CRAP pCARS ClubPS4 

Do you prefer racing in CRAP pCARS with Penalties on or off?

  • Penalties On

    Votes: 57 75.0%

  • Penalties Off

    Votes: 19 25.0%
  • Total voters
    76
  • Poll closed .
HammyMansell
Spooky like i said before the car track combo Zolder/BMW TC encourages kerb hopping. In a Formula car or road car it wouldn't be impossible! Can we leave it there now please as the race will start in a moment. I don't know why you're so worked up about! A shame your not in the race to monitor us for kerb cutting! See you!
Click to expand...

I'm worked up about it because I joined a club for clean racers, sorry if you need to break the rules to enjoy the game.
 
Spooky Wooky
I'm worked up about it because I joined a club for clean racers, sorry if you need to break the rules to enjoy the game.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about Spooky? I haven't broken any rules...If you've got the hump because i'm just faster than you without cutting corners or cheating, just tell me, and i'll drive slower next time, or i could leave the CRAP group altogether, ok? Those chips on your shoulders don't suit you mate! ;) Ask the other guys i race against if i have broken the rules, have cheated, or drive badly.....
 
Last edited:
HammyMansell
What are you talking about Spooky? I haven't broken any rules...If you've got the hump because i'm just faster than you without cutting corners or cheating, just tell me, and i'll drive slower next time, ok? ;) Those chips on your shoulders don't suit you mate! ;) Ask the other guys i race against if i have broken the rules, have cheated, or drive badly.....
Click to expand...

4 wheels off the track is breaking the rules so don't flatter yourself.
 
knukken
we have to use stock cars in time trial? tried caper at Bathurst. Got a 2:12 but didn´t show on leaderboard :(
Click to expand...

You can tune the car in your garage and save the setup just for the track you want to do the time trial. Then that tune will be used whenever you load that track in race or time trial.

Spooky Wooky
@JohnScoonsBeard thread title says "saturday" 24th.
Click to expand...

Thanks. It would help if I could count, wasn't trying to copy and paste on my phone and if I actually looked at a calendar. It's now correct (I think).

Racing Etiquette

The C in CRAP doesn't stand for Clean (see original post in this thread) but it should.

As for how we race I will be posting an updated guide in a seperate post shortly.

Please pay attention to it as it's for the benefit of us all.

Here are a few words in advance though.

Above ALL else please keep discussions about driving standards civil. Any problems should initially be dealt with in as unconfrontational manner as possible. Do it like this.....

Talk about it verbally on track. Apology is a good start from both contact makers whether you think you're to blame or not. It can diffuse the situation immediately. E.g. "Sorry whoever that was."

If you see someone cutting the track whether penalties are on or not, kindly remind the member that in CRAP races we always respect the track limits. Part of 2 wheels, on a 4 wheel car ;) inside the track boundaries (normally white lines) at all times. Mistakes happen but repeated transgressions where time or a place is gained are not permitted. If you think you have gained a position by exceeding the track limits or because of a bump simply give it back.

If something needs further discussion then record the video and show each other. Keep it private unless you're instead owning up to a mistake that we can all learn from and you feel may benefit the group as a whole without pointing the finger at other individuals. If the issue still can't be resolved then message me and I'll deal with it.

We can never always be 100% sure about exactly where other cars are in relation to our own. Using mirrors and the look left/right button are essential tools for our members. However, be aware that you might not be seen or heard. Once again mistakes happen just like in real racing. Learning to be aware of who's around us is essential to everyone's enjoyment.

New members may not yet be fully aware of how we do things. In future we will have guidelines to help. Everyone new and old please read and absorb them. Stewards/hosts can remind newer members before racing.
 
Hopefully, above of all else, we can all continue to race together. Regardless of any disagreements lets treat each other like family. Respect and not drawing lines in the sand. Let's all keep it light and fun, that's what this is all about. Unfortunately, we aren't being payed to race, then we would be living our dreams!
 
These are here as a guide and reminder. They're not here to stop you enjoying yourselves.

Thanks
JSB


CRAP Commandments (Racing rules and Etiquette):

1. Deliberate and/or repetitive corner cutting is forbidden. Part of 2 wheels, on a 4 wheel car ;) should be inside the track boundaries (normally white lines). If you gain an advantage by exceeding the track limits simply give it back.

2. If you come off the track re-enter with care by looking to ensure the track is clear.

3. Rage quitting the lobby is prohibited. If you have to leave the race early, please inform the race steward about the reason.

4. Dangerous and reckless driving is prohibited. Mistakes happen but if you think you may have caused an accident allow the "victim" to regain their place ahead of you even if that means other drivers also pass you. Better to offer to give back a position in error and be told to carry on than to have the other driver feel silently aggreived.

5. When being lapped you may stay on the racing line but do not battle the overtaking cars. The driver of the overtaking car(s) is responsible for making the pass without incident. It's easier to see where you're going than where you've been. If it isn't then you're pointing the wrong way.

6. When on a straight you're allowed one change of direction before lining your car up for the next corner so no weaving to and fro to stop an overtake or avoid a competitor getting a draft/tow.

7. If the front of the car behind is level with the front door (or driver's head) of the car ahead going into a corner then adequate track space needs to be left for the car behind throughout the corner.

8. Be aware of your surroundings and other drivers. Use mirrors and look left/right to see your opponents. Treat them as you want to be treated (sado masochists need not apply)

9. Dive-bombing, ramming and breaching the pit blend line are prohibited.

10. Overtaking without incident is the main responsibility of the overtaking car as they have a better view of the other car.

10b. HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOURSELF :)
 
Last edited:
JohnScoonsBeard
These are here as a guide and reminder. They're not here to stop you enjoying yourselves.

Thanks
JSB


CRAP Commandments (Racing rules and Etiquette):

1. Deliberate and/or repetitive corner cutting is forbidden. Part of 2 wheels, on a 4 wheel car ;) should be inside the track boundaries (normally white lines). If you gain an advantage by exceeding the track limits simply give it back.

2. If you come off the track re-enter with care by looking to ensure the track is clear.

3. Rage quitting the lobby is prohibited. If you have to leave the race early, please inform the race steward about the reason.

4. Dangerous and reckless driving is prohibited. Mistakes happen but if you think you may have caused an accident allow the "victim" to regain their place ahead of you even if that means other drivers also pass you. Better to offer to give back a position in error and be told to carry on than to have the other driver feel silently aggreived.

5. When being lapped you may stay on the racing line but do not battle the overtaking cars. The driver of the overtaking car(s) is responsible for making the pass without incident. It's easier to see where you're going than where you've been. If it isn't then you're pointing the wrong way.

6. When on a straight you're allowed one change of direction before lining your car up for the next corner so no weaving to and fro to stop an overtake or avoid a competitor getting a draft/tow.

7. If the front of the car behind is level with the front door (or driver's head) of the car ahead going into a corner then adequate track space needs to be left for the car behind throughout the corner.

8. Be aware of your surroundings and other drivers. Use mirrors and look left/right to see your opponents. Treat them as you want to be treated (sado masochists need not apply)

9. Dive-bombing, ramming and breaching the pit blend line are prohibited.

10. Overtaking without incident is the main responsibility of the overtaking car as they have a better view of the other car.

10b. HAVE FUN AND ENJOY YOURSELF :)
Click to expand...


Agree totally @JohnScoonsBeard beard with what you have said, and now the rules have been outlined and clarified, we can all respect them as necessary.

However, as we have seen with the BMW race, and the replay video that i put up to show @Football67611 as he couldn't race with us, people have seen, and made comments that some of us have been 'cutting corners and kerbs' therefore 'cheating' at the chicanes at the Zolder race track in the beemers. When that race finished, acekiller15 (@ty2) and myself, who had been battling those first few laps together, congratulated each other on a great battle, because it was, and not in any moment did i think that acekiller15 had been cutting kerbs or gaining an advantage.

Now, to me, in a 'tin-top' an Zolder, albeit a Touring Car, and less so a GT3/4 car, and the majority of the road cars, it's quite normal to attack Zolder by using the kerbs to the maximum. I've watched GT, and WTCC races there over the years and the drivers always use the kerbs, some laps 2 wheels over the white lines, some laps 4, depending on how much they are pushing supposedly and/or if they are attempting an overtake. If we tried to drive the Formula A/B/C cars, or the LMP cars at Zolder like that we would lose control each lap for sure. Today, if we all had an online race in a Formula car at Zolder, i can be sure that we would have to drive the chicanes in a different way each lap, as to not end up being launched off the kerbs each time, like it would be in real life. Maybe WMD/SMS need to re-adjust the penalty system more at the chicanes at Zolder, who knows...........

Watch this YT video of a 'Legends Cars' race...You can see, because the cars are very robust, like a Touring car, that the drivers use all the kerbs, sometimes 2 wheels over, sometimes 4, particularly at the right/left/right chicane in the middle of the lap. (you can see the white line for a split second outside the side window of the car, therefore all 4 wheels are inside the line) There are other races at Zolder on YT showing the same thing too:



Also to me, what happened between me and @Kkj10 comes under rule 6, "When on a straight you're allowed one change of direction before lining your car up for the next corner so no weaving to and fro to stop an overtake or avoid a competitor getting a draft/tow". After providing video evidence to Kkj, he then realised that what he did was not correct, so apologised (We couldn't say sorry in the moment in the race as Kkj10 wasn't in a party or connected via chat) But the fact that in that moment i knew that what he did was not correct and too strong, and for that i wasn't going to say sorry, not in the moment, or after as i had done nothing wrong, just driving straight to attempt an overtake, Kkj made contact with me, more than we made contact with each other.

Lastly, i don't like to be accused of cheating by others, as to me, it comes across as sour grapes, and a bit childish. I'm not here to annoy anyone, or cheat, i'm here as you say @JohnScoonsBeard, to have fun, race people on a similar level to me, not all this unnecessary aggro. Racing games have always been my favourite types of games, i have played them since the mid 80's on the ZX Spectrum, Megadrive and all the Playstations, and without cheating or trying to gain an advantage.

In conclusion, to me, my way of driving, and that of others, around Zolder in the BMW TC is perfectly legal. Because it's the nature of the beast at that track in that car, it has the widest kerbs of any track in PCARS, and in a 'tip-top you have to use them accordingly, and agressively.

Anyway, i just wanted to put my opinions across in a contructive manner. Cheers! :)
 
HammyMansell
Agree totally @JohnScoonsBeard beard with what you have said, and now the rules have been outlined and clarified, we can all respect them as necessary.

However, as we have seen with the BMW race, and the replay video that i put up to show @Football67611 as he couldn't race with us, people have seen, and made comments that some of us have been 'cutting corners and kerbs' therefore 'cheating' at the chicanes at the Zolder race track in the beemers. When that race finished, acekiller15 (@ty2) and myself, who had been battling those first few laps together, congratulated each other on a great battle, because it was, and not in any moment did i think that acekiller15 had been cutting kerbs or gaining an advantage.

Now, to me, in a 'tin-top' an Zolder, albeit a Touring Car, and less so a GT3/4 car, and the majority of the road cars, it's quite normal to attack Zolder by using the kerbs to the maximum. I've watched GT, and WTCC races there over the years and the drivers always use the kerbs, some laps 2 wheels over the white lines, some laps 4, depending on how much they are pushing supposedly and/or if they are attempting an overtake. If we tried to drive the Formula A/B/C cars, or the LMP cars at Zolder like that we would lose control each lap for sure. Today, if we all had an online race in a Formula car at Zolder, i can be sure that we would have to drive the chicanes in a different way each lap, as to not end up being launched off the kerbs each time, like it would be in real life. Maybe WMD/SMS need to re-adjust the penalty system more at the chicanes at Zolder, who knows...........

Watch this YT video of a 'Legends Cars' race...You can see, because the cars are very robust, like a Touring car, that the drivers use all the kerbs, sometimes 2 wheels over, sometimes 4, particularly at the right/left/right chicane in the middle of the lap. (you can see the white line for a split second outside the side window of the car, therefore all 4 wheels are inside the line) There are other races at Zolder on YT showing the same thing too:



Also to me, what happened between me and @Kkj10 comes under rule 6, "When on a straight you're allowed one change of direction before lining your car up for the next corner so no weaving to and fro to stop an overtake or avoid a competitor getting a draft/tow". After providing video evidence to Kkj, he then realised that what he did was not correct, so apologised (We couldn't say sorry in the moment in the race as Kkj10 wasn't in a party or connected via chat) But the fact that in that moment i knew that what he did was not correct and too strong, and for that i wasn't going to say sorry, not in the moment, or after as i had done nothing wrong, just driving straight to attempt an overtake, Kkj made contact with me, more than we made contact with each other.

Lastly, i don't like to be accused of cheating by others, as to me, it comes across as sour grapes, and a bit childish. I'm not here to annoy anyone, or cheat, i'm here as you say @JohnScoonsBeard, to have fun, race people on a similar level to me, not all this unnecessary aggro. Racing games have always been my favourite types of games, i have played them since the mid 80's on the ZX Spectrum, Megadrive and all the Playstations, and without cheating or trying to gain an advantage.

In conclusion, to me, my way of driving, and that of others, around Zolder in the BMW TC is perfectly legal. Because it's the nature of the beast at that track in that car, it has the widest kerbs of any track in PCARS, and in a 'tip-top you have to use them accordingly, and agressively.

Anyway, i just wanted to put my opinions across in a contructive manner. Cheers! :)
Click to expand...


I know that happens and I completely understand where you're coming from. However, it's much easier to tell people a hard and fast rule that we can all see rather than for people to have to guess where the limit is until they invoke a penalty.

The rule exists in a similar fashion in most motorsport but in some classes, at some corners the stewards allow some degree of corner cutting. It's not normally formalised in the rules, it's just ignored sometimes. If we had a rule that allowed certain corners to be cut I'd be writing 100 CRAP Commandments rather than 10.

Motorsport fans get annoyed by it and the stewards sometimes change their limits. We should drive the same way for all tracks. It's a guide but I also don't want to get into penalising people.

There will always be mistakes where we cut corners in error. That's ok when it's not constant. People need to police their own driving. One rule makes it easy for everyone to know what is expected. Also SMS keep tweaking the track limits for racing so they know they haven't got them all spot on yet.

Sorry to drone on ;)
 
JohnScoonsBeard
I know that happens and I completely understand where you're coming from. However, it's much easier to tell people a hard and fast rule that we can all see rather than for people to have to guess where the limit is until they invoke a penalty.

The rule exists in a similar fashion in most motorsport but in some classes, at some corners the stewards allow some degree of corner cutting. It's not normally formalised in the rules, it's just ignored sometimes. If we had a rule that allowed certain corners to be cut I'd be writing 100 CRAP Commandments rather than 10.

Motorsport fans get annoyed by it and the stewards sometimes change their limits. We should drive the same way for all tracks. It's a guide but I also don't want to get into penalising people.

There will always be mistakes where we cut corners in error. That's ok when it's not constant. People need to police their own driving. One rule makes it easy for everyone to know what is expected. Also SMS keep tweaking the track limits for racing so they know they haven't got them all spot on yet.

Sorry to drone on ;)
Click to expand...

Sure mate, i get what you're saying totally and no, we're not 'droning on', we're talking about something necessary, important and ultimately productive.

But maybe we could have a bit of leniency at Zolder in the future as it's a bit of a grey area to me. The little posts on the kerbs define the limit too supposedly, but you have to put all 4 wheels over the white lines to reach them...An exception should be made for Zolder, as i can't think of another track where it's necessary to use the kerbs as much as at Zolder. ;)
 
Last edited:
HammyMansell
to me, what happened between me and @Kkj10 comes under rule 6, "When on a straight you're allowed one change of direction before lining your car up for the next corner so no weaving to and fro to stop an overtake or avoid a competitor getting a draft/tow". After providing video evidence to Kkj, he then realised that what he did was not correct, so apologised
Click to expand...

I don't remember changing direction more than once :confused:. From what I read of that rule your allowed to make a defensive move then if you wish move back onto the racing line (provided your opponent hasn't got along side). Perhaps @JohnScoonsBeard can clarify?

I apologised from a gentelmanly standpoint and because I thought I had gave you slightly more space than I did 👍. I don't believe what it did was against the rules.

Since the GT3 series is delayed I'll be hosting the postponed SNL tonight. Due to the short notice and the patch not arriving over the pond it's going to be more of a CRAP event than an SNL event so no need to sign up! :gtpflag:
 
Last edited:
Spooky Wooky
No, 4 wheels over the line = off the track

Every lap in your replay, someone is 4 wheels off, mostly you.
Click to expand...

Did you not read my post above @Spooky Wooky ?? Why do you keep on antagonising? I saw only this morning in the "patch 4.0 is released' thread -- https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/patch-4-0-is-released.334666/page-3 -- that you was trying to get at another member about nothing....You've got a bit of a persecution complex it seems, and take a comment about 'casual racers' as a personal thing, a bit pathetic really.

if you're not happy you could always race somewhere else you know? I understand the 4 wheels over the white line thing, but at Zolder it's quite difficult to not do it if you want to be fast and competitive, that's why you see them in the replay. Go on Youtube and search PCARs at Zolder and you will see most online racers do it in non open wheel cars. And now your saying that it's mostly me cutting corners? But yesterday you said we were all doing it more or less the same, Now your contradicting yourself mate! Even the car in 3rd place in the first few laps was cutting the kerbs a lot, which was Kkj10 btw! ;)

Kkj10
I don't remember changing direction more than once :confused:. From what I read of that rule your allowed to make a defensive move then if you wish move back onto the racing line (provided your opponent hasn't got along side). Perhaps @JohnScoonsBeard can clarify?

I apologised from a gentelmanly standpoint and because I thought I had gave you slightly more space than I did 👍. I don't believe what it did was against the rules.

Since the GT3 series is delayed I'll be hosting the postponed SNL tonight. Due to the short notice and the patch not arriving over the pond it's going to be more of a CRAP event than an SNL event so no need to sign up! :gtpflag:
Click to expand...

Yet again, watch the little clip i put up on this thread yesterday @Kkj10 , and you'll see yourself turn into me once, with my front wheel alongside you already, you then go staight, then turn slightly and veer into me a little more until i'm almost on the grass, forcing me to lift off and lose momentum. That's 2 movements, no? This to me was a much bigger deal than the kerb issue, as 1, it's not correct, and 2, i could've crashed. ;)
 
HammyMansell
Did you not read my post above @Spooky Wooky ?? Why do you keep on antagonising? I saw only this morning in the "patch 4.0 is released' thread -- https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/patch-4-0-is-released.334666/page-3 -- that you was trying to get at another member about nothing....You've got a bit of a persecution complex it seems, and take a comment about 'casual racers' as a personal thing, a bit pathetic really.

if you're not happy you could always race somewhere else you know? I understand the 4 wheels over the white line thing, but at Zolder it's quite difficult to not do it if you want to be fast and competitive, that's why you see them in the replay. Go on Youtube and search PCARs at Zolder and you will see most online racers do it in non open wheel cars. And now your saying that it's mostly me cutting corners? But yesterday you said we were all doing it more or less the same, Now your contradicting yourself mate! Even the car in 3rd place in the first few laps was cutting the kerbs a lot, which was Kkj10 btw! ;)
Click to expand...

:lol: Now you're making silly assumptions based on opinion, all my statements in this thread are based on fact alone. It's really not difficult to understand - 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad. It's really not that difficult to understand. It also shows great arrogance that the CEO of CRAP spells it out to you and you still dispute it.

*edit* this argument should have finished as soon as @JohnScoonsBeard posted the CRAP commandments, but you dragged it up again. Now let's leave it.
 
I think as the chasing car you can see more what's going on depending on the car in fronts driving cam
personal my self as a rule I back off if I can see that an incident could occur.
I have done plenty of wheel to wheel racing with @Kkj10 with out complaint.
Defently worth leaving on project cars as something quite minor has filled up this forum.
Hope we can leave this all behind now and just enjoy the racing.
See all you guys online soon for some super battles. :gtpflag::cheers:
 
Spooky Wooky
:lol: Now you're making silly assumptions based on opinion, all my statements in this thread are based on fact alone. It's really not difficult to understand - 2 wheels good, 4 wheels bad. It's really not that difficult to understand. It also shows great arrogance that the CEO of CRAP spells it out to you and you still dispute it.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing nothing, and you are correct the letter of the law about 2 or 4 wheels, yes your correct, i never said you were not correct. Just to race at Zolder, and Zolder only, in a tip top car fast, it's almost necessary to maximise the chicanes and kerbs...It seems you can't understand that mate, that's why in the replay, and online in general, you see it happen on this track. I personally don't 'cut corners' on any other track, just this one! Comprende?

admoo
I think as the chasing car you can see more what's going on depending on the car in fronts driving cam
personal my self as a rule I back off if I can see that an incident could occur.
I have done plenty of wheel to wheel racing with @Kkj10 with out complaint.
Defently worth leaving on project cars as something quite minor has filled up this forum.
Hope we can leave this all behind now and just enjoy the racing.
See all you guys online soon for some super battles. :gtpflag::cheers:
Click to expand...

Well i've had a few scrapes with @Kkj10 online in the last month, In the GT races we did on the Sunday, the last race at Spa, and he sent me a private message on PSN to say sorry so.........
 

Similar threads

JohnScoonsBeard
CRAP pCARS 2 Club
4 5 6
Replies
158
Views
12K
Eyeseeh50
Eyeseeh50
Cabelmania
Cabel Club (and more) Thread
2
Replies
49
Views
7K
Cabelmania
Cabelmania
wheelhp
Seattle grunge and beyond - Music thread
Replies
7
Views
2K
CotillionRope
CotillionRope
Stuart Hughes
WRC 9 club Xbox series x
Replies
0
Views
496
Stuart Hughes
Stuart Hughes
lunchbox147
GBRC "Grumpy British Racing Club" Home of clean racing.
4 5 6
Replies
167
Views
23K
Rickstar_UK
R

Latest Posts

Back