaccination, resulting in a return to Step 2 but with larger populations

Lather, rinse, repeat.


There will always be people who cannot or should not be vaccinated, but the larger the unvaccinated population, the more rapid the mutations and the more rapid the reduction in vaccination efficacy. With a large enough vaccinated population, the virus can't move quickly enough to unvaccinated populations to mutate.

This is literally what the term "herd immunity", which everyone who's apparently been a virology expert since November 2019 has been bandying about in a profoundly stupid manner, actually means. A sufficiently large immunised (artificial or natural; artificial results in far fewer deaths and serious long-term illness) population which protects a small unimmunised population by not allowing the virus a chance to spread to them - which also protects itself by not allowing the virus a chance to mutate within the non-immune population.

 

[UKMikey]

A vaccine isn't a cure either, no matter how much these Jacksonville churchgoers probably wish it was.

In 10 days, 6 members of Jacksonville church die from COVID-19, pastor says

A Jacksonville church pastor said in the last 10 days, six of his church members have died from COVID-19, and more of their members are currently in the hospital.

www.news4jax.com

It's therefore probably better to get vaccinated before you're infected by the virus rather than afterwards.

 

[Outspacer]

Vaccines are indeed "useless" at protecting the unvaccinated if the vaccinated aren't enough to give us herd immunity. We'd continue to have outbreaks.

So in that case it's likely that sooner or later almost everybody will have had COVID at some point, just like almost everybody has had flu at some point. It may not be this wave or even the next, it may be years from now.

Of course (a somewhat inferior) immunity can also be provided by previous infection, but by then your family knows if it killed you or not (615k), put you in hospital or not (2.5M), left you with serious long term problems unable to work or not (est 3.5M). (overall US figures).

The vaccinated will fare far better. Here's how it's going:

From paywalled WSJ article.

I added the red line, because the data also shows a clear correlation between increased levels of vaccination (and probably some sensible guidance being followed, unlike Florida) and reduced numbers in hospital with COVID. That line tends towards zero.

Vaccines are certainly not "useless" at protecting the vaccinated.

 

[Danoff]

Vaccines are indeed "useless" at protecting the unvaccinated if the vaccinated aren't enough to give us herd immunity. We'd continue to have outbreaks.

So in that case it's likely that sooner or later almost everybody will have had COVID at some point, just like almost everybody has had flu at some point. It may not be this wave or even the next, it may be years from now.

Of course (a somewhat inferior) immunity can also be provided by previous infection, but by then your family knows if it killed you or not (615k), put you in hospital or not (2.5M), left you with serious long term problems unable to work or not (est 3.5M). (overall US figures).

The vaccinated will fare far better. Here's how it's going:

View attachment 1072977

From paywalled WSJ article.

I added the red line, because the data also shows a clear correlation between increased levels of vaccination (and probably some sensible guidance being followed, unlike Florida) and reduced numbers in hospital with COVID. That line tends towards zero.

Vaccines are certainly not "useless" at protecting the vaccinated.

It's so hard to actually know what numbers they're using for this stuff. Even "Pct. Fully vaccinated" leaves so much to be desired. Percentage of the total population fully vaccinated? Percentage of adults? Percentage of people eligible?

I have to do so much research to even figure out what it is. This looks like 2 doses, possibly... elligible? population? Lemme check. Nope, it's total population. If it were eligible population it would be 56%.

On the otherhand, they could report eligible population with at least one dose. That would be 68% for Florida.

 

[Blitz24]

Due to manufacturing and just a general lack of supply around the world, it was a given that mutations would occur. Whether or not more people getting vaccinated would have prevented Delta is debatable. However, as time moves on, new mutations could render current vaccines less efficient (or worse, useless). These mutations will represent a risk to everyone but become even more of a danger to those not vaccinated.
People keep comparing COVID-19 to Ebola and say Ebola is more dangerous. That is true insomuch as Ebola has a significantly greater likelihood of fatal infections (more than half of the time it will kill whomever it infects). At the same time, a pandemic of Ebola is less likely because if most or all people die from infection, it can't pass around as well so it dies out. In addition, Ebola is not really as transmissible if the person isn't exhibiting symptoms.
On the other hand, COVID-19 has a greater transmission rate due to the ability of transmission whether or not you show symptoms. Heck, you could have (or could have had) COVID-19 already and not be aware of it. That's the biggest reason in my eyes for vaccination as it protects you and everyone around you from being infected. If some people refuse, then those vaccinated are relatively safe, but the risk of severe illness, long term complications and/or death has not been mitigated.

 

[polysmut]

It's therefore probably better to get vaccinated before you're infected by the virus rather than afterwards.

That good advice is the bit I pressed "like" for. Not the story about the people dying.

 

[Outspacer]

It's so hard to actually know what numbers they're using for this stuff. Even "Pct. Fully vaccinated" leaves so much to be desired. Percentage of the total population fully vaccinated? Percentage of adults? Percentage of people eligible?

I have to do so much research to even figure out what it is. This looks like 2 doses, possibly... elligible? population? Lemme check. Nope, it's total population. If it were eligible population it would be 56%.

On the otherhand, they could report eligible population with at least one dose. That would be 68% for Florida.

As long as they are using the same methods to assess each state, I don't see that it would change the pattern at all. For example, using eligible rather than total population would change all of the states, and equally, since 12 year olds up are now eligible in every state AIUI. It won't alter the correlation that exists.

Fully vaccinated is two doses for Pfizer and Moderna, or one for J&J. That's why they use the term 'fully'.

I don't know if they did, but I would choose to use vaccination stats from two or three weeks ago, or more, since it takes that long for the final dose to take effect, plus there's time between catching it and hospitalisation. I doubt it would alter the current correlation much.

They could report one dose stats as well, but we know that two doses (for P and M) are what's needed to give decent protection. It would be interesting to estimate how things will look once the partly vaccinated get their second doses - states with high numbers of partly vaccinated would move on the chart. The correlation is very unlikely to disappear.

Florida is clearly an extreme outlier to any pattern, presumably caused by other, mostly behavioural, factors.

 

[Nielsen]

What exactly have I twisted? The posts I've made are based on the responses you've given in this thread.

You basically reduce all my viewpoints to examples of indecency despite the fact I’m simply questioning the scale and scope of the vaccine programme.

Point completely missed your head. You made the notion that you don't know anyone that's tested positive, despite all the "stories and stories". I've never met anyone positive for Ebola despite all the horrible stories about it.

What you did is present anecdotal evidence.

Ebola doesn’t thrive as a global pandemic, so your remark is pointless. Of course I miss the point when it’s not even there to see.

It's literally out there and provided in this thread. Bing it.

What is?

Lol, it is when you accuse a search engine of purposefully not feeding you what you want to see.

"It’s like their algorithms intentionally filter out results reflecting valid concerns."

Dammit Joe, why is Google filtering out all the 2+2=5 evidence!

I’m not looking for evidence that my concerns are valid. I’m looking for search results that echo my own concerns. I know many people share them.

The only one lacking rationale is you. That much is evident by freshly stating, you decided to think for yourself & research your concerns, but accuse Google of intentionally "hiding" what you're after.

Confirmation bias.

Enough with this crap. My questions are justified, and will remain justified as long as the statistics show the stats they do and always did.

 

[TexRex]

🎶 🎻🎶

 

[TB]

Her mom got the "jab" and now has heart issues. Coincidentce? Maybe.

My son got his immunizations when he was 2 months old and 2 weeks later was diagnosed with Cystic Fibrosis. Coincidence? Absolutely. Proximity does not equal causality. Immunized or not, he'd still have CF.

Same goes for her mom. I'd bet dollars to donuts that even if she didn't get the vaccine she'd still have the heart issues, but that's really not worth arguing because neither can be proved. I do hope things are going well for her, though.

 

[McLaren]

Ebola doesn’t thrive as a global pandemic, so your remark is pointless. Of course I miss the point when it’s not even there to see.

The point was anecdotal evidence is not justification. That's what you did by claiming you haven't seen a positive case first hand, must not be real.

What is?

The data you're after.

I’m not looking for evidence that my concerns are valid. I’m looking for search results that echo my own concerns. I know many people share them.

No, you want results that validate those concerns. You admitted as such by claiming Google's algorithm purposely hides those results.

No shot you can prove that without digging into a conspiracy.

Enough with this crap. My questions are justified, and will remain justified as long as the statistics show the stats they do and always did.

Nope. Your concerns will only remain justified to you as long as you can continue to find predetermined sources to confirm them and ignore anything against them.

Enough with this? Try leaving the thread. I'm sure /NoNewNormal will welcome you with open arms.

 

[Nielsen]

The point was anecdotal evidence is not justification. That's what you did by claiming you haven't seen a positive case first hand, must not be real.

I’m not claiming it’s not real, but the likelihood I would encounter a “positive” acquaintance should be increased if the contagiousness of the delta variant compared to previous variants is as bad as the authorities claim. Yet I haven’t, so solely in that regard my scepticism toward getting every age group vaccinated is unaffected.

The data you're after.

I’ve already seen the data I need in order to justify my viewpoint.

No, you want results that validate those concerns. You admitted as such by claiming Google's algorithm purposely hides those results.

No shot you can prove that without digging into a conspiracy.

Pointing out that search engine results seemingly favor content that promote the vaccines is not admitting anything. I want the search results to reflect my concerns so I can seek answers which can either validate or debunk said concerns.

Conspiracy? No, more like multinational corporations also subscribing to certain agendas just like any other influential institution does.

Nope. Your concerns will only remain justified to you as long as you can continue to find predetermined sources to confirm them and ignore anything against them.

Enough with this? Try leaving the thread. I'm sure /NoNewNormal will welcome you with open arms.

Or you could try respecting viewpoints different to your own.

 

[UKMikey]

Or you could try respecting viewpoints different to your own.

Respect is something that should be earned, not merely demanded. Perhaps we'd respect those viewpoints more, were you to show us the statistics which disprove that the disease is most prevalent in unvaccinated people and that they're the ones most likely to be hospitalised and/or die as a result?

Bearing in mind that we can't do our own research as Google is so biased against the truth and keeps showing the opposite. Just a suggestion. 🤷🏽‍♂️

 

[McLaren]

I’m not claiming it’s not real, but the likelihood I would encounter a “positive” acquaintance should be increased if the contagiousness of the delta variant compared to previous variants is as bad as the authorities claim. Yet I haven’t, so solely in that regard my scepticism toward getting every age group vaccinated is unaffected.

That's still anecdotal evidence you're relying on.

I’ve already seen the data I need in order to justify my viewpoint.

You claim you can't find the info you're after because it's intentionally hidden yet you've also seen it to validate yourself....

Pointing out that search engine results seemingly favor content that promote the vaccines is not admitting anything. I want the search results to reflect my concerns so I can seek answers which can either validate or debunk said concerns.

Conspiracy? No, more like multinational corporations also subscribing to certain agendas just like any other influential institution does.

That's literally a conspiracy approach. You can not prove that.

Or you could try respecting viewpoints different to your own.

Anecdotal evidence, confirmation bias, conspiracy theory that allows you to ignore conflicting sources.

I'm not respecting your viewpoint because it's basing itself on straight up nonsense.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Holy crap... Google really is in on it all... they're only pushing one narrative!

 

[Outspacer]

Andrew Read, lead author of a 2015 paper that is being misrepresented as saying 'leaky' vaccines are "useless", explains why that is false in a Forbes interview.

... Calling into question the effectiveness of vaccines was never the intention of his 2015 study. “I am genuinely shocked. I've been doing work for 20 years now on how vaccines might drive the evolution of viruses. There's nothing in any of that 20 years work that argues in favor of withholding lifesaving vaccines. It's just shocking to me.” He adds, “There are 600,000 Americans dead so far. The vast majority of those deaths are vaccine-preventable. There's not a single scenario that would argue in favor of not using [vaccines] to save the next hundred thousand. Not one scenario.” ...

 

[Nielsen]

That's still anecdotal evidence you're relying on.

Seriously, the scepticism exists because the authorities have brought forth no solid evidence backing the claimed necessity in getting entire populations vaccinated. My scepticism relies entirely on this fact, and not having witnessed any corona disease first hand clearly doesn’t help.

You claim you can't find the info you're after because it's intentionally hidden yet you've also seen it to validate yourself....

You’re getting a few things mixed up there. I’ve seen statistics on corona disease by different age groups which validate my viewpoint, but info that actually attempts to answer justified concerns related to the vaccines does appear to be overshadowed by vaccine propaganda.

That's literally a conspiracy approach. You can not prove that.

There’s nothing I need to prove on that subject, but conspiracies are essentially wild claims. However, agendas exist for a fact among media corporations, international organizations, MNCs, etc. That much is obvious just by observing their words and actions.

Anecdotal evidence, confirmation bias, conspiracy theory that allows you to ignore conflicting sources.

I'm not respecting your viewpoint because it's basing itself on straight up nonsense.

That’s not why. It’s because you have an urge to correct people who don’t see things the way you do.

 

[McLaren]

Seriously, the scepticism exist because the authorities have brought forth no solid evidence backing the claimed necessity in getting entire populations vaccinated. My scepticism relies entirely on this fact, and not having witnessed any corona disease first hand clearly doesn’t help.

This is an outright lie.

You’re getting a few things mixed up there. I’ve seen statistics on corona disease by different age groups which validate my viewpoint, but info that actually attempts to answer justified concerns related to the vaccines does appear to be overshadowed by vaccine propaganda.

Except when I literally post information that shows the age groups being affected are now flipping, but you conveniently call it propaganda as an excuse to ignore it.

There’s nothing I need to prove on that subject, but conspiracies are essentially wild claims.

Which is exactly what you're claiming.

Prove Google intentionally hides your desired search results.

That’s not why. It’s because you have an urge to correct people who don’t see things the way you do.

You don't see things the way I or others do because you already set your mind that you perception is right & anything that can literally show otherwise is "false" information.

 

[Nielsen]

This is an outright lie.

I’d strongly recommend you fatten the entire sentence you refer to before you make such accusations. You may be too biased to have this debate with me.

Except when I literally post information that shows the age groups being affected are now flipping, but you conveniently call it propaganda as an excuse to ignore it.

You post stories we already heard repeatedly before the delta variant became a thing. I can justify not relying on them because I’ve seen statistics by age groups, and the long-term complications are hardly different to the generic health annoyances people have always dealt with. The only disturbing complication is loss of smell and taste, but not unheard of before this pandemic.

Which is exactly what you're claiming.

Not really.

Prove Google intentionally hides your desired search results.

Try searching for “covid vaccine necessary for younger people”. The results I’m getting link to BBC, CNN, NY Times, etc. trying to sell it. Not the most convincing sources for the answers I need. For example, where are the specialists at WHO to share some wisdom?

I get one result from my national health authority describing who should take the vaccine, but not why it’s more important now than ten years ago. 😑

You don't see things the way I or others do because you already set your mind that you perception is right & anything that can literally show otherwise is "false" information.

Anything that can show otherwise…Yes, that’s indeed the problem.